This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Hello, I'm Gologmine. I noticed that you recently removed content from Khorgo without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Would you stop removing my contents? next time giving you more severe warningGologmine (talk) 13:46, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
hi i wanted to ask please recreate my page. i am editing it and making it encyclopedic. please I have already done a lot of work on it and why did you delete it? kindly do guide me whats wrong in it so that I can correct — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amyhere (talk • contribs) 20:40, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
Amyhere, I am not an administrator and don't have the ability to recreate your page. I nominated it for deletion because it was entirely promotional. Next time, make your page encyclopedic from the start. That way, you won't have to do "a lot of work" for nothing. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 20:47, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
also, I have seen a message that I should ask you to recover my page since you have deleted it. Amyhere (talk) 20:54, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
Which pages have you seen Amyhere? As above, I did not delete your page. You should ask the administrator who deleted it (they will almost certainly say no). ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 21:02, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
Hello, please take a look at the vandalism taking place in the article Chucky (character). A bunch of IP addresses keep vandalizing it and it seems like I’m the only user trying to revert the edits back to the sourced version, although you did help and edit but the page needs to be protected. Thanks. Editsvi (talk) 02:42, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
Hello. A request to take another look and hopefully pass Spiggotr6's article on this artwork which hangs in the United States Capitol as its official portrait of Abraham Lincoln. The painting is sourced to the House of Representatives and Capitol collection and also has a Smithsonian source. One gallery or museum source is usually enough to pass a visual artwork, and this page has several. This has become a major painting of Lincoln due to its prominence of being displayed in the Capitol and as part of the Capitol collection (as Lincoln's official portrait). Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:42, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
The paraphrasing concern is important, thanks for pointing that out. Once that's fixed then the sources come into play again, and it's pretty standard for Wikipedia artwork articles to accept museum or gallery sourcing for mainspacing the page. In this case the museum/gallery is the U.S. Capitol Building, and sources from there should surfice. But yes, the paraphrasing seems the main priority right now. Thanks for taking another look. Randy Kryn (talk) 04:27, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Tale of the Moon Cuckoo you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Geethree -- Geethree (talk) 18:01, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
The article Tale of the Moon Cuckoo you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Tale of the Moon Cuckoo for comments about the article, and Talk:Tale of the Moon Cuckoo/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article has never appeared on the Main Page as a "Did you know" item, and has not appeared within the last year either as "Today's featured article", or as a bold link under "In the news" or in the "On this day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear at DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On this day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Geethree -- Geethree (talk) 18:21, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
Maxim Masiutin, in case you haven't got the message, everyone is thoroughly fed up of dealing with your antics. Go and write some articles, then come back and argue to change a page you didn't bother reading in the first place. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:12, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
I read that page and I understood it was for finding another reviewer when the review was abandoned, that's why I thought that item did not apply in my case. The language was not clear. You might have familiarity with the process, still, a new person to a matter may find some instances overlooked by people who already know the process. I already made proposals to the other rule pages and those proposal were accepted. Please try to distance from personality and review this proposal isolated from who proposed it, as if it were proposed by somebody else. The fact that I might have committed errors somewhere else does not automatically mean that my proposal is bad. Maxim Masiutin (talk) 13:21, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
There are four explicit instructions on that page to go to WT:GAN if there are problems, Maxim Masiutin. If you are to be believed, you read sentences like If you are in a situation where you absolutely cannot continue to review the article, please contact the nominator. Consider helping them find a new reviewer. If necessary, leave a note on the GA nominations discussion page. and thought "I think not. The language is not clear. It may not apply in my case. I'll invent a completely new process instead." Why would I forget that you proposed it, knowing that it comes from someone who did not read the page properly in the first place? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:24, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
Thank you for the explanation. The current edition on the rules is different from my proposal: it encourages the reviewer who retracts to find a new reviewer first without simply returning the article to backlog as I tried to propose, and that is a difference. Sorry, I didn't thought about it in that way, thank you for your patience and time explaining me. Maxim Masiutin (talk) 13:44, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
In your revert message you wrote I did'n discuss it so I thought it would have been worth otherwise discussing, but it turned out to propose a different process which is a no-go Maxim Masiutin (talk) 14:00, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
Mongolian State Academic Theatre of Opera and Ballet
I just wanted to encourage you to consider expanding our coverage at Mongolian State Academic Theatre of Opera and Ballet. While this New York Times piece may have been wrong about the first Mongolian Opera, it probably does have some quality reporting on other Mongolian operas and the activities of this important theatre that could be used to expand that article and could be used in your article on Mongolian theatre. Best.4meter4 (talk) 14:07, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
Hello, and welcome to the December 2023 newsletter, a quarterly digest of Guild activities since September. Don't forget that you can unsubscribe at any time; see below.
Election news: The Guild needs coordinators! If you'd like to help out, you may nominate yourself or any suitable editor—with their permission—for the Election of Coordinators for the first half of 2024. Nominations will close at 23:59 on 15 December (UTC). Voting begins immediately after the close of nominations and closes at 23:59 on 31 December. All editors in good standing (not under current sanctions) are eligible, and self-nominations are welcome. Coordinators normally serve a six-month term that ends at 23:59 on 30 June.
Drive: Of the 69 editors who signed up for the September Backlog Elimination Drive, 40 copy-edited at least one article. Between them, they copy-edited 661,214 words in 290 articles. Barnstars awarded are listed here.
Blitz: Of the 22 editors who signed up for the October Copy Editing Blitz, 13 copy-edited at least one article. Between them, they copy-edited 109,327 words in 52 articles. Barnstars awarded are listed here.
Drive: During the November Backlog Elimination Drive, 38 of the 58 editors who signed up copy-edited at least one article. Between them, they copy-edited 458,620 words in 234 articles. Barnstars awarded are listed here.
Progress report: As of 20:33, 10 December 2023 (UTC), GOCE copyeditors have processed 344 requests since 1 January, and the backlog stands at 2,191 articles.
Other news: Our Annual Report for 2023 is planned for release in the new year.
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Greetings, AirshipJungleman29. You are receiving this notification because you've agreed to consider endorsing prospective admin candidates identified by the process outlined at Administrators without tools. Recently, the following editor(s) received this distinction and the associated endearing title:
Greetings, AirshipJungleman29. You are receiving this notification because you've agreed to consider endorsing prospective admin candidates identified by the process outlined at Administrators without tools. Recently, the following editor(s) received this distinction and the associated endearing title:
I put it on hold some time ago, and then declined the GAN as nothing was occurring. I probably should have released the hold first. Do you have rights to clean this up, it still shows on the GAN page. Thanks. Ldm1954 (talk) 15:29, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
"the following are usually not linked: ... The names of subjects with which most readers will be at least somewhat familiar
"Muslim", "Buddhists", "Central Asia", for example.
WP:Cite book#Publisher: Publishers should be unlinked unless especially relevant. There is no benefit to linking references to large generalist publishers.
Please let me know where you got the "especially" from at WP:Cite book#Publisher, and what even defines "relevant". WP:NOTDICT has no bearing on linking, and "Muslim, Buddhists, and Central Asia" are all rather relevant concepts to the article. Reviewing WP:MINOR shows that you were correct about your usage, so apologies for that, I have removed some links from the article, while the retained spellings are period-appropriate. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 20:20, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
Yes, terms such as Muslims etc, are relevant to the article (otherwise why would they be there at all?) but that doesn't mean that they should be linked. WP:OVERLINK even has "Islam" " and "Buddhism" as specific examples of what not to link.
Don't quibble: try explaining how it's useful to link, for example, Blackwell Publishing. the purpose of a citation is to allow the reader to identify the source of a statement in the article. Linking the publisher (except in rare special cases) does not help with that.
What do you mean by "period appropriate"? Other editors have decided that "Khalakhaljid" is the preferred spelling for a battle that took place over 800 years ago. If you disagree with that, take it up over at that article. Colonies Chris (talk) 20:36, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
There is an important distinction to be made here. The *fact" that the merchants were Muslim is directly relevant. But that fact does not require or justify a wikilink. WP:OVERLINK again:
A good question to ask yourself is whether reading the article you're about to link to would help someone understand the article you are linking from.
And a similar consideration applies to linking the publisher - is the link helpful to the reader? The default is always to not link. We add links when - and only when - they are likely to help a reader understand the article or, in the case of a citation, to help them locate the source. This is a discussion that was settled more thah a decade ago. Colonies Chris (talk) 21:43, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
"This is a discussion that was settled more thah a decade ago" – well I've done hundreds of WP source reviews, and some people link publishers, others don't You can have an opinion on that matter, but to suggest there is a widely followed norm is complete nonsense. Wikipedia has no strict source formatting rules, so the only thing that matters is consistency for individual pages: all publishers linked, none linked, or only linked for their first mentions. If you are going around enforcing your own preferences on an already consistently formatted page, that is the definition of a WP:CITEVAR violation. Aza24 (talk)22:52, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
I'm going to repeat myself, The question we should always ask when considering whether to link is "Is this link likely to be useful to the reader?". And in the case of publishers in citations, the answer is almost always "no". Look at ((Cite book#Publisher)). It says "Publisher: May be wikilinked if relevant". This statement implies that not linking is the norm. Just being the publisher is not sufficient in itself to justify a link. In my 18 years as a WP editor I've worked on thousands of articles, and I can confirm that not linking publishers is indeed the norm. There was a long and heated debate about overlinking a decade ago, and the upshot was that linking should be selective, only where it is clearly helpful, not scattershot. Colonies Chris (talk) 23:54, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
It says "Publisher: May be wikilinked if relevant". and I'm deciding it's relevant. Sorry, your implications, confirmations, and vague gestures at decade-old discussions aren't convincing. Now, the question you should always ask when considering whether to change a citation style is "is this a breach of WP:CITEVAR?". And in this case, the answer is "yes". ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:37, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
Re "The default is always to not link. We add links ... This is a discussion that was settled more than a decade ago"; I don't recall seeing that anywhere, but if you're changing the established WP:CITEVAR on an article, and the citation style links publishers, that's a problem. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 05:25, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
WP:CITEVAR is all about citation styles, and makes it clear that this means not changing between, for example, APA style and ASA style. Linking or not linking publisher is not part of a style in that sense - it's a simple matter of whether the link is likely to be useful - the same test that applies to linking in general. Most readers don't look at the refs at all, and those who do are most likely wanting to verify a specific statement that they find surprising or questionable. A publisher link, especially to a large generalist publisher, is not helpful for that purpose. In general, for any possible link, there's always someone who will say that they find it useful, but we don't link on that basis, that would lead to linking everything. That's what the overlinking debate a decade ago was all about: it was definitively resolved on the side of smart linking, not a scattershot approach.
I suspected as much :-) No apologies needed, I use Twinkle all the time and something like this happens to us all. I wouldn't remove the notification, some page watchers might want to honor him by taking this on. Perhaps you could add a note in this sense. Cheers! --Randykitty (talk) 08:43, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
Hi Johnjbarton, recent discussions over the use of ((WikiProject Banner Shell)) have led to consensus that WikiProject article ratings should be generally standardised; to make this happen, the template has been adapted so that a general rating (the |class=GA in the banner shell) applies to all projects. If you scroll to the bottom, you'll find that the articles are not "in limbo", but belonging to their correct categories (e.g. Hilbert space is present in Category:GA-Class physics articles of High-importance).
Voting for the WikiProject Military History newcomer of the year and military historian of the year awards for 2023 is now open!
Voting is now open for the WikiProject Military History newcomer of the year and military historian of the year awards for 2023! The the top editors will be awarded the coveted Gold Wiki . Cast your votes vote here and here respectively. Voting closes at 23:59 on 30 December 2023. On behalf of the coordinators, wishing you the very best for the festive season and the new year. Hawkeye7 (talk·contribs) via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:55, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
Disputed non-free use rationale for File:Statue of Muqali (Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia).jpg
Thank you for uploading File:Statue of Muqali (Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia).jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale provided for using this file on Wikipedia may not meet the criteria required by Wikipedia:Non-free content. This can be corrected by going to the file description page and adding or clarifying the reason why the file qualifies under this policy. Adding and completing one of the templates available from Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your file is in compliance with Wikipedia policy. Please be aware that a non-free use rationale is not the same as an image copyright tag; descriptions for files used under the non-free content policy require both a copyright tag and a non-free use rationale.
If it is determined that the file does not qualify under the non-free content policy, it might be deleted by an administrator seven days after the file was tagged in accordance with section F7 of the criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions, please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.
Also:
File:Statue of Bo'orchu in Ulaanbaatar Mongolia.jpg
Hello, the Chinese Legalism article is under construction (previously I had it constituted of the figures, but the idea was to leave the larger figure articles to their figure articles). I will try to streamline the writing, since you left the tag, let me know if you otherwise have a particular critique. Keeping in mind that it is of course under construction.FourLights (talk) 07:14, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
Given that the page needs more work regardless, I hope you might find time to consider the section Creel's branches of the Fajia, which I have assembled into an introduction, if you find time to comment whether you find it contextual, or otherwise too detailed. Or if the section "the morality of Han Fei" should be left to the Han Feizi page or not at all; I intend to create a Shang Yang related section, whose figure is a stand in (they are intended to be general sections, not figure sections). Thanks. I do appreciate your having visited to provide an updated critique in the form of the tag if nothing else, the previous tag calling for an "expert" would have suggested that I simply have no idea what I am talking about. Suffice to say, while others assist with minor edits, I am it's responsible writer.FourLights (talk) 17:31, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
Hey there, wanted to reach out to ask if you'd be interested in taking a look at the Israeli citizenship law currently at FAC? Trying to get some movement on it since the review's been sitting around for a while. No pressure either way if you're too busy but thank you again for your support in promoting previous articles. Thanks, Horserice (talk) 03:12, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
Hi there! Thanks so much for promoting my DYK nomination for Jamie Kalven earlier this year. I've just submitted the article for FAC. I'm not sure if you ever review FACs, but I wanted you to be aware. Cheers! Edge3 (talk) 05:09, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
A long time ago, you said the Mars Society article is not up to FAC standards yet. I've made several attempts to polish the prose and ensure text-source integrity, but, unfortunately, the article is still pretty short as it is hard to find additional sources on the topic. What do you think about the article now? (link to article) CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 13:45, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
Hey there, can you explain moving these articles to draft space? Both articles have references, but the size of them prevents them from displaying correctly. Onetwothreeip (talk) 08:28, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
The content can be verified by the external link at the bottom of the article. You should also notify the author of the content that this has occurred (I am not the author). Onetwothreeip (talk) 22:44, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
You should probably add an explanation to your comment before a bunch of people notice it. It's best practice, and it avoids a bunch of people having to ask for more details. –MJL‐Talk‐☖06:15, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
Greetings, AirshipJungleman29. You are receiving this notification because you've agreed to consider endorsing prospective admin candidates identified by the process outlined at Administrators without tools. Recently, the following editor(s) received this distinction and the associated endearing title:
You made claims on the Milan Tepić talk page without reading the sources, so can you point out to me where those six of them are in the article? As you claim hey are very clearly verifiable—all that is required is reading them, but nothing like that exist. So can you copy paste parts of article that says that? Kanikosen (talk) 22:13, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
Kanikosen, "while in Croatia he is perceived as a war criminal", "The soldier, Major Milan Tepic, is seen by the Croatian side as a criminal," etc. I see on the talk page that you think the word "significant" is used in the article, which is incorrect, and that you think only two people made a fuss—clearly disproven by this source, which outlines the response of the Croatian Foreign Ministry, Croatian media, and Bosnian media. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:27, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
So why did you write about 6 sources? To quote Since you seem unfamiliar with WP:NPOV, let me cite directly from it: "Avoid the temptation to rephrase biased or opinion statements with weasel words, for example, "Many people think John Doe is the best baseball player." Which people? How many? ("Most people think" is acceptable only when supported by at least one published survey.)"
In your own source Many Croatian media, but also some in neighbouring Bosnia and Herzegovina, condemned the installation of the Tepic statue. What media? Did you read any source in Croatian, yes or no?
And In article In Croatia he is considered a war criminal stated as a fact. Not a single source you claim we need to read mention that. Kanikosen (talk) 22:35, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
That's quite funny, Kanikosen. The first of my quotes above reads "while in Croatia he is perceived as a war criminal"; now you say "not a single source you claim we need to read mentions that In Croatia he is considered a war criminal". Perhaps you are having difficulty with the words "considered" and "perceived"? It may interest you to learn that they are synonyms—two words that mean the same thing!
What media? Did you read any source in Croatian, yes or no? I don't think you quite understand my English—perhaps this is my fault, and if so I apologise. This is the a quote from a reliable source, not from me. Lastly, your quote from WP:NPOV isn't really relevant, since we have the Croatian Foreign Ministry stating it for us. If you have a problem, please consult the NPOV noticeboard. Hope that helps, ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:47, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
In other words you didn't read single source in Croatian you claim is reliable? I understand. And Croatian Foreign Ministry represents opinion of entire Croatian population? That is new, you have reliable source for that? Kanikosen (talk) 03:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
In other words you didn't read single source in Croatian you claim is reliable? I understand. Thank you, Kanikosen.
No, he represented Croatia Kanikosen. You seem obsessed by this idea that every Croat must have the same viewpoint, for whatever reason. The article does not say that, I have not said that, you are the only one who has said that, and you focus all your words on attacking this imaginary strawman. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:43, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
No, that is what you wrote. To quote what you defending In Croatia he is considered a war criminal . So why are you doing that? Kanikosen (talk) 16:04, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
Ok, it is now very clear you do not understand the English language. First you say "In Croatia he is considered a war criminal" is not the same as "In Croatia he is perceived as a war criminal." Now you say "In Croatia he is considered a war criminal" means "every inhabitant of Croatia considers him a war criminal." We are approaching clear WP:CIR territory Kanikosen, so I would advise you to WP:DROPTHESTICK before you get blocked from more than one page. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:35, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
Could you sustain from WP:NPA? You didn't read what is written in article or in 6 sources you claimed to read?
You made a claim ''There are six of them in the article. They are very clearly verifiable—all that is required is reading them, which you have clearly not done, as you think "there is only one reference presented". If what you think is that a survey of the Croatian populace would disprove them, you can wait until such a survey is done.''
Peace is a state of balance and understanding in yourself and between others, where respect is gained by the acceptance of differences, tolerance persists, conflicts are resolved through dialog, people's rights are respected and their voices are heard, and everyone is at their highest point of serenity without social tension. Happy Holidays to you and yours. Always a pleasure to see your work. ―Buster7☎
Hello AirshipJungleman29, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2024. Happy editing, Jerium (talk) 16:59, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
Please do not attack other editors, as you did at Gologmine. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. You appear to hounding another user "Gologmine". That would a violation agains community rules WP:HOUND. Next time it would be brought to admin discussion. Thank you.Gologmine (talk) 02:53, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
Merry Christmas, AirshipJungleman29! Wishing you Season's Greetings and a Happy Winter Solstice! As the year comes to a close, I want to express my appreciation for your dedicated efforts on Wikipedia and extend heartfelt thanks for your assistance throughout the years. May the holiday season bring you and your loved ones abundant joy, good health, and prosperity.
– robertsky (talk) is wishing you Happy Holidays! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user Happy Holidays, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!
Spread the cheer by adding ((subst:Happy holidays)) to their talk page with a friendly message.
Thank you today for Tolui, introduced: "Three million deaths in two sieges in two and a bit months; the mass rape of an enemy army; extraordinary military achievements; dying in a shamanic ritual to appease the curses of angered spirits; his wife and sons eventually ruling a continent... all these things were (allegedly) in a life and death's work for Tolui, the youngest son of Genghis Khan."! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:59, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
I heard from several people that they never heard of this composer. He was portrayed by Gainsborough which would give him notability. Please consider showing that image for DYK. Today, we have the image of Bach that everyone knows already ;) The other one is much better ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:07, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
The trouble is Gerda Arendt it's an extremely dull hook—it basically says the same thing twice and follows it up with a fairly mediocre fact. The current picture slot in that prep is also not very interesting, but it doesn't make me fall asleep.
By contrast, the Wie liegt die Stadt so wüst hook is pretty much the opposite—it is so very interesting and evocative to everyone, that I am seriously considering ignoring the fact it violates WP:DYKIMG and putting it in the picture slot... ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:18, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
The hook was based on the image creating the attention: great painter, great dog. - The man was - together with Bach's son - the concert organizer in London, a celebrity, and then forgotten. Can we help him to some attention around his 300th birthday? What hook would you suggest? Should we name the more than 100 newly found compositions? - The one promoted ran on the German Wikipedia, 5k+ views, with the image. Of course the "Wie liegt die Stadt so wüst" is stronger, but do we have to mention a war to be "interesting"? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:28, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
We are helping him to some attention Gerda Arendt, although I doubt he'll care very much. Some articles just don't make strong hooks, and I see no problem with that. The "Wie liegt die Stadt so wüst" hook isn't interesting because of the Dresden mention, but because of what it says. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:00, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
I am sorry, it's way past midnight here, and I feel that I can't express well what I mean: the hook is not about the composer but about the catalogue which is an outstanding work of research and diligence. It helps to establish the notability of the book's subject, and the painting does that better than the anniversary which is past anyway. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:08, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
Gerda Arendt, I don't have the authority to unilaterally approve and promote a new hook. It is simply a sad fact that not all hooks nominated with images can be promoted with them, because there isn't the space. If you want to take this further, please make a request at WT:DYK. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:42, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
The process would not be sustainable if every potential image hook that didn't run with an image got to be depromoted indefinitely because their nominators asked Gerda Arendt. Please make a request at WT:DYK for uninvolved opinions. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:08, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
I don't think you understood that I just tried to keep things simpler. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Now, after the holidays, I have to deal with three articles of people who recently died, - more important than someone whose birthday was 300 years ago. I thought it would be so easy to have the great image of Abel on the Main page for his birthday, and asked OTD. No, I was told, we don't do blurbs for birthdays, and we don't do images for OTD without blurb. So I tried DYK. Missed the chance as discussed. I tried to explain that this isn't "every potential image" but one that I saw as I chance that will perhaps not return in my lifetime. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:23, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
The article Genghis Khan you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Genghis Khan for comments about the article, and Talk:Genghis Khan/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article has never appeared on the Main Page as a "Did you know" item, and has not appeared within the last year either as "Today's featured article", or as a bold link under "In the news" or in the "On this day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear at DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On this day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Borsoka -- Borsoka (talk) 06:02, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
Hello, AirshipJungleman29. I've nominated this article for DYK, and we need to promptly address the tags you added. Please either edit them yourself or provide suggestions on how we can resolve this issue. Thank you.–Owais Al Qarni (talk) 16:57, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
Greetings, AirshipJungleman29. You are receiving this notification because you've agreed to consider endorsing prospective admin candidates identified by the process outlined at Administrators without tools. Recently, the following editor(s) received this distinction and the associated endearing title:
Please do not de-promote the hooks based on WP:DYKBOTTOMPREP: it is only a guideline. Occasionally I or others will fill certain hook-slots in the last prep set as appropriate hooks are found and reviewed. We have room to move hooks within sets by filling other slots and there are were three empty spots in the last set. Thanks for considering and Happy holidays! Bruxton (talk) 18:17, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
I understand the concerns about the last prep. My greater point is that it is abrupt to revert someone's work without discussion. Prior to promoting a hook I do quite a bit of checking, and with an image I have to check for license and FOP. I also see how many queue spots are available so that an admin can promote a set to queue to make and free up a new empty set. It is an unpleasant surprise to me when I am reverted without any message or ping. I only noticed this revert because the nominator pinged me to discuss question about the word "Filipino". I think the best practice is to discuss with the editor. I am glad to work with you and glad to know you. Your work in DYK is much appreciated. Bruxton (talk) 18:54, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
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Happy New Year and Happy New WikiCup! The 2024 competition has just begun and all article creators, expanders, improvers and reviewers are welcome to take part. Even if you are a novice editor you should be able to advance to at least the second round, improving your editing skills as you go. If you have already signed up, your submissions page can be found here. If you have not yet signed up, you can add your name here and the judges will set up your submissions page ready for you to take part. Any questions on the scoring, rules or anything else should be directed to one of the judges, or posted to the WikiCup talk page. Signups will close on 31 January, and the first round will end on 26 February; the 64 highest scorers at that time will move on to round 2. The judges for the WikiCup this year are: Cwmhiraeth (talk·contribs·email), Epicgenius (talk·contribs·email), and Frostly (talk·contribs·email). Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove your name from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:21, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
Henry C. Berghoff
I noticed that you rated Henry C. Berghoff as C-class. I was wondering, what about it needs editing? I realize it’s not the best article, and I’d like to refine it. I’m just not certain what specifically makes it in need of editing. Henry Berghoff (talk) 05:00, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
Should the paragraphs in the lead have citation? Also, is it okay if I put a citation for multiple sentences at the end of a paragraph? Henry Berghoff (talk) 00:42, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
Also, I don’t understand why sources from a hundred years ago could not be used, since they provide good documentation of Berghoff and his life. Henry Berghoff (talk) 00:43, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
The article The Mongol Khan you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:The Mongol Khan for comments about the article, and Talk:The Mongol Khan/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article has never appeared on the Main Page as a "Did you know" item, and has not appeared within the last year either as "Today's featured article", or as a bold link under "In the news" or in the "On this day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear at DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On this day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Frzzl -- Frzzl (talk) 20:40, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
A pie for you!
Thanks for updating Wikipedia:WikiCup/Scoring and helping out with a few questions on the WikiCup talk page. I completely forgot about the scoring updates, and so did the other judges, so I just wanted to say that your efforts are appreciated. Epicgenius (talk) 18:09, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
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The one you just promoted at DYK is 204 characters, so needs to be under 200. that while state senator George C. Brownell played no part in the Oregon land fraud scandal, a published cartoon (pictured) showed him as the "Pretty Moth" that flew too close to the land fraud limelight? Lightburst (talk) 18:42, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
The word "pictured" was also in the 204 character count. I just checked in our DYKCRIT it says: The eleven characters in a (pictured) tag does not count, but any modifying text does. so this was my mistake! Thanks, I think the trim is ok too. Lightburst (talk) 18:49, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
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Hello! I want very much to take you up on your offer of help taking this article to FA. What should I do first? Recheck sources? Please don't say cut it down! Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:21, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
Oh dear Jenhawk777, you may know me too well. I do suspect some concision would be useful, but I would also consult others. You should open up a page at WP:PR; I will try to get some experienced editors, in addition to me, to offer you advice. Be warned: achieving FA will be difficult, especially as the article is very broad and you are (I believe) a first time nominator, and so the sources will have to be in tip-top condition. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:23, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
So I went and read the article at the signpost, and it was helpful. I am doing what he says and have now requested a formal peer review aimed at taking this article to FA status.
I know the article is long, but it is a big topic. It already not only summarizes whole centuries, it outright skips all kinds of things - and they are not unimportant. It's very frustrating. More details could no doubt be excluded, but it is already impacting the comprehensiveness of the article imo. If you see something you think could be communicated equally well with less, please, please tell me! I think I get blind after awhile... Jenhawk777 (talk) 21:40, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
The article Siege of Baghdad (1258) you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Siege of Baghdad (1258) for comments about the article, and Talk:Siege of Baghdad (1258)/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article has never appeared on the Main Page as a "Did you know" item, and has not appeared within the last year either as "Today's featured article", or as a bold link under "In the news" or in the "On this day" prose section, you can nominate it within the next seven days to appear at DYK. Bolded names with dates listed at the bottom of the "On this day" column do not affect DYK eligibility. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Sawyer-mcdonell -- Sawyer-mcdonell (talk) 02:21, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
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Hi, I have nominated the article Sam Manekshaw for FA (link to nom) and would love to get your inputs. Your comments on the GA review for Rajiv Malhotra were very valuable, I'm halfway through those suggestions. I would love to get similar feedback from you on this latest nom and you can also shore up some sweet WikiCup points. Thanks in advance. Matarisvan (talk) 12:34, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
Oversection
Hello gain AirshipJungleman29, I am not a fan of turning articles into one paragraph stubs with an interpretation of WP:OVERSECTION. I prefer that unrelated ideas and paragraphs are in appropriate sections. They make the separate ideas easier to find. Bruxton (talk) 03:35, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
Bruxton, I am interested in how hard you find it to read through three paragraphs to find "separate ideas". As it stands, more than half of the "Legend" section is not in fact deficated to any legend, and a large part of the "description" section, which you might expect to be describing the stone itself, is actually describing a trail.
I would thus suggest to make "separate ideas easier to find", creating the sections "Tourism" and "Weather", and transferring information appropriately.
In any case, if it looks like a stub without sections, then I am sorry to say that it is a stub, and trying to hide that fact does a disservice to the article, your integrity, and readers' intelligence. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 04:19, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
I am saddened that my integrity is questioned by a colleague over this sectioning issue. A stub is an article too short and incomplete to provide encyclopedic coverage of a subject. A stub also does not qualify for DYK. But I do not think Hanging Stone is incomplete and I think sections are helpful for our readers. I can see that you often invoke oversection like on this other DYK article: Phyllis Boyens but the sections were restored by an admin. I helped with the Boyens article so I saw this. We all have different styles so I thank you for considering and I hope that we can always discuss changes in the future. Bruxton (talk) 14:59, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
Thank you for joining the drive, especially because there's so many conflict and military-related articles that are not cited at all. I guess that 100 articles cited is a breeze for you then :-) CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 19:39, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
As you know, the 2023 picture is from the Abel Fest in Köthen, celebrating the tercentenary of Carl Friedrich Abel, a viol virtuoso, composer and concert organiser in London (together with Bach's youngest son), born on 22 December 1723 in Köthen, where the new catalogue of his works was introduced, - my story today. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:25, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
I have a DYK on the Main page as you better than anybody else, but my story would be different, about Figaro, - this Figaro. The conductor described it as entertaining, - please check, singer and conductor can be seen commenting and in action. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:04, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
Thanks Gerda Arendt. I still do believe that the current hook is superior: it shows the subject's determination and exemplifies a strong character. Many of my words yesterday, however, were intemperate and rude; I have struck them on WT:DYK, and I sincerely apologise for crossing the line. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:18, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
Thank you for the striking. - As you may know I was determined at the beginning of 2023 to leave DYK at all, because its arguments had become a drain on my limited time. I sort of returned because I noticed that topics I want people to know about had too little presence on the Main page (90 entries for 2023 in DYK Germany, vs. 204 in 2022, for example). I have no time to argue right now - with a GA review waiting for my expansions of the article - but beg you to consider that coming from Korea to a lead role at a leading house in Europe also shows determination and character strength, and adds by a few words (Mozart's Figaro) how his voice sounds like, which is desirable from my point of view, while "bass-baritone performer" is vague, almost misleading (as explained earlier) and no professional wording, - opera people just say "bass-baritone". I searched on the English Wikipedia for "baritone performer", and found 2 occurrences, one being the Main page. - DYK that about the best advice I ever received was ignore ignore ignore? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:13, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
Immigrating succesfully to a different country is certainly a praiseworthy act—my family knows that very well. If you wanted to get that from the hook, however, you had to look at it sideways. DYK does not have the time to be subtle. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:53, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
Back from rehearsal, little time: I don't "want to get" something from hooks, - I want to tell something, and am aware that it may mean something to some and nothing to others, and readership is so mixed that trying to find something that will mean something to all limits way to much what can be told, thus being in the way of variety which is a written goal of DYK. Wie liegt die Stadt so wüst was written in memory of our performance bringing a century of violence to a close, sung by Belgians and Germans in reconciliation. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:45, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
The variety at DYK come from the articles, not from the hooks (WP:DYKAIM: "the variety of information on Wikipedia... the range of material that Wikipedia covers". Any hook that is intentionally meaningless to some is explicitly contrary to DYK's guidelines (WP:DYKINT, emphasis not mine: "The hook should be likely to be perceived as unusual or intriguing by readers with no special knowledge or interest."), and you have my assurance that I will never approve or promote such a hook. In the case of this article, we found something that could be interesting to all. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 21:54, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
We will have to disagree about variety then, because I still believe that the better hooks are those reflecting the focus of an article, and they would lead to greater variety of what we say, leading to more knowledge, which I still think is the key of Did you know? - Thank you for promoting three of my hooks today if I counted right. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:52, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
New day: I think there's a difference between "intentionally meaningless" and the insight that we can't help that things will mean different things to different people. I also think that - up to a certain point - I have been open to finding something more interesting together, and I offer to start right here in the future, discussing possibilities before even nominating, I mean. - On the Main page: the person who made the pictured festival possible --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:49, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
ps: you put two of "my" hooks in prep 3 - can you please move one? - Of the positive reactions to Fritzsch yesterday, the two users who actually listened touched me most (Storye book and Carlstak). For me, better two people listen than 2000 click and return. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:22, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
If you really want to change it, you'll have to ask an admin, but I think it's fine currently—they don't overlap, and there's no rule saying it has to be only one hook per editor per set. I know I've promoted two from the same editor before. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 21:07, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
Soprano Tamara Milashkina is on the Main page, and I summarised in today's story. The RD appearance will get her a 5-digit viewcount over the days, I guess. I have to decide if I'll put more effort into it (length or GA) to make it DYK also. I would if I knew that any from the story would be acceptable, but not if in the end we say that she was a librarian before she became a singer, - not fair to her very specific achievements, and a waste of my lifetime. Thoughts? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:16, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Gerda Arendt, perhaps something on how a Soviet soprano performed alongside her husband in New York in 1975? There are two interesting "subhooks" there: 1) obviously there is the unusual idea of performing alongside your spouse, and 2) there is also the Cold War undertone, which most will be familiar with. What do you think? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 20:19, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Thank you for thinking! You can propose an alt, - I expanded, thinking that today was the day that people would look, and it was long enough sooner than I thought. I arrived at the same 1975 performances but without the husband ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:38, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
I tried to include the husband, but ...
The image is only of her.
The other image - of one of the operas performed, which I like - shows her with a man she loves (in the opera) but that's not her husband. This image is featured in Tchaikowsky's biography, btw. It doesn't show well in stamp size.
The public liked her husband better.
I'd like to pass the information on the side that there was a large-scale exchange between the companies, not just individual singers, - 3 productions, husband and wife performing in 2 of those. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:48, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Hi Vanderwaalforces, DYK receives two to three image nominations for every slot available, meaning that around 55% of nominations have to be promoted without an image. Sadly, this is a judgement call by promoters. I hope you understand. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:43, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
Why do we need compulsory in the hook? All he said was that telling who was black was a problem of mass testing. He did not say it was a problem of compulsory testing specifically. This change has made the hook worse and put a different spin on his words that was not there before. Please change it back. Philafrenzy (talk) 22:01, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
GA review
Hello AirshipJungleman29, I hope you're well! WikiEditor1234567123 and I recently expanded the article Nazran okrug and nominated it to become a GA. I was wondering if you'd be interested in reviewing it, as a reviewer of one of my previous GA's which is similar. Thank you! Best, – Olympianloquere07:49, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
You have nominated tis article for good article review recently. I want to help this article can keep its status, but am very busy with off-wiki things. When is the deadline for the review? Thanks, Jakob.scholbach (talk) 15:36, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
OK, thanks, this sounds doable -- I will try to allocate some time to it here and then. The content substance of the article is, I'm convinced, still at GA level, and the reference requests are in principle easy to implement. I may consider some other minor reorganizational edits in the process. Jakob.scholbach (talk) 18:19, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
Hey there, thanks for your edits to Pioneer helmet. I just wanted to explain my reversion, as your edits were understandable and well intentioned. The uncited sources were used in a previous section, which was unfortunately removed this edit. I've been meaning to add that section back, though have been distracted by other work. I'll try to get to this on the sooner side, lest any similar confusion arise. --Usernameunique (talk) 19:06, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
Notice of neutral point of view noticeboard discussion
This award is given in recognition to AirshipJungleman29 for collecting at least 5 points during the January 2024 NPP backlog drive. Your contributions played a part in the 16,070 reviews completed during the drive. Thank you so much for taking part and contributing to help reduce the backlog! Hey man im josh (talk) 22:45, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
OTD
Countering your point of "main page is based on article quality not relevance": yes, I mentioned that. The article for the Battle of Stalingrad is pretty well written.
Countering your point of "we need diversity in article topic": There isn't a single battle listed on the February 2nd OTD, I fail to see how that would be a problem. KommanderChicken (talk) 03:07, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
Hello, I am afraid I only just noticed your comment in a peer review done on the Chinese Legalism page. While I've retracted some work to the sandbox, and I would not suggest more work is not needed in general to streamline and simplify, you mentioned the encyclopedia britannica, which contains a basic three elements view. I have put together a basic three elements view myself, which I admit is not basic but instead a completely comprehensive overview including it's broader academic history. It is only presently lacking in that it does not include every example of it to ever occur. If you would like to provide feedback, then thanks.
I could certainly streamline it more later but will require significant work and sources seeing as it's broader examples merely crib the Oxford with it's past references.FourLights (talk) 17:36, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
Greetings, AirshipJungleman29. You are receiving this notification because you've agreed to consider endorsing prospective admin candidates identified by the process outlined at Administrators without tools. Recently, the following editor(s) received this distinction and the associated endearing title:
And just saw your note at my talk - double thanks! My first barnstar, I really hit the big leagues now! Thanks again and cheers, Seltaeb Eht (talk) 05:36, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
WikiCup 2024 February newsletter
The 2024 WikiCup is off to a flying start, with 135 participants. This is the largest number of participants we have seen since 2017.
Our current leader is newcomer Generalissima (submissions), who has one FA on John Littlejohn (preacher) and 10 GAs and 12 DYKs mostly on New Zealand coinage and Inuit figures. Here are some more noteworthy scorers:
As a reminder, competitors may submit work for the first round until 23:59 (UTC) on 27 February, and the second round starts 1 March. Remember that only the top 64 scoring competitors will make it through to the second round; currently, competitors need at least 15 points to progress. If you are concerned that your nomination will not receive the necessary reviews, and you hope to get it promoted before the end of the round, please list it on Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews. However, please remember to continue to offer reviews at GAN, FAC and all the other pages that require them to prevent any backlogs which could otherwise be caused by the Cup. As ever, questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup and the judges (Cwmhiraeth (talk·contribs), Epicgenius (talk·contribs), and Frostly (talk·contribs)) are reachable on their talk pages. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove your name from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:57, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
Welcome to the drive!
Welcome, welcome, welcome AirshipJungleman29! I'm glad that you are joining the
drive! Please, have a cup of WikiTea, and go cite some articles.
Hi there. Would it be possible, when delisting a good article, to change the assessment to B-class rather than leaving it completely unassessed? For example, here. You seem to be using a script to make these edits, so I will also notify @User:Novem Linguae. Best wishes — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:50, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
(talk page stalker)@MSGJ: A lot of delisted GAs won't be B-class, and having them re-assessed, rather than automatically classified as B-class would be more appropriate. In fact, in the linked example, I would not say that article is B-class, as there are a lot of unsupported claims, which in my view would make it C-class at best. Harrias(he/him) •talk11:53, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
You are of course welcome to re-assess these as you think appropriate. But B-class is one level down from GA, so I think this should be the default for a delisted GA. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:54, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
Well perhaps we should discuss this somewhere more visible? I strongly disagree. The onus is on the editor removing an assessment to add a new assessment, otherwise you are just creating a maintenance task for other editors and polluting valuable tracking data for WikiProjects. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:02, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
MSGJ, I normally re-rate delisted good articles afterwards, but sometimes I forget, so my apologies for that. To address your question, I agree with Harrias; many delisted GAs are not B-class, but C or even start-class. There should be no such thing as a "default" fallback, just as how delisted FAs are not considered GAs even if they previously passed the latter process. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:01, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
Ah, no worries. The same reasoning as above: there is no reason to believe that an article delisted from a formal assessment process will meet the one just below it. There have been both FAs and GAs of so low quality that people haven't even bothered with reassessment and gone straight to AfD (I did that once). ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:20, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
Surely reverting to its previous state when it was listed as GA/FA would be a better course of action than deleting?? I'm not saying these cases do not exist, I'm just suggesting that the default position should be one class lower unless an editor actively chooses to demote further. Removing the whole assessment seems unhelpful — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:22, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
I agree with the folks here that no rating is better than an incorrect rating. With the current workflow, the articles end up in one of the Category:Unassessed articles subcategories, then gnomes can fix the ratings at their convenience, which seems reasonable to me. –Novem Linguae (talk) 19:54, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
Congratulations, AirshipJungleman29! The article you nominated, Hö'elün, has been promoted to featured status, recognizing it as one of the best articles on Wikipedia. The nomination discussion has been archived.This is a rare accomplishment and you should be proud. If you would like, you may nominate it to appear on the Main page as Today's featured article. Keep up the great work! Cheers, Gog the Mild (talk) via FACBot (talk) 00:05, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
Thank you today for Siege of Bukhara, introduced: "This is an incident during the Mongol invasion of Khwarazmia, where Genghis Khan spectacularly bypassed a static defensive strategy, forced one of Asia's greatest cities to surrender in a week, burnt the place down, enslaved most of the inhabitants, delivered a surprisingly theological speech, and naffed off to do more killing, burning, and enslaving. Very Genghis."! - Wish you joy on TFA day and on your Wikijourney! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:04, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
You promoted the article to prep, and replaced precise date and location by "a festival". Please self-revert. I am not permitted. -- Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:37, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
Yes Gerda Arendt. The DYK guidelines state "a lot of people who submit hooks tend to overestimate the amount of information that is required, but the end result is a hook that has too much information and is difficult to process." I see no reason why a precise date and location would help, same as for the first, seventh, and eighth hooks in that set. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 20:44, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
(edit conflict) So it was not enough reason. Sigh. I don't think it is "required", but that it helps people. If someone is a prime minister, would you say "a polititian" instead, thinking precision is not required? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:53, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
Taking a second look, I've trimmed the "an American heldentenor" bit, as it adds nothing to the hook and less than 0.1% of readers probably know what "heldentenor" means. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 20:47, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
(after edit conflict) I don't mind that. (I will never understand, however, why people are not expected to be curious enough to follow a link if they don't know a term.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:53, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
(edit conflict)If it is necessary for the hook, I would call them a "prime minister". If it isn't, I would call them "[their name]". I would not, however, call them "Prime Minister of New Zealand, 1975–1984", despite the fact that is indubitably more precise in terms of location and date.
The Bayreuth Festival is top of its line which to mention is not "neccessary" but gives his achievement a glamour that "a festival" doesn't carry. Why not? That this achievement was recent, not decades ago, adds to interest (I think), and that it happened the year before he died may add further interest (I think). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:21, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
Another 80th birthday remembered today, with a DYK OTD in 2020. I wonder if that (hook) would have been possible in 2024, - please teach me. (Side note: the article was written when I went over the legacy of Jerome Kohl, and there was this red link ...) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:41, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
What do you think of my 2010 hook? - Please let me know when you have time to discuss how different views on "interesting" could lead to a broader range of facts. (I thought you were busy.) - Having to deal with Alfred Grosser who worked towards friendship between former enemies, via better understanding of the others' position. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:52, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
I try to learn, and it's not about the 14-years-old, but general. I will not change my mind about liking music for musicians, and I will not change my mind about liking to mention in four words something transporting essential information. We have now in prep 2 a hook about a passionate singer, and mention two nationalities, a completely superflous city, her husband, and no music. I find it sad but have to deal with Seiji Ozawa and Helga Paris. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:30, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
By rushed, I mean that it was put in a queue 71 minutes after it was approved. It is probably more common for an article to sit in approved status 71 days than it is for it to be promoted within 71 minutes of being approved. In this case, there are two similarly themed (Campbell's Soup Cans series) articles that have been on the main page in recent months. I was thinking (05:07, 29 December 2023 (UTC) comment) it should be delayed until March or April (plus because of the WP:CUP, I would rather it be delayed. I believe I entered the cup after making this nomination so the suggestion was not related to my current preference.) and stated that it should be held until March or April. Note that one of the prior articles was similar enough to require a 5x-related character count adjustment for similarity. Plus 6 weeks is not that old for a DYK nomination.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:14, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
Your assumptions are not correct, TonyTheTiger. You are vastly overestimating your own nominations' importance—that two hooks ran in 2023 is irrelevant. We have had four hooks on Pulitzer-Prize winning photographs in the last month, and six hooks on the paintings of Amrita Sher-Gil since November. You are also incorrect in assuming that six weeks is "not that old" and that nominations sit approved for 71 days or more; in reality, nominations are routinely rejected when they are more than two months old, as this one would be. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:01, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
User:AirshipJungleman29 you are talking to me like I haven't submitted nearly 1000 nominations and reviewed hundreds. I know almost precisely how common it is for nominations to take much longer than 6 weeks and for a an approval to be promoted in 71 minutes. Regarding the former, I need go no further than Template:Did you know nominations/Campbell's Soup Cans II which was nominated September 23 and ran on December 23. I am not talking about assumptions. I may have had 1 or 2 nominations be rejected for age, but only because there were other difficulties with the nomination. Of my nearly 1000 nominations, none with an easily approved subject/article and hook has ever been rejected. Same for reviews. When you are dealing with six similarly themed nominations that are nominated closely, this will happen. I've had tightly bunched basketball, football and Lichtenstein articles. But when you have only 3 articles and the freedom to space them, why not do it?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:39, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
I would be surprised indeed if your previous nominations were rejected because of age TonyTheTiger, as consensus to take that course formed early this year. We have the freedom to space your nominations—they are two months apart. I still fail to see why you think a gap containing 70 sets and 560 hooks is not sufficient. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:29, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
My perception was that Template:Did you know nominations/Campbell's Soup Cans II was delayed as long as was reasonable to space it from Template:Did you know nominations/Campbell's Soup I (hence the 3 full month waiting period till DYK main page publication). I am of course unaware of any new consensus regarding stale nominations. I just felt that a December 29 nomination could reasonably be delayed 10 weeks for spacing. When WP:DYKNA has many older nominations than 12/29 many of which were approved, I thought a similar maximal spacing delay was in order for Template:Did you know nominations/Campbell's Soup Cans. If it also ran three months after it was nominated that would be March 29. I think even early March is appropriate spacing. I think it is likely to get more views the more it is spaced. It is not that big a deal, but a 71-minute promotion was totally shocking to me. I am sure you are doing your part to keep this ship running, but I just think more spacing on this topic is better since there is nothing else in the DYK pipeline on this subject.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:18, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
I count three assumptions.
1) "When WP:DYKNA has many older nominations than 12/29 many of which were approved"WP:DYKNA did not have any older non-biographical approved nomination with no issues at the time of promotion. I needed a non-biographical hook for WP:DYKVAR, so I chose the oldest one.
2) "My perception was that nom2 was delayed as long as was reasonable to space it from nom1 (hence the 3 full month waiting period till DYK main page publication)." As the person who promoted nom2, I can say that a desire to space nominations played absolutely no part in the delay to promote. I regret to tell you that we DYK volunteers do not in fact have an encyclopedic memory of all the hooks that have been promoted in the three prior months.
3) "I think it is likely to get more views the more it is spaced." this is statistically unprovable, but in my opinion, it is much more likely precisely the opposite. Recently we had two picture hooks on mid-century Pulitzer-prize winning photographs, run less than 48 hours apart. According to you we would expect a large drop in the view statistics of the second hook, but in fact it was almost identical to the first. Of course, you could argue that the second hook was more interesting than the first and should have received more views, but I don't think that very likely.
Although, I have never put a set together, I am vaguely aware of diversity pursuit on the main page and within DYK. If you were short non-bio noms, then I understand the need. That is a kind of situation that could easily result in a nom of moderate age being promoted abnormally soon after approval. My main issue was with the abnormally short promotion in the face of the expressed suggestion for delay. In terms of non-bio subjects, this is an important one and if it was the absolute oldest, it was a good choice. I understand your reasoning and have no reason to appeal further. Thanks for your efforts to promote diverse presentation on the main page. It is an important pursuit. 8 weeks between Campbell's Soup Can appearances is surely sufficient in the face of the disparity you describe.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:09, 9 February 2024 (UTC)