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The result was Userfy with no mainspace redirect — Caknuck 01:17, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rolf Killius[edit]

Rolf Killius (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Unable to find any real notability here. Most Google hits are credits or trivial references. Article created by Killius himself. Crazysuit 23:55, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was DeleteCaknuck 01:19, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Karma Air[edit]

Karma Air (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Procedural nom; I've just declined a ((db-web)) on this as it (vaguely) asserts notability, but as it stands it seems unsourced and very spammy & I can't see any way to clean it up to something valid. However, it's about as far from my area of expertise as it's possible to get — someone might be able to build something valid out of this. iridescent 23:42, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Keep - no consensus to delete. JodyB Roll, Tide, Roll 12:45, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Catholic High School Athletic Association[edit]

Catholic High School Athletic Association (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Besides the fact that this is just a list, and a lot of the links are to external sources and not even to articles on Wikipedia, we don't do articles on individual school leagues. Corvus cornix 23:28, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. Merge was not viable as there is nothing sourced in the article. GRBerry

Catholic High School Hockey League[edit]

Catholic High School Hockey League (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

We don't do articles on individual school leagues. Corvus cornix 23:26, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete per consensus of established editors. Also, several of the keep arguments are from the same user. --Coredesat 00:39, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Overturned to no consensus instead given the sources. --Coredesat 00:58, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

New relationship energy[edit]

New relationship energy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Article is about a Neologism, as evidenced by a Google Scholar search on the topic, which yields only four results using the actual term that was apparently coined on usenet. Only two of the four results are in peer-reviewed journals, neither of which give a definition. -- Craigtalbert 23:14, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment No one is claiming that the term is a hoax or anything like that, but WP:NEO specifically addresses situations where a term has recently been coined, generally does not appear in any dictionary, but may be used widely or within certain communities. Although the term may be widely used in the polyamory community, there aren't reliable sources documenting it's notability (newsgroups, mailing lists, forums, and the like, are generally not acceptable sources). You could make an argument for merging the NRE article with the polyamory article. -- Craigtalbert 05:57, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Sure, newsgroups and mailing lists are not acceptable sources, but aren't FAQ documents considered acceptable sources? Plus as described in the article, it is documented in the book "The Ethical Slut" which is one of the most popular reference books for polyamory.Musqrat 17:33, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Response Have a look at WP:V, WP:RS, WP:N, WP:OR and WP:NEO. FAQs are generally not reliable sources. The Ethical Slut is a published book, and may use the term "new relationship energy," but that doesn't make the term notable for it's own article. Again, it may be worth mentioning in the polyamory article, or the The Ethical Slut article, but I don't see any information that justifies it's notability for it's own article. -- Craigtalbert 19:17, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Two more published books that use the term are "Pagan Polyamory" by Raven Kaldera pg 49, and "Polyamory: Roadmaps for the Clueless and Hopeful" by Anthony Ravenscroft pg 196ff (where it forms a subchapter). Any standard of "notability" is necessarily subjective of course, but this article is above the Wikipedia median in terms of published sources to establish meaning and notability, without OR. 23:29, 28 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.106.26.161 (talk)
Switch toKeep per google scholar listings. Cheers, :) Dlohcierekim 14:25, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wolfe, L.P. (2003) "Jealousy and transformation in polyamorous relationships", doctoral dissertation, Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality, San Francisco
  • Sheff, E. (2004) "Gender, family, and sexuality", doctoral dissertation, University of Colorado, Boulder
  • Keener, M.C. (2004) "A Phenomenology of polyamerous persons", master's thesis, University of Utah, Salt Lake City
  • Cook, E. (2005) "Commitment in Polyamorous Relationships", master's thesis, Regis University, Denver

I suspect some research (going beyond just Googling!) can find several more academic references. The article is clearly not OR, though like a few other articles it might be improved with some more citations over time. The term is (from the published sources) about 20 years old, from before the internet became popular, though its usage only became widespread 15 years ago, so it's not as recent a neologism as Polyamory or many other terms retained on Wikipedia. The above references to popularity in FAQs, web sites, and discussion groups is not relevant as reliable sources for defining the term, but they are relevant to whether the term is "notable" within the culture. Zeph99 23:13, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Google Scholar (not Google's web search) is a pretty good indication of the amount of scholarly research on a given subject -- not perfect, but pretty good. It includes most repositories of academic journals as well as results from their book search. Using similar search engines, say Live Search Academic (returns no results). Now if you're a good researcher, and you can find plenty of reliable sources on the subject then it should be easy to write the article using them. I was planning on doing it, but was at a loss for scholarly research on the topic. You can go down the List of academic journal search engines and if you fare any better, then Mazal Tov! Have at it! Through my university, I have access to Adding a Co-Wife. The article doesn't include a scholarly treatment of the term, in fact the entire article is completely anecdotal. Here's the context it's used in, in that article:
To me, Don and Angela's relationship was filled with hot, passionate, incredibly intense "new relationship energy." My older, more settled relationship with Don was filled with daily squabbles, deeper power struggles, and underhanded (but really funny) jokes.
I don't have access to Therapy with Clients Who Are Bisexual and Polyamorous, but from the snippet Google Scholar returns and the abstract, it doesn't look promising. -- Craigtalbert 00:21, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Update there is a copy of Therapy with Clients Who Are Bisexual and Polyamorous on the authors website [1], the term is used twice but not defined/described. It's also worth noting that while the master's thesis Jealousy and Transformation in Polyamorous Relationships cites a source for it's description of NRE (Stewart, 2002) the thesis is suspiciously missing a bibliography or list of references. My guess is that "Stewart, 2002" is an internet source. -- Craigtalbert 21:09, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The various sources cited here fall mostly into three categories and one exception. A couple treat the subject in some detail, consistent with the usage described in this article, and may provide the main sources if the article is kept. Several others define the term more briefly, also consistent with this article. Some of these might be worked into citations, if they go on to make observations once it's defined (the counseling ones sound interesting). A third group (including the above) use the term or its acronym in ways quite consistent with this article, but without offering any definition to the reader. (The exception is only a single reference which seems to get "NRE" wrong; written by a non-polyamorist, it recognizes NRE as a common term among polyamorists, but then speculates (incorrectly) about the phrase intended by the acronym, without actually asserting any knowledge of the matter.) Since a major question regarding this article is whether it should still be classified as a Neologism as relevant to the Wikipedia guidelines, the third category (used but not defined in the reference) is of interest, even though not useful for citation to establish meaning. The Neologism guideline, which is to be applied with common sense, gives the purpose or reason for avoidance of typical recent neologisms as: "because they are not well understood, are not clearly definable, and will have different meanings to different people". This term is not very recent, is clearly definable, all sources that assert knowledge of the meaning are consistent, some go into detail, all non-speculative usages are consistent, and several print authors no longer even feel it's unfamiliar or ambiguous enough to require definition for their readers (all according to the references available to us and listed elsewhere here). That should address the concerns behind the Neologism guideline, and also serve as some evidence of notability.Memesrus 01:58, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I am new at participating here, so if this is not the correct format I apologize in advance. The term is an important term in polyamory. I also agree that not everything needs its own article. Perhaps this article could be merged into the polyamory article? lfelia —Preceding comment was added at 17:01, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Exploring that option, terminology has already been spun off from polyamory to its own article. Should the article in question here, as well as compersion perhaps, be merged into the terminology within polyamory article? Or is that article just waiting to be proposed for deletion as well? As others have noted, conceptually new relationship energy and compersion are applicable to all sorts of relationships, but their usage may be widespread mainly within the polyamorous community. Note that within computer technology, Wikipedia has a great number of neologisms (Design pattern, Representational State Transfer, ad nauseum; anyone want to guess how many we could find in 20 minutes?) which are applicable to, used within, and of possible interest to only computer developers; which are often too new and perhaps transient to be in many general dictionaries; and yet which are in their own articles rather than being collected only in "terminology of web services" or "terminology of computer software development" compendium articles. Perhaps polyamory, being a cultural rather than technical phenomenon, should be more restrictive, and should collect common terminology in a single article. Funxion) 00:16, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Response this is a WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS argumet, e.g. "The nature of Wikipedia means that you cannot make a convincing argument [against deletion] based on what other articles do or do not exist; because there is nothing stopping anyone from creating any article." -- Craigtalbert 04:59, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Response Then I suggest that we recommend all the above mentioned articles for deletion as well and see what the response is. The argument isn't that they exist. The argument is that no attempt to delete them would have any hope of succeeding. This is indicative of a certain interesting editorial bias on the part of the Wikipedia community as a whole that deserves some study on its own. But I don't think that furthering that bias by deleting this article because it is a neologism largely (but not completely) specific to a certain subculture is a good idea. If, OTOH, you were to go and put deletion recommendations on the other indicated articles I might take your argument a bit more seriously. Omnifarious 18:11, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment book search (as referenced by Craigtalbert above) actually brings up 5 additional published book references under the spelled out subject of this article, and an additional 2 when searched for "NRE polyamory" (after eliminating false hits and duplicates). That brings the references in published books cited here to 10. While almost all references are consistent with the description given in the article, one book reference recognizes the popularity of "NRE" in polyamorous culture, but assumes that polyamorists must mean "Non-recoverable engineering" and launches into a spurious editorial on people who weigh their relationships in cost/benefit engineering terms. Alas, that book was apparently written by a non-polyamorist, before this article was entered on Wikipedia (along with the link from disambiguating NRE).
Searching Amazon.com brings up three additional true hits, bringing the total to 13 published books. If it isn't killed, this article is ripe for expansion and better citation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Memesrus (talk • contribs) 16:08, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment For articles on scientific topics (since NRE is in scientific categories, this applies) "sources for the theory itself are [requited to be in] reputable textbooks or peer-reviewed journals. Scientific theories promulgated outside these media are not properly verifiable as scientific theories and should not be represented as such." This according to the ArbComm ruling. In other words, many of the results for NRE from google book search (results from which are only included in google scholar if they meet scholarly requirements) such as The Complete Idiot's Guide to Tantric Sex are not reliable sources for this topic. -- Craigtalbert 19:11, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Response Excellent point, Craigtalbert; I believe that you have identified the issue. You are explicitly evaluating this article in terms of whether it has been "properly verified as a scientific theory" and thus understandably accepting as relevant only peer reviewed scientific sources. Others apparently understand this article as primarily a description of well documented culture usage, even if scientific (psychological and sociological) use of the term is also beginning to appear. Were the "psychology" category not attached, your quotes above would make no sense. I agree that this article is not a verifiable scientific theory, nor yet even a well established term within science; if having the psychology category attached is misleading, it should be removed, at least until and unless enough solid scientific references accumulate in the future. Perhaps just the non-scientific category Interpersonal_Relationships, already applied, is more appropriate. (Neither Craigtalbert nor anyone else is demanding that, say, Cuddle party or most of the other articles within that non-scientific category must have more than 2 peer reviewed references or face deletion). A reference in a popular book on Tantra is not only irrelevant to verifying a scientific theory, it's downright discrediting and almost scandalous in pristine academia -- which explains the otherwise seemingly gratuitous and selective highlighting of a few juicy sources. However, such a mainstream "idiot's guide" series book actually is relevant to documenting cultural usage and notability therein. This also explains the different treatment here versus hundreds of very recent technological or cultural (but not scientific) neologisms that remain unquestioned on Wikipedia; nobody mistakes a neologism like Representational State Transfer or EURion to be a scientific theory, so such terms understandably face less scrutiny of the sort suggested here. My pondering above was seeking understanding of the blatently different standards being routinely applied to a great many articles, definitely not a suggestion that a few bad other articles justifies keeping this one! I actually didn't want to weigh in one way or the other until that discrepancy was addressed. Your clarification about science vs non-science categories finally makes the issue clear enough for me to "vote" on (below). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Funxion (talk • contribs) 02:13, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 08:00, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Felipe de Jesús Estévez[edit]

Felipe de Jesús Estévez (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Being a bishop is not inherently notable. If he had done something notable on his own, then I could see keeping this. Corvus cornix 23:14, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep: Surely bishops (of major denominations) are more notable than most university professors, if only because there are far fewer of them? And profs seem to be getting kept or no consensus; see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mizuko Ito Moyabrit 00:04, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No, profs are not getting kept unless they meet WP:PROF, and WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS is not a valid argument, anyway. And where do you draw the line? Monsignors? Parish priests? There are fewer of those, too. Corvus cornix 01:36, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Bishops usally "rule" over 20 or more parishs, so obviosly a Bishop cannot be compared to a parish priest and the term Monsignor does not confir any juristiction over any other priest or pasish.Callelinea 20:13, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Stifle, could we keep the discussion on this topic. The consensus is that both that Roman Catholic Bishops are inherently notable and that this particular bishop is notable based on the abundance of references on him. Callelinea 19:32, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The vote made here still fails to address notability of this individual and this article in any fashion, let alone address the multiple reliable and verifiable sources that have been provided to establish notability. The most disturbing aspect is that this is an admin who believes that "not www.catholic-hierarchy.org" is a valid excuse for deletion. How do you delete an admin? Alansohn 19:39, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for keeping the discussion open on these three bishops, even though all three will probably be kept. I also feel that there should be a written guideline on this also. There is no need for Roman Catholic Bishops being brought up over and over again for AfDs, when the end result will be the same. It would save alot of time and effort if a guideline was in place.Callelinea 20:38, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And? Does it matter how many cities there are in the world? I'm sure there might be close to or more than half a million, but all cities are notable. Auxiliary Bishops are only assigned to dioceses (or archdioceses) that have a large Catholic population or a large area.. Where they do not "rule" the diocese they may be given any duties that the Archbishop may assign them. In many cases they control monies or education programs or even day to day affairs of the archdioces. About 30-75% of auxiliary bishops get "promoted" to "rule" their own diocese. They are notable and if someone is willing to put the effort in writting an article Then they deserve one. And for those of you that say that Archbishops are more important then Bishops they are mistaken.. Archbishops rule a larger area or have a larger populations then bishops.. Both are equal in power. Callelinea 03:47, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I clarified the stats quoted above, which alleged there were 2946 bishops. That's diocesan bishops, not other bishops. I am also stating that I do not find auxiliary bishops per se notable enough for their own articles, though they should be mentioned in the article on the diocese. Gimmetrow 04:17, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 08:01, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

René Henry Gracida[edit]

René Henry Gracida (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Being a bishop is not inherently notable. If he had done something notable on his own, then I could see keeping this. Corvus cornix 23:11, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

To have a good article is fine, but in this case the articles mentioned in the reference section ( Washington Post, The Miami Herald, Houston Cronicle, Dallas Morning News, etc.)is to show that this individual is notable, which is the reason why this article was nominated. This person is Very notable.Callelinea 14:19, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The references don't reflect anything in the article. If there is notability in the newspaper articles, it isn't being shown in the encylcopedia article. Corvus cornix 16:35, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Your reason for geting rid of this article is what? That Roman Catholic Bishops are not notable or that this particular bishop is not notable? This is a great source of references and is where I got many of my references on this bishop.. http://nl.newsbank.com/ I wrote this article as a stub of an article to get the bare bone facts in, not to be a perfect well written article. I provided the references for those who believe that this particular bishop is notable, even though my opinion is that all Roman Catholic Bishops are notable.Callelinea 20:24, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for keeping the discussion open on these three bishops, even though all three will probably be kept. I also feel that there should be a written guideline on this also. There is no need for Roman Catholic Bishops being brought up over and over again for AfDs, when the end result will be the same. It would save alot of time and effort if a guideline was in place. Callelinea 20:39, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete as a hoax. No real need for AFD on obvious stuff like this. Friday (talk) 00:38, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Clog Brasnoc[edit]

Clog Brasnoc (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

It's a silly hoax. Though I hear that since their listing on Wikipedia, the number of Shpigs has tripled... Moyabrit 23:09, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Probably the photo should be deleted too, but I don't know how. Does it need a separate nomination on here? Moyabrit 23:36, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 08:01, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

John Joseph Nevins[edit]

John Joseph Nevins (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Being a bishop is not inherently notable. If he has done something on his own to be notable, then I could see keeping this. Corvus cornix 23:10, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is a great source of references and is where I got many of my references on this bishop.. http://nl.newsbank.com/ Callelinea 20:19, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for keeping the discussion open on these three bishops, even though all three will probably be kept. I also feel that there should be a written guideline on this also. There is no need for Roman Catholic Bishops being brought up over and over again for AfDs, when the end result will be the same. It would save alot of time and effort if a guideline was in place.Callelinea 20:37, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It seemed a no brainer to me. Then I saw there were three of these and that Stifle had voted delete! So I realised it should run the course. I did not know that Bishop articles were coming up for deletion. It does not make sense to me that they are not notable, as I explain above. If the outcomes are consistent on these, we could mention it at Outcomes. Cheers, :) Dlohcierekim 21:19, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And? Does it matter how many cities there are in the world? I'm sure there might be close to or more than half a million, but all cities are notable. Auxiliary Bishops are only assigned to dioceses (or archdioceses) that have a large Catholic population or a large area.. Where they do not "rule" the diocese they may be given any duties that the Archbishop may assign them. In many cases they control monies or education programs or even day to day affairs of the archdioces. About 30-75% of auxiliary bishops get "promoted" to "rule" their own diocese. They are notable and if someone is willing to put the effort in writting an article Then they deserve one. And for those of you that say that Archbishops are more important then Bishops they are mistaken.. Archbishops rule a larger area or have a larger populations then bishops.. Both are equal in power. Callelinea 03:48, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Delete. Hut 8.5 07:37, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

BugnuX[edit]

BugnuX (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

User:Pedro declined db-spam, but suggested to AFD Chealer 21:55, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. The possible merge target was deleted by AFD, making merge non-viable. GRBerry 14:26, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Meekil[edit]

Meekil (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Character from non-notable fantasy trilogy. See alsoWikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Frenalose Galaxy Collection Kim Dent-Brown (Talk to me) 21:53, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reply. As the article has not had other editors contributing content (aside from administrative edits), you can make a request to delete the article by adding the tag ((db-author)) to the top of the article. This requests a speedy deletion. -- Whpq 18:44, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete. Hut 8.5 07:39, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Frenalose Galaxy Collection[edit]

The Frenalose Galaxy Collection (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable trilogy published by vanity publisher. No GHits for reviews from reputable sources. Kim Dent-Brown (Talk to me) 21:44, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Factual and verifiable perhaps, but sadly not notable. The policy on vanity publishing says: "...it should be especially noted that self-publication and/or publication by a vanity press is indicative, but not determinative of non-notability....By the same token, it should always weigh against an article's inclusion if the author or other interested party is the creator of the Wikipedia article." Kim Dent-Brown (Talk to me) 18:24, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep. There is a good case for merge here, but consensus for such a move should be sought through the usual discussions. Since there are reliable sources for the term (NSW Police and the Sydney Morning Herald), there really isn't any case for deletion at all. At least it should be a redirect. --Tony Sidaway 00:15, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Security Industry Registry[edit]

Security Industry Registry (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

unsourced article about a police squad. Each squad of police that focus on a particular set of crimes - or here - just a few statutes are not notable. Are we going to have New York Police Department's missing person task force, California Highway Patrol's seatbelt enforcement squad, Texas Rangers' homicide division and 10's of thousands of others getting articles? No. Put this info in the police force's article and redirect perhaps, otherwise delete. Carlossuarez46 21:34, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedy delete per CSD:A7. Stifle (talk) 10:52, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Four IV[edit]

Four IV (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Fails notability criteria, sounds like an advertisement Pilotbob 21:33, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. Hut 8.5 07:40, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Free of Style[edit]

Free of Style (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable event that gets four Google hits, none of them in independent media. Originally written as an advertisement, I pared it back to the basic facts. Acroterion (talk) 21:32, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep. This is an exceptionally poorly written article on a controversial subject, but the source material is there and we don't delete articles if it's possible to write a good encyclopedia article on the subject. Let's be patient with this subject. --Tony Sidaway 00:25, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ashkenazi intelligence[edit]

Ashkenazi intelligence (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Per request, this AfD is split off from Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Race and intelligence (history). See reasoning for deletion there. I was not the original nominator, but I split this off per request. All comments below were specific for this article and have been moved from the original page. --Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 21:28, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

One more? Ashkenazi intelligence

I'm adding this article as well, since I missed it in the first pass, and everything I said in my rationale for the others applies to this as well. – ornis 13:54, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Futurebird has just pointed out on my talk page that the above article survived a previous AfD. Nonetheless it was closed as "no consensus" and I think this really should be merged with the others. – ornis 15:08, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comments (moved)

Comment: This article is just as problematic as the other, and for the same reasons.--Ramdrake 16:22, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
SEE: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Relisting Ashkenazi intelligence as a separate vote: "I think that pages should only be grouped together on XfD if all the following criteria are met: (1) There is a single place to discuss all the pages. (2) It is unlikely that any user will have diferent opinions about the pages. (3) They were all listed within an hour of when the discussion page was created. As the third criteria clearly wasn't met, I think that lumping it in here was the wrong thing to do. Od Mishehu 08:47, 25 October 2007 (UTC)" Thank you, IZAK 19:02, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There is an article on Aryan intelligence (Nazi eugenics). A topic is not deleted just because it offends someone. If it is notable with reliable sources it should be included. If you think the title is biased, they you should suggest renaming. Jon513 19:23, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
How about Zionist Eugenics? Seriously though, if I knew the English word for Rassenwahn, I would much rather use it than Ashkenazi intelligence. A good, netural compromise might be Claims of Ashkenazi intelligence. However, I recommend a merge. pedro gonnet - talk - 30.10.2007 08:34

Sadly, Jon513 either misses or ignores the central point. There is NO article called Aryan intelligence and that is very much the point. Claims by one group or another (or a non-scientist and panderer like Charles Murray) that one group or another is superior to another is always suspect, and without foundation. This article cites Murray who is an authority on nothing but his ideologically based opinion pushing.Skywriter 21:46, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I know that there is no article call "aryan intelligence", but there is an article on the topic of nazi claims about aryan intelligence. If you want to rename this article into "studies on claims of Ashkenazi intelligence" or something like that I wouldn't really care. But you want to delete the whole article because you think that "one group or another is superior to another is always suspect, and without foundation". And while I agree with your POV - it is only one POV. If there is notable studies on the subject, even studies that you disagree with, it warrants an article. Jon513 10:44, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There should be no further votes on Ashkenazi intelligence as it must be a separate vote according to the criteria noted by Od Mishehu (it was not listed correctly). IZAK is correct that there needs to be a distinct vote, away from this mess. A Sniper —Preceding comment was added at 20:30, 25 October 2007 (UTC) [reply]

Keep per above. Well sourced, useful, and valid research. Modernist 21:50, 27 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete--JForget 01:28, 27 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bellal Amerkhail[edit]

Bellal Amerkhail (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This was deleted via WP:PROD with the concern being that the article is a hoax. I am inclined to agree, there are no decent hits on google and as the prod nominator noted, no such player currently plays for Freiburg or has ever played for DC United. Hiding Talk 21:24, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. Hut 8.5 07:41, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Goldshield[edit]

Goldshield (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

An article originally written in very promotional terms, since improved, but notability concerns have never been addressed. No third-party references. Acroterion (talk) 21:24, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Delete. Hut 8.5 07:43, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Livingston & District Dolphins[edit]

Livingston & District Dolphins (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Local swim club, fails notability guideline Pilotbob 21:15, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep. Article has been improved and nom also appears to be withdrawn.Kubigula (talk) 03:16, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Eastern Hills High School[edit]

Eastern Hills High School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Does not assert notability, though I am lenient on high schools. What pushed me to AfD it is that it is written like a directory, and ends up holding no encyclopedic value as a result. Wizardman 21:16, 25 October 2007 (UTC) Looks better now. Wizardman 18:59, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alansohn 20:10, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • CommentI'm sorry but I have to disagree. Consider the following hypothetical news item: "Grand auto thievery red-lighted: The thief that had stolen Random Schmuck's car, who had bought it secondhand from Someguy X was apprehended by the police..." Would that be ground for an article about Someguy X? It wouldn't be even if he was the car thief. Replace Someguy X with Someschool X and that the kind of "news coverage establishing notability" you find in this article. --victor falk 19:28, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • You are more than welcome to disagree, but this certainly meets our notability guidelines. RFerreira 19:45, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There must be something I've missed then; why hasn't every person that's ever been mentioned in a couple of news story its own article?--victor falk 22:38, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was speedy delete as vandalism. Sandahl 21:26, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Monkey face[edit]

Monkey face (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
I think this is a valid encyclopedia topic where we have rusty trombone and dirty sanchez.MarstonB68 21:09, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Speedy delete g11, advertising. NawlinWiki 20:53, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Russian Classical Dance Education at The Ekaterina Dance Studio[edit]

Russian Classical Dance Education at The Ekaterina Dance Studio (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non notable dance studio. Fails the notability policy and does not cite reliable sources. STORMTRACKER 94 20:50, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was dewiite. krimpet 00:44, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comparison of Wii games[edit]

Comparison of Wii games (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This is trivial information that only a select few people care about. I also believe it falls under game guide material, as it explains many features for the games. This exists on the gamer wiki already, which is the suitable place for an article like this. RobJ1981 20:44, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete due to lack of demonstrated real-world notability and reliable secondary sources. MaxSem 19:00, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of Guild Wars characters[edit]

List of Guild Wars characters (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

From the views of a non-reader, a list of unnotable characters from a game has little to no relevence to the real world, failing notability.

Also, out of the only four sources on the page, three of them came from the same source (ArenaNet). The last one as far as I know is even more irrelevant, being about the music of the game.

Basically, this is gamecruft, something Wikipedia is not. IAmSasori 20:11, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please see the story/plot sections of Guild Wars Prophecies, Guild Wars Factions, Guild Wars Nightfall and Guild Wars Eye of the North. Unlike other MMORPG Guild Wars does have an overall plot which drives the content of each of the games, as such your comment is not valid. Prior to the edits performed by Eric each story section linked into the page currently up for deletion. --Aspectacle 01:29, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Those three pages indeed describe a plot in great detail. However, I have to note the following:
  • The three plots seem distinct, with few or no recurring characters. Also, due to the nature of the game, I would compare these plots with quests in a regular RPG.
  • The main page, Guild Wars, describes no plot. I believe that the space provided by that page to describe plot and story is sufficient space to describe any important characters.
User:Krator (t c) 08:55, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The Guild Wars article refers to the game series, the individual campaign articles refer to the actual games, with each campaign having a storyline involving 1-2 dozen central "missions" and hundreds of "quests" each - the comparison to other RPG's quests is not valid. The article in AfD lists the central characters that do appear in all campaigns, as well as key characters of each campaigns, some of whom also play a role in multiple campaigns. While these could be merged into the overview article and/or the individual campaign articles, I feel the central article allows for better consistency and easier cross-referencing - although I do feel that the article in AfD needs considerable clean-up to eliminate the in-universe writing style that still remains. --- Barek (talkcontribs) - 16:25, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
"The comparison to other RPG's quests is not valid." - As this was one of the central points in my argument, I ask you - why? I do not see how individual characters in quests in individual Guild Wars expansions are more notable or worthy of mention than, for example, Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark. User:Krator (t c) 21:04, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This article also makes no attempt to pass WP:Plot. A well written properly sourced articlke that passes WP:Plot will almost always pass all other tests. Ridernyc 13:28, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think that deletion because it doesn't conform to style is a weak argument - if article is allowed to exist it should be allowed to continue if it might be able to be bought up to the standards governed by the wiki. All pages in the wiki at some point start out not conforming to some standard or other. There are other lists of video game characters which are allowed to continue on this wiki which, to me, have about as much notability as the guild wars one but just have more referencing(Characters of Final Fantasy VIII or Characters in the Halo series).
My concession to this is that I'm not sure that any of the editors around at the moment which regularly edit the Guild Wars articles are willing to wade through the manuals and game quotes necessary to flesh out the article to meet the standard. --Aspectacle 22:04, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Delete. Hut 8.5 07:44, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of Warcraft races[edit]

List of Warcraft races (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

A plain mess of unnotable material.

This article also appeared to have an entire year to gather sources but failed to attain even one, making it lean more towards original research.

As mentioned before, this page have failed notability, as anyone that does not play the Warcraft games would be interested in reading this article.

This is pretty much gamecruft for the Warcraft series. IAmSasori 20:18, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Kill with fire. --Luigi30 (Taλk) 12:35, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of Warcraft miscellaneous races[edit]

List of Warcraft miscellaneous races (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Completely unnotable; even more unnotable than List of Warcraft races.

Wikipedia is not a game guide. People who do not play the Warcraft series will have no interest in these lists.

Along with that, it is not cited at all. It has failed notability and can easily be deemed as gamecruft. IAmSasori 20:23, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Delete, per WP:NOT. End of story. Stifle (talk) 11:08, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Devine Intervention (spell)[edit]

Devine Intervention (spell) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

While this was proposed for merge with the World of Warcraft article, it just seems to contain too much gamecruft to make it into the main article.

The article speaks in the 2nd person amongst opinionation, failing point of view easily.

Finally, it is not notable. There are no sources on this article, and it is probably better to delete rather than merge cruft into the main article. IAmSasori 20:28, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The title isn't even spelled correctly. It's Divine. Haha.81.158.211.115 21:53, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was No consensus — I can't close a discussion as "weak delete", but I would note that this totally fails notability guidelines. The most compelling argument on the "Keep" side is the assertion that it can be cleaned up. I would strongly suggest that users work on this aspect, and pronto, because articles cannot persist indefinitely on such a basis. In addition arguments like "gamecruft", "lots of things link to this" and "but this article is the same as it too" are not compelling, and add nothing. Clean it up, or I reckon the next discussion will be a delete. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haemo (talkcontribs) 01:08, 4 November 2007

List of Warcraft characters[edit]

List of Warcraft characters (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

While the reference template have been recently added, it still appears as if it is cruft. Even if the template has been placed recently, it has still failed notability, as only players and readers of the series would be interested.

While the books do exist in hard copy, there are no references to justify keeping the article for it.

Seeing as how the article is very large in the first place also (127 KB) and its contents, it can be assumed that it is not notable to the real world. IAmSasori 20:34, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I found this Generally speaking, the perception that an article is fancruft can be a contributing factor in its nomination and deletion, but it is not the actual reason for deletion. Rather, the term fancruft is a shorthand for content which one or more editors consider unencyclopedic, possibly to the extent of violating policies on verifiability, neutrality or original research.
Here. Based on this, it is not suitable as an actual reason for it's deletion. And those other 3 reasons we could fix, verifiability, neutraility or original research can be fixed with some work. businessman332211 21:37, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
WP:Fiction is a guideline not a policy, I also feel that it is a flawed guideline that contradicts WP:Plot. Ridernyc 14:00, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
also just noticed that the article fails the scetion you cited. This article fails to maintain encyclopedic standards. There is no real world context to this at all.Ridernyc 16:37, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This might be true, but we could easily rewrite it in less than an hour to make it up to standards. businessman332211 21:23, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
a random check of the links to this article shows that we have hundreds of Warcraft articles that should be up for deletion for the same reasons as this article. Ridernyc 00:30, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I just checked some of the policies. Wikipedia:Deletion_policy and if you look here carefully. It tells you that deletion should be a last result. There other things we can pursue on this article before the deletion process takes place. Some of the valid things (based on the deletion policy) are cleanup, expert, npov, verify or merge tags. We could easily just add in cleanup, and veify tags. This will get it in the request lists to start the cleanup and verify progress. businessman332211 21:29, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The Final Fantasy list you link to is a perfect example of why this list needs to go, it is a well written article full of real world context. This has none of that. Ridernyc 11:37, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
"Not up to FA standards" is hardly grounds for deletion. The fact that the FF8 article is featured means that it's possible for character articles such as this to be made encyclopedic. Thus, no need to delete. Powers T 12:41, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Who said it needs to be up to FA standards. it' needs to meet basic requirements like WP:Plot, not sure why everyone thinks they can just ignore that. Ridernyc 12:45, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
From WP:Plot "Plot summaries. Wikipedia articles on published works (such as fictional stories) should cover their real-world context and sourced analysis, offering detail on a work's development, impact or historical significance, not solely a detailed summary of that work's plot. This applies both to stand-alone works, and also to series. A brief plot summary may sometimes be appropriate as an aspect of a larger topic. (See also: Wikipedia:Television episodes, Wikipedia:Manual of Style (writing about fiction), Wikipedia:WikiProject Films/Style guidelines#Plot)." It's needs to have real word context, you can not just write a plot summary about characters. Show me anywhere in this article that covers "sourced analysis, offering detail on a work's development, impact or historical significance." Ridernyc 13:36, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You were holding up the FF8 article as an reason to delete this one. The fact that one article is a FA and another is not is not a reason to delete the latter; it's a reason to improve it to the former's status. Powers T 14:39, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Because the information is going to be recreated Is reason to keep articles? Second single crufty articles do not combine to make one large non-crufty article. We still have an article that falls short of policy. Ridernyc 22:09, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Just like the Pokemon lists. Or are they still an 'exception' to the notability rule?--Nydas(Talk) 08:15, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
can you move on from the WP:OTHERSTUFF argument, yes you can point to 1000's of pages on wikipedia that should not be here we are not talking about them we are talking about this one.Ridernyc 14:16, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No, I won't. WP:OTHERSTUFF is just an aid to help people hold contradictory, biased views on what is notable and what isn't. They can target rival fancruft whilst dodging questions about their fancruft.--Nydas(Talk) 21:12, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hi! You're talking to the person who championed merging the Pokemon character lists, then trimming the lamest ones, and continues to push for further refining of such lists. Also, I've been pushing for the Pokemon species to be merged into lists and dealt with in the most reasonable, concise, and encyclopedic manner possible. If you're looking for hypocrisy, you've got the wrong person.
Basically, this sucks. This is far beyond "List of Pokemon species" into "List of each NPC in the towns of Pokemon Red." At least a Pokemon species appears in at least a half-dozen games; Aku'mai is one of several dozen monsters that use the same design, isn't remarkable in a story or game design or any other fashion, and has no dialogue or story or anything. Baron Rivendare is the same, except he has three lines. This is typical to the content of this list.
The vast, vast majority of this info isn't lending useful context to any article. I don't need to know who Aku'mai is to understand what WOW is, to understand Warcraft's setting or story or game design. Hell, I don't even need to know anything about Aku'mai if I'm running Blackfathom Deeps.
This list is unworkably broad, and would not be a useful tool in writing narrower topical lists. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 08:37, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Ignore the single-appearace characters. There plenty of characters in this list which have appeared in multiple media, similar to an average Pokemon. And we have twenty-five Pokemon lists, sourced almost entirely from in-game text fragments. It is certain that similar giddy heights of encyclopedic worth could be achieved for this list.--Nydas(Talk) 09:47, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
answer, maybe. See WP:OTHERSTUFF. Ridernyc 19:48, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Bringing up other similar articles that exist is not always an "Other stuff exists" argument. Sometimes it's an appeal to precedent. Powers T 13:34, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
an appeal to precedent would be "article X survived AFD and this is why". Ridernyc 15:41, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Kill with more fire. --Luigi30 (Taλk) 12:35, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of Warcraft locations[edit]

List of Warcraft locations (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Wnsourced, unnotable gamecruft.

Going over each, this page only has one source, one that isn't considered in the real world.

The article has little to no interest to non-players, as it is unnotable to them.

Finally, it appears to be cruft as it is very descriptive about an in-game location. IAmSasori 20:41, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

...You are aware that these are in a number of novels, right? --Kizor 03:48, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep. Guantanamo detainee, abundant available sources (including Amnesty, which can hardly be described as a primary source in this matter). This does not prejudice the possibility of merging the information to a more comprehensive article about captives held without trial at Guantanamo. It would be odd if we didn't record information of such significance. --Tony Sidaway 02:46, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Abd al Malik Abd al Wahab[edit]

Abd al Malik Abd al Wahab (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Article does not express how/why this person is notable or meets WP:BIO. May possibly be a WP:COATRACK to express protests at Guantanamo Bay detainment camp, on which I make no opinion. Stifle (talk) 20:25, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What sources are about Abd al Malik Abd al Wahab specifically? There are none. Saying keep without demonstrating it cannot result in a close of "keep". Please detail the sources you are basing keep on? What independent coverage has Abd al Malik Abd al Wahab received? • Lawrence Cohen 18:20, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What sources are about Abd al Malik Abd al Wahab specifically? There are none. Saying keep without demonstrating it cannot result in a close of "keep". Please detail the sources you are basing keep on? What independent coverage has Abd al Malik Abd al Wahab received? • Lawrence Cohen 18:20, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sources do not need to focus exclusively on an individual to provide useful (Neutral, factual, and verifiable) information about that individual. Neutral, verifiable information exists to document the existance and notability of the subject. In particular, I base my recommendation of Keep on the source (#11, at present) from the United States Department of Justice. The source discusses the court case known as "Abdulmalik Abdulwahhab Al-Rahabi v. George W. Bush", which is sufficient to prove notability. If consensus indicates that an article on this individual is not warranted, or does not meet WP:BIO, then I would recommend that the article and its contents be re-tasked as an article focusing on the court actions and events leading to (and, eventually, stemming from) such litigation. I stress, though, that cleanup (even if extensive enough to properly re-task the article) is not a justification for deletion. The closing admin may see fit to keep the article, with the caveat that it be edited into a more acceptable form - and that would be easily accomplished. ZZ Claims ~ Evidence 18:47, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Except that the subject still does not pass the BIO qualifications for notability, and this is still in violation of WP:BLP1E as well. • Lawrence Cohen 23:50, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The policy you cite recommends, with emphasis, to "Cover the event, not the person". With all due respect, would not retasking the article to focus on a notable court case involving this individual conform exactly to that policy? Further, if such revision is warranted (as it would appear to be), then deleting the article would be the absolute worst possible step toward accomplishing that task. My recommendation was to retain the article and revise it as you seem to recommend (i.e. per WP:BLP1E, focusing on the event or chain of events, not the individual). Once the article is no longer a biography, the dictates of WP:BLP and WP:BIO do not apply. Though I disagree that the individual is non-notable, I concede that his notability is quite weak. Revising the article in the manner you suggest would retain the acceptable information dealing with court proceedings and legal issues for which the subject is notable, while eliminating BLP concerns - and I believe that option to be preferable to deletion. ZZ Claims ~ Evidence 00:03, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Abdulmalik Abdulwahhab Al-Rahabi v. George W. Bush might be a reasonable move target, should the article be revised to focus on the court proceedings as recommended above. ZZ Claims ~ Evidence 00:04, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


I did my best to comply with all policies. I think I did an okay job.
I think that the details of what we know about Abdul Wahab's life merit coverage here.
  • He has, after all, disappeared from the official record.
  • He has, after all, had a writ of habeas corpus submitted before the US justice system. His habeas corpus has been activiely debated, for years. That merits coverage.
  • Is there room for improvement in this article? Sure. More about his habeas corpus for one. But having room for improvement is not grounds for deletion.
Cheers! Geo Swan 15:20, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What sources are about Abd al Malik Abd al Wahab specifically? There are none. Saying keep without demonstrating it cannot result in a close of "keep". Please detail the sources you are basing keep on? What independent coverage has Abd al Malik Abd al Wahab received? • Lawrence Cohen 18:20, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What sources are about Abd al Malik Abd al Wahab specifically? There are none. Saying keep without demonstrating it cannot result in a close of "keep". Please detail the sources you are basing keep on? What independent coverage has Abd al Malik Abd al Wahab received? • Lawrence Cohen 18:20, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete. --Tikiwont 10:47, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Martha Rogers and Don Peppers[edit]

Martha Rogers (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
Don Peppers (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Nom - non-notable academic biography. Only claim to notability is a non-notable set of business texts. Rklawton 20:16, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete ^demon[omg plz] 16:38, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Captain Shark tooth Gregorio[edit]

Captain Shark tooth Gregorio (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

I believe this is a hoax. I could not find any references on the web to confirm the existence of the subject yet the article claims "José was knighted from his royal and lordly ties. His exploits were fairly known and made him a hero to the Portuguese". NeilN 20:15, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. --Luigi30 (Taλk) 12:37, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jeff Wolverton[edit]

Jeff Wolverton (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Prodded with a concern of lack of notability and conflict of interest but I thought it would be better off here instead. No vote. See also Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2006 December 24. Hut 8.5 20:07, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Delete--JForget 01:30, 27 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Orlino swing[edit]

Orlino swing (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Neologism, prod remove by author. Claim of notability made, cannot be verified Wildthing61476 19:48, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Orlino swing is a slang term that is gaining popularity. I dont see why you would delete cool new phrases before they become universal. I am an equity trader in North Carolina and the term is frequently used.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.117.232.130 (talkcontribs)

KeepI trade for a living and I have Orlino Swings almost daily, it is a very common term in day trading.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.117.232.130 (talkcontribs)


Keep This is in fact a term used in day trading although it is not written about due to the fact it is slang, but non the less a term used with an increasing amount of regularity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NYdaytrader77 (talkcontribs)

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The result was Speedy keep as per WP:SNOW.Capitalistroadster 02:27, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Asharid-apal-Ekur[edit]

Asharid-apal-Ekur (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Weakly Fails WP:BIO, google search only came up with 87 sources, most not related to topic. Tiptoety 19:36, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: I am not refering to WP:BLP, but WP:BIO. Tiptoety 20:23, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:BIO considers the following notable: "Politicians who have held international, national or statewide/provincewide office, and members and former members of a national, state or provincial legislatures." A king would be at the highest part of that. Smashville 21:55, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - As a bare minimum, all of the following criteria must be met in order for a person to be deemed notable:
  1. The text of an article should include enough information to explain why the person is notable. External arguments via a talk page or Afd debate page are not part of the article itself, and promises on those pages to provide information are not as valid as the existence of the information on the article page itself.
  2. If the subject is living, the Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons policy must be followed.
  3. The person must have been the subject of published[6] secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject.[7]
    • If the depth of coverage is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may need to be cited to establish notability.
    • Trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources may not be sufficient to establish notability.[8]

Once notability is established, primary sources may be used to add content. Tiptoety 00:30, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The part of WP:BIO preceding that quoted above by Smashville says "A person is generally notable if they meet any of the following standards..." In any case an internet search by no means covers all secondary sources on recondite topics like this. Johnbod 01:06, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks to Smashville for tracking down the relevant bit of policy. Johnbod 22:01, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. GRBerry 14:30, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Abdul Karim Saeed Pasha[edit]

Abdul Karim Saeed Pasha (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Delete unsourced one-line biography; I guess being an Emir in the sense of king is notable, but it's unsourced and no indication that the position held is in the nature of a king rather than as a priestly title and most preachers aren't notable without more coverage in 3rd party RSes Carlossuarez46 19:28, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

also nominating:

Carlossuarez46 19:31, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Throw it in the vault. --Luigi30 (Taλk) 12:39, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sands of Oblivion[edit]

Sands of Oblivion (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Delete some say films cannot be speedy deleted, so this unsourced one-liner about a nn film released or to be released this year is for the community to decide. Carlossuarez46 19:13, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Delete. --Luigi30 (Taλk) 12:39, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Chicken and Duck Talk[edit]

Chicken and Duck Talk (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Delete another unsourced article about a film with no indication as to notability. Carlossuarez46 19:19, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was splat! Let's pretend 9 November is here already; speedily deleted as a context-free NN bio. Angus McLellan (Talk) 13:36, 27 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Conor Smith[edit]

I think this article should be deleted, for there are not articles for each individual professional irish dancer; only the main dancers have articles on Wikipedia. --Breadsticks.rock 19:08, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedy delete. CSD A7. — Scientizzle 21:33, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

신현규[edit]

신현규 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

I don't think this person passes the notability criteria. -- Prince Kassad 18:58, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was closed. DS 01:58, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sancho de Leόn[edit]

Article created by a user with links to the hoaxish House of Camino. I can find no Google hits for "Rodrigo Sanchez de Veloso" and no reliable sources for a "Count of Veloso" or a "Conde de Veloso" or "Conte de Veloso". Corvus cornix 18:55, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. --John 19:06, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Cheers, :) Dlohcierekim 21:05, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Keep. --Luigi30 (Taλk) 12:40, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Family History Society[edit]

Family History Society (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Unsourced listcruft, almost entirely red-linked, and unlikely to become anything else. ^demon[omg plz] 18:39, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was transwiki and delete. Now it's available at b:Fortran/Fortran examples. MaxSem 19:20, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fortran code examples[edit]

Fortran code examples (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

The article seems to be a list of unrelated examples of Fortran code, Delete per WP:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_an_indiscriminate_collection_of_information. --Hq3473 18:18, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

To say it in another way: the code samples show how the oldest programming language had evolved over several decades. This provides some (imperfect) insight on how does the evolution of procedural languages looks like. Theoretically, WP could have a synthetizing article about such evolution but in practice there would be no agreement among editors (comparing computer languages can raise a lot of emotional heat). Article name may be changed to reflect this role, that it is not just a dump of examples to be copied. Pavel Vozenilek 03:47, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete as non-notable constructed language, lacking any reliable sources at all. Bearian 16:45, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sambahsa-mundialect[edit]

Sambahsa-mundialect (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Recently constructed language being promoted by its creator. No evidence of notability. From the comments on the talk page, an appropriate treatment might be to redirect to Modern Indo-European and mention it briefly there. -- RHaworth 17:10, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sellamat! I am actually the author of the page and, as such, I don't take a stand. From the comments above, I suppose I was misled by the fact that auxlangs with no speaker have an article (ex: Europaio whose friendly creator adviced me to publish my work on the Net; not to mention "fantasy auxlangs" like Wenedyk of our friend Jan). I would just recommend that guidelines for deletion should be redefined, especially about notability. In general, people on the street have only heard about esperanto while "auxlangers" communicate nowadays through the Net (for auxlangs are by nature a matter of international concern) and have thus seen a lot of projects. Concerning articles by third parties, don't forget that the ability to make journalists or scholars pay attention to his/her project is not revealing of the quality of the language itself, as Jan has already said. (I'd like to add that I did not create the language to go on Wikipedia, for I began working on it when Wikipedia did not yet exist :-))
If auxlangs like Slovio don't deserve an article, I don't bother about deletion nor merging of the page.
Do what you have to do.
Best regards. Mundialecter 18:34, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete. Hut 8.5 07:49, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Paul Younan[edit]

Paul Younan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This individual fails to meet the WP:BIO notability criteria. The article's main claim to notability is that the subject's theories have gotten a lot of notice on a forum, and the article goes on to explicitly state that his work has never been published in a peer-reviewed journal. There are no sources listed, and I couldn't find any reliable sources online either. Karanacs 16:55, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Delete. --Luigi30 (Taλk) 12:42, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Eclerx[edit]

Eclerx (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Not notable. Has been speedied twice, and the author complained. Rschen7754 (T C) 16:39, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: The one source that is listed in the article states that the company was the source of the article. Toddstreat1 17:16, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Speedy delete. Hut 8.5 17:08, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Another Long Semester[edit]

Another Long Semester (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Contested prod. Non-notable album by a non-notable artist, whose own article is tagged for speedy. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 16:33, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Delete all --Haemo 01:13, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

International Peace Institute[edit]

International Peace Institute (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This article and some related pages were nominated for deletion in September 2006, with no consensus reached. All seem to relate to Chika Sylva-Olejeme, a Nigerian man of questionable notability. His chief claim to fame seems to be an "appointment" as an "ambassador of peace" by the Universal Peace Federation, run by Sun Myung Moon, but our article on the Universal Peace Federation says these "ambassadors" are volunteers, not appointed diplomats.

These articles all seem to reference each other – Sylva-Olejeme developed Post Philosophy, whose branch is Christian Post Philosophy, which led to the International Peace Institute, which developed the Peace Conservation System, which obeys the Universal Peace Protocol, which backs the peace creed, which is based on Post Philosophy. It's a maze of pseudo-notability. There are about four ELs, used by almost all of these articles, to pages at UNESCO – but two are '404 Not Found' (dead), one is to a kids art program, and one is a proposal to have a project of some sort that either hasn't happened or won't happen.

This is a textbook example of using Wikipedia to establish credibility where little exists. They are mostly unreferenced, except to each other, and the third-party references are of questionable quality and relevance. Begone with them. KrakatoaKatie 16:12, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Included with this nomination are:

Universal Peace Protocol (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Peace Conservation System (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
International Creed for Peace (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
ICP Campaign (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Post Philosophy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Christian Post Philosophy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), and
Chika Sylva-Olejeme (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
no one gets a vote this is a discussion not a vote.Ridernyc 06:11, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Reply - I will then expand my reply. I reviewed each article in the nomination, so this is not a case of just looking at one article and assuming the rest are the same. I did not simply accept the word of the nominator. I conducted Google searches to look for references for each article. Although many result are turned up, I cannot find any that meet the definition of reliable sources. So the "delete" from me has been considered before registering the opinion. I am quite open to a "keep" and could be persuaded by multiple reliable sources independent of the subject. But such sources are not provided in the articles, nor was I able to find them myself. And from what I can see, I don't see evidence that such sources could be found. As such, I would maintain a position of "delete". -- Whpq 18:52, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I too looked at each article, considered whether or not there was notability or verifiability. I did not find any reason to not delete the bunch. I also feel there is a stridency to assert as notable that which is not. To have so many articles essentially about the same not notable subject with a twist to each so strenuously defended only heightens that sense. Cheers, :) Dlohcierekim 22:41, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If you could provide verifiable sourcing that supports subject's meeting WP:BIO, it would be a stronger argument to "keep" than railing about the "unfairness of Wikipedia." This is an argument sometimes used in AfD's by creators of articles that are about a non notable subject where meeting WP:BIO has not been proven. Cheers, :) Dlohcierekim 14:39, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

[11] [12] [13] these information are not posted on the Internet and are not meant to be. Motegole 19:17, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reply - I fail to see how these articles support notability for any of the articles that have been nominated for deletion. -- Whpq 20:04, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

my emphasis is that a talk page is already running since 10 October 2006.

before i forget try to consider notability as worthy of notice WP:BIO [15] "Within Wikipedia, notability is an article inclusion criterion based on encyclopedic suitability. The topic of an article should be notable, or "worthy of notice". This concept is distinct from "fame", "importance", or "popularity"." Motegole 11:37, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reply' - the main thrust of discussion here has been the lack of independent reliable sources about the subjects. The articles really lack that. Searching for them have turned up none. And requests to provide them have us just talkng around in circles. Quite simply put, reliable sources need to be provided. -- Whpq 12:34, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete — fails WP:CORP --Haemo 01:16, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Houston jewelry[edit]

Houston jewelry (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This article is about a small chain of jewelry stores in Texas. The article primarily traces the history of the chain's expansion, but there is no claim of notability, no reliable sources are cited, and I haven't been able to find any sources beyond directory listings and an obituary for one of the founders. I think this fails WP:NOTABILITY. Karanacs 16:08, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The page DOES NOT FAIL. It is a narrative about a little recorded industry, ethnic group, and period of rapid economic development of a largely frontier part of the US. The style needs cleaning the firm is notable for it size, evolution, and age. Lastly it is the ONLY catalog showroom company to successfully convert from a catalog show room format [thing Best Products, Service Merchandise] into a guild jewelry & fine gift store in the nation. Brendall's tried and went out of business, so did Luria's and many others. In the jewelry industry to survival of Houston Jewelry has been noted many times in the trades as unique experience. See this article http://66.201.106.163/portal_FullMazalUbracha.asp?id=25332 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rex495 (talkcontribs)

It is a narrative, and a fascinating one. Links to the mentions in the trades might be helpful, as some seem mention in the trades as significant. They might provide verifiable sources of notability. Maybe. There is no indication in the article of meeting WP:CORP. As it stands, it's just a personal narrative. Cheers, :) Dlohcierekim 14:16, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Note Information from Reference USA in NOT always accurate, neither is Dun & Brandstreet, however county court records, census records, and secretary of state records as well as original records are VERY accurate. Rex495 06:58, 2 November 2007 (UTC)KeepRex495rex495[reply]

Just a note, Rex495 appears to be connected to the corporation in question[19]. Karanacs 18:13, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What we need is an indication of meeting WP:CORP. I could not find any. If anyone, particularly those who have contributed to this article could show meeting WP:CORP, I can change to keep. Admins, please hold off on closing this for now. I want to take another look. I'm at work, and won't have an opportunity till tomorrow at the earliest. Cheers, :) Dlohcierekim 18:37, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Having reread the article, I am convinced that it is a fascinating family history. However, I see no indication of meeting inclusion criteria under WP:CORP or WP:BIO, unless being robbed by Bonnie and Clyde conveys notability. If so, switch to keep; otherwise, delete. Cheers, :) Dlohcierekim 14:10, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Bust a cap in it. --Luigi30 (Taλk) 12:43, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Brothers in Arms (Young Jeezy & Akon album)[edit]

Brothers in Arms (Young Jeezy & Akon album) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Future album with no sources verifying its existence. One IP even claimed it was a hoax. Prod removed without explanation. Spellcast 16:07, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a link? --¤ The-G-Unit-฿oss ¤ 10:01, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete--JForget 01:32, 27 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Eighth studio album[edit]

Eighth studio album (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

As much as I would love Blur to release an eighth album, the facts (and the media) stand that Blur is currently not planning to do so. Thus, this article is pure crystalballing taken to its logical extreme. TheLetterM 16:02, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Scientology controversy#Allegations of mistreatment of members. --bainer (talk) 06:00, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Noah Lottick[edit]

Noah Lottick (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable person committed non-notable suicide. Article is inherently POV as his only mention in media is as a take-off point for a POV piece attacking Scientology and, IMO, is more of a journalist styling than any inherent notability for Lottick. Note that the basis of notability mentioned in the article is "controversy" but there was no actual (notable) controversy over the suicide; no charges filed, etc. Please do not be impressed by the number of references as there is a degree of duplication, triviality, and inclusion of non-related notable issues such as the fight between the Church of Scientology and Time Magazine. Note also that the large number of links to the article is due to inclusion in the Scientology template, a very questionable inclusion given the total lack of relative importance. In the interest of full disclosure, I am a Scientologist but I rarely nominate articles for deletion and only those few that really, IMO, do not belong here. Thank you for your time. Justanother 15:54, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

cough cough, and here is the "helpful" critic of Scientology to perhaps imply that Justanother is a hypocrite or something?? --JustaHulk 02:29, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Instead of getting your panties in a bunch, Modemac (why is it always the Scientology critic that takes exception), why not just WP:AGF and assume that I meant it exactly the way it is stated - that there was nothing notable about the suicide that would warrant inclusion in an encyclopedia. I am, of course, sensitive to the tragic aspects, especially as a father myself. If I wanted to be overly sensitive, I would be more "offended" that Justanother (me) said that his life was non-notable. --JustaHulk 02:29, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Justanother is a great guy but he needs to watch his expressions sometimes. Steve Dufour 23:43, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Steve, did you obtain statistics for scientologist suicides from a reference, or are you speculating?--Fahrenheit451 02:14, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The famous anti-Scientology website "whyaretheydead?" lists about 30 or so Scientologist suicides. This is far fewer than would be expected over the 50 years of Scientology history. BTW it looks like I might be coming back to the project soon. Steve Dufour 03:40, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Steve, you base your conclusion on thirtysome listed suicides on that particular website. I know of three suicides in the cofs that never made it to that website. I am curious why you assume that low number is accurate.--Fahrenheit451 19:12, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I know of 4 suicides of CofS members that are not listed on that site. 3 were former friends and 1 was a family member. Of the 4 I know the 1 that was one of my family member was the only one that didn't blame CofS in there suicide note. Elhector 23:31, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I have a little trouble with that, Hector. I have 30 years in Scientology and personally know of only one suicide by a Scientologist maybe 5 - 10 years ago, a friend I had known since I became involved. Even F451 says that he "knows of" three more, not that they were his friends. Don't really want to call you a liar (and I am not) but that you know four seems like a major statistical exceedance. --JustaHulk 02:29, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair, there are probably Scientologists who wish bad things for Scientology critics. That is wrong too. Steve Dufour 12:54, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep. Ρх₥α 01:52, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Name of the Band is Cowboy Mouth[edit]

The Name of the Band is Cowboy Mouth (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Track listing of as yet unreleased album DVD. Move information to Cowboy Mouth discography which contains track listings of albums by same band. Kim Dent-Brown (Talk to me) 15:42, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Apologies, I had missed the fact that this is a DVD and not a CD. Nevertheless, in my opinion it fails to meet the notability criteria either for films or for music. Kim Dent-Brown (Talk to me) 16:31, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I believe it passes the notability for films..."The film features significant involvement (ie. one of the most important roles in the making of the film) by a notable person and is a major part of his/her career." Clearly all of the musicians are notable, the first dvd of their careers is a major part of their careers, etc. It also passes the notability for music as the band is notable and one of the songs has charted. This article was put on afd literally 2 minutes after creation when it was just a track listing; now the article is clearly more than that. Frog47 16:54, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Then you believe wrong, the burden of proof is on the creator of the article, or the keep !voters, to prove notability. If they fail to show notability, the article gets deleted. Simple.Crazysuit 00:49, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
How so? If the policy says "it may be notable", then it is up to those arguing for deletion to prove the lack of notability of an existing article. It's a DVD/album by a notable band. Smashville 14:25, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It does pass the notability for films though..."The film features significant involvement (ie. one of the most important roles in the making of the film) by a notable person and is a major part of his/her career." Clearly all of the musicians are notable, the first dvd of their careers is a major part of their careers, etc. Frog47 16:42, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete. CitiCat 01:56, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Francis William Fielding White[edit]

Francis William Fielding White (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable Brian0324 15:32, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Non-notable person with no sources listed. This article has been tagged as sourceless orphan for some time.Brian0324 15:34, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Keep. CitiCat 01:53, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Kashmiri Muslim tribes from Hindu Lineage[edit]

Kashmiri Muslim tribes from Hindu Lineage (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Thia article is almost an exact replica of Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Punjabi_Muslim_tribes_from_Hindu_Lineage. That article was deleted for being an "indiscriminate collection of unsourced information". This article has some sources, but they are for material which is off topic. Delete for violating WP:OR, and WP:NOT. IP198 15:26, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - This article is not an indiscriminate collection of unsourced information .

The sources in the article are directly related to the topic .
There is no original research as there are citations from standard secondary sources .
Intothefire 17:26, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Well sourced from secondary sourced. Nom has got an axe to grind as well.Bakaman 00:45, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It is more than 5 days since this debate was started and therefore a verdict should be passed closing the discussion .CheersIntothefire 06:08, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Snowball keep - not a "small village" but a mid-sized city, which are notable by extensive precedent. --Haemo 17:18, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Welimada[edit]

Welimada (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable small village in Sri Lanka. Cyclopediafixer 15:21, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 17:45, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of notable vegetarians[edit]

List of notable vegetarians (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Redundant to Category:Vegetarians and List of vegans where the people are already notable. Spellcast 15:21, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

But it still adds nothing to all the people in Category:Vegetarians by nationality. Spellcast 15:47, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep. Ρх₥α 01:54, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dragon Ball Z 3 Original Soundtrack[edit]

Dragon Ball Z 3 Original Soundtrack (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non notable Sound Track for one game DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 15:06, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

An album cannot inherit notability from it's label/artist. --¤ The-G-Unit-฿oss ¤ 10:07, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete. As no assertion of notability.CitiCat 01:49, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pierre-Benoist Varoclier[edit]

Pierre-Benoist Varoclier (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
This nomination is (sort of) on behalf of an anonymous user, who said, in [21]

"The same page has been deleted from the French version of Wikipedia, as Pierre-Benoist Varoclier didn't fulfil the required criterias (Varoclier appears in many movies, which explains why he has a page on IMDB, but never played any significant part and therefore can be considered not notable). He also was suspected of having created the page himself for autopromotion."

. Indeed, for his supposedly only role in a "big" film, Mr. Bean, the IMDB says he's uncredited (i.e. at best he acted a waiter in a half-scene, I can't tell), while UniFrance lists only 2 additional films, for which he's credited... last on the list, if that's the measure of importance. Can't find any independent reviews other than miscellaneous film databases. Actually, his home page at http://pbv.free.fr/ has several more roles from 2006/2007, but can't tell about their significance. Duja 14:43, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. There's nothing except birth date and death date that's not already in History of the Brenham Jewish Community. - KrakatoaKatie 08:24, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alex Simon[edit]

Alex Simon (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This person does not meet WP:BIO notability criteria. The notability assertions in the article include the fact that he helped found a small synagogue in Brenham, Texas and that he was an investor in a railroad. Three of the four sources do not meet WP:RS, and the other mentions the subject only in passing. I was unable to find further sources on Google. Karanacs 14:33, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 17:46, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bible and reincarnation[edit]

Bible and reincarnation (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This article has been around for a while - but that has only shown that it is unsalvageably an essay on an unencyclopedic subject. It consists solely of a whole screed of Bible passages, and utterly unreferenced, nonacademic opinionated commentary about whether they may be compatible with reincarnation. There is no evidence of citable secondary literature discussing the subject - and the references are just a concocted reading list. I've no doubt an proper essay on Christian views of reincarnation or Jewish views of Reincarnation could be written - which could include any discussion of the hermeneutics of the Bible in any academic debates on the matter (if there indeed are any). But this essay is just the assertions of wikipedians and should be deleted. We've waited long enough for a clean-up, and it obviously ain't gonna happen.. -Docg 14:33, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Unattributed OR. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 14:53, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I was considering proposing it just the day before, on article's talk page (here, at OR). Glad I'm not the only one. adriatikus | 15:02, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Original research. Danny 16:29, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - nonsensical silliness, virtually unreferenced, and the few books listed seem to be written by cranks. Moreschi Talk 16:31, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • By a look at the history, I say it could have been deleted at any point in its history. It could be an encyclopedic article. Theoretically. But I think it's better to wait for its next, er, reincarnation... --victor falk 10:50, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Right. The topic is notable the same way 'bible and aliens' would be. Notability isn't about what is cool, or speculative syncretisms. Per WP:N, "notability is distinct from popularity". In this case, the topic would be notable if (1) there would be denominations interpreting the Bible (not other sources) as sustaining reincarnation, or (2) there would be scholars (like religion historians) interpreting the text of the Bible in this way. AFAIK there is no Christian denomination standing such a position. I'm not aware of any scholar standing it, either. One could speculate about the influences between reincarnation believes and Abrahamic religions eschatology, but this would be a topic related to religious systems and not simply to a collection of texts (like the Bible). On the other hand, the topic is cool because of the recently developed mixture of conspiracy theories, anti-papacy (in extenso anti-catholicism), popular (both in a proper and pejorative sense) interest in biblical archeology, and the need to fill a void in the "civilised" but secular West. This void may be filled by anyone as he seems to be right for himself - by revolt against institutionalised religion, by turning toward Far East religious systems, by syncretism, by inventing "true" Christians (e.g. gnostics - BTW, they weren't Christians) silenced by the "evil" Church etc. No problem. Everyone should travel this "personal journey" the way he likes and feels it's right. But this searching should be kept in one's personal universe and not promoted in an encyclopedia as being "notable".
Now to the point. The fact that some morons made money on people's ignorance (like Dan Brown and Simcha Jacobovici), insinuating (that fiction may be real, like the former) or speculating (like the later), doesn't make a topic notable. Don't confound notability to ratings points. This "Gnostic revival" we lately observe in magazines, in pop science tv networks, in blogs, in success books (yeah, that's money), is dust in the air. It's pop religiosity based on pop science. There aren't scientists, nor denominations supporting it. Only people making money and a bunch of ignorants paying for something they cannot critically judge. How many of its supporters actually studied the history of the Church? Hm, maybe if you search enough you may find some Liberal Christians related to this media trend (like The Lost Tomb of Jesus religious "consultant", hehe, James Tabor) who interpret the Bible purely metaphorically, in various ways (and I'm not sure they suport reincarnation being in or suggested by the Bible) - but they are an insignificantly small group, small enough to deserve an article titled "Bible interpretation in Liberal Xtian views" (if this article is feasible). Maybe one should "gather evidence" on the topic starting with Biblical canon, Christian eschatology and even Afterlife, here, at WP, before considering to propose "keep" for this article.
The article is wrong because: (1) it hasn't reliable sources, (2) there aren't reliable sources per above, (3) it directly contradicts the views of the great majority of Christians, denominations and biblical scholars, (4) it leads the reader into drawing wrong conclusions (I can imagine the perplexity of the reader of this article confronted to Death and resurrection of Jesus - read the Significance part), (5) it's purely speculative, (6) there is no debate if the Bible sustains or may sustain reincarnation.
This topic stayed open for too long. It seems it's judged politically correctly forgetting about common sense. Anyone can start any article if he provides reliable sources. Otherwise, if the article flagrantly contradicts without sources topics already covered, discussed, with reliable sources, here, at WP, then it should be deleted. I've thought WP isn't a blog.
adriatikus | 17:43, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 17:47, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Raphael Lataster[edit]

Raphael Lataster (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This biography has been created, possibly by the individual concerned, for promotion. My expertise is in Aramaic and Syriac (currently at Oxford): Lataster has never published in a peer-reviewed journal, nor has he any qualification in the field. Thus, any claim to have broken through academic consensus is impossible to evaluate, and is likely bunk. As for the financial advice, I'm not sure it is sufficiently notable to warrant an article. — Gareth Hughes 14:18, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep. GRBerry 14:36, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fear of God (LA)[edit]

Fear of God (LA) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This article was originally (and properly) deleted as a CSD A7 DRV restored on the basis of a new assertion (not yet verified) that the band's recordings were published under the Warner Brothers label. Still, delete, given notability concerns. Xoloz 14:14, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

*Delete unleass warner automaticaly conveys notability. I see no assertion of meeting notability, and the allmusic page does not mention any awards. Cheers, :) Dlohcierekim 19:08, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And being released on a major label does meet WP:BAND. Cheers, :) Dlohcierekim 14:43, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete — if you want a copy of the deleted article to merge content from, request one. --Haemo 01:18, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sam H. Toubin[edit]

Sam H. Toubin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This individual does not meet notability criteria; the only claims the article makes are that he operated nine stores in Texas and donated money to a few local organizations. He is of no more than local interest, if that, and does not appear to be the subject of any reliable sources. The creator has asserted on the talk page that he is important to Jewish Texan history, but there is no claim for that in the article. Karanacs 14:10, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 17:48, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of Windows Home Server Add-Ins[edit]

List of Windows Home Server Add-Ins (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This page is just one giant ad. The phrasing tone is very ad oriented ("No minimum monthly fees, no long-term commitment", "Find and view album art for all your music"), most of these products are also NN - A google search for Jungle Disk for Windows Home Server brings back little to do with Jungle disk after page 2, A search for HomeBase only brings up, rather random, results, searches for KeepVault and LobsterTunes bear only several results on the first page, a search Remote Notification simply brings up results for anything with "Remote Notification" in it. TV-VCR watch 13:58, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

— Goelectric (talkcontribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 17:49, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Joseph Renzi[edit]

Joseph Renzi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Claims of notability in article are a bit weak. First several pages of non-wiki ghits don't show any notability for this Joseph Renzi. Sources given in article either don't mention Joseph Renzi at all or are only passing mentions. Speedy has been contested, so I assume prod will be too. Fabrictramp 14:09, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

no clear establishment of meeting WP:BIO criteria. suspected self promotional article by user who has solely edited this page and Joseph Renzi's company article SwapAce, now deleted. original version of this article contained excessive minor detail such as that he was the 2nd child of his parents and that he was a member of chess club at high school. type of detail that only Joseph would know himself. clear violation of WP:COI. 210.56.73.254 15:57, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 17:49, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Young Arcan and the Garden of Loc[edit]

Young Arcan and the Garden of Loc (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This was originally speedy-deleted under CSD A7. DRV overturned as books are not within the CSD. Still, Delete as advertorial, and a probable vanity-press work. Xoloz 13:56, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 17:50, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Juiced series soundtracks[edit]

Juiced series soundtracks (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

I am also nominating the following related page:

SSX series soundtracks (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

More soundtracks...

  1. Notability - the only sources these soundtracks have are such gaming sites as ign, gamespot, teamxbox etc. who report on many such aspects of games as and when they are announced by the publisher. This does not comprise significant coverage as each game's soundtrack is not discussed in any meaningful way, just listed, somtimes along with a bit of press-release blurb.
  2. WP:NOT an indiscriminate collection of information. Each game's soundtrack has no meaningful connection to the others in its series and listing them together serves no real purpose.
  3. WP:NOT#DIRECTORY - Notable elements of soundtracks should be written about (not listed) in each game's article.
  4. WP:WEIGHT - the soundtracks have little to no impact on the games themselves, and their importance is being highly overstated by giving them seperate articles. Again, the most notable elements of each soundtack should be mentioned on the pages of the games in question.
  5. Guidelines for video game articles - "[articles should not contain] an excessive amount of non-encyclopedic trivia". Simply being true and verifyable is no reason for inclusion. If necessary, these lists should be transferred to a suitable gaming wiki - they can always be linked to from the game articles.
  6. Also per general WP:CVG concensus that video game lists have to demonstrate a very good reason for existing, and these simply don't. Miremare 13:09, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom - if the soundtrack has notable artists that are cited in secondary sources, a prose statement can be added to the individual articles to describe the type of music in the game (I note this should be the case for SSX Blur), but otherwise it's all BG music and non-notable for an article. --MASEM 13:29, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • commentWith all due respect FogDevil, that itself is a sort of argument for deletion (though a weak one). In general Wikipedia policy forbids Original Research. The concerns here are not about the usefulness or veracity of the list, but rather the notability of the subject matter. In the absence of third-party material on the soundtrack, all that can be said about it is "this is the soundtrack to this game" which is a type of the more generally deleted article group where all that can be said is "X is a Y," and a list of attributes. Wintermut3 03:58, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Transwiki All Juiced tracks are now transwikied to the Encyclopedia Gamia they can be found under the soundtrack link on the infobox of the games--Cs california 07:14, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Now I finished all SSX tracks --Cs california 07:22, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That's cool that you did that but how is that good to a normal Wikipedia user like me? I don't even know what that this.FogDevil 14:07, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It is a gaming wiki that is right here so the articles can be found there still --Cs california 07:32, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Why do you want this deleted? Is it hurting you by being here? I don't want to be one of those internet jerks who just criticizes people, but find something better to do than find articles to delete...FogDevil 23:03, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete, without prejudice to recreation if the film actually gets produced.--Kubigula (talk) 18:41, 2 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Little Mermaid III[edit]

The Little Mermaid III (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Article's existence is not yet warranted per the notability guidelines for films. If the project enters production, the article can be recreated. As the article suggests, this project has likely been dumped. Liquidfinale (Ţ) (Ç) (Ŵ) 12:42, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

shows no reliable sources, either, with apparently only speculation in forums and blogs. If the project can be verified to enter production per WP:NF, then the article can be recreated. —Erik (talkcontrib) - 12:49, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • The AfDs were before the so-called preview of The Little Mermaid III on DVD on October 2006, so I'm not sure if speedy deletion would have worked. Judging from the lack of any information about this project since the preview, though... —Erik (talkcontrib) - 13:04, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And yet you guys used it in several Critical Response sections despite it not being verifiable? really, if it isn't verifiable, why would you source it in a critical response section of a Movie? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.252.186 (talk) 00:13, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It can be a nice source of extra information, but it should not be the only source. It cannot be used to assert notability. It seems IMDB articles have been tampered with in the past, for what reasons you cab well imagine. And just because someone did does not mean they should have. Cheers, :) Dlohcierekim 14:49, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 17:51, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A Rat Movie[edit]

A Rat Movie (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

There are no reliable sources that establish notability or provide verifiable content for this purported project. It seems to constitute a hoax as there is a similar film article at AfD, Jujitsu Deer, that cannot be verified as an actual film in the making. The proponent of the unverifiable information on Wikipedia has been UserMarcoUser/GarryUser. Erik (talkcontrib) - 12:29, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was The article simply did not meet reliable sourcing or verifiability That however was not the causation for the deletion. There were biography of living persons issues in the mix. This article was not a good idea BLP wise from the start.. Mercury 22:42, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of celebrities who have changed their name[edit]

List of celebrities who have changed their name (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Article was up for deletion back in april. The result was no consensus. Many of the keeps wanted to see improvement, as far as I can tell nothing has improved. And I would like to highlight this statement from the first debate "The info is already in the articles. If I want to look up Gerald Fords original name I'll just look in his article. "Wikipedia articles are not: 1. Lists or repositories of loosely associated topics"". I personally think the is way to broad of an inclusion criteria and the subjects may be notable but the topic is not notable. Ridernyc 12:21, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

DeleteVerrai 14:08, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wont that just lead to the CFD crew calling for it's deletion with the argument of "delete, replace with a list", and so on? Lugnuts 15:39, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If one format had to be picked, it would have to be the category. Besides, the list is just way too broad. Spellcast 15:56, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Then I suggest making the category, being sure to leave a note about this AfD and a link to this discussion on its talk page to hold off the CfD crowd. Rob T Firefly 16:26, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
For one thing, a category will only be able to contain people notable enough for their own articles. Additionally, categories aren't indiscriminate gatherings of new information, they are simply an organizational tool for the information we already have. Rob T Firefly 03:48, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
exactly in order to be in a catagory an article should have already established it's own notability. On a list you nee to establish notabilty for every entry.Ridernyc 09:27, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well, if the people on this list are actually celebrities, then we can assume that they pass notability guidelines. Zagalejo^^^ 18:40, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, I've sourced about 150 of them. I do agree that the list needs trimming (I'd remove names like J.D. Drew or ALbert Pujols), but those issues can be hashed out on the talk page. Zagalejo^^^ 04:33, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think sourcing is one of the lesser problems of this list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ridernyc (talkcontribs) 10:13, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep. - Mailer Diablo 17:52, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WLCM (Lancaster)[edit]

WLCM (Lancaster) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
It doesn't appear to have been deleted to me... The article seems to have a point to me, though could maybe be merged into some other article. mattbuck 12:22, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 17:53, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Izet Kaljic[edit]

Izet Kaljic (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable footballer; from what I gathered, he played only in a few Swedish 4-th or 5-th division clubs. 8 Google hits. Almost an CSD A7 candidate, but being a "hot name for big clubs" is an assertion of notability. Duja 11:54, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was merge and redirect to Windows Live Hotmail per WP:BLP1E. - KrakatoaKatie 12:34, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Chaney (consultant)[edit]

Michael Chaney (consultant) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Had very minor press coverage for a single event (see WP:BLP1E), content should be merged into an article about passport.net. He is not notable for anything else. There is no way to support the article with anything about his life beyond this one event (for example his death would not be notable or in the papers). Was nominated for deletion more than a year ago with no consensus. debate is here. Jon513 11:43, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was deleted. - Mailer Diablo 17:53, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ibrahim Bin Azarah Falli[edit]

Ibrahim Bin Azarah Falli (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Unreferenced article and Failed to establish notability NAHID 17:31, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Author's other article "Ibrahim Falli" removed yesterday after db-person. Pishogue 20:54, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 17:53, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Centreon[edit]

Centreon (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Software that shows no sign of being notable in any way Pak21 11:17, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 17:54, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Screaming To God[edit]

Screaming To God (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Prodecural nom; I've just declined a speedy-delete request on this as while the article is right on the margin of an A7, it appears to be potentially expandable and not a two-guys-with-a-myspace-page band. Despite the one album, I'm not convinced it passes WP:BAND, but am certainly willing to be convinced. Lots of hits but no reliable sources that I can find; however, since they're from pre-internet days it may be that the press exists but hasn't made it online. Bringing it over in case anyone can dig coverage out. BTW, ignore the deleted version in the log; that wasn't deleted on notability grounds, but was a totally different version deleted as a copyvio. I'm sitting on the fence regarding this one as I think it's very borderline, so I abstain. iridescent 22:16, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Coredesat 05:12, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 11:07, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Needs sources other than the band's own Myspace page. If the band were notable, there would be something to dig up. Mindraker 12:16, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete – no references, original research, fails WP:BIO. If the article's creator wanted something kept confidential, he shouldn't have put it on Wikipedia. - KrakatoaKatie 12:23, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ ""Can I Get an Amen?"". Retrieved October 31, 2007.