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The result was delete. Kafziel Complaint Department 06:14, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

GSnap[edit]

AfDs for this article:
GSnap (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Freeware knockoff software package which fails the relevant notability guidelines, lacks non-trivial coverage by third party pubs. JBsupreme (talk) 23:55, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep per consensus. And now the lecture. Of those opining for deletion, Aresef, Xiong, Echosmoke, and Terraxos were canvassed for their opinions by the nominator, before he got his account, see contributions. In addition to those, IP (as Againstreason)also canvassed Animate (who said "I'm Switzerland" on his talkpage and abstained from debate), IP canvassed Vkokilov and Stellis both of whom did not respond anywhere, Jossi who !voted merge/redirect below, and Richardveryard who !voted Weak Keep below. I consider the canvassing to be with the intention of swaying the !vote, even though the "talkpage messages" left by the IP were written as "since you participated on the talkpage of TomKat...". However, IP (AgainstReason) was selective, and did not leave the same message for those talkpage participants that showed interest in the article staying on Wikipedia. (most notably, Hmwith). I can find no evidence that canvassing occured with those that have opined to keep the article. Therefore, the !votes of those that were canvassed are in effect severely downgraded in weight and counted as "one opinion" (most didn't cite policy anyway, merely said WP:IDONTLIKEIT). The result of this debate is keep, with a trout to IP/AgainstReason to please let the community find consensus without disruption. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:30, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


TomKat[edit]

TomKat (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Pointless article which has no reason to exist outside a Tom Cruise or Katie Holmes article Againstreason (talk) 23:56, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hundreds of millions of households?? Really?? --RichardVeryard (talk) 10:53, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: I must also pont out that Againstreason loves to "pick on" articles that I have significantly improved, despite those articles being ten times better because of me, and he first showed up as an antagonizing IP...one instance being at the Bianca Montgomery article. The fact that he has now nominated this article for deletion, his first day as an official Wikipedia editor, as well as set out to nitpick the Supercouple article, leaves me in no doubt that this nomination is not a good-faith one. Flyer22 (talk) 22:45, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note. Flyer22 believes that anyone who dares critcises "her" articles are out to get her. Please keep this neutral and don't bring personal paranoia into this debate. 81.141.163.150 (talk) 11:43, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Additional note: Not true, IP. I work very well with others. It is no coincidence that you've gone after all these articles I work on. AfD is also about pointing out a nominator's suspicious behavior, if there is any. And I did that. Flyer22 (talk) 21:38, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. But that's the thing. Most of this stuff is not covered in their individual articles. If you notice, those articles have been formatted to accommodate this one. I was not even the one who did that. Other editors, who obviously saw/see no problem this article, did.
As for neologism, Wikipedia does not say that neologisms should never be on Wikipedia; it rather says that they should typically be avoided, but may sometimes be allowed in notable cases or where the neologism has become well-known. Well, TomKat is such as case as that. Flyer22 (talk) 15:11, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If it's drivel, then moving it somewhere else doesn't solve the problem. --RichardVeryard (talk) 10:53, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Would this argument also apply to War of the Waleses, which is an article on a royal supercouple, based largely on contemporary media sources? --RichardVeryard (talk) 14:18, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Here is a list of trivial, nonsense, or idiot topics which might somehow justify an encyclopedic article, any one of which might be a suitable home for any actual content salvaged from this rubbish bin:
TomKat does not even have a subject. Cruise is a person (loosely speaking); Holmes is a person. I grant that even their brat is a person. The infatuation of the drooling masses with famous people is a subject; cynical manipulation by PR agents is a subject; yellow journalism is a subject. But this article merely panders to the fiction that if we shout hard enough, we can create a two-headed beast and elevate it to independent stardom. That is not merely bullshit; it is bullshit contrived to serve a low commercial purpose.
Who is behind this article? I don't doubt that Cruise's PR firm and any number of reality-starved media outlets and the SeaOrg itself would be happy to pay editors to support this glurge. What I find revolting is that you're doing it for free. You should at least have the sense to get paid in cash.
Delete, murder, whack with an axe, burn and strew the ashes. Or keep it, if you like, so I can continue to amuse my friends by pointing them to the bellwether of Wikipedia's corruption, decline, and self-parody. — Xiong熊talk* 23:33, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. Kafziel Complaint Department 06:18, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Paul Petrino[edit]

Paul Petrino (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Aside from the nav template being much larger than the article, assistant coaches are not normally considered notable by Wikipedia:WikiProject College football and no other claims of notability are given aside from being the brother of the head coach. Also, there are no sources cited in the article.

I have no opinion - my edit was to give the page a category. Parkerdr (talk) 01:36, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Fabrictramp | talk to me 23:32, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:17, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ace of Base worldtour 2007 - 2009[edit]

Ace of Base worldtour 2007 - 2009 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

The article consists only of a promotional paragraph lifted from the Ace of Base website, and a list of tour dates. Phlegm Rooster (talk) 23:31, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep but needs to be completely rewrittenAgainstreason (talk) 23:57, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep. Kafziel Complaint Department 06:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Etana (musician)[edit]

Etana (musician) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Notability in regard to WP:MUSIC appears to be less than marginal; the lack of independent references does not help. Ecoleetage (talk) 13:18, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Davewild (talk) 21:08, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Concur with Gibb. —  BQZip01  —  talk 06:04, 4 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Fabrictramp | talk to me 23:28, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Change to Keep per User:Vickser, although article is in desperate need of a rewrite (and some sources!). BradV 01:36, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was IAR speedy delete as a GFDL violation. Blueboy96 00:58, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Indrit Sulaj[edit]

Indrit Sulaj (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

This article appears to be an attempt to sneak a spammy link into the encyclopedia. The text is copied from the article on Fier, except for the external link halfway down the page. The external link is for a web design company in Cleveland, Ohio. The site belongs to one Indrit Sulaj. - Eureka Lott 23:14, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Utter lack of reliable, independent third-party sources and minimal claim of notability. Kafziel Complaint Department 06:22, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Playdo AB[edit]

Playdo AB (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non notable website/online chat. No third party references. Has been nominated for speedy several times and the main recent contributor keeps removing the template. Mfield (talk) 22:06, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedily deleted as attack page. Fabrictramp | talk to me 22:17, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Charles nivens boogie[edit]

Charles nivens boogie (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Delete as non-notable dance with no sources. Contested prod. ... discospinster talk 22:03, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:19, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Aardvark (font)[edit]

Aardvark (font) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Not notable in any way. Seems to be something made in five minutes as a possible advertisment; I'm sure that's not the case, but it looks that way. I don't see any need for this on an encyclopedia. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 22:01, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep, per overwhelming consensus, before this gets to DW crazed. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:21, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Doctor Who 2008 Christmas special[edit]

Doctor Who 2008 Christmas special (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 22:17, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This article has been moved to The Next Doctor. SoWhy 13:14, 24 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. Kafziel Complaint Department 06:23, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Jesse Jamez[edit]

Jesse Jamez (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)
Get Creative Ep (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Artist has released no material and no sources are provided except his own myspace profile. Appears to be a vanity page that fails WP:MUSIC. ~ mazca t | c 21:44, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep per unanimity of responses. Non-admin closure by Skomorokh 03:25, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Best of the Best Championship Karate (video game)[edit]

Best of the Best Championship Karate (video game) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

This article was created several months ago, and absolutely nothing has been added. In addition, I feel that this is not notable enough of an article, nor was I able to find anything to suggest notability. MuZemike (talk) 21:41, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep: professional athletes are notable per WP:ATHLETE, no delete !votes to the contrary. Non-admin closure by Skomorokh 03:27, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Andrew "Danger" Davies[edit]

AfDs for this article:
Andrew "Danger" Davies (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

This man, while a professional darts player, is not a notable one, with little on him. He is not notable in the world of professional darts and does not meet Wikipedia's notability criteria. Scapler (talk) 21:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. Kurykh 17:29, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Gabriel Murphy[edit]

AfDs for this article:
Gabriel Murphy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Not notable, associated company aplus.net deleted due to lack of notability, been deleted twice before, recreated on very thin DRV process involving just three four people, one of which seems to have been Gabriel Murphy's sockpuppet (i.e. a Wikipedia:Autobiography). Article is not linked into the rest of the wikipedia, nor was the aplus.net article. Appears to be purely advertising for aplus.net and Gabriel Murphy. Article has seen very little traffic (see the traffic logs [7]), which supports vanity status, and complete lack of true encyclopedic notability.- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 21:33, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Please point out where the "purely advertising" portion of the article lies? Nearly all claims in the article are sourced. Please support your claim that this article constitutes "purely advertising"? You also claim the article has seen little traffic, but you use a traffic graph from February of this year, versus something more recent. The same program you link to show 352 views of the article in June. That aside, since when was the number of views in any way relevant to the status of an article?
That was probably you editing the article together. I used the traffic from February because that was the highest I could see it go. Feel free to point out any higher points here if you want. I honestly didn't look around too much. So June was a bit higher? That's still a very low hit rate. Most good articles get that per day, or per hour.- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 12:16, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Also, you make a very bold claim that the article was "recreated on very thin DRV process involving just three people, one of which seems to have been Gabriel Murphy's sockpuppet". You are correct that there were three people involved in the voting, those three users are lifebaka, Davewild and SmokeyJoe. Since you believe you are so righteous, please do tell the community which one of these three users is a sockpuppet account. My guess is you will not respond, as you know what you said is a pure lie used to prejudice the opinion of others by suggesting the deletion review process was “thin” (it lasted 5 full days) and one of the three aforementioned accounts is a sockpuppet, meaning the voting was not fair. Go ahead, name the sockpuppet for everyone- you know none of these accounts are sockpuppet. LakeBoater (talk) 15:23, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oh I miscounted, there were 4. The sockpuppet is you, and yes, you were involved. It was still a very quiet review; there was no evidence that anybody looked into anything in any real depth.- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 12:16, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The associated aplus.net deletion reviews are here:

All of which resulted in deletes; and this is the main claim for notability of this individual.- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 01:12, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Your suggestion that aplus.net is the "main claim for notability" is grossly inaccurate based on a simple reading of the article and is just another example of you trying to prejudice the opinion of others as you clearly have an axe to grind with this article. The aplus.net section of the "Gabriel Murphy" article makes up around 1/8th of the entire content of the article.LakeBoater (talk) 15:23, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Your comment holds no water. The only 'significant' thing mentioned in the introduction of the article is being the CEO of aplus.net. Given that aplus.net has been ruled to not be notable in the wikipedia, the article's subject has clearly failed to achieve notability. I also find that the other things mentioned in the article are less notable.- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 02:43, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As I recall the article has been deleted more times than it has been AFD'd; the sockpuppets tend to recreate even with an outstanding AFD. Most recently on 21 June 2008, with an AFD still applying; the article had to be fixed as a redirect to Aplus.net. When aplus.net was deleted, the redirect got deleted at that time. The sockpuppets recreated the article, and required more administrator action to deal with this. Given the multiple underhand attacks, I recommend Delete and Salt.- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 00:23, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, I have attacked this article, and with good reason. This person lacks notability, as does the company he has CEOd. There's also been what can best been described as repeated attacks on the neutrality of the wikipedia by this individual and his sockpuppets. (See aplus.net deletion reviews).- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 21:34, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Wolfkeeper, are you saying that I (LakeBoater) have "repeated attacks on the neutrality of the wikipedia"? You say, "by this individual", who are you talking about? Me, somewhone else, who? LakeBoater (talk) 03:48, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Given the repeated recreation of this and aplus.net I recommend delete and salt. The sockpuppets will simply recreate it otherwise. If he really does do something notable, then the notable thing will be notable in and of itself, and that would support overturning. Otherwise, salt.- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 22:44, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done (both Aplus.Net and Aplus.net). Gwen Gale (talk) 01:22, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Finally, Wolfkeeper suggests that "this article has been deleted multiple times", but fails to point out that the latest version of this article was re-written and is substantially different (2x as many sources, cleaned-up with assistance from admins, etc.). I encourage everyone with an opinion here to review the article in its current form. Thanks! LakeBoater (talk) 02:11, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I did carefully review the current version of the article and think the cited sources show this topic fails WP:BIO at this time. Gwen Gale (talk) 02:22, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Thanks for the feedback Gwen Gale, can you help me understand whic part of WP:BIO this article fails to meet? Thanks for your help. LakeBoater (talk) 02:28, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The sources show that while you seem to have had a more or less successful career in business so far, you have not received a notable award or honor and have not made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in your field. The sources themselves are thin, either passing references or of interest to limited markets. Hence your notability is borderline and my take is, it falls on the side of not-notable in Wikipedia terms for now. Most successful executives can come up with a few dozen references to themselves in trade magazines and local news outlets. All the best to you, Gwen Gale (talk) 02:45, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Gwen Gale. I am not "Gabriel Murphy" as you are referring to me as "you" and by doing so implying such. Please review my contributions and you will see my interests/contributions in Wikipedia go far beyond this article. Having said this, Gabriel Murphy won the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year award, which is a very highly regarded award given by Ernst & Young every year. His company also won the Small Business of the Year award by the Kansas City Chamber of Commerce. He was also named one of the 40 business leaders under 40 by a KC magazine and one of the 50 technology leaders in Kansas City by The Kansas City Star. I would think one or all of these awards would qualify as "notable", and all of these awards are mentioned in the article and referenced by independent sources. I also disagree that the sources are thin. At least 5 of these sources are profiles or biographies on Gabriel Murphy by some publication (see reference #1, #3, #5, #23, #29 and #35), all of which mention Murphy in the title of the article and most all of which is information dealing exclusively with Murphy. You mentioned trade magazines, well reference #1 is a profile on Murphy by a trade magazine. Other examples:
Reference #1: http://whirmagazine.texterity.com/whirmagazine/200710/?pg=24
Reference #3: http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-10520700_ITM
Reference #5: http://kansascity.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2002/04/08/focus1.html?t=printable
Reference #35: http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2001/06/25/daily31.html?t=printable
Reference #38: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2001_July_2/ai_76137330
Sure, not all of these references are about Gabriel Murphy (obviously) as I have included references where I can find them on Google that support various information in the article. Please review this information and reconsider your position. Thanks! LakeBoater (talk) 02:59, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW the list of lakeboater's edits are here: [8]. While there is some percentage of edits on other article delete reviews, the great majority seem to be about trying to get the Gabriel Murphy article created, recreated, adding extra redirects, or prevent it being deleted, starting from the earliest edits. For whatever reason, lakeboater seems very keen on this guy; and this is consistent with there being a conflict of interest or autobiographical issue.- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 02:37, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
One notable thing is the 6 hours spent on (depending on your timezone) Sunday 22 June by lakeboater editing this article. That seems to be a remarkably large chunk of time for somebody who claims not to be Gabriel Murphy, and, as has been noted by someone elsewhere in this AFD, has also uploaded an image of Gabriel Murphy's signature, and marked it as 'own work'.- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 02:37, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, "Gabriel Murphy" was one of my first articles/contribs to Wikipedia. Guilty of that. Since then, I have contributions to about 40+ other articles. As for spending 6 hours on "editing this article", I was actually creating it when it was userfied by an administrator per the DR (I would encourage you to read the DR on this article). Perhaps that admin is a sockpuppet as well? Is your issue now not about notability but an attempt to show WP:COI? If so, can you kindly point out the part of the article that is vanity/advertising and/or non-neutral? I am guessing you cannot because most everything in the article is sourced. As for the image, yes, it came from one of the referenced articles from the KCBJ via the web and I did not select the proper option- guity of that too (I will correct it tomorrow). I am trying to work in good faith here- let's turn this into a productive conversation. Tell me exactly what you have an issue with so I can address it. LakeBoater (talk) 03:24, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Lakeboater, the pith is, I think you've made your keen and highly personal interest in this article quite clear. Gwen Gale (talk) 03:27, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It goes without saying I am interested in this article- I created it. Having said that, did you review my response with information on the various awards and the 5+ articles that are bios/profiles on Murphy? Just trying to help you make an informed decision. Thanks! LakeBoater (talk) 03:30, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The awards aren't encyclopedic/notable. I've already said what I had to say about the coverage. This is all borderline, a fit CV but falls on the shy side of WP:BIO. Gwen Gale (talk) 03:53, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Understood Gwen Gale, then I would suggest you edit the Ernst & Young Wikipedia article then as the major irony here is that the Wikipedia article for Ernst & Young discusses the Entrepreneur of the Year award program, which you claim is not notable. You have to love the irony here :) Here is the link to the Wikipedia article discussing the Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year program for your convienence. Let me know if you now take a different position on the notability of this award. LakeBoater (talk) 04:02, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Please see WP:WAX. Gwen Gale (talk) 04:20, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I too am very disappointed that this keeps cropping up. But much the same article simply keeps getting recreated, by the same person, alternating between aplus.net and Gabriel Murphy. Essentially, this guy has asked the same question 6 times, and 4 times out of 5 the wikipedia has told him it's not significant enough to be here; this is the six, and it's not looking good. We need to make it clear that he needs to stop asking now as it simply wastes our collective time. Under normal circumstances, this would be a week delete or reluctant delete, but due to the circumstances, I'm asking that you change your vote to salt if you don't want this to be back again next month. - (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 12:55, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Trident13. I am going to ask that you reconsider your vote on the basis that national or outside of the state is not a requirement to meet notability as Davewild points out. Even if this is your opinion (which no doubt you are entitled to), the article does have sources which are national coverage in nature. An example is Reference #1, which is the Web Hosting Industry Review Magazine, which is a national publication. I would content that Cornell University is national versus local in nature as well and is used twice as a source in the article. Additionally, many of these sources are outside the state of Kansas (as you suggest above would be needed), as The Kansas City Business Journal and The Kansas City Star is bi-state for Missouri and Kansas. Thanks for your consideration.
On a personal note, I too am disappointed that this debate has cropped up a mere 24 hours after the Deletion Review consensus was to keep. I followed the proper protocol via working on the article from scratch in a userfied space with the assistance of several administrators. The new article is substantially different from the previous. However, Wolfkeeper does not want you to know this, so instead he simply has resorted to making up lies (there I said it) about this article and my intent/motive/COI/behavior/etc. Wolfkeeper said, "much the same article simply keeps getting recreated, by the same person, alternating between aplus.net and Gabriel Murphy. Essentially, this guy has asked the same question 6 times, and 4 times out of 5 Wikipedia has told him it's not significant enough to be here". Bold statements, but factually inaccurate and Wolfkeeper knows it. A review of the prior version of the article will debunk his/her claim. Wolfkeeper is not really interested in trying to work together to resolve whatever issues he has with the article (see above where I ask him yesterday what specific issues he has and rely my interest in working together in good faith, to which I did not receive a response). Wolfkeeper instead wants you to believe that this question (should the "Gabriel Murphy" article be kept) question 6 times- totally untrue. He tries to tie this article in with aplus.net even though he opened this AfD on "Gabriel Murphy". This article has been voted to keep once, delete once, and this is the third nomination. I followed the proper protocols via Deletion Review for this article. I am trying to work with everyone who is objective and not prejudiced by the inaccurate statements repeatedly made by Wolfkeeper, even though it does appear his method of attack is proving effective for him with several votes. LakeBoater (talk) 13:59, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


This was taken to Deletion Review where it was allowed to be recreated due to the new sources which are in this article as compared to the article which was deleted at the last AFD. Lakeboater quite appropiately took the userspace version to DRV to see if it could be restored, salting would have made no difference to this.
Secondly WP:BIO says "A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has been the subject of published secondary source material which is reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject." The sources in the article show this, in particular this source here and this one. This establishes notability based on wikipedias guidelines rather than on a subjective look at his importance.
I would also note that if Lakeboater does have a conflict of interest then the relevant policy WP:COI specifically says that "Conflict of interest is not a reason to delete an article". Davewild (talk) 13:11, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Please note that WP:BIO is a guideline, not policy. Coverage in a trade magazine and a local business journal don't confer encyclopedic notability (Wikipedia:RS#News_organizations notes a strong difference between news sources). Gwen Gale (talk) 13:22, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I said that it was a guideline above and am not sure on what basis they do not establish notability as they are reliable sources according to my reading of WP:RS? I have yet to see any evidence that they are not independent of the subject and the coverage is very significant. Davewild (talk) 13:30, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Gwen Gale lets be fair- surely if you read the article you know that coverage of this individual is more than, "a trade magazine and a local business journal". I would bet a count of the different sources would show at least a dozen. We can all have varying opinions, but let's make sure our facts are accurate. Let me know if you want me to count the number of sources so everyone is aware of the actual number of different sources. LakeBoater (talk) 13:38, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Those two were put forth, more or less, as the least trivial. Meanwhile Davewild and I can disagree on this one, it's ok. I've said at least twice I think this is borderline. I understand why it's been bouncing back and forth through AfDs like this. As for WP:COI, it could be helpful to quote the opening: A Wikipedia conflict of interest (COI) is an incompatibility between the aim of Wikipedia, which is to produce a neutral, reliably sourced encyclopedia, and the aims of an individual editor... COI edits are strongly discouraged. When they cause disruption to the encyclopedia in the opinion of an uninvolved administrator, they may lead to accounts being blocked and embarrassment for the individuals and groups who were being promoted. Putting this to the steadfast duck test, it quacks like disruption to me. Gwen Gale (talk) 13:48, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I am new to Wikipedia so please bear with me. I tend to agree with Davewild's analysis as I too am also not sure on what basis the articles (especially #1 and #3 alone) do not establish notability as they are reliable sources according to WP:RS. I also agree that no one has yet to show any evidence that they are not independent of the subject. Can anyone voting to delete please help me out here? Otherwise, I am inclined to vote to keep the article. 70.13.195.8 (talk) 19:26, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What newcomer? It looks to me that they've been spamming aplus.net into the wikipedia since back in 2006 (that's what the first delete review ruled). As to notability of this magazine I'd never heard of it. I googled whirmagazine and found it with some (unusually for me) minor difficulty. I don't know how people normally try to decide how prestigious a publication is in cases like this, but it doesn't seem to have a very high google ranking for example (4). It's not exactly the New York Times. The page rank of the second one is zero (presumably because it's too new to have a page rank). Quite frankly, a home page I keep elsewhere on the web has had a higher google rank than either of those, and I make no claim of notability at all.- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 01:15, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There doesn't need to be a newcomer, just don't say "vanity". Allegations of spamming are serious, but we have to stick with this subject. Sources need not themselves be notable. They need to be reliable and independent. Did the subject pay for the article? If you can demonstrate lack of independence, that invalidates the source for purposes of demonstrating notability. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 01:29, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia:RS#News_organizations makes a strong distinction in noting that sourcing from news publications is "welcomed, particularly the high-quality end of the market." WP:Common sense leads us to think that notability (in Wikipedia's terms) is much more likely to be conferred by a feature article in the New York Times than in a struggling trade magazine for ISPs or a local business journal. Gwen Gale (talk) 02:14, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing in Wikipedia:RS#News_organizations, true as it is, supports a deletion argument here. The notability of the subject is in question here, and to demonstrate notability, independent reliable secondary sources suffice. There is no requirement for major newspapers to establish notability, indeed, the seeking out of obscure sources is to be commended. Also note our first pillar. Wikipedia:RS#News_organizations is about the content, especially contentious content, and is not particularly applicable to interpretations of WP:N. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 01:42, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There's also the question of reliability though, we have no real way to know that this tiny publication is reliable. We know very little about the fact checking, independence or anything else of this publication, it could be run by the guy's brother in law or something.- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 03:03, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There are several references in the article that appear to demonstrate notability, and they don't seem to have reliability problems. The things that they report don't seem to be in dispute. Suggestions like the publications "could be run by the guy's brother in law or something" need substantiation before you even raise them, as per WP:AGF. Agreed, there are advertising and WP:COI issues here (I note that User:LakeBoater was the copyright owner of the subjects portrait [9]). I also note that the subject and his company have a history of being the subject of dubious contributions by non-experienced wikipedians. However, these are not reasons for deletion. The subject or his company has possibly done a successful job of a behind the scenes publicity campaign, but, the bottom line is that there are multiple independent secondary sources, meaning that the subject satisfied WP:N, meaning that there is no need to meet alternative criteria found in WP:BIO. If you don't like the sources, you need evidence that they are non-independent. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:33, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You seem to be assuming that all publications are reliable unless proven otherwise. Is that a policy? That wouldn't work, it's too easy to create or manipulate the smaller publications. It seems to me that you have to assume that they aren't without any evidence. For other reliable sources that the wikipedia relies on, that's fairly easily done, to get good evidence, but for such a small trade paper? It's pretty much impossible. So the main claim for notability, this publication does not seem to meet the requirements of WP:RS for the global resource that is the wikipedia.- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 13:10, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I tend to agree strongly. Although most any publication can be swayed into giving someone publicity (with money or something else), smaller, more local or struggling publications can often be swayed much more cheaply and easily. So, someone with the means to plant a feature story in the London Times is much more likely to be already notable than someone else who has gotten a feature into a local business paper. Although Wikipedia policy has no requirements along these lines, I think it's helpful to use common sense here. Is this topic truly notable? The only disagreement I see among us is whether this topic is barely notable or not at all. Gwen Gale (talk) 13:21, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just looking at the first two references (there are several other sources as well):

(1) http://whirmagazine.texterity.com/whirmagazine/200710/?pg=24 Feature article. The Web Hosting Industry Review. Digital Magazine Edition! Also available in a print edition. They have a declared CEO and editorial team (http://www.thewhir.com/about/team.cfm) and their names don’t readily cross-reference with Gabriel Murphy

(2) http://eclips.cornell.edu/entrepreneur.do?id=29&clipID=7296&tab=TabCasesPage Gabriel “Gabe” Murphy clearly has some strong links with Cornell University See also http://eclips.cornell.edu/search?querytext=murphy&id=id&tab=TabSpeakersPage

I don’t get any sense that these sources are below the threshold for sources suitable for demonstrating notability. The subject meets WP:N. Therefore keep. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:58, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Comment about SPAs I've already noted the deep worries stirred up by the conflict of interest which is clearly behind this article. User:LakeBoater, who created this latest version of the article, shows a very limited contribution history which has to do only with this topic (and is more than likely the subject himself or otherwise someone closely and personally linked with him). WP:SPA reminds us: The community's main concern is that edits by single-purpose accounts often have not aligned with Wikipedia's neutrality or advocacy standards... Users who continue to work within a narrow range of articles may find it difficult to build credibility in community discussions. Gwen Gale (talk) 02:28, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Another comment about SPAs. Attempts at vote stacking, accompanied by poor arguments based on a poor understanding of Wikipedia, are actually quite transparent, and in the end these people damage their credibility and do more to harm their cause than help. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 01:39, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment on etiquette PLease can editors refrain from inserting their comments into the middle of other editors' comments, e.g like this [10] as it makes it hard for other editors to know who said what and when. Thank you. DuncanHill (talk) 12:37, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note to closing administrator: The only edits by this anonymous IP are in this article, and I have indeed suggested that as a real possibility.- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 02:37, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Do you think all of the articles "quickly diverge into company information"? I ask that you reconsider your position/vote per the following references:
Reference #1: http://whirmagazine.texterity.com/whirmagazine/200710/?pg=24 <-- A bio on the subject, which does mention his various companies
Reference #2: http://eclips.cornell.edu/entrepreneur.do?id=29&clipID=7296&tab=TabCasesPage <-- purely about the subject with no mention of his companies
Reference #3: http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-10520700_ITM <-- A bio on the subject
Reference #37: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2001_July_2/ai_76137329 <-- an article on the subject winning the E&Y Entrepreneur of the Year award.
My understanding of a coatrack is an article that, "ostensibly discusses the nominal subject, but in reality is a cover for a tangentially related bias subject". I read the WP:COATRACK page carefully and cannot see how this article would qualify as WP:COATRACK. You say that, "each subheading for the companies list begin with the person, but quickly diverge into company information"? So the thoery is that the intent of the article is to promote these various companies and not provide information about the subject? I think it is important to understand that the subject is highly involved with these companies, either as founder or some other high role (CEO). So I do not think this article would be considered a WP:COATRACK. The most support for this is the articles where independent sources verify the subject and its relatedness with the various companies. Thanks. LakeBoater (talk) 19:55, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well:
  1. The company grew into an $8 million a year revenue producer in less than five years. It recorded 16 consecitive quarters of profitability. Don't care. This is an article about the person not the company.
  2. In May, CommuniTech.Net was selected from nearly 1,700 nominations as the Greater Kansas City Chamber of Commerce's “Small Business of the Year” and Mr. K award winner. Don't care. This is an article about the person not the company.
  3. If CommuniTech.Net had not been sold in 2002, it would have recorded the fastest revenue growth of any company in Kansas City from 1998 - 2001 per Ingram's Magazine Corporate Report 100. Don't care. This is an article about the person not the company.
Comment'. I get it and thank you much for the feedback- it is nice to work with people who have a geniune interest in trying to help improve articles. I now understand your point. I will make futher edits. Thanks agian. LakeBoater (talk) 20:39, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note to closing administrator: above account is not a new account, but has a vast majority of edits articles on webmail, including Fusemail, which is one of the companies that Gabriel Murphy invested in. It seems likely that this is Gabriel Murphy also. Note also the 2 different editing anonymous IPs in quick succession; this appears to be evidence of deliberate obfuscation going on, and supports the likelyhood of another sockpuppet.- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 19:56, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In particular, part of this comment was written by 64.126.14.3, which is a extensive contributor to both Gabriel Murphy as well as Fusemail. It's another sock, almost completely for sure. (It geolocates to "KANSAS-OVERLAND PARK" with ISP 'ABACUS AMERICA INC' which is one of Gabriel Murphy's companies)- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 20:05, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Note to closing administrator: As pointed out above by DuncanHill and others, Wolfkeeper has a history of attacking this article (which he admits to) and spreading inaccurate statements to attempt to prejudice the views of others. While I do not know what accounts, if any, the subject has on Wikipedia, Wolfkeeper wants you to believe that most people voting in favor of keeping the article are some how associated with the subject or the subject himself. A review of Wolfkeeper's talk page show he has been accused of at lease one edit war recently. A review of the entire dialogue in this AfD will show I asked Wolfkeeper to point out what he had issues with in the article. He did not answer as his interest is not in improving the article (if it does indeed need improvement in his view) but instead to have the article deleted and salted at all costs. Nevermind the article stood up on a Deletion Review on June 28 (Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2008 June 28) by a vote of 3-0.

This isn't about me, and I wasn't anyway, but my all-too extensive record on the wikipedia shows only one block, for a very short time two years ago.- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 21:25, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Gabriel Murphy seems to have strangely forgotten about the delete review on June 2[11] where the recreation was turned down. How many times do we have to put up with this sockpuppet recreating deleted material?- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 21:31, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Another interesting observation for the closing administrator is that most all of the votes to delete were from users who hardly ever vote on any other AfD except this one (and anything related to the subject) versus most users who voted to keep (Davewild, SmokeyJoe, myself, who spend a majority of their time on either AdF or deletion review. Finally, HouseofScandal's "vote" to Strong Delete (the only one) and "TP Murph's house" with no explination as to why it would be a Strong Delete is obviously not made in good faith. The comment regarding TPing someones house probably voilates WP:CIV as well. LakeBoater (talk) 20:34, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Editing on other AFDs is by no means a requirement, but I certainly have done so. But this is irrelevant anyway, the only issue for this review is to generate consensus on what should be done with this article. The true fact is that my comments are out in the open, lakeboater has been caught astroturfing yet again, and he's done it in most of the reviews of this and the aplus.net article.- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 21:25, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am going to recommend that these kind of discussions be held in abeyance, and focus on the matter at hand, which is the suitability for inclusion. These side snipes add nothing to the conversation, and I'm personally tempted to paste them into the talk page of this AFD. I stumbled into the AFD by sheer chance, and have my own personal opinion of this, but my opinion is irrelevant beyond the issue. Yngvarr (t) (c) 21:31, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I will comply with your request and not respond further to any side snipes. Thanks Yngvarr for the suggestion. LakeBoater (talk) 13:25, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The article is definitely marginal and it's an orphan. I'd expect an article on a notable person to be linked to from at least one other article. That lack is certainly evidence against notability. Caerwine Caer’s whines 23:06, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete orphaned article that appears to be resume (Wikipedia is not a resume service). As often remarked in these AfD discussions, articles are usually orphaned for a reason. B.Wind (talk) 04:36, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Hello Caerwine and B.Wind. I was unaware that linking from other articles to the article in question was a criteria for notability. I have reviewed notability carefully and could not find any mention of such. What notability does say is "if a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be notable." Regardless, the reason this article is not linked is simply becuase this article is brand new as it was just put into the mainspace after deletion review on June 28- just 12 days ago. I would think it would be reasonable to assume that it would take time (more than 12 days) for editors to link to individuals whose entries are new to Wikipedia. I also tend to believe that editors are reluctant to link to articles that are nominated for deletion, in which case this article had less than 24 hours in the mainspace before it was AdF tagged. Thanks! LakeBoater (talk) 13:21, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment  The number of articles linking to an article has nothing to do with notability, just as the amount of page views to an article have nothing to do with notability. Troyc (talk) 16:52, 11 July 2008 (UTC)'[reply]
Note to closing admin above editor has essentially only contributed in this review, presumably YASP.- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 17:05, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I certainly have questioned whether the sources are independent, the primary reference is a very small, local publication, and we have no way of checking their reliability. Unless they can be shown to be reliable sources, they are not reliable for the purposes of the wikipedia.- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 16:58, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I assume by "the primary reference is a very small, local publication, and we have no way of checking their reliability", you are referring to the Kansas City Business Journal? As you are obviously not aware, The Kansas City Business Journal is a publication of the American City Business Journals and "is the largest publisher of metropolitan business newsweeklies in the United States, with 41 papers across the country reaching more than 500,000 subscribers each week", according to their website. Here is their website: http://www.acbj.com/about-us/overview.html. The website for The Kansas City Business Journal is here: http://kansascity.bizjournals.com/kansascity/. Here is information about The Kansas City Business Journal paper: http://kansascity.bizjournals.com/kansascity/aboutus/about_the_paper.html. Here is a link to their editorial staff showing 12 editors on their staff: http://kansascity.bizjournals.com/kansascity/aboutus/edit_services.html. It would behoove you to review this information since you are assuming this is a "very small local publication and you have no way of checking their reliability". I think this clearly demonstrates that they are more than a reliable source of news information. LakeBoater (talk) 17:11, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment the sister article aplus.net didn't have any links to it either. And while being an orphan isn't in-and-of-itself a reason for delete, it does raise the chances that it's non-notable. And I can't really see how this would ever be linked, most of the ways to do that would involve adding it to a list of some kind; list of business men, list of entrepreneurs. Such lists are generally frowned upon in the wikipedia and tend to get deleted. Basically, the wikipedia isn't a whos-who or a business index or anything, and that's why these kinds of articles are almost inherently non notable, unless the individual has to have done something else very notable, but there's nothing here like that.- (User) WolfKeeper (Talk) 16:58, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment All you are doing is trying to change the definintion of notability, which is already defined by Wikipeida, so that your definition changes that standard so that you can make an argument that this article should not be included. Now your argument is that the article would never be linked in Wikipedia and therefore it is not notable. Per Wikipedia, notability is defined as "if a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be notable". Not how many other articles link to it, or ever will link to it, or how many page views the article gets. Non-linked articles are no where mentioned on the notability page, as it is wholly irrelevant. LakeBoater (talk) 17:21, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Withdrawn by nominator (non-admin closure). Malcolmxl5 (talk) 18:08, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Harry Cairney[edit]

Harry Cairney (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Article seems to have been created within minutes of the election to the Scottish Football League of Annan Athletic F.C., of wich Cairney is the manager. However the Scottish Third Division is not a fully professional league (the players are part-timers, also holding down day jobs), Annan is not a professional club, and none of the other clubs he played for or managed appear to have played at a fully professional level either...... ChrisTheDude (talk) 21:25, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:23, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Metapedia (Wiki)[edit]

Metapedia (Wiki) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Yet another minor wiki. Has been up for three weeks, but there doesn't seem to be any prospect of it ever expanding beyond this sub-stub and the author seems to admit on the talkpage that it's unsourceable. Wikipedia is not a directory of every website on the planet and I see no reason why we need a listing for this one. (A certain J Wales has also raised concerns about the lack of sources.)  – ırıdescent 21:15, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. seresin ( ¡? ) 07:02, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Kli Micheaux-Tachibana[edit]

Kli Micheaux-Tachibana (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

non-notable. All google lised site has copy text of wikipedia. [12]. Steroce123 (talk) 12:15, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Davewild (talk) 21:09, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Notable. Noted in Several Japanese Magazines, Music Videos, Google Searches, Youtube Videos, Newspaper Articles & Japanese Television Shows. [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] [26] [27] [28] [29] [30] [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37] [38] []. 24.193.44.76 (talk) 6:06, 7 June 2008 (UTC)


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The result was Keep, enough sources have been found to persuade people the article is notable. Urge people to add them to the article appropriately. Davewild (talk) 11:12, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Emporium, Leicestershire[edit]

The Emporium, Leicestershire (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

This appears to be a non-notable nightclub, despite the claims in the article. I can't find any sources to support the assertions, and none have been added to the article in over a year. Contested prod. BradV 20:44, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:25, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Five point scale[edit]

Five point scale (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Article is not supported by reliable sources, and attempts to find reliable sources to verify them have failed. I have checked Pubmed and Google Scholar. The topic, whatever it is, is certainly not notable within the context of High functioning autism, which is what the article's text currently claims. Eubulides (talk) 20:25, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. Because it's not notable, not because Ljvo wants it deleted. Kafziel Complaint Department 06:57, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

LaFayette Jackson Veterans Organization[edit]

The LaFayette~Jackson Veterans Organization no Longer wishes to be referenced or have any mention on this website.Ljvo (talk) 21:02, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


NOTE Our Organization IS Spelled with a Capital F. and IS Hyphenated.
It is on our State Charter as such.Ljvo (talk) 12:18, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lafayette Jackson Veterans Organization (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

A small local group of veterans, apparently a good group but definitely no notability. Only sources are to a local paper, likely reliable but definitely not enough to confer notability. Nyttend (talk) 20:24, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that the creator actually moved the deletion discussion to a new title; if I have messed up matters in moving it back, please forgive me; I'm not used to people moving deletion discussions! Nyttend (talk) 12:34, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And I suppose that a small village of only 300 people is not either?

Unjustified Deleting Of Images and Page

Small Organizations have large Impacts that are indeed worthy of a world wide audience.

Many times I search for little known things and if the public cannot put information in a site such as this, a lot of very noteworthy things would never be found out by researchers, travelers etc. etc.

The LaFayette~Jackson Veterans Organization was originally formed under the Auspices of the LaFayette-Jackson Historical Society technically as a committee. It has since incorporated under the State of Ohio as a separate Non Profit Organization and is in the process of apply for 501(c)19 Status- Veterans Organizations.

Our State Certificate signed by Jennifer Brunner- Ohio Secretary of State is # 758359 Document No 200804602160 Dated the 8th Day of February 2008 AD


As I sated above. because the two organizations have had such a significant impact on this small village that YOU are including it is more than justifiable to keep it on wiki.

Note that you have an external link posted on the LaFayette, Ohio page to a web site that is not being used. "LaFayetteoh.com" yet you want to delete a very active page.

You cannot give a complete profile of LaFayette, Ohio and exclude the information about these two organizations

I submit this is a revengeful act because of what I posted on the LaFayette, Ohio page that you continue to spell improperly based on your own assertions that you can't find proof that I am right. This issue never came up until I tried to correct your spelling. I have provided you with contact information to verify the information I posted so if you want to continue this argument you will have to call the Village Mayor ( Ron Moots) at the number I gave you.Ljvo (talk) 12:20, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The suggestion to delete this page by the challenger for the reason given is ludicrous.
""LaFayette, Ohio has changed dramatically because of the items cited in this article. The suggestion that article should be removed because there are no noteworthy resources validated our existence is alarming. LaFayette, Ohio is a very small village of only about 300 people. Our veterans organization has about 25 members, with 7 to 8 very active. Considering the size of the village, that is is a large percentage. The veterans organization is a very integral part of this village. In order to have a complete profile of the village of LaFayette, Ohio, The activities and history of the LaFayette Jackson Veterans Organization and the LaFayette Jackson Historical Society must be recorded here. Wikipedia Editors have also challenged the spelling of LaFayette based on research which does not include the official records of the village. (Yes Properly Spelled with a capital "F") They are also challenging and denying that the village nickname is Patriot City USA, again based on arbitrary reasons without checking into the villages records. It is time for wikipedia to examine LaFayette, Ohio Village documents before making these statements based on research that does not include official village documents. I challenge you to contact the village council at 225 E Sugar Lafayette, OH <removed phone number> to get the information you need to verify what I have been saying here is true before you delete this page.
Edits By Original Writers of LaFayette~Jackson Veterans Org. are to Be Left alone
The LaFayette~Jackson Veterans Organization is no longer interested in being represented on wikipedia. It is Our CONTENT and OUR DECISION you have already nominated the page for deletion anyway. we have decided it is not in our best interest to continue to have a presence on wikipedia that can be edited by other people. We have since declared all content Copyrighted by our organization is not in the public domain. Ljvo (talk) 13:44, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Andy Please leave our page alone or completely remove it. It Is our decision to have no content on wikipedia at this time and no amount of debate by others who have no knowledge of our organization has the information required to put information on the site. Ljvo (talk) 13:44, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipediea DO NOT RESTORE CONTENT DELETED BY ORIGINAL AUTHORS FROM THE VETERANS ORGANIZATION! Ljvo (talk) 13:44, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was merge with Combat engineering. seresin ( ¡? ) 07:16, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Engineer combat group[edit]

Engineer combat group (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Unreferenced orphan stub article that as been tagged as dubious for over a year now. Caerwine Caer’s whines 20:13, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep per strong consensus, and per article improvements since nomination. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:26, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mr Praline[edit]

Mr Praline (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Delete - fails Wikipedia articles are not plot summaries. There are no reliable sources that are substantively about this character, as opposed to simply mentioning him, so it fails notability guidelines as well. The notability of Monty Python does not mean that every character that ever appeared in an episode of Monty Python is also notable. Otto4711 (talk) 20:02, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • The sources you added are not substantively about the character. They are short passages in longer books that merely describe the plots of the sketches in which the character appears. Your first source is literally two sentences out of a 249 page book that merely mentions the character's name. Your second source is a plot description. Your third source is one paragraph from a 291 page book and again only describes the character's actions in a sketch. None of these constitute reliable sources attesting to the notability of the character. Please read WP:NOT#PLOT, WP:RS and WP:N. Otto4711 (talk) 22:36, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Then there should be no problem in finding sources that are substantively about the character, and not just recountings of the plot of the character's appearances. Just asserting notability doesn't make it so in the absence of sources. Just repeating it time and time again doesn't make it true. Otto4711 (talk) 02:36, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Quite right, and I don't mind you bringing that up a 4th time, but it's not my job to do everything there is to be done on Wikipedia. I'm saying that if the decision is made to delete, I will be shocked and saddened, and when I have time, I'll go hunt up some references. - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 22:34, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think the exchanges here demonstrate that a merge either way would be wrong - Dead Parrot is notable beyond Mr Praline, and vice versa, so both articles should be kept as different perspectives on their roles in Monty Python. I find it difficult to believe that people are considering deleting this article when this is a character who is still well known after nearly forty years. How many of the characters in current TV shows whose articles are routinely kept at AfD will still be remembered after that time? Phil Bridger (talk) 18:48, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Perhaps those that, unlike Mr Praline, have reliable sources that are substantively about the characters rather than simply summarizing the plots of the sketches in which the character appears. Seriously, for all of this gnashing of teeth and rending of garments about what a loss to Wikipedia deleting this article would be, what is said in the article that isn't said better in Dead Parrot and Fish Licence? What is in this article other than plot summaries of the character's appearances, which if you looked at this AFD without the cloud of Python fanboy haze, you'd realize is a flat-out violation of Wikipedia policy? I love Mr Praline too, but just because we love Mr Praline doesn't mean the character is notable enough for his own article. Otto4711 (talk) 22:38, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The sources are not strong. They are textbook examples of "trivial coverage" as explained in footnote 1 of WP:N: The 360-page book by Sobel and the 528-page book by Black on IBM are plainly non-trivial. The one sentence mention by Walker of the band Three Blind Mice in a biography of Bill Clinton (Martin Walker. "Tough love child of Kennedy", The Guardian, 1992-01-06. ) is plainly trivial. Whether or not notability is asserted is not the standard for keeping. Notability must be demonstrated by non-trivial coverage in reliable secondary sources. Otto4711 (talk) 12:10, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. No need for this one to go on any longer, per WP:SNOW Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:51, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Melodic rock[edit]

Melodic rock (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)
Should I put a ""not a ballot" template somewhere? Seeing as people are supposedly are being told to vote here via a message board. Doc StrangeMailboxLogbook 15:13, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Speedy Keep (withdrawn by nominator) - Diligent Terrier (and friends) 18:03, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Omissions in the Gospel of John[edit]

Omissions in the Gospel of John (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Per WP:NOT#INFO. - Diligent Terrier (and friends) 19:58, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Keeper | 76 | what's in a name? 16:55, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cape Verdean Brazilian[edit]

Cape Verdean Brazilian (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

This article is old, from October 2007, but it was brought to my attention when someone put it in Template:Demographics of Brazil. This is again another near empty article with almost no information. This article has no importance. Lehoiberri (talk) 19:48, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. seresin ( ¡? ) 07:04, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sri Deep Narayan Mahaprabhuji[edit]

AfDs for this article:
Sri Deep Narayan Mahaprabhuji (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non notable religious leader with no reliable sources. I looked at the first debate from 2004 and it offered no proof of notability or reliable sources. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 16:23, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment I didn't see him on this list, Oldest people and could not find a reliable source to confirm the age of 135. Any reliable sources to confirm this would help this article. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 17:03, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Also, he had two disciples on Wikipedia with no sources. They were both nominated for deletion and were deleted as non notables. So, he does not have two notable disciples per Wikipedia's standards on notability. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 23:39, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Davewild (talk) 19:44, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

keep: his two desciples shouldn't have been deleted either. Yoga In Daily life is a renown yoga center all over Europe and was founded by Maheshwaranda. Please review these articles as they should be on wikipedia at the very least. Thanks Abhishek Purohit —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.19.102.57 (talk) 21:46, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Reply Thank you for your first edit to wikipedia. If you would like to help this article, I would suggest adding reliable sources to the article that would show this person to be notable. At present there is no proof of notability nor any clear claim to notability. Also, there is a complete lack of reliable sources. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 22:04, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete.  —  Tivedshambo  (t/c) 21:36, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Papercutz[edit]

Papercutz (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Contested prod, removed by author. Article is about a non-notable band; cites no secondary sources as to why it is notable. Fails WP:MUSIC, WP:RS, WP:V, WP:N. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 19:10, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Addendum And based on the contrib history, the author is an SPA. Blueboy96 00:43, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
However there is also a graphic novel publisher called Papercutz that takes most of google initial pages results when searching for this name. Just use "papercutzed" (a verb used by the group used to name it's fans) as google search and see the results... --Mike trust (talk) 13:48, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. seresin ( ¡? ) 07:05, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Celebrity (magazine)[edit]

Celebrity (magazine) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Tagged with notability concerns since September 2007. The article also has a possible merge tag to Celebrity Centre - but not sure if that is a good idea for 2 reasons - 1) At present this article is completely unsourced so there is nothing really useful to merge, and 2) Unlikely anyone will even be looking for the search term "Celebrity (magazine)", so not sure if even a redirect is necessary at this point in time. Cirt (talk) 18:41, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Update: In some database archival searches I was able to find some brief mentions of the publication in WP:RS/WP:V secondary sources, albeit no real significant discussion of the magazine itself whatsoever, moreso in relation to brief snippets of quotes from interviews of prominent Scientologist celebrities and the like. Cirt (talk) 19:04, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was snow delete. Blueboy96 14:27, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OMGLOL![edit]

OMGLOL! (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

I can find no sources that suggest this term denotes any sort of "social subset". Ptcamn (talk) 18:38, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to The Color Changin' Click. seresin ( ¡? ) 07:06, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yung Ro[edit]

AfDs for this article:
Yung Ro (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

This artist fails WP:MUSIC and while his brother may be a notable musician, that notability is not inherited. JBsupreme (talk) 18:34, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Sorry if this is in the wrong place I've never done this before...but um I'm not sure who you think Yung Ro is but he is no one's brother??? He's a rap artist that is currently signed to Chamillitary/Universal Records and has 2 mixtapes and an album coming up with Chamillitary that were supposed to be released this year(dates still pending though =/). I've been a bit busy to really put alot into this page, but if you let me know what I need to do to get this page "up to par" please let me know and I'll do it :) Ghandi1019 (talk) 04:34, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep. No substantial policy-based arguments for deletion were advanced. Given the level of sourcing present in the article, a blanket assertion of "OR" is not enough. I've not even read the various lengthy rants. This closure does not rule out a merger of this article with another, should consensus determine this to be appropriate.  Sandstein  17:48, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Palestinian Exodus 1949 to 1956[edit]

Palestinian Exodus 1949 to 1956 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
No scholar ever talked about a Palestinian exodus between 1949 and 1956. It is true that Arab Israelis were expelled during this period and some villages at Israel's borders leveled but this was not a massive emigration or a period of war (as Exodus means).
In the current state, it is a WP:OR
Ceedjee (talk) 18:06, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry but Avi Shlaim, Ilan Pappe, Tom Segev all talk of the expulsions and making of Palestinian refugees in 1948 and continuing up to 1956. And as you removed the referenced work from 1948 Palestinian exodus it seems that the continuation article was called for. The other alternate is to correct the tittle in the 1948 Palestinian Exodus article and incorporate the properly secondary referenced work. Exodus doe not imply war or you end up with the absurdity of having to re-tittle the Jewish Exodus from Egypt.....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 18:25, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No.
You just give the name of 3 New historians. You don't even talk about Benny Morris.
Avi Shlaim didn't study the exodus, the expulsion of the Palestinian problem.
Ilan Pappé published on the Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. But he doesn't refer to the events between 1949 and 1956 as an exodus (mass emigration ?)
Tom Segev only published on 1949 in a book I gave the reference to you. And he doens't talk about any exodus. Ceedjee (talk) 20:02, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I happen to have a copy of Tom Segev 1949 in my hand, you gave nothing. Please stop claiming something that you have not done....I have over 50 books on the shelf in front of my computer on the subject at present, (the amount of books is something my wife complains about) Ilan Pappé calls it Ethnic cleansing and in the epilogue continues up to 2006, are you suggesting that the article should be re-titled the "ethnic cleansing of Israel 1949-1956"? I think that is putting it a bit strong, don't you? Shlaim, Segev and Pappé all give facts about the events referenced. Huthchison as you know was a UN observer and chairman of the Jordan Israel Mixed Armistice commission, the UN archives are very reliable for a neutral source. No historian stops at the end of 1948 for referring to the exodus or ethnic cleansing. Tom Segev is primarily concerned with events within Israel which is useful for expanding the internally Displaced section, Ilan Pappe gives details of the forced labour and expulsion at the end of the period of confinement. Avi Shlain and Tom Segev are good for internal political event and Shlaimis good for external political events. I really am not interested in Benny Morris, so maybe you could add something from Benny to augment the article?...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 21:26, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No bad to have so many books : [42]
*At what page Tom Segev, the First Israeli talk about the exodus ?
*At what page of which book, Avi Shlaim talk about an exodus for the events between 1949 and 1956 ?
*At what page does Benny Morris, the main scholar on this period, talk about an palestinian exodus for the years 1949-1956 ?
*Do you deny Ilan Pappé calls ethnic cleansing the period of 1948 and not something else ?
Ceedjee (talk) 08:48, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ilan Pappé calls it Ethnic cleansing from 1948 to present; he doesn't stop at 1948. Are you going to change the title to the article 1948 Palestinian exodus article in light of that? Even Morris in "Birth revisited" goes to 1950. Benny is not the main scholar for the period....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 09:27, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The 1948 Palestinian exodus is an article that have existed on wp:en for more than 5 years and that talks about the exodus that occured during the 1948 Palestine War.
There have been nuemrous studies published by scholars in peer-reviewed books and articles about that.
In that article, there is no problem to go up to 1950 given expulsions and move population that occured up to 1950 were consequences of that war or linked with that.
Ceedjee (talk) 09:36, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Only there was no major fighting and the war lasted until 1973, when the first peace treaty was signed with Egypt...Benny is the scholar that talks of Exodus and Benny takes it up to 1950. Avi Shlaim refers to it as "Displacement and Dispossession" and takes it from 1948 to 1956, Ilan Pappe calls it "Ethnic Cleansing" and takes it from 1947 to 1953, Ghada Karmi calls it "Exodus" and takes it from 1948 to present. One thing is noticeable they all do not refer to only 1948....Question when are you going to ask for deletion of 1948 Palestinian exodus as the title is OR?Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 00:28, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ashley. You will not succeed in making believe to anybody who followed my contributions that I am a disruptive editor.
You refer to Ghada Karmi. Well : here is the first article you can find in her biblography on wikipedia :
*"The 1948 Exodus: A Family Story" in Journal of Palestine Studies 23, no. 2 (Win. 1994): 31-40.
Who is making wp:or ?
It is not because you cherry pick quotes from different sources that the global work is not a wp:or. And in fact, to be precise, it is a WP:SYNTH.
Ceedjee (talk) 08:02, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

exodus noun (exoduses) 1 a mass departure of people. 2 (Exodus) the departure of the Israelites from Egypt, probably in the 13c BC. ETYMOLOGY: 17c; Anglo-Saxon in sense 2: Latin, from Greek exodos, from ex out + hodos way.[43]

Not one mention of war in Chambers definition of Exodus....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 18:53, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What references ? It is not because you pick up quotes from different books that this is not wp:OR. Please check carefully the article. Ceedjee (talk) 19:27, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
What event ? What is the exodus that would have occured between 1949 and 1956 in Israel ? Whose scholar studied it ? Even Benny Morris doesn't talk about this...
And why do you dare to write strong for a topic you don't know ??? Ceedjee (talk) 19:27, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Whoah there buddy. Cool your jets. That's making assumptions. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 19:30, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Who makes assumptions ? Please, provide me 1 wp:rs 2nd source that talk about a Palestinian exodus that would have occured between 1949 and 1956... :-) Ceedjee (talk) 19:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
From the reviews I've seen try ISBN:0585259496. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 19:45, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This is this book : Israel's Border Wars 1949-1956 (book). It doesn't talk about a Palestian exodus... Ceedjee (talk) 19:51, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee problem revisited" doesn't even speak about Exodus in the maintext, It talks of expulsions, refugees, exiting, leaving, Abandonment, transfer, only in the index is there any mention of exodus first wave, second wave, third wave, forth wave and then clearing the borders: expulsions and population transfers November 1948-1950. will you look at that Benny even puts up to 1950 as part of the mass "Refugee" period. Not quite what you have for the title of the 1948 Palestinian Exodus even Benny includes up to 1950....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 21:44, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You are bad faith :
  • The title 1948 Palestinian exodus has been chosen long ago. And I already told you why in giving you the wp:rs secondary source (widely used in the article) : The Palestinian Exodus in 1948 of Steven Glazer published in Journal of Palestine Studies, Vol. 9, No. 4 (Summer, 1980), pp. 96-118. Why do you forget this if not bad faith ?
  • We were talking about Borders Wars and an alleged exodus that would have occured between 1949 and 1956 ! Where is the wp:rs secondary source that talk about this ? All you wrote is a wp:or : no scholar ever talked about a Palestinian exodus between 1949 and 1956. Else, please, give the name, the book and the reference If the book you have just found is good, please, give the page in this book where they talk about a palestinian exodus for the period 1949-1956 ? Ceedjee (talk) 09:04, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • 1. I wasn't privy to any discussions about the original title.
  • 2. The title is inaccurate and not a true reflection of reality. from whatever source you got it from
  • 3. The UNRWA was still trying to figure out the numbers in 1951 because the goal posts kept moving.
  • 4. The events from 1949 to 1956 were a continuation of the exodus of 1948. Same sides same methods, same results...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 15:20, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Material about expulsions that occured between 1949 and 1956 could hardly be in the article 1948 Palestinian exodus... Please, let me remind you that you reverted this : [44] Ceedjee (talk) 19:30, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ceedjee the article is not all about expulsions, there were some who left due to economic forces, there were some who left by persuasion, there was some who left because of Jordanian double dealing there were also some expulsions...the "title" reflects the myriad reasons...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 19:56, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Talmud/Bible. The words used now are not always the words used at the time of an incident and it was also showing that exodus was not attached to war.
  • How many does it take to be an exodus?
  • Morris' book Birth goes up to and includes 1950. Well outside the main periods of fighting.... Ilan Pappe gives 1953 as the last bayonet point expulsion although the UN archives give an example in 1956 under cover of the Suez crisis....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 14:40, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Karmi does.
  • No, I'm pretty much a cold hearted bugger....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 14:40, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Revision as of 19:17, 3 July 2008 (edit) Ceedjee (Talk | contribs) (this... has... nothing... to... do... with... the... 1948... Palestinian... exodus... CREATE A NEW ARTICLE AFTER FOUNDING A WP:RS 2ND SOURCE !!!)", funny how your argument changes after you notice that there were loads of secondary sources in the article and that your argument has been shown to be ridiculous.....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 00:11, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Apart from:- The Palestinian Exodus: 1948-1998 (Hardcover) by Ghada Karmi (Editor), Eugene Cotran (Editor) # Publisher: Ithaca Press (28 Jan 1999) # Language English # ISBN-10: 086372244X # ISBN-13: 978-0863722448......Take your POV else where ceedjee...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 08:35, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You haven't this book. You don't know why she globalized the 1948-88 period.
As you know yourself :
  • in 1948-49 : 700-750,000 palestinian refugees (flight and expulsion)
  • in 1950-66 : 20,000 palestinian refugees + 15,000 beduin (expulsion - transfer)
  • in 1967 : 350,000 palestinian refugee
  • between 1967-88 : regular expulsion of Palestinians.
Whatever the "crime", a flow of 700,000 on 1 year or of 300,000 on 1 week, is an exodus (and numerous historian call this an exodus).
No scholar (and Karmi first is not and second certainly doens't claim so) ever called the 1949-56 period an exodus.
All this should be merged or rename. And if merged in 1948 Palestinian exodus, the article title should not be changed. Because this exodus refers to the one of the 1948 war. And I have given the sources to you (the most nice one being an article of... Ghada Karmi herself, published in the Journal of Palestine studies).
Ceedjee (talk) 08:56, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How disingenuous are you going to get Ceedjee; Morris has 30,000 to 40,000 for the years 1949 (post truce) to 1950 not for the years you give. See Benny Birth p 536.

Ghada Karmi in her personal exodus of 5 (Mum, Dad, brother, sister and herself) in July 1948 so 5 now meets your criteria for an exodus. and then of course as her judgement is now valid when she says "Exodus 1948 to 1998". or again is that only allowed if it agrees with your version and disallowed if it disagrees with you?..Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 20:43, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ghada Karmi refers to the process as "Vanishing the Palestinians" and puts the brackets of 1948 to present....Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 17:02, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In answer to Ceedjee's smear tactics[edit]

I would kindly ask you to be WP:CIVIL. I am not responsible of the fact you have just been blocked. I remind you that user:Gilabrand asked me to come and try to discuss with you because I could be somewhere in between you and her. I want to underline that I have the same kind of discussion with user:Amoruso and had before numerous ones with user:Zeq
Ceedjee (talk) 08:56, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What has that got to do with the article I don't know:-

But here is the Israeli POV that Ceedjee has defended. The Cherry picking, OR and just inaccuracies on Beit Jala raid.

....................................................

Washington, on the other hand, went ahead with formal representations to Tel Aviv, the American consul in Jerusalem called the raid ‘open, organized and provocative brutality’. The State Department told Israel that, while the US understood its difficulties stemming from infiltration, the ‘military incursions by Israel into Jordan or other neighbouring states (for the) purpose (of) shooting people or destroying property appeared to dept as extremely grave violations Armistice Agreement which c(ould) not be justified under any circumstances.’ Dean Acheson spoke of ‘brutal . .terror tactics’ US Ambassador Tel Aviv Monnett Davis initially said IDF got upper hand over avowed policy of government, since the ‘dominant military clique’ held a cynical view of moderates’ efforts to make peace. Benny Morris, Border Wars p. 218-219

Yet according to the article everything was hunky dory in international reactions???

Benny says attack 3 blew up 2 article says blew up 3

From the article:-

On January 6, 1952, three houses in Beit Jala were rigged with explosives and blown up.

What does benny actually say:-

An IDF platoon attacked three of Beit Jala’s outlying houses with light weapons and grenades, and then blew up two of the houses while their occupants were still inside. Benny Morris, Border Wars p.215

...Benny agrees with Hutchison's description...article agrees with no one

from the article:-

presumed to be revenge for the rape and murder of a Jewish girl by infiltrators from Beit Jala.

Presumed by who??????

By the US:-

‘Western diplomats were not convinced that the Feistinger rape-murder was the work of infiltrators. In Apr.1953 the US consul-general in Jerusalem wrote: ’It was never shown that the act was not committed by her Israeli boy-friend’Benny Morris, Border Wars n 16 p.215

By the UN:-

Major Loreaux expressed the opinion that the Israeli police would have a better chance of finding the killer than the Arabs would.

looks like the presumption is OR POV...Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 16:05, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. Wizardman 23:32, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

20Bello[edit]

20Bello (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Local D.C. rapper who fails WP:MUSIC and has not received multiple non-trivial coverage by third party publications. JBsupreme (talk) 18:12, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep.  Sandstein  21:02, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Glenn McGee[edit]

Glenn McGee (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

There are some WP:BLP1E issues surrounding this article, not to mention a huge conflict of interest as far as what type of editing is being done, and lastly I don't feel that this person is particularly notable. My suggestion is to delete and WP:SALT from further creation. JBsupreme (talk) 17:31, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.76.183.8 (talk • contribs) 04:35, 6 July 2008 — 74.76.183.8 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • You are welcome to present some citation data on well-known bioethicists to show that this is more than "less than stellar". The same data for Arthur Caplan, for instance, are about 1500 citations total, h-index of 20. Of course he's older than you are and would therefore be expected to have somewhat better citation rates. --Crusio (talk) 16:06, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Of course you are right. I was being serious in making a point about the difficulty, as someone who has essentially been forced to respond to aggressively retaliatory edits of this page that resulted in essentially the deletion of scholarly matters that (were there to be a McGee page) one would hope could not just be imposed as though the magazine articles by one person erase my career. I am clearly conflicted (COI) though on that matter. As to T&F editorial board, the editorial board changes every two years, and the majority remain the same. The citations to the journal itself within the same year are the ISI JCI immediacy index, which is not all that important (it results in the journal being ranked on that index above journals like Science and Cell) - though this matter is under debate; editors of the largest most prominent science journals argue that citations within the same journal in the same year, if they are not ridiculously cooked, are a metric of the journal's quality. IMPACT FACTOR is the key issue - and it does not include citations in 2007 to 2007 articles. So 2007 citations to AJOB would not matter nor is it claimed as a strength of the journal; Impact Factor is what matters and is not in question. ISI JCI also studies the percentage of citations to articles in any journal (cited anywhere) that are cites to old articles as opposed to citations to new research; AJOB is heavily cited for its contemporary articles, for whatever that is worth, though that number does have some meaning and is positive of course, given that if the majority of citations to a journal are to older articles, this further cuts impact factor of current (recent) articles. These metrics may not matter and are of course subject to controversy but are nonetheless the only metric available to medical school deans and tenure committees, who regularly use ISI JCI impact factor as a barometer hence the many, many reviews of AJOB in places like Times Literary Supplement and in fact in the Chronicle of Higher Education two weeks ago in which AJOB was described as the leading journal in the field and something of an "unheard of" growth factor for a journal. Again, COI. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.189.118.3 (talk) 18:31, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Penngirl03 (talk • contribs) 21:37, 8 July 2008 (UTC) — Penngirl03 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Membrillita (talk • contribs) — Membrillita (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


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The result was speedy delete, G3 by MZMcBride. Blueboy96 20:09, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Emilio sanchez salamanca[edit]

Emilio sanchez salamanca (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Search for "Emilio sanchez salamanca" on Yahoo and Google--2 hits, both from Wikipedia. Blueboy96 17:26, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep all per WP:SNOW. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:13, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Doug Lascody[edit]

Doug Lascody (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Players do not sufficiently satisfy WP:ATHLETE in that they have not played for a fully professional league, noting that soccer is a professional sport. In addition, players do not sufficiently satisfy the notability criteria as outlined by WP:FOOTY in that they do not play for a professional team, have played in a competitive fixture, or have senior international caps/Olympics caps. GauchoDude (talk) 16:52, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following related pages for the aforementioned reasons:

Riley O'Neill (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Michael Kraus (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Dominic Cervi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (had an AfD just 3 weeks ago - per ugen64 (talk)'s discretion)
Spencer Wadsworth (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Kevin Reiman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Michael Palacio (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Comment, some of them seem to play for professional teams (in the MLS), but haven't had any apps, so maybe delete, but be able to recreate if they to play this season. — chandler — 17:10, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Specious. If they were olympic benchers, they're not notable enough for inclusion, and if the team wins a bronze medal, they suddenly are? Heh. MrPrada (talk) 00:23, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I will do the nominator's job for him. Here is the past discussion on Cervi. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dominic Cervi. matt91486 (talk) 20:07, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete per WP:CSD#G11, copyright infringement (entire lede text was same as start of project wiki, which had no obvious GFDL or other copyleft statements visible). —David Eppstein (talk) 05:53, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

DrProject[edit]

DrProject (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Are there links or references outside of their own website? Otherwise this isn't much more than marketing. Addionne (talk) 16:46, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How many references do you want? Here is a quick Google search:

Google returns over 6K hits total, all of which (on the first few pages) seem to refer to the project in question.

I hadn't included any of these links because I just started the article. I haven't had time yet to read through all that stuff yet. I thought I'd have some time to work on the article, but it got the deletion notice minutes after I started working on it.

As a side note, we're about to go live with a new software development website for my company using the DrProject software. We are currently using Trac, but DrProject has more of the features we need. This is actual software, used by real people like me. --Ansible (talk) 04:16, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete, consensus is that this fails WP:NOT. Davewild (talk) 21:17, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Further reading on Latin American Literature[edit]

Further reading on Latin American Literature (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Collection of books on Latin American literature. No wikilinks. Nothing links there. The book citations lack the authors. Relevant bibliography can be incorporated into Latin American literature. --Anna Lincoln (talk) 16:05, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to World Wrestling Entertainment#Current title holders.  Sandstein  21:05, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

List of World Wrestling Entertainment championships[edit]

List of World Wrestling Entertainment championships (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

This page is just not needed. We already have List of current champions in World Wrestling Entertainment, and this page is just a copy of that. -- iMatthew T.C. 14:50, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. PhilKnight (talk) 12:31, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thorpe Business Park[edit]

Thorpe Business Park (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Contested prod. Article about a non-notable business park (notability is not established through external links to verifiable, third-party sources), which tends to read more like an advert than an encylopaedia article. TalkIslander 14:46, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was IAR speedy delete with a sprinkling of salt. Author blocked as a promotion-only account. Blueboy96 17:48, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

AndeZoo[edit]

AfDs for this article:
AndeZoo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

The article is just advertising without relevant content. There is no reference as to the product's notability. Most of the article (the Toy Biographies section) has been taken straight from the manufacturing company's website (see "andezoo's llama pets" at http://www.andezoo.com/. The article was created by a single-purpose account (User:Andezoo) and has already been deleted before for these same reasons, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Andezoo. Victor12 (talk) 14:37, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. John254 04:10, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Boogie Rock[edit]

Boogie Rock (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Article lacking focused content and nary a citation to be found. Completely made up of original research. Despite Time-Life Music releasing a disc of "boogie rock", no actual genre exists for this article to support. Libs (talk) 14:32, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For Christ's sake mate, give us a chance, I've only just created the page a couple of hours ago! Come back in a couple of days when I've done some more work on it please. 80.7.228.223 (talk) 16:00, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I have done some more work on this, so I would appreciate further feedback please. BoogieRock (talk) 09:45, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree and propose to develop the article further, assuming it survies AfD. Thanks. BoogieRock (talk) 22:13, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I personally don't have the distrust of AMG that other editors do. But if consensus is avoid then, for genre debates, I don't refer to it. I requested clarity for the MSN entry. The other 2 (one being a mirror site) don't list where their information is taken from. They aren't pro music publications. Rhapsody is an online sales site and it seems to just recycle bits from All Music Guide for its content. For mp3.com, on the same page boogie rock shows up, it lists arena rock as a musical style??? Arena rock is a term that describes a "hard rock" era. It isn't an individual musical style at all. Google searches to try and tie Boogie rock to a source with some reputation/validity point to more of these online music sales pages which basically say its just hard rock. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 23:07, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That's an interesting post, thanks. I think whether Arena Rock is a genre is a matter of opinion, I would tend to think of it as a term of abuse! Seriously though, do you believe Southern Rock is a genre? Clearly there is more to the rock etymology than just hard and soft rock. Boogie rock is a distinctive genre that a lot of bands identify themselves with. They know what this means and so do their fans. The phrase "Boogie Rock" throws up 348,000 hits on Google so clearly this isn't something I've just dreamt up. I understand that you don't like the sources and that's your perogative. The MSN aticle is credited to Andrew Liotta - I belive he is this gentleman: http://www.billieburkeestate.com/story.html. BoogieRock (talk) 23:29, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And he is a music journalist? The self-bio seems to describe an indie performer. I did find the term "boogie rock" used once in the "Rolling Stone Encyclopedia of Rock and Roll". In its full use it describes the "boogie rock" style played by southern rock band .38 Special. That is the only time the term is used in the entire book. In "The Essential Rock Discography" by Martin Strong and John Peel the term "boogie rock" is not used anywhere in the book. I am still looking for a valid ref. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 00:03, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know what his qualifications for writing about boogie rock are, clearly MSN Music saw fit to commission him to write for them. Earlier on your talk page you said "If it were up to me all Rock music related articles would simply have Rock in their genre fields", I respect that but given your opinion, I'm not sure there is any further reference I could produce that would make you want to see Boogie Rock as an article on Wikipedia.BoogieRock (talk) 00:17, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I found many mentions of boogie rock in the All Music Guide to Popular Music. Clearly they see it as an actual term but its that whole "avoid AMG" thing. I do question the weakness of the citations but will strike my leaning towards delete and just make this conversation a comment. My concerns about the poor references prevent me from saying keep. Of the references given only All Music Guide stands as an rs. If just a few more could be found to support AMG then I would state a clear Keep. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 00:26, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have added further references to link the bands sited to the boogie rock genre.BoogieRock (talk) 00:00, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to sheet music. seresin ( ¡? ) 07:08, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Digital sheet music[edit]

Digital sheet music (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

I have some severe doubts as to whether this can be written in a way that's separate from Sheet music itself, and doesn't use original research to explain why this is so revolutionary. On the other hand, consumer-level Word Processing was a big step up from typing... weak delete, convince me otherwise. SarekOfVulcan (talk) 14:19, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete.  Sandstein  21:07, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Topey Angad[edit]

Topey Angad (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)


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The result was keep. John254 04:09, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Internets[edit]

AfDs for this article:
Internets (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

(Preivous AfD resulted in no consensus.) Wikipedia is not a dictionary. Furthermore, a quick look at the sources reveals that they are almost entirely primary sources. Only one, as far as I can tell, is a secondary source. This article is built upon a house of original research and synthesis, not the reliable sources we require, and is out of scope at any rate. The most this neologism merits is a brief mention in the Internet article. Powers T 13:59, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree on The Internets (currently links to the article under debate), kind regards Ryttaren (talk) 08:41, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. seresin ( ¡? ) 07:10, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ya Nasrallah[edit]

Ya Nasrallah (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

stub, lacks notability Eli+ 13:55, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest you reread the articles, the two songs are exactly opposite each other in message.--Finalnight (talk) 05:49, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I have - can you show me the text in both these articles indicating "opposite messages"? I see no such indication. Perhaps one or both should be added... but if the songs are indeed related, then I stand by my original decision/suggestion. B.Wind (talk) 06:27, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
One song is "designed to be a tribute to Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah", the other "include[s] an array of insults directed toward Hezbollah (particularly Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah)". I am not sure how much more opposite it can get.--Finalnight (talk) 18:30, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete, at the risk (?) of being overturned on appeal. Most keeps are a take on ILIKEIT or the "Pokemon argument" (citing other articles like teh), whereas the delete reasons (particularly those of Colonel Warden) seem to be more grounded in policy. The most well-reasoned arguments appear to be in favor of deletion and, since this is not a vote, the article is deleted. Kafziel Complaint Department 06:33, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Overturned at DRV here. --lifebaka (Talk - Contribs) 13:59, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nucular[edit]

Nucular (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Wikipedia is not a dictionary. This article is entirely about an unusual mispronunciation of a common word, and pronunciation is explicitly the domain of Wiktionary, not Wikipedia. This just isn't an encyclopedic topic. According to the talk page, the article has already been transwikied, so all we have to do is delete it. Powers T 13:46, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: On second thought, the "Lexical notes" section is actually quite good. The whole article is well-written, really, and even the lexical notes section, which cites dictionaties, does not provide any "definitions" that, even on their own, would conflict with WP:NOT. Rather, it provides...well, lexical notes. Cosmic Latte (talk) 14:57, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I don't see how it qualifies as any of these things to point out that the guy mispronounces a word. There's plenty of other sourced material (e.g., criticism by other politicians) that is considerably more harsh, yet perfectly acceptable under WP:BLP. Besides, the article also points out that two other presidents (including Bill Clinton) have made the same mispronunciation. Art thou trying to make a WP:POINT? Cosmic Latte (talk) 00:05, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
George W. Bush is mentioned exactly once on this page, which is in a sentence that says that Bush, Dwight D. Eisenhower, and Bill Clinton all said "nucular". How on earth can you justify calling this an anti-Bush attack page? --Hnsampat (talk) 06:24, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The article started as being all about George and this history is still obvious despite the layers of dictionary material which have been added since. Colonel Warden (talk) 07:49, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: The information is sourced and reliable. Thus it is not a WP:BLP, regardless of how negatively it may reflect on anyone. And if WP:NPOV is still an issue, then remember: 1) Pointing out that someone mispronounces a word is hardly libelous. (Although if anyone accuses me of calling such an observation libelous, then I'm takin' ya to court. Kidding, kidding.) 2) W., I believe, has even admitted to and parodied his own inability to speak. And WP:COAT is an absurdly huge stretch. Plenty of people have mispronounced the word before. And even if Dubya were the first (in which case the article would say so directly, rendering WP:COAT completely irrelevant), so what? When you're president, people notice the stuff you say and do. Cosmic Latte (talk) 13:43, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Actually "someone famous studied it" is pretty much the definition of notability. There are hundreds of articles in the math section that are "little more than mathematics" but they have been studied in secondary sources. We report on that. As for the nature of the discussion, we may transwiki the content to wiktionary (without the references to presidents and simpsons) and retained.Protonk (talk) 19:52, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yes, I realize that's the definition of notability. I said "someone famous studied it" is not indicative of encyclopedic value. Why do people keep bringing up notability? We don't and shouldn't have articles on everything that's notable, nor has anyone ever disputed that this pronunciation is notable. The question at hand is whether it's within the scope of this project. Powers T 20:02, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • We keep bringing up notability because it is a bedrock guideline dictating the inclusion of articles. Unless something violates WP:NOT, WP:NPOV or WP:V, it can stay. That stops us from having ILIKEIT/IDONTLIKEIT debates over different types of articles. Protonk (talk) 20:58, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Exactly. Truthiness is an excellent comparison. One could even make the case that words such as these are more suitable for an encyclopedia than for a dictionary, because they're not "words" in any traditional sense, but they are cultural entities that have received reliably documented attention from both academic and lay observers. In other words, they're notable. Keep. End of story. Cosmic Latte (talk) 10:03, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Truthiness is indeed a good example because that topic goes beyond the mere word into a deeper discussion of the political, humorous and philosophical aspects of the usage which are distinctive and of some substance. This is not the case with nucular which merely documents a pronunciation which has no such deeper aspects. This is the essential point here - whether we have a proper topic or mere discussion of word usage. The latter belongs in Wiktionary which already has a succinct entry for this which does a better job of explaining the matter by linking to our article Epenthesis which explains the linguistic shift in a general way, giving nucular as an example. The nucular article is therefore both redundant and inappropriate. The policy page WP:DICT goes to some length to explain all this and this article clearly fails this policy. Colonel Warden (talk) 10:37, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Given my experiences trying to have articles that clearly violate WP:DICT deleted, I'm beginning to think that policy may not be enforceable anymore, given public sentiment against it. Powers T 12:59, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Epenthesis is merely descriptive; it doesn't explain the reason people say "nucular" or anything else. And plenty of epenthesis (e.g., "thunor --> thunder," perhaps) has not aroused much, if any, academic debate. "Nucular" has. Without the "Motivation" section of Nucular, I would question the article's significance. But with that section, any such doubt is obviated. Cosmic Latte (talk) 15:18, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Bedrock guideline or not, no one has disputed the notability of the topic. The deletion is entirely predicated on WP:NOT, which you specifically mention as possible grounds for deletion. It's very frustrating to have people arguing with me over something I've already conceded. Powers T 12:59, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Exactly. Part of the trouble is that editors seem to think that dictionary entries are short. This is not at at all the case with a comprehensive dictionary like the OED. The OED has two entries for this word. The first, older meaning is the botanical one. It also has a detailed entry which corresponds to this article. This fully demonstrates that this article is just like a dictionary entry and so doesn't belong here. I can't do the formatting properly - the timeline or phonetics - but here's the meat. Note the reference to usage guides - they are another thing that Wikipedia is not. Colonel Warden (talk) 18:27, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nucular, adj.2

Brit. /njukjl/, U.S. /n(j)ukjlr/ [Alteration of NUCLEAR adj., representing a colloquial pronunciation (widely criticized by usage guides: see note s.v. NUCLEAR adj.). There is no evidence of influence from the earlier word NUCULAR adj.1]

= NUCLEAR adj. (in various senses).

1943 Bull. Torrey Bot. Club 70 460 They..begin the reversion process which results in a 4n restitution nucleus... A nucular membrane begins to form around the whole group or around smaller groups or isolated chromosomes. 1958 Science 25 July 195/1 (heading) Proceedings of the Rehovoth Conference on Nucular Structure. 1983 Freezniks Unite! in net.politics (Usenet newsgroup) 8 Apr., Her speech, which I did not hear, centered mainly around nuclear (nucular, to her) disarmament. 1985 Financial Times (Nexis) 2 Dec. I. 18 The CEGB spent £4m staging a full-scale crash of a nucular fuel transport flask at 100 mph. 2003 OT: Nucular! in rec.crafts.textiles.needlework (Usenet newsgroup) 11 July, It's not just George Bushsome very knowledgeable American professor/Scientist on TV just now, talking about the cold war, just spoke about the ‘Nucular threat!’

*Delete. Certainly it's a notable pronunciation and the article is interesting, but that's not the issue. Word origins, lexical notes, and usage is exactly what you would expect a good dictionary entry to contain, and Wikipedia is not a dictionary. It's been transwikied to Wiktionary, where it belongs, so nothing would even be lost. ~ mazca t | c 07:40, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Switched to Keep The current state of the Wiktionary article [49] demonstrates that it hasn't really been "transwikied" at all, by the way. I suggest that the nominator might want to revise that in the nomination. Additionally, on further review this article does appear to contain more than Wiktionary entries generally do, and that extra information is, for the most part, sourced and encyclopedic, making the article "more than a dictionary definition". I can see the nominator's point about enforcing WP:DICDEF, but I don't think this is the right article to make that point on. ~ mazca t | c 13:25, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The article is still in the holding area and hasn't been integrated into the main dictionary: wikt:Transwiki:Nucular. Also, the issue is not whether the article contains more than wiktionary, but whether that additional content is encyclopedic. WP:DICT is very clear that we have articles on eight-armed mollusks, not on the word octopus. Powers T 13:29, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough on the transwiki, I wasn't aware that was how it was being handled. But it really looks to me like this is more than a dictionary definition, in that a fair proportion of the article seems to be devoted to its usage and history, rather than simply it's meaning and etymology. ~ mazca t | c 13:51, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Usage and history are dictionary material too. Colonel Warden (talk) 14:54, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Usage as in grammar and meaning, yes. Usage in culture and media? I'd say that's more encyclopedia than dictionary. History as in etymology and origins? Yes, dictionary. History, again, as in usage in the media and culture over time? I would again say that's perfectly valid encyclopedia material. ~ mazca t | c 15:19, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: We know that WP:NAD is official policy. We also know that WP:NOT is official policy. That is why User:Father Goose quoted from the latter: "In some cases, a word or phrase itself may be an encyclopedic topic, such as old school, Macedonia (terminology), or truthiness." And here is the statement that immediately precedes that in WP:NOT: "Articles that contain nothing more than a definition should be expanded with additional encyclopedic content, if possible." So, let's say that Nucular did contain nothing more than a dictionary definition. Then, our first goal would be to see if we can expand it by using reliable, independent sources that provide more information than a dictionary would provide. Such sources might demonstrate the use of the word by significant public figures. Well, okay, the mere fact that so-and-so used a word might qualify as a "lexical note" appropriate for a dictionary; it might even be of etymological interest, in the event that so-and-so actually coined the word. So then we try to see if the lexical notes can be complemented by additional information--like, say, an academic debate (especially an interdisciplinary one!) about the word. And that is exactly what we have in the "Motivation" section of this article. Also note this sentence from the article: "Merriam-Webster receive enough questions about their inclusion of this pronunciation in the dictionary that it is one of two pronunciations which receive particular mention in their FAQ (along with "February")." This is not part of any dictionary definition; it is a fact about a dictionary, and if WP:NAD or WP:NOT precluded such facts, then the article "Dictionary" could not exist. But let us say, for the sake of argument, that the article is borderline dictionary material, borderline encyclopedic. The scale is tipped in favour of inclusion by 1) WP:N, which everyone admits that the word "nucular" meets; and 2) the preference that WP:ATD be applied to articles with any sort of promise. And as for promise, take note of the fact that Geoffrey Nunberg has written a book about the term, "nucular"! (Come to think of it, I could have made my entire case here just by pointing that out. I'm willing to bet that no one has written anything of comparable worth about "Cleveland steamer.") Cosmic Latte (talk) 10:08, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Careful. He wrote one chapter about the term. That's a significant difference when we're using it to illustrate the amount of text that could be written on a topic. Powers T 13:26, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • We should certainly have articles upon linguistic features such as metathesis and epenthesis and these are the proper places to include such material, which they already do. But why do we need articles on each specific example such as cumf-ter-bull (comfortable)? This arguably notable too (sources) but not a suitable free-standing topic. Colonel Warden (talk) 14:52, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Please take my comments as a whole. No one is claiming that any example of metathesis deserves an article simply because someone has mentioned it in a book. My point is that "nucular" has dominated lexical discussions to a point that, say, "comf-ter-BULL" has not. Ironically, this source that you provided (via Google) just confirms what I've been saying all along: "Noo-kyuh-lur was the crime against English mentioned by the greatest number of respondents," it says. (!!!!) Thanks! We should add that to the article. This sort of expansion is the sort of thing that WP:NOT and WP:ATD have in mind. I had been planning to say that these policies are inclusionistic enough (note that I, personally, am generally inclined toward deletionism), and that the topic seems notable enough, that deletion would simply be premature. Given this citation, though, deletion would seem absurd. Cosmic Latte (talk) 17:09, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: As has been stated several times before in this discussion, if an article appears to be a dictionary definition (which this one might not be, anyway), then Wikipedia policy encourages deletion only if it can't be expanded beyond that. It is clear, from sources like this one and this one, that A) there are plenty of directions in which the article can be expanded, and B) even if "all words which appear in dictionaries are notable," this "word" is considerably more notable than other words because--I quote yet again--"[Nucular] was the crime against English mentioned by the greatest number of respondents" in a newspaper-conducted poll. This should be a talk page discussion, not an AfD debate. And we should be talking about which of several potential ways would be best to improve the article--not about whether or not all of these ways should be dismissed. Cosmic Latte (talk) 13:34, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • I continue to think a discussion on the merits of this article is warranted. In my opinion, an interpretation as inclusive as yours would be the cause of significant overlap with Wiktionary's mission and goals, which will be damaging to both projects. Powers T 19:03, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Well, my interpretation is no more inclusive than WP:ATD. I'd say I've provided ample evidence that ATD applies to Nucular, and have yet to see anyone try to refute that claim explicitly. And of course there will be overlap between a dictionary and an encyclopedia. A dictionary will contain select, lexical elements about select concepts, some of which might also be encyclopedic; and it may add some technical (e.g., phonetic, syntactic, etymological) information that would be overkill in an encyclopedia. In other words, some overlap, some non-overlap. The entire Nucular article, even in its current form, would be far too long for Wiktionary. (Take a look at how concise the entry is for such a common word as "dog"!) Again, my point is simple: enough thorough, thoughtful, and independent sources exist for this to be expanded per WP:ATD, or at least to be removed from WP:AFD. Cosmic Latte (talk) 19:44, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: No Not necessarily. Nice slippery slope. You seem to be implying that Nucular is not notable. There is already a large consensus here that it is notable. The debate concerns whether it is notable in both a dictionary sense and an encyclopedic sense. My view is that, in light of sources provided as well as WP:ATD, it is. Cosmic Latte (talk) 19:44, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Blimey! Yet another attempted case for deletion, which ultimately leads me to more evidence in favour of retention. Teh and Owned are excellent examples of what Wiktionary cannot tell us about some unusual words. Interestingly, both of those articles have survived AfD's! Cosmic Latte (talk) 20:02, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: I think this article is a little underdone (despite originating in 2003), but is potentially a much better article than it is currently. For example, I think this single word, more than any other, is a case study not just on evolution of the language as others have pointed out, but more poignant issues: the shortcomings of the American educational system and an indicator of the intellectual calibre of American presidents. Sometimes a word is not just a word. Thirdbeach (talk) 22:42, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Meh. While I like to poke fun of bush as much as 70% of the next guys, you can't really blame "american" education for presidents educated in the 1960's and matriculated from private colleges (hell, reagan was even older). Also, I've heard captains of nuclear submarines say "nucular". Not saying that makes it right but lets be real about the message we take away from it. Protonk (talk) 05:33, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Kafziel Complaint Department 06:36, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Vevmo[edit]

Vevmo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Some kind of media website. The only thing approaching a mainstream reference in this article is a blog entry on the USA Today website, which refers to "a Vevmo discussion board participant named Katiedid". All the other references seem to be blogs, too, only even more obscure. Jenny 13:32, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We use vevmo to keep track of our clients on reality shows that are taping when those clients are out of contact with us. Vevmo's sources have thus far proven to be spot-on. We are aware that much of the sourcing comes directly from the production companies who see that site as a independent method of reaching potential future viewers (alternative advertising). What I find amusingly odd and almost laughable is that the argument for deletion here is largely one that would have sunk Wikipedia in its infancy. We are talking about contemporary American youth culture here. It is one, like Wipipedia, which thrives on being current and cutting-edge -- just like vevmo is doing. Dave Garner, Managing Director, Vision 1 Media Group. Ddgarner(talk)15:19, 5 July 2008 — Ddgarner (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.


Notes[edit]

  1. ^ "Real World/Road Rules Challenge (season 16)"; wikipedia.com
  2. ^ "Real World/Road Rules Challenge"; wikipedia.com
  3. ^ "The Real World: Hollywood"; wikipedia.com
  4. ^ "Vision 1 Media"; vision1mediagroup.com
  5. ^ "So who made the Brooklyn (Real World 21) Cast?"; Vevmo.com.com; June 30, 2008
  6. ^ "Real World Hollywood: Ep. 12 - Mexi-Loco"; Vevmo.com.com; June 5th, 2008
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The result was delete. Kafziel Complaint Department 06:37, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Dare Devil"[edit]

AfDs for this article:
"Dare Devil" (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Recreation of now protected page Dare Devil (Gossip Girl). StaticGull  Talk  11:57, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus to delete, default to keep.  Sandstein  21:09, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Carter Family picking[edit]

Carter Family picking (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Short article which merely duplicates what is already at Carter Family#Legacy. Author contested a redirect to that article. Delete and redirect. Ros0709 (talk) 10:18, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What part of the deletion policy is it proposed this be deleted under? Hyacinth (talk) 18:17, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep and clean up. Bearian (talk) 21:37, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Francisco J. Blanco[edit]

Francisco J. Blanco (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

A scientist CV without any notability Xabier Cid (talk) 09:54, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

More reasons to delete



Even more reasons: the other main editor of the article was User:Kcops7, who has edited only two entries: Francisco J. Blanco and Beta hairpin, where he/she added only information concerning Francisco J Blanco. --Xabier Cid (talk) 20:03, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Could be, but I am getting an uncomfortable feeling that there may be more than one person here with similar names. I thought that F J Blanco who is the subject of this article works in cancer research. The first article in the link you provided is about some clynical study in arthritis research. Does not sound that close to me, but it is possible that it is the same person... Nsk92 (talk) 01:36, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't sure about the arthritis stuff either, so I excluded it when I concentrated on the structural biology work. Those results make him pass WP:PROF, I feel, especially since he's still relatively young and because they are kind of like a lower bound of these citation data. --Crusio (talk) 08:36, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete and salt. Kafziel Complaint Department 06:40, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Point Dume Freedom Fighters[edit]

Point Dume Freedom Fighters (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Article lacking in any references/sources, possible hoax. Unsuitable for wikipedia in its current form. Oscarthecat (talk) 09:17, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Kafziel Complaint Department 06:41, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dukes of Haggard[edit]

Dukes of Haggard (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable indy film, seemingly no distribution to speak of, no reliable sources, and only 54 unique Google hits, fouled by an eponymous San Diego-area bluegrass group. Fails WP:V, WP:N.  Ravenswing  08:45, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Kafziel Complaint Department 06:42, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ibrahim Sissoko[edit]

Ibrahim Sissoko (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

A youth player and only "famous" by his brother Matthew_hk tc 08:43, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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Sloan Bella

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sloan Bella has been removed, please contact an administrator if you need the content

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The result was Speedy delete a7, band with no assertion of notability. NawlinWiki (talk) 12:12, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sherazada[edit]

Sherazada (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable garage band with a single unpublished album. Only 90 G-hits, mostly from blogs, Myspace and the like. [51] No reliable sources, fails WP:V and WP:BAND.  RGTraynor  07:59, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. John254 03:49, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Macdaniel affair[edit]

Macdaniel affair (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Extremely obscure (at best) incident. Only two hits on Google UK, and the citation in the article in fact refers to a footnote in a translated report. Fails WP:V, WP:N. Actual details such as time, year or details are not forthcoming nor evident in the cited footnote.  RGTraynor  07:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • I actually prefer the current title (maybe adjust capitalisation to MacDaniel affair), since the sources and thus notable lemma is about the affair, not MacDaniel himself. Everyme 18:10, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete, consensus is that the article currently fails the notability guideline. Davewild (talk) 21:12, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ebo (band)[edit]

Ebo (band) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

I declined a speedy on this article as notability is asserted (TV appearance, Battle of the Bands etc) enough to pass A7 however it is not enough to pass WP:MUSIC hence this AfD. nancy (talk) 06:55, 5 July 2008 (UTC) nancy (talk) 06:55, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would need a half-hour broadcast solely devoted to Ebo to pass WP:MUSIC. Just appearing in the programme a couple of times may not be enough. While TG4 is a national station, it's a very small one, only getting about a 3% audience share in Ireland. If their appearances generated significant coverage in newspapers, etc., that may be enough to tip this towards keeping, but I couldn't find any such coverage.--Michig (talk) 14:34, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Can you share them with us? nancy (talk) 16:00, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Redirected to appeal to ridicule, but no relevant info to merge. Kafziel Complaint Department 06:50, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Argument from derision[edit]

Argument from derision (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Zero sources, zero G-hits, zero evidence that this is a fallacy known by this name. Fails WP:V, WP:N. Granted, this might be a WP:HEY result, but I don't hold out high hopes.  Ravenswing  06:51, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete, consensus is that the article fails the notability guidelines. Davewild (talk) 21:03, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nephrology Times[edit]

Nephrology Times (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

A new startup magazine. Only 21 unique G-hits, none of them reliable, no particular proof of notability. Moreover, in looking over the hits, almost all have the same language as this article, suggesting that this is a press release being copied to site after site. Fails WP:N, WP:V.  RGTraynor  06:44, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete.  Sandstein  17:56, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

List of robots from WALL-E[edit]

List of robots from WALL-E (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)


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The result was Delete, consensus is that the article fails the notability guideline and due to crystal ball problems. Davewild (talk) 19:55, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What Up[edit]

What Up (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Fails from A to Z WP:MUSIC#Songs and WP:V. I wish I could tag this for speedy, but I'm not sure which option to use on Twinkle. Do U(knome)? yes...|or no · 05:23, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete.  Sandstein  17:57, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Jamaican Brazilian[edit]

Jamaican Brazilian (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Yet another Brazilian ethnicity article with no significant content. The only source refers to the one person who is cited in this article as an example of a Jamaican Brazilian. But that person is a model who was born in Jamaica of partially Brazilian descent -- she's not a Jamaican Brazilian as defined by this article. This article is supposed to be about people in Brazil of Jamaican descent, not the other way around. I could find no sources about Jamaican-descended people as an ethnicity in Brazil. Consequently, I recommend a delete. Metropolitan90 (talk) 05:20, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Delete, due to verfiability and notability problems. Davewild (talk) 19:48, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Matthew Ough[edit]

Matthew Ough (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Previous contested prod. Apparently non-notable music performer/producer, no verifiable and reliable sources could be located online to support this article. Given the username of the primary editor, this may be autobiographical. Risker (talk) 04:25, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Keep - Peripitus (Talk) 04:02, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Logitech Racing Wheels compatibility[edit]

Logitech Racing Wheels compatibility (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

WP:V - no sources. It's a list of unsourced material and there's no way to verify the info. John Nagle (talk) 04:15, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete, consensus is that the article fails the notability guidelines. Davewild (talk) 19:45, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Jonathan Bateson[edit]

Jonathan Bateson (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Fails notability criteria as he hasn't played in a fully professional league or at the highest possible level. Hubschrauber729 (talk) 03:50, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Just to note, WP:FOOTY guidelines are not policy (and can't be a reason to delete) and are not even universally accepted, but WP:ATHLETE is. He fails WP:ATHLETE anyway so moot point, just for future reference. Rasadam (talk) 08:11, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I am aware of the status of WP:FOOTY but did you realise that WP:ATHLETE is not a policy either - it is a guideline. nancy (talk) 08:21, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oh hmm, I was told otherwise before. I see "This page is a WikiProject essay on notability. It contains the advice and/or opinions of one or more WikiProjects on how they interpret notability within their area of expertise. It is not a policy or guideline, and editors are free to, but not obliged to follow it during XfD's." at the top of WP:FOOTY and I see the standard official looking Notability guideline header under WP:ATHLETE Rasadam (talk) 08:26, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Shereth 20:31, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Jonathan Flynn[edit]

Jonathan Flynn (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Fails notability criteria as he hasn't played in a fully professional league or at the highest possible level. Hubschrauber729 (talk) 03:50, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Lacks substantial coverage in reliable sources to support a claim to notability per WP:NOBJ as well as failing WP:Athlete. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 20:15, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete all. Keeper | 76 | what's in a name? 17:54, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Little Majer[edit]

Little Majer (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

The article on the artist was deleted (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lil Majer), but it and all the albums and singles have been recreated. (Lil Majer has been tagged for speedy deletion as recreation of deleted material, but the albums and songs are under consideration here.) Also included in this nomination:

None of the articles, including Little Majer, were part of the previous AfD, so G4 doesn't apply. BradV 03:36, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
But Lil Majer was, and was recreated. It is unclear if Lil Majer is part of this AFD or not. (I originally got 'Little' and 'Lil' confused -- not surprisingly. I fixed the above.) -- ShinmaWa(talk) 03:40, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Lil Majer, which is the article about the artist, was an easy G4, and is not part of the AfD. Since there is no speedy category for songs or albums, all the other articles had to go this route. BradV 03:44, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You might want to reword your AFD then. The majority of your text is talking about the recreation of Lil Majer, rather than the articles you are actually putting up for AFD. You also imply strongly that all these articles were ALSO recreated after an AFD as well (you don't clarify that some of these were AFD and others weren't). Additionally, given the similiarity of "Little Majer" vs. "Lil Majer", we have a very confusing and ambiguous AFD here. Please fix your text. -- ShinmaWa(talk) 03:50, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was no consensus. The article is substantially different than at the outset of the AfD. There is some support for a merge here, and that may well be worth pursuing. Given John Z's last comment, it appears that further sources may exist worth citing. — Scientizzle 18:42, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Logic as a Positive Science[edit]

Logic as a Positive Science (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Contested prod, removed by author. Pure WP:OR essay. Cites no sources; fails WP:RS, WP:V. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 03:17, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to switch my vote to Neutral to see what happens with de-essayfying (Not a word? It is now) of the article to be about the book. Only time will tell. Doc StrangeMailboxLogbook 14:06, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You know, you're actually right. I noticed the article was filled with WP:OR, but didn't consider it could be fixed what WP:DEMOLISH and all. Doc StrangeMailboxLogbook 12:52, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well, you made my day - and it's been a very, very long one - with that comment. Thank you very much, a pleasant one to go off to sleep with. Sincerely, Cheers,John Z (talk) 13:24, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As the author of the article in question, I have moved my original text to the discussion page, and have left a bare-bones summary on the main page. The notability of the book itself is that it was one of the major works of Della Volpe, so if the author is considered to by sufficiently notable to merit an article in Wikipedia, then one of his major works would seem to merit an article too. As John Z points out, Coletti was a student of Della Volpe, and as things turned, Colletti was much better known in the anglophone world than his teacher, but the fact that Colletti was much better known in the US and UK than his teacher doesn't mean that his teacher and work should not be regarded as sufficiently notable to merit articles in Wikipedia. JimFarm (talk) 17:43, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. Nothing sourced to merge.  Sandstein  21:16, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Silent Möbius timeline[edit]

Silent Möbius timeline (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Disputed prod: procedural listing. Neutral SarekOfVulcan (talk) 02:55, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Correction: That 12 is the number of compilation volumes of the individually serialized chapters (I don't have a figure on how many of those there are, but it was serialzed monthly for 8 years). —Quasirandom (talk) 16:16, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'll agree, SM's main article is in poor shape, with its plot really only covering Mobius Klein and the first few episodes. I'm not sure, however, that parts of this could be merged in well to flesh that out more. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 20:15, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was speedy delete all, CSD G12 copyvio and/or A7, no meaningful assertions of importance. Gwen Gale (talk) 17:10, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Badar Munir[edit]

Badar Munir (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

I am nominating this article and all the other Pollywood articles below for deletion. All of them are made by User:Pollywood, so obvious WP:COI is present. None of them are, in my opinion, notable enough for an article. Most of them are written in a biased fashion. For example, in Asif Khan (who I nominated below), it goes "Indeed, Asif Ali Khan is a great Pukhtun artist -- whether it was his Pashto, Urdu or a Punjabi movie, and regardless whether he played a hero or villain, Asif Ali Khan never disappointed his fans. His performance was always just superb." I noticed a lot of these popping up on the COI logs so I thought I should bring them over here and let a consensus be reached as to whether or not they should be kept.

I am nominating the following articles as well for the reasons stated above.

Tariq Shah‎ (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Zre Mey Ta Oray Dey‎ (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Shahid Khan‎ (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Dilbar Munir‎ (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Saeed Munir‎ (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Asif Khan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) CyberGhostface (talk) 02:36, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. seresin ( ¡? ) 07:11, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

NeoSENS[edit]

NeoSENS (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

This article consists entirely of original research (WP:SYN). --Phenylalanine (talk) 02:42, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Online forums do not represent a reliable source. Also, it appears that Dr. de Grey chimed in to tell you your theory was bunk. Now, please explain to us how your theory, which has never been published in an academic paper, has never been peer reviewed, and hasn't been accepted by anyone in the scientific community, is not original research? -- ShinmaWa(talk) 00:54, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The fact of the matter is that the ideas presented were extant in the scientific literature already. Consequently it is not original research. The references are at the bottom of the page. Moreover, de Grey said in that forum, "You may well be right about the motivation to transform discoveries into interventions, and that is why I pay attention to ongoing discoveries. In the absence of said discoveries, however, I focus on other interventions -- ones that can already be (a) designed and (b) predicted to have a fair chance of being beneficial, either on their own or jointly with other SENS components." That was his opinion, and the crux of the discussion was whether SENS was focused on the right type of science. Where are you coming from with the term "bunk"? That is as telling as it is rude. Care to explain yourself? Or should we get somebody impartial here? prometheus1 (talk) 10:14, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm as impartial as they come. I probably shouldn't have mentioned my interpretation of the tone of Dr. de Grey's responses, as his opinion (positive or negative) is completely irrelevant to this discussion. I apologize for the noise. I'll admit up front that I don't know anything about this subject matter and don't have an opinion one way or another about its veracity. I also, honestly, don't care. However, I do know Wikipedia's policies. What you are referring to -- using pre-existing research to come up with a new idea (NeoSENS) -- is called synthesis. This is not allowed on Wikipedia. Unless you can quote a reliable source that specifically uses the term "NeoSENS" and describes precisely what this article relates, then this is original research. -- ShinmaWa(talk) 23:44, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The source is the forum. What do you mean by reliable? Are you questioning whether the discussions took place or not? prometheus1 (talk) 06:13, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
What we mean by reliable sources, no original research, and synthesis was linked to above. Please read the pages on reliable sources, self-published sources, no original research, and synthesis. I've said all I can on this, really. -- ShinmaWa(talk) 13:38, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was merge into Timetable. seresin ( ¡? ) 07:12, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rota (schedule)[edit]

Rota (schedule) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Likely non-notable; I was not able to find any sources, and article has not been eferenced and gives no claim to notability Samuel Tan 02:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Which is what I've just done. :-) Bearian'sBooties (talk) 02:27, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was SPEEDY DELETE. JIP | Talk 07:18, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lightyear Vs. Evil Macaroni[edit]

Lightyear Vs. Evil Macaroni (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

No notability at all Mfield (talk) 02:31, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Shereth 20:29, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

John Matthews (writer)[edit]

John Matthews (writer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

British author with no references to prove notability. A Google search turns up this, which doesn't even look to be the same person. Username of original creator is Jmatt11, suggesting a possible conflict of interest as well. BradV 02:12, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep if books can be referenced Dreamspy (talk) 19:28, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep – per consensus and nomination withdrawn. (Non-admin closure) Paul Erik (talk)(contribs) 04:57, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Kačulice[edit]

Kačulice (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

The subject seems non-notable because I could not find any reliable sources in English, and the subject's only "claim to fame" seems like a very minor incident. Samuel Tan 02:08, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Keep --JForget 23:11, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Muhammad Jayid Hadi Al-Subai'i[edit]

AfDs for this article:
Muhammad Jayid Hadi Al-Subai'i (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable Gitmo detainee BradV 01:48, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What specifically do you find notable about this guy? How is the article not a complete violation of WP:BLP1E? Specifically this part: "If reliable sources only cover the person in the context of a particular event, then a separate biography is unlikely to be warranted." BradV 19:15, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Here are some previous AfDs for articles similar to this one:
Perhaps you will read them and reconsider (or at least rephrase) your !vote. BradV 19:29, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Charles Whitman is only notable for one event, Ziad Jarrah is only notable for one event - people consistently misread BLP1E to try and delete valid articles. Its wording is meant to prevent there being articles about "the guy whose truck ran over Paris Hilton's dog" or "the woman who killed her husband in Illinois last week". Sherurcij (speaker for the dead) 19:33, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
For both of those articles there are reliable sources that cover more than just that event. As an example, both of them have an "Early life" section. Can we do that for Muhammad Jayid Hadi Al-Subai'i? BradV 19:36, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
As I see it, detention is Guantanamo is not a single event. It is a long process and part of a larger story that encompasses what the detainee may or may not of done to justify their detention, the manner of their detention and the legal and quasi-legal processes that leads to their release or ongoing detention. After release there is the question of where they are sent to and what happens to them. We are happy to have articles for many hundreds of sportspeople and minor politicians. I think that articles for the detainees would be justifiable if the sources exist to substantiate them. --DanielRigal (talk) 20:47, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That is an interesting point. On the one hand the US government is the organisation holding the detainees and almost all of the information we have about them is sourced through the US government. However it is widely accepted that government agencies are RS. If they were not then vast numbers of articles would be left effectively unsourced. How can we resolve this? In my view it is a mistake to regard a government as a single source of information. A government consists of many agencies and releases many types of information and propaganda. A distinction has to be drawn between hard, reliable information like court transcripts, official statistics and budgets all the way through spun information to the often self serving and unreliable statements that politicians make. Although heavily redacted, I think the sources here fall on the reliable end of this continuum and are RS enough to use. --DanielRigal (talk) 20:47, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that the US Government can be used as a reliable source, but no way for this. They can be trusted to say that there are 254 inhabitants in so-and-so village, because they don't really have a strong incentive to lie. In this case, they are the party charging Muhammad Jayid Hadi Al-Subai'i with the crimes, so there's no way they can be relied on. Assuming arguendo that they are reliable, they aren't secondary, which is another prerequisite. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 20:59, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I have been thinking about this and I think that we are both right on this in different ways. Surely we can treat solid factual information from the US government saying that "[person] was detained on [date]" or "[person] was brought before a tribunal on [date] and the result was [whatever]" as RS and make a distinction between that sort of information and "[person] is a dangerous terrorist because of [a list of disputed and/or uncorroborated allegations]", which is clearly not RS. It seems to me that the US government has many agencies speaking with multiple voices, some of which can be considered as reliable secondary sources even when talking about the government's own actions. I do understand why this makes people uncomfortable, and I agree that we need to be very cautious, but I think this is acceptable in principle. --DanielRigal (talk) 12:30, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with most of what you said, and that exactly is the reason for my !vote. The heart of the article, and this person's claim to notability, are his criminal acts. Without the criminal acts we have nothing. So we have an article here about a living person that is being accused of heinous acts and the source that we are using for these "facts" are unreliable. Anybody who has been following the news lately, knows that the US government, in regard to Guantanomo Bay, had no trustworthiness. What we have here is an attack article on an unnotbale person all based on an untrustworthy source. A blatant violation of WP:BIO, WP:BLP, and WP:BLP1E. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 13:27, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In my (limited) experience with the families and legal representatives of Guantanamo detainees, I have never heard anything negative about the detainee's "right to privacy", rather they seem insistent on getting the detainee's story "out there", including what he has been charged with. A system can appear rigged, but that does not mean that an article should not exist about people it accuses, if Gaddafi, Musharaf or Putin had alleged that al-Subai'i had been an assassin sent to kill them - as unlikely as their story would be, we would still have an article on him. If the United States claims he is "the worst of the worst" terrorists, then it may or may not be true - but the article should exist and fairly delineate any known facts about him. Sherurcij (speaker for the dead) 15:09, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The analogy is incorrect. If a person is accused by a Prime Minister of being an assassin out to kill him, it is guaranteed that multiple reliable sources will report on that person. However, one person that is part of an 800-person of so-called bad terrorists is not guaranteed to have received substantial coverage in reliable sources. In addition, a Prime Minister-assassin has long-term notability as not to be violative of WP:BLP1E. However, every person in a 800-person group does not have long-term notability beyond a WP:BLP1E. As for your personal knowledge of certain detainees that do want a Wikipedia article, unfortunately, that cannot be taken into consideration. This afd has precedential value to articles about other detainees. Admittedly, some of the detainees might want a Wikipedia article about them to get the "word out there", but there are some that just want to do their time and then go quietly home. They are not interested in having their so-called terrorist activities memorialized permanently in an encyclopedia. They were not notable prior to the accusations, they aren't notable now, and they won't be notable after the issue is settled. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 15:39, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep. Shereth 20:27, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Moneyfacts.co.uk[edit]

AfDs for this article:
Moneyfacts.co.uk (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

I am nominating this article in order that a consensus can be reached as to whether this article should stay. The website may not be notable enough for inclusion in Wikipedia. The article may also represent self promotion and be written by someone with a conflict of interest.

As an admin whose decision has been overturned, I will not advocate either 'keep' or 'delete' in this debate. However, if the article is kept, we may wish to change the article name to Moneyfacts. - Richard Cavell (talk) 01:30, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • I checked that whole list. Each one of those is a reference to moneyfacts. Not one (please double check me, it is late) that I read was more than a brief reference to a spokesperson or a report. Many of them were press releases. To me, it seems like this is an earned media case. Press organizations need quotes and moneyfacts likes to give them. Protonk (talk) 04:49, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't agree. No one has written a story about them. How are we to assert notability without some original research? I know this sounds stupid, but it is the point of this encyclopedia. Whatever content is here should only be here if someone has written about it first. Protonk (talk) 14:24, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
While the list of Google News hits on the awards contains a lot of press releases and non-RS stuff I see that the Guardian is included and that has persuaded me to switch from "weak keep" to "keep". When the article is rewritten the awards should be included in it. --DanielRigal (talk) 12:51, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It is not a blog. It is a column in the paper. This is what its article history says: "This article appeared in the Observer on Sunday September 24 2000 on p8 of the Cash section.". --DanielRigal (talk) 20:04, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
OIC. Protonk (talk) 20:24, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete, consensus is that the term fails the notability guidelines. Davewild (talk) 19:31, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mind Game (video game)[edit]

Mind Game (video game) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Prod removed by author. Non-notable gaming term inadequately supported by references. One reference seems to be a blog (not RS) and the other is a general gaming site which does not include the phrase "mind game" on its front page (which is what is linked). In a gaming context "mind game" seems to mean the same as in most other contexts and so it is not necessary to have a separate article on mind games in computer games. DanielRigal (talk) 01:22, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Shereth 20:24, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Matthew Wrankmore[edit]

Matthew Wrankmore (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Ice Hockey player who does not meet WP:ATHLETE. Ice Hockey is not a fully professional sport in Australia. He has not represented Australia in an international tournament. There are no reliable, independent sources provided for this article. This is a disputed PROD, reasons have been supplied on the article's talk page. Mattinbgn\talk 01:11, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment It's been argued before (though I don't really agree) that the National team is not the highest level of amateur sport because professionals can play in the Olympics and World Championships now. -Djsasso (talk) 14:51, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Having written the criterion in question, my intent, as I gave in the examples, was to highlight periods in major hockey powers before professional leagues were allowed, such as 19th century Canada and the pre-1990 Soviet Union. The "top national league" criterion also assumed that the nation in question was a legitimate hockey power, and the examples I gave were leagues from Sweden, the Czech Republic and Russia. Neither was intended (for example) to immediately qualify for articles any players in a putative Nigerian hockey league.  RGTraynor  00:54, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete and salt. Shereth 20:21, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wavedash[edit]

AfDs for this article:
Wavedash (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Article about a nonnotable technique used in the Super Smash Bros. series. It is mostly gameguide material and does not belong on Wikipedia. It previously failed two other AfDs and was deleted both times, as you can see to the side. Artichoker[talk] 00:20, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was G3 Hoax. Deleted by MBisanz, non-admin closure. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells•Otter chirps) 01:21, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Untouchable (Ghetto Rida Album)[edit]

Untouchable (Ghetto Rida Album) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Fails WP:MUSIC it even states that it had low sales. LegoTech·(t)·(c) 00:06, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Keep. — MaggotSyn 13:00, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Declaration of Calton Hill[edit]

Declaration of Calton Hill (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Advert for minor Scottish political party, minor non notable event by former politicans in Edinburgh Astrotrain (talk) 12:43, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep per WP:SNOW. No consensus to delete as the subject easily passes notability per WP:BIO. (non-administrative closure) -- RyRy (talk) 10:20, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

George Gilmore[edit]

George Gilmore (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Fails WP:BIO, minor criminal with no notable coverage from independent sources Astrotrain (talk) 12:48, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

George Gilmore was an important political figure on the Republican left in Ireland in the 1920s and 1930s. I therefore oppose deletion. The fact that this article is a stub is no reason to delete it. --Mia-etol (talk) 16:57, 5 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I don't think there's anyone out there shortening leads, at least not a significant number. It's just that most articles aren't long enough for one that's much longer than a sentence. In fact it's more common for an article to start with no lead at all. --Dhartung | Talk 04:33, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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