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The result was no consensus to delete, default to keep. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 18:21, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Gene Odom[edit]

Gene Odom (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable subject fails WP:BIO. Article appears to be for advertising for a book and serves no other purpose. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 23:29, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Odom's remembrance is both loving and pointed, as he makes his case for the band as the most glaring of omissions from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, a slight he suspects was prompted by their association with the confederate flag. It's an image that Odom says was pushed on the band by its label as a marketing ploy, but one that was also a regional point of pride. 'I think that's what held the boys out of the Rock Hall,' Odom says."1
Skynyrd's 2005-2006 invitation & inductment into the Hall of Fame might not be a pure coincidence. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ((⊕)) 15:36, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 18:24, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Inner Surge[edit]

Inner Surge (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)
Signals Screaming (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Bryan Sandau (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Scott Taylor (Inner Surge) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

No assertion of notability that I saw, that meets the Wikipedia:Notability (music), but maybe I missed something. I didn't find anything in Google News. There has been enough debate about notability on the talk page to make me keen to bring this to a wider audience, rather than tag it for speedy deletion. Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 23:22, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 14:26, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Metropolitan areas of Egypt[edit]

Metropolitan areas of Egypt (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)
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The result was Keep. Synergy 00:33, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Stephanie Twell[edit]

Stephanie Twell (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Delete does participation in - and even winning - a junior competition confer notability? I think that age-limited competitions are not the sort that do, otherwise many under-16 or under-18 footballers, little leaguers, and high school/college athletes would be deemed notable, contrary to the normal outcomes at afd. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 22:55, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. An interesting question... does participation in - and even winning - an international junior competition confer notability? I think that if the answer is no, then all junior athletes who have won an international junior competition, but not a senior competition, should be deleted. For example, under these criteria, Mercy Cherono, Sule Utura‎ and Genzebe Dibaba should also be deleted as these women are also notable for winning junior competitions.
However, even less notable are Jordan Hasay, Christine Babcock and German Fernandez. Hasay, Babcock and Fernandez have never even won a significant international junior competition. They have not achieved results in Olympics, Outdoor World Championships, Indoor World Championships, World Cross Country Championships, nor have they even won World Juniors or Junior Cross Country titles, so quite clearly they are far less notable than Stephanie Twell, Genzebe Dibaba and Sule Utura. So what is the rule here? Quite clearly, if Stephanie Twell is not notable, then Jordan Hasay, Christine Babcock and German Fernandez are even less than notable and should deleted. My own opinion is that IAAF World Junior Championships in Athletics are significantly more notable than Pokemon (for example), but there might be a case for deleting Jordan Hasay, Christine Babcock and German Fernandez who are only notable at a national level.
I would suggest that the person suggesting the deletion of winners of the IAAF World Junior Championships in Athletics should start with the far less notable national junior athletes like Jordan Hasay, Christine Babcock and German Fernandez, before deleting World Junior Champions like Stephanie Twell. --Xagent86 (Talk | contribs) 10:54, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree with your final point. Let's discuss it with a noteworthy one. If Stephanie Twell is not notable, then that's a precedent for the others. Starting at the less notable end and wittling away at them is far more likely to produce inconsistent results, in my view. Also, if we decide she is notable, we'll have started discussing where to draw the line. If you think quite a lot of articles are affected by this reasoning, let's advertise this AfD at WP:ATHLETE and at the relevant wikiprojects, also. AndyJones (talk) 16:13, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I can see your reasoning. However if we are looking for a precedent, I notice that in the case of Jordan Hasay, there was already a proposed deletion and the decision was to Keep. Perhaps WikiProject Running need to be involved in setting some clear guidelines otherwise we could end up with the winners of World Juniors (such as Stephanie Twell) being deleted and the forth place finisher in the same race (Jordan Hasay)[1], being kept. --Xagent86 (Talk | contribs) 04:49, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 14:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Identified Tour 2008[edit]

Identified Tour 2008 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

A typical tourdates listing for a future Vanessa Hudgens tour to bunch of state fairs. I prodded this and it was recreated. I would like to argue against a redirect since '"Identified Tour 2008" -wikipedia' gets zero Google hits. I searched without quotes and found nothing to warrant an article. Phlegm Rooster (talk) 22:36, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 14:32, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Treating macular degeneration with electrical stimulation[edit]

Treating macular degeneration with electrical stimulation (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Article is set out like a project, referencing only an educational establishment's FAQ or other WP articles. Assumption is complete original research (points eight and nine at WP:DEL#REASON) - possibly a college paper or coursework? Booglamay (talk) 22:34, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was A7 by Tawker. Non-admin closure. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters(ChirpsClamsChowder) 22:48, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fanny Grace[edit]

Fanny Grace (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Previously up for AfD in March with a result of no consensus due to some Kurt Weberism (no offense, Kurt) and the presence of a decent length CMT bio. However, besides that, I am finding no reliable third party sources that are more than mere trivial mentions of the duo, so I feel that they still don't meet WP:MUSIC. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters(ChirpsClamsChowder) 22:23, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Wizardman 03:49, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The George Nethercutt Foundation[edit]

The George Nethercutt Foundation (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Speedy deleted as both CSD A7 (no assertion of importance) and G11 (blatant advertising - org spam), then taken to a deletion review, then sent here by the deleting admin (me). Fails WP:ORG. Gwen Gale (talk) 22:04, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm waiting to see if Counsel (Floridan? what the hell...) can come up with anything to show that this organization meets the notability requirements of WP:ORG. He/she seems like a smart fellow, I was expecting better arguments in this AfD than the fact that other articles exist. If specific notability assertations related to Wikipedia policy cannot be brought forward, I'm afraid the article will be deleted. (Or, at least, I will !vote delete. But that seems to be the direction of this AfD anyways.) Tan ǀ 39 02:15, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Only as a way to highlight how takes on this kind of thing can be a bit offset (and with no worries about that), I don't think there's any implied importance in awarding scholarships. Gwen Gale (talk) 17:45, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Moved I moved the content to the George Nethercutt page as the writing is on the wall, as it were, here and that sounded like a reasonable solution. If someone is so inclined would he or she correct the redirects at Nethercutt Fellow and Nethercutt Foundation so that they direct to the section as it now stands. I Have been wikibonked for a while and do not remember how to do that.--Counsel (talk) 21:06, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 14:35, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Humane Society of Allen County[edit]

The Humane Society of Allen County (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Article about a non-notable local chapter of the Humane Society. No third-party references. Tom (talk - email) 22:02, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • There are many local humane societies in the United States at the county level, and there are over 3,000 counties in the United States. Do you suggest each one deserves an article? Unless there is something particularly extraordinary about this office compared with the others, it is not notable. --Tom (talk - email) 01:30, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. PhilKnight (talk) 14:30, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Whatever You Like (T.I. song)[edit]

Whatever You Like (T.I. song) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

:Swing Your Rag (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

These articles should be deleted as it fails notability according to WP:MUSIC#Songs. There is no such thing as a music single "released on MySpace", which really doesn't matter since, according to policy, for a song to be notable it needs to have been listed on a notable music chart (Hot 100 e.g.). Merging these articles to the Paper Trail would be useless as well, since they are already mentioned. See also:


Do U(knome)? yes...|or no 21:50, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. More than one of the arguments to keep concede that this article is lacking in sources - which ironically enough is the primary contention of the nomination. Shereth 21:10, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Variant texts in Scientology doctrine[edit]

Variant texts in Scientology doctrine (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

See prior discussion - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Altered texts in Scientology doctrine. The article appears to be mostly WP:OR, and relies heavily on primary sources, and an WP:OR analysis of those primary sources. Has not received significant discussion in WP:RS/WP:V secondary sources, though of course I am amenable to being proven wrong about this point, would love to see the sources that go into detail discussing this topic. Cirt (talk) 19:50, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If it is your assertion that this topic has received significant coverage and discussion in multiple secondary sources, could you please provide evidence to back that up? Cirt (talk) 11:26, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually the article isn't even that well sourced at the moment. Edward321 (talk · contribs) - can you demonstrate that this subject has been significantly discussed in WP:RS/WP:V secondary sources? Cirt (talk) 17:10, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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If you think it can be fixed, could you please cite a secondary source satisfying WP:V/WP:RS that discusses this topic? Cirt (talk) 05:44, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
At present the article does not show that the topic has been discussed in secondary WP:RS/WP:V sources, as per WP:NOTE: significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject. Can you cite any secondary sources that do discuss the subject in depth? Cirt (talk) 17:47, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 14:39, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mission SF Federal Credit Union (organization)[edit]

Mission SF Federal Credit Union (organization) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Delete not notable per WP:CORP. Only has two news mentions but from minor sources at best. Most of the sources in the article are from the organization itself. WP:CORP states, "Organizations are usually notable if the scope of activities are national or international in scale and information can be verified by sources that are reliable and independent of the organization...Organizations whose activities are local in scope are usually not notable.." Ave Caesar (talk) 21:41, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 14:41, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The One Feather Tail of Miss Gertrude McFuzz[edit]

The One Feather Tail of Miss Gertrude McFuzz (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

There is no reason for an entire article to be dedicated to one song from a musical, especially when the a lot of the content in the article has nothing to do with the song itself. Juansidious (talk) 21:21, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 14:36, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Alex Quillo[edit]

Alex Quillo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Two sentence article on a footballer who plays for a reserve team in the non-fully professional third tier in Spain, therefore failing WP:ATHLETE. Was originally prodded, but as happens so often, it was removed without explanation by an IP. пﮟოьεԻ 57 21:12, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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Angelo Parenti[edit]

The result was delete. AfD nomination withdrawn. Article speedy deleted as hoax under CSD G3 Matilda talk 06:53, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Angelo Parenti (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Pure invention. No rider of this name known to the website of his supposed team, nor on cyclingnews.com, nor on cyclingwebsite.net; not in current TdF, yet alone a stage winner, and rather than having won 2 world titles, he is unheard of on the UCI website. Kevin McE (talk) 21:02, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently it cannot be speedied while it is CfD'ed, although it clearly deserves to be. Can I, in that case, withdraw this and put up a CSD G3 instead, to get this patently invented crap off the site asap ? Kevin McE (talk) 23:25, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'll contact an admin to speedy this. --I'm an Editorofthewiki[citation needed] 23:28, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete as product of vanity press. DS (talk) 04:20, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Record of Val-Kyrie[edit]

Contested PROD. The book is not notable. The book is self-published with no significant reviews, nor has it won any awards or have any other attributes that would make it notable. A search through Google news, scholar and book find nothing. a web search turns up lots of listings for online booksellers. Whpq (talk) 20:38, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following related page because it describes an element of the book that also fails notability:

FISTT (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
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The result was Delete, not encyclopedic. Chillum 00:15, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nanoterrorism[edit]

Nanoterrorism (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Redundant article, supposedly about terrorism, but in fact only mentions accidental damage caused by fictional nanobots, such as is already covered by Grey goo KatieWay (talk) 20:28, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Keep for now, but it needs to be expanded beyond a dict-def to deal with issues brought up here. Chillum 00:19, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Newbie[edit]

Newbie (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Very widely used term, but it's still an undersourced dicdef with a trivia list. I can't see it expanding beyond a dicdef. Has also been tagged for cleanup for a year with no improvements. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters(ChirpsClamsChowder) 20:08, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think there are sources that cover the emergence and use of the term which would take it beyond a dict def. Though most link it to noob so a redirect would be appropriate. --neon white talk 13:32, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think Newbie is the original term so would suggest that instead of a redirect to noob it should be the other way around. Jasynnash2 (talk) 13:43, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was G3 as hoax, by Happyme22. Non-admin closure. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters(ChirpsClamsChowder) 19:46, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Anawatazi[edit]

Anawatazi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Seems like a hoax. All hits on Google are from Wikipedia. --aktsu (t / c) 19:35, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was G12 by Matthewedwards, non-admin closure. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters(ChirpsClamsChowder) 19:37, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Profile Rock[edit]

Profile Rock (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

copyright violation; unsourced; notabilty not claimed Mr. E. Sánchez Wanna know my story?/ Share yours with me! 19:28, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. After ten days on AfD and extensive discussion, this article about a fictional character in a roleplaying game (the content about a real-world historical title that was briefly inserted has not stuck) is still only sourced to three of the game's rulebooks. This means that it fails WP:N, a guideline according to which the topic of an article must generally have significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. In view of this, the arguments of the minority of editors advocating a "keep" would have to be persuasive indeed to prevent deletion. That, they are not. With the notable exception of DGG, who makes an interesting WP:SS argument (although one that would amount to inherited notability, which I think is not generally accepted), they either amount to WP:WAX or otherwise fail to address the issue of the specific sourcing requirements of WP:N. I'm therefore required per WP:DGFA to discount most "keep" opinions and to find that we have a consensus to delete.  Sandstein  17:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Emperor of Mankind[edit]

Emperor of Mankind (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

This article asserts zero notability through reliable sources, and as such is just a repetition of plot elements from the Warhammer 40,000 game articles. As such, it is duplicative, trivial, and should be deleted. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 20:27, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The complaints you have raised only seem to require a revision of the article, not a deletion. The Emperor is a very important character in the Warhammer 40k Universe. Deletion would be rash and injudicious. Sfrostee 00:33, 13 July 2008

Lack of notability is fatal to an article, not the common cold. It would be rash to keep articles with no assertion of notability and no potential for future notability. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 00:52, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep requires some kind of evidence that it is notable, such as a link to creator commentary, or an article on the character and how it was designed. If it has none of those things, it isn't notable, no matter how "important". Judgesurreal777 (talk) 16:18, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Section break: Beginning revised version that is no longer indended to focus on Warhammer[edit]

I have begun the new version and will continue a bit later. --Happy editing! Sincerely, Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 17:12, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]



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The result was delete. Wizardman 03:44, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Diplomats vol 1[edit]

Diplomats vol 1 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Contested prod. Article about a mixtape which fails WP:MUSIC#Albums: "Demos, mixtapes, bootlegs, promo-only, and unreleased albums are in general not notable; however, they may be notable if they have significant independent coverage in reliable sources", however, no sources are provided. Ros0709 (talk) 19:09, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was speedy deleted under A7. --lifebaka (talk - contribs) 23:32, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tonight The Prom[edit]

Does not appear to meet WP:BAND guidelines for inclusion. RFerreira (talk) 18:45, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was A7 Speedy. Tawker (talk) 19:04, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

RELOADED (warez)[edit]

RELOADED (warez) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Just a random website. No indication of why or how this is notable. The only sentence in the entire article has ((fact)) stuck on it. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 18:40, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. Wizardman 03:45, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Glastonbury Festival (R.E.M.)[edit]

Glastonbury Festival (R.E.M.) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Not notable. Unreliable. Arb name. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 18:19, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Delete --JForget 00:48, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comedy Central Presents: 100 Greatest Stand-Ups of All Time[edit]

Comedy Central Presents: 100 Greatest Stand-Ups of All Time (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Copyright violation of the publishers' intellectual property. This is a subjective list, therefore a creative work, and so it's copyrighted. If this were a list of the top 100 comedians ranked by album sales, or some such objective criteria, then it wouldn't be a copyvio. Corvus cornixtalk 17:59, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Delete. This is a case where an appropriate article on this subject may be defendable in the future, but at this time is not supportable with our requirements for verifiability in independent sources. The subject is not patently non-notable, but this article's existence in mainspace is currently premature. I'll be happy to userfy it for any interested editor. Jerry talk ¤ count/logs 02:59, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnicity and Democratic Governance[edit]

Ethnicity and Democratic Governance (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

This is an academic research project which, though it may be very worthy, has no third-party sources to prove notability in Wikipedia terms. There is also a problem with conflict of interest, and so a concern with promotion, as the article author is a member of the project. jbmurray (talkcontribs) 17:59, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies. I was imprecise. Formally, my objection to the article is that the article does not meet the threshold for notability of organizations, defined in WP:ORG, which is significant (as opposed to incidental) coverage in reliable independent sources.
I was making an offhand comment that projects, programs and other funding vehicles for academic research are unlikely to meet this standard if they do not perform groundbreaking work. I was wrong to use the noun "institute" -- it can mean very different things. In some cases, it means independent institutions of significant heft like the Institute for Advanced Study, in other cases, the institute is a department or a major center in its own right like the Courant Institute, in yet other cases the word institute refers to little more than a peculiar administrative division inside some department. It was in this third sense that I referred to institutes as funding vehicles. Best, RayAYang (talk) 04:25, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your comments. I have a few points of clarification before I respond:
  • The project does not have a building of its own, but it does have a block of offices at Queen's University and a permanent staff. The Major Collaborative Research Initiative grant was to found an independant organization to facilitate collaborative international research; it's not just funding vehicle.
  • Members of the project have in fact produced more than 100 publications through the collaboration that it has facilitated (the website is not up to date, and will be replaced later this year), but I have only included those publications that have been promoted as such. I have more to say about this below.
  • I may be mistaken, but my experience is that Wikipedia does not use full professorship as a necessary condition for the notability of an academic. The six assistant professors on the project are members because their upcoming research is promising, and they likely don't meet the criteria for notability yet, but all of the associate professors certainly do. It also seems odd to me to say that the collaboration of five Canada Research Chairs on one project is unremarkable.
  • The current grant is for five years, but is renewable for another seven years after that, and the Queen's members of the project hope to use it as a basis for a full research institute there in the future. I know that doesn't have much bearing on its current form, but I thought it was worth pointing out, since you mentioned the duration of the project as an issue.
Having said all that, I do recognize that this type of project doesn't seem to fit well with Wikipedia's current notability standard for organizations, but I don't think that alone is sufficient justification for deletion. Maybe the standard is unfairly biased towards a particular type of activity? The fact is that the nature of this kind of organization is such that its many accomplishments will almost always manifest themselves in the activities of its members. None of that activity would have been possible without the organization, but it is rarely attributed directly to the project itself (with the regular exception of publication acknowledgments, or the rare exceptions of the 'product of EDG' publications that I've cited in the article), even when members of the project are interviewed by media outlets (which happens fairly regularly, given that so many of them a specialists in hot topics like multiculturalism). There are a lot of projects like this that are an integral part of producing high-level academic research, and I think that there is a good case for including them (and not just this one) in Wikipedia. Evidence of their notability may have to be less direct than in other cases, but I think that is reasonable. As I mentioned above, the person who nominated this article for deletion helped to save a similar one that he created himself by arguing that while the Institute does not have many third-party references to indicate its notability, its activities are sufficiently demonstrative of that fact. – SJL 18:21, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the clarification. Actually, all that is needed is articles about the project in professional magazines or journals, articles not based on the school's PR. Given what you describe, they may well be available. As you recognize. we really do like direct evidence. I went into the length I did because there are indeed many similar projects, and we have no really established criteria. It is very much easier showing the notability of such a project once it is finished and all the work is published and commented on, and citations to it are available. This article was at least introduced mid-way in the project, not at the very start as most such articles are (in which case they almsot always get deleted), so perhaps you wlll be able to find something. O'm sympathetic here, but the article needs further support. DGG (talk) 14:17, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm looking into it now. – SJL 03:54, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I just added a newspaper article about the project to the 'References' section. – SJL 04:25, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Respectfully, the fact that you describe the research produced by MCRI projects as "inflated collations of research that would have been done anyway" suggests that you have no direct experience with them. I'm not going to labour this point, but I really have no idea where you are coming from. Together, the basic grant and the various contributions from participating institutions amount to $4-5 million, and that funding is contingent on collaborative research and publications, among other conditions. This has a significant impact on the activities of MCRI team members and their students, and a great deal 'gets done' that otherwise wouldn't.
Please don't accuse me of lying. Thanks. --jbmurray (talkcontribs) 18:08, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't say that you are lying. I said that your characterization of MCRI projects is inaccurate, and explained why. If you do have direct experience with a MCRI (as a member, workshop participant, etc.), though, I'd like to know which one matches your description. – SJL 18:21, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
As for the longevity of MCRI projects, it is true that many disband after their term ends, but that is not always the case. The Globalization & Autonomy project, for example, served as the foundation for the Institute on Globalization and the Human Condition. Regardless, though, I don't understand why longevity would be relevant to notability in the first place. The fact that one organization is "permanent and endowed" may make it more notable than another that is not, but this does not entail that the latter lacks notability. Persistence is not a criterion for inclusion in Wikipedia. – SJL 18:03, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, I'm aware that sometimes MCRIs are turned into permanent institutions. (For what it's worth, I happen to be good friends with one of the former directors of the McMaster project.) If that were to happen in this case, as I say, then things would change. I think it's fairly clear why a permanent center is likely to be more notable than a limited-term project. --jbmurray (talkcontribs) 18:12, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It may be the case that a permanent centre is more notable than a limited-term project, but the standard for inclusion on Wikipedia is notability, not relative notability. My argument is that some subjects that do not meet all of the current notability criteria can still be reasonably described as notable in a way that is consistent with the principle underlying that standard. – SJL 18:44, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I am sorry that you are unable to access the article, but the link does work. There is no freely available version, so that link is to the permanent URL in the ProQuest archive (as requested, I have provided a description of the article's contents on the Ethnicity and Democratic Governance talk page).
Also, while I see where you are coming from when you say that the notability standard is necessary and is not arbitrary, I don't think that this is sufficient reason not to consider that the standard may prevent an accurate assessment of notability in cases like this. – SJL 18:03, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Merge, with Amazon.com#Controversies and redirect to False advertising. The main point of contention of this discussion was if the article could have a neutral point off view when calling the examples it discusses "tricks". This is especially problematic since the majority of the article deals with a single retailer, which prompted Neon white's description of this article as as a coatrack for criticism of Amazon. Furthermore, all the sources discuss particular examples of controversial sales tactics but do not discuss "online sales tricks" as a general subject. In light of this focus on a single retailer and lack of sources discussing the subject in general, I think a merge is the best option. Tim Vickers (talk) 04:08, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Online sales tricks[edit]

Online sales tricks (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Seems to be a neologism with an arbitrary set of examples. ZimZalaBim talk 17:45, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, they are common words with a straighforward meaning. That doesn't make it encyclopedic. Unless reliable sources consider this a unique term of art, it remains simply an arbitrary concept with arbitrary examples. (IE, we don't have an article on "barnyard animals" or "finding a parking spot" or other random collections of concepts). --ZimZalaBim talk 20:40, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Please see Parking guidance and information for an article about finding a parking spot. Barnyard animals are covered by the List of domesticated animals. Colonel Warden (talk) 21:13, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think you missed the point there by some way. The point is that not all phrases are notable. It has to demonstrate it by sourcing. --neon white talk 21:53, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed. --ZimZalaBim talk 23:21, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No. Wikipedia is not a dictionary, phrase book or glossary and so the article title is not significant. The topic of the article is underhand sales techniques used in online selling. The notability of this topic has been established by the sources which explicitly and specfically discuss this topic. Colonel Warden (talk) 09:06, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Coatrack? What are the coats? Seems to me that all the naysayers have is a gut feel that the article is not encyclopedic and so are just fishing around for some excuse to delete it. As soon as one bad argument is rebutted, they immediately switch to another one. Colonel Warden (talk) 09:10, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Read WP:COATRACK for more info, the article claims to be about 'online sales tricks' (a highly POV term in itself) but the majority of the article seems to be an attack on amazon.com based on an editorial piece. This article reads and feels like it was created to promote the highly non-neutral view that that amazon is dishonest rather than adding it the amazon.com article where it would be far more neutral. On top of that there isn't enough to suggest the subject is notable. Writings on a particular example might make those notable but to associate them together under one banner that hasn't been covered in any sources is original research. --neon white talk 15:19, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The nomination states that the article has an "arbitrary set of examples". Now you say that it is an attack upon Amazon. The argument for deletion is evidently incoherent. Colonel Warden (talk) 15:44, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I did not write the nomination, that post has nothing to do with me. User:ZimZalaBim nominated the article. --neon white talk 15:49, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with most of that, what it boils down to is that if these techniques have been deemed illegal than we can say they are illegal but we shouldn't be making moral judgements on them. I don't believe the article can ever be neutral with the current title. In my opinion some of the info could go in an article about online sales tactics, marketing etc. --neon white talk 15:28, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Articles are not required to be of interest or useful to you. Colonel Warden (talk) 09:12, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'm sure you wouldn't have created it if you didn't think it was interesting, but then people create articles for all sorts of reasons, and not all of them fall within the scope of what WP is - this one being a case in point. Ohconfucius (talk) 14:40, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The matter seemed notable rather than interesting. You, yourself are currently working upon an article about a particular noodle shop. I applaud your effort but fail to see why one topic is more or less worthy of inclusion here. Colonel Warden (talk) 15:05, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Considering that the article references well-known sources, perhaps the content could be moved to a more appropriate article pertaining to questionable business practices. (This is my first AfD discussion, so I guess I qualify as a newbie here.) Gmazeroff (talk) 15:11, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • That is a sensible suggestion. The convention here is to summarise your recommendation in bold like this: Merge. Colonel Warden (talk) 15:23, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete (all delete votes) --JForget 00:47, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Peter J. Deperro[edit]

Peter J. Deperro (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Delete. Non-notable subject. No sources at all. Little assertions of notability. Article is written by User:Peter.deperro, so obvious conflict of interest is present. "Peter J. Deperro" gets nine google hits (Most of which are related Wikipedia links) and "Peter Deperro" gets fourteen. Also of note: This article was tagged for notability and being an autobiography, and prodded for being a "nonnotable person; fluff piece." In addition to removing the prod, User:Peter.deperro made a "minor change" that removed the maintenance tags with no explanation why. CyberGhostface (talk) 17:33, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Nomination withdrawn --JForget 00:44, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Thirst[edit]

The Thirst (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable. Article only has one source meaning poor reliability. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 17:29, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have now worked these into the article, and also added sourced mentions of their appearance at the SXSW festival and their live session on BBC 6 Music. There's no way this should be deleted.--Michig (talk) 20:01, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Withdraw per research by Michig. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 12:34, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep. Wizardman 04:03, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Briganté[edit]

Briganté (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable. Only the BBC inline citation works properly. Not reliable. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 17:28, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep. RFerreira (talk) 21:09, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Blood[edit]

The Blood (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable. Only sources are self-published. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 17:26, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep. RFerreira (talk) 21:12, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Snapdragons[edit]

The Snapdragons (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable band. No inline cites means zero reliability. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 17:22, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Delete --JForget 00:43, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My Fair Lady (2009 film)[edit]

My Fair Lady (2009 film) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Wouldn't it be loverly? Unfortunately, there's a bit of WP:CRYSTAL going on here. From the research I did, it appears Keira Knightley is considering this project -- she has not signed up for it, nor has not received the green light. I'd love to discuss this further, but I'm getting married in the morning... Ecoleetage (talk) 17:20, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is already a brief citation of this planned project in the article for the 1964 film. And I don't know about "somewhat likely," since there isn't even a script, just an idea. It doesn't pass WP:CRYSTAL. It is still too early to say "I think she's got it!" Ecoleetage (talk) 19:37, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps merge and redirect to here for the time being? --Happy editing! Sincerely, Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 19:49, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep. RFerreira (talk) 21:13, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tits of Death[edit]

Tits of Death (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable. Label is redlinked. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 17:14, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

...and there's more coverage out there: [24], [25], [26].--Michig (talk) 17:47, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
More coverage? Awwwww...oh, that kind of coverage? nevermind. --UsaSatsui (talk) 20:46, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Withdrawn with consensus to keep. Non-admin closure. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters(ChirpsClamsChowder) 18:33, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Oxfam Glamour Models[edit]

The Oxfam Glamour Models (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable band. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 17:11, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge. seresin ( ¡? ) 02:27, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Contempo (band)[edit]

Contempo (band) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable Hard-Fi related cruft. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 17:10, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete.

In general, the reasons given in the closure of this AfD apply mutatis mutandis. Moreover, this article has additional policy problems which the "keep" opinions fail to adequately address: most content is unverifiable, sourced either to "the games and their manuals" in general or to a small number of unreliable sources. Also, its scope and subject brings it into conflict with WP:NOTGUIDE, a policy.

To the extent that a very concise summary of this content (about one paragraph) is required to adequately explain the game within the scope of an encyclopedia, it may be restored for selective merging to Pokémon or another article – as soon as reliable, specific sources are provided.  Sandstein  17:50, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pokémon types[edit]

Pokémon types (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Still appears to be a "detailed" wholly in-world game guide information that really should only belong on a FAQ page. Salavat (talk) 17:07, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

*Delete and transwiki to a strategy guide Wiki of some sort — Wikipedia is not a game guide. Also, none of the articles referenced establish any out–of–universe notability. MuZemike (talk) 17:51, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • I completely disagree as far as the sources are concerned. None of the sources are verifiable. The serebii.net and TRsRockin.com sites are basically Pokemon fansites. The review from GameFAQs seems like it's from a user and not from a staff member or any other verifiable journalist. (It has already been determined here that references to GameFAQs should only be used for release data.) MuZemike (talk) 00:22, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • MuZemike is right—the references in the article come from two places: serebii.net and trsrockin, both of which are fan sites. The sourcing in this article is very weak. Pagrashtak 02:54, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • If users want more in-depth information on how Pokemon game mechanics work, that is what Wikia, StrategyWiki, Bulbapedia, etc. are for. Wikipedia is not a game guide; this is made clear in WP:NOTGUIDE. MuZemike (talk) 21:23, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Not to be rude Le Grand Roi but you quote that Five Pillars thing in every AFD related to cruft, in the exact same format. I feel that you may be trying to increase the amounts of keeps on the page? Salavat (talk) 04:58, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Le Grand Roi: as found in the essay WP:JNN, with which I think you are familiar, stating keep due to notability is not helpful if you do not also explain why it is notable. As it stands, your keep statement does nothing to help me gauge if I need to reconsider my stance. Pagrashtak 05:10, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, IMO the article could be summed up:
Pokemon types are special attributes that all pokemon have and can prove to be a strength or weakness when in battle with another pokemon. These types also apply to the various moves which pokemon have, eg pickachu might have an electric type move. In the anime series the strength and weaknesses are also evident, however not always do the follow "rules", these rules do differ from game to anime, but are mostly similar. To create a balance each move has its weaknesses and strengths, with all of this creating a balanced gameplay within the games.
Although maybe something a bit more thought out in regards to wording, this sorta thing doesnt need to go into depth. Salavat (talk) 05:13, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • How is it notable? Are there any verifiable, third-party sources you can reference to prove its notability? MuZemike (talk) 08:37, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Redirect to All the Right Reasons --JForget 00:41, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Follow You Home[edit]

Follow You Home (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable. Never released as single therefore never charted. Insignificant media coverage. No references or inline cites means zero reliability. Fancruft. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 16:48, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. Wizardman 03:50, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Next Contestant[edit]

Next Contestant (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable. Never released as single therefore never charted. Insignificant media coverage. No references or inline cites means zero reliability. Fancruft. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 16:47, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. PhilKnight (talk) 13:07, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Psychophysical Paradox[edit]

Psychophysical Paradox (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Apparently little-used term: original research? Of the 9 Google hits [28], four are from Wikipedia itself, and three appear to use the phrase to mean something other than the subject of the article. In addition, at least one of the references given seems to be related to something else entirely, with the only similarity being the use of the word "psychophysical", another is an ArXiv preprint, and a third is behind a paywall, and thus not easily reviewed. The remaining reference (Klein) does appear to be about the general topic of psychophysics and mind-body duality, but does not use the word "psychophysical" anywhere. The Anome (talk) 16:25, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks, this is THE highest exception. the Psychophysical Paradox is of such an overwhelmingly fundamental, historical, scientific, philosophic, even theologic significance and importance and value, and since it pertains to the VERY BASICS of our understanding (or lack, thereof) of ourselves and the "World" - that I was amazed that the article did not exist at all, for which reason I created it! --Shimon Yanowitz (talk) 17:39, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please help me with placing a request for more references, such as - "This References and Citations section is only a stub (or is incomplete etc) You can help by expanding it". I prefer this - to the Military-like message of "This article has failed in providing References and Citations, and shall, thus, be Court-Marshalled and Executed by a Firing-Squad". in other words, I am looking for a template that requests expansion, rather than one that points to its abscence. Thanks. --Shimon Yanowitz (talk) 18:03, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • You rest my case! First, your false claim that "This is one of the basic question of epistemology and" - describes beatifully the fundamental importance and significance of the unresolved problem, but it is false since the subject encompasses much more than epistemology. Second, quoting your "in a verifiable manner" - demonstrates beatifully your complete miscomprehension of the problem. Who are "you"? What is "you"? What makes "you" "capable" of "Verifiable"? What is "Verifiable"? Can "you" "prove" that anything is "Verifiable"? What is the "relation" of the "Verifiable" of "you" - to the "real-world"? Who is this clown entity? I suggest that he (she) be "Deleted" from this discussion ! --Shimon Yanowitz (talk) 19:01, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • If you are unfamiliar with the term, it does not necessarily imply that it is wrong, or that it does not exist, or that there is a better term. It may actually imply that you are a complete ignorant about this subject. I claim that I know better. This "trigger-happy" approach to article deletion is questionable, in the sense that "Donald Duck" can vote to delete an article by Albert Einstein. --Shimon Yanowitz (talk) 19:07, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • After I have received some useful explanations about Stub-Categories, courtesy of Marcel Douwe Dekker, I suggest that you organize the categories in a manner that seems appropriate to you. The Contents of the Article is of far greater importance than its categorization. So, please Categorize as seems appropriate, and let's finish with this Deletion stuff. Thanks,--Shimon Yanowitz (talk) 19:08, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • It escapes me why you have decided that it could easily be confused with Psychophysics which psychologists have been studying since the 1870s. The confusion is yours! These terms are inherently related. One, is from the point of view of Philosophy, while the other is from the point of view of Physics. Hence, the term - "Psych-o-Physical"! They refer to the same multidisciplinary problem! That goes to solidify my case. On the other hand - I would be happy to get some advice and tips about the diffrences between an Article, and an Essay - so that I know what to avoid. Thanks. --Shimon Yanowitz (talk) 21:28, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Now Since you have mentioned the article - Psychophysics, I wanted to add it to the "See also" section of my article. Unfortunately, I have discovered (as expected) that the author(s) of that article had addressed the issue from the viewpoint of Psychology only! Obviously, confined to their discipline, they have failed to realize the much more vast, broader, wider and comprehensive nature of this subject, which encompassing, or is implicated in, a multitude of Scientific Disciplines, particularly (but not limited to) Physics. Isn't it obvious that Psychophysics, or Psych-o-Physics - has something to do with Physics? That article needs some urgent corrections, before it can assumes its full, broad spectrum and perspective. --Shimon Yanowitz (talk) 04:54, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Don't forget those movies where there's a mad scientist doing "psycho-physics"Edison (talk) 20:40, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Request for Help in Choosing the Best, of The 63,800 "Verifiable" Reference Books and Papers on the Psychophysical Paradox (or Problem or Debate)

Thanks,

--Shimon Yanowitz (talk) 14:50, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


  • and, here are the google scholar results http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22Psychophysical+paradox%22&hl=en&lr=&btnG=Search 2 articles, one of which is about neuroscience, so again I am pretty sure that is the same way psychologists use the term psychophysics. This is a non notable term, plain and simple. Dbrodbeck (talk) 15:11, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neuroscience? Excellent, Bring this reference on! Would there be "You" without Neurons in your brain? as regards Psychology, what, the hell, does this have to do with it? Perhaps you meant Psychiatry? See my previous comment above. Again, have you understood anything at all, regarding what this article is about? --Shimon Yanowitz (talk) 15:37, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please be civil. Psychology studies psychophysics. Psychology also studies neurons. The term 'psychphysical paradox' is not notable. It shows up in two articles and three books (on google anyway).Dbrodbeck (talk) 15:53, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Delete. BJTalk 03:36, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bilkent IEEE Student Branch[edit]

Bilkent IEEE Student Branch (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

I am under the impression that this article is not Notable as per wikipedia guidelines. Smcbuet (talk) 08:54, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Keep. BJTalk 23:22, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

VoicePulse[edit]

VoicePulse (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable company per WP:CORP; article has existed for a very long time without improvement. It was kept at AfD before purely on the basis of google hits, despite it being an advertisement. Mangojuicetalk 15:57, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I looked at the refs, and they appear to mention VoicePulse as one of a number of reviewed suppliers. Any magazine reviewing VOIP might chance on VoicePulse and review it, but to my mind that doesn't make it notable unless it wins awards or even a reasonable client base. Is there any indication how many people use it, what percentage of total usage that may represent, or whether VoicePulse innovates in any way? These would make it notable, rather than a few trade press reviews. TrulyBlue (talk) 21:19, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Delete --JForget 00:39, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Arcanists[edit]

Arcanists (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

This article does not cite any sources, and is orphaned in the way of links from other articles. It isn't really notable enough to warrant having a seperate article of its own, however parts of the article could be merged with the FunOrb article. ۩ Dracion ۩ ✎ ✉ 15:51, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was keep. Wizardman 03:52, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pennin Manathai Thottu[edit]

Pennin Manathai Thottu (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Reason for nomination unknown; completing incomplete AfD. --Geniac (talk) 13:53, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, IRK!Leave me a note or two 15:51, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was speedy delete (CSD G4, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/You Know What They Do to Guys Like Us in Prison (2nd nomination)) Mangojuicetalk 15:53, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cemetery Drive[edit]

Cemetery Drive (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable. Not released as single. No significant media coverage. No cites or references means zero reliability. Fancruft. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 15:50, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete as unverifiable per WP:V. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 19:09, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dreams of Stabbing and/or Being Stabbed[edit]

Dreams of Stabbing and/or Being Stabbed (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

A bootleg that was never released. "The full track listing is debated...", "but these songs were definitely released...". The article name is arbitrary. Is this a fan attributed name? No inline cites or references = zero reliability. Fancruft. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 15:45, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Wizardman 03:53, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Final RIOT! Tour[edit]

The Final RIOT! Tour (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Not-notable. Regular home nation concert tour. No sources = zero reliability. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 15:40, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Redirect to Cisman Mahmoud. Tim Vickers (talk) 03:50, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bah Dhulbahante[edit]

Bah Dhulbahante (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Incoherent, nn. Placed speedy deletion tags which were promptly deleted. Lusantian (talk) 15:39, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy deleted and salted, per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Exopolitics (2nd nomination), and comments below. -- The Anome (talk) 16:41, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Exopolitics[edit]

Exopolitics (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

In my opinion, the worldview conveyed in this article is covered effectively in other articles, while this article conveys the inaccurate impression that it is nonfiction. FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 15:31, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I dont agree that this is represented as definate non-fiction. The aim was to put forward the claims of individuals and their reasoning behind it. I feel that there are a reasonable amount of sources for what i have mentioned but I do not think that I have represented the information as 100% fact nor implied that it is conventional opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theevolutionofconsciousness (talkcontribs) 15:37, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I do think that this encyclopedia should have this type of information available. I dont think that people's professional opinions should be ignored just because they are unconventional. You should still allow other people research to be put forward. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theevolutionofconsciousness (talkcontribs) 15:44, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also the other articles that mention et intelligence are not adequately networked. That was one of the main purposes of making this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theevolutionofconsciousness (talkcontribs) 15:46, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I meant that if someone went on wikipedia there isnt a page that talks about the overall claims of these people. so if u just wanted to research claims of et activity there isnt a page that links to the other ones like this one does. I am happy to edit the whole page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theevolutionofconsciousness (talkcontribs) 16:31, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. No actual argument was put forth establishing the notability of these bridges within the current Wikipedia notability guideline. There is no sub-guideline for bridges, so statments that they are notable because they are old has no merit. Notification of Wikiprojects is by no means a requirement, rather a courtesy, and therefore has no bearing here. WP:USEFUL covers the other baseless support comments. seresin ( ¡? ) 02:37, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion overturned at deletion review here. lifebaka (talk - contribs) 19:08, 28 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Turners Falls Road Bridge[edit]

Turners Falls Road Bridge (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Completely, totally, utterly non-notable bridge. It isn't even the main bridge across this particular river to this small town (that'd be the Gill - Montague Bridge, a bit under a half-mile away). The bridge is not a link to a highway, principal or otherwise, nor are there any sources, reliable or otherwise; even the article admits the bridge is "nondescript." Only 17 Google hits [32], all of them this article and various Wiki mirrors. As far as I can figure, the sole purpose of this article is that someone's been creating them for bridges across the Connecticut River, no matter how insignificant ... and not always accurately: the name of the town is, in fact, "Turners Falls." A redirect to Turners Falls, Massachusetts was reverted with the comment "this is a bridge, not a place." Fails WP:V, WP:N.  RGTraynor  15:07, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following related pages, all of which completely fail as to sourcing and notability:

Springfield Terminal railroad bridge, Deerfield (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Joseph E. Muller Bridge (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Route 10 bridge, Northfield, Massachusetts (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Rail Bridge, Northfield, Massachusetts (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Amtrak/Springfield Terminal Railroad Bridge (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

There are numerous other such articles, although a number of the crossing articles have better claims to notability, but that will do for now.  RGTraynor  15:24, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Reply: The legal municipality is named "Montague," yes, in the same way that the legal name of Rhode Island is "Rhode Island and Providence Plantations," but claiming that anything short isn't the real name would be pedantry at its worst. Turners Falls has over half the population of the five villages that comprise Montague (a political amalgamation unique to Massachusetts, but that's another story), the police station's there, the fire station's there, the local high school is Turners Falls High School, the town offices are there, and so on.  RGTraynor  16:20, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Take it up with the state of Massachusetts, or with the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, but that's the situation. - Denimadept (talk) 17:49, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding the bridges you mention, well, that's an opinion. We'll see what consensus is. You'll notice that there is a reference for this bridge. The main bridge, as you call it, for this area is about to be shut down for long overdue replacement. How, while that bridge is out, will the people cross the river in this area? This bridge could be considered the backup.
I gave up on documenting all the Connecticut River bridges because of this kind of attitude. While I continue, it's for my own purposes, external to the Wikipedia project. - Denimadept (talk) 15:45, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Allow me to quote from WP:V: "The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged should be attributed to a reliable, published source using an inline citation. The source should be cited clearly and precisely to enable readers to find the text that supports the article content in question. Editors should cite sources fully, providing as much publication information as possible, including page numbers when citing books. If no reliable, third-party sources can be found for an article topic, Wikipedia should not have an article on it." The general notability guideline holds: "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be notable.
As far as the mass nomination goes, three of the articles listed above have no text whatsoever; they just have photos of the bridges, an infobox and a crossing template. The other two have three bare lines of text between them, saying nothing more than "This bridge crosses the Connecticut between X and Y." The most recently created of these articles is almost a year old, and only the first one listed has seen work since last October. I see no reason to presume further improvement possible, and challenge anyone wishing to save the articles to show evidence to the contrary.  RGTraynor  16:25, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - the nominator is local to the Connecticut River, which gives him some interest, but is apparently not interested in bridges as such. That's okay, it's good to have a bit of perspective contributed by someone with no interest, to some degree. I'm interested in bridges enough to have taken pictures of all the Connecticut River bridges personally, and to have acquired images of some of them which are gone, but in some cases wasn't able to easily find much (or any) information on them. I started some articles just so there'd be a starting point either for me later or for others. But previous AfD proposals have stopped me from creating more such articles, regardless. That's why there are a number of redlinks in the List of crossings of the Connecticut River. I got the images, started thinking about articles, and was stopped cold by an AfD. Instead, any such research will go into a book proposal of my own, maybe. Anyway, the image for the Route 10 bridge, Northfield, Massachusetts is kinda neat. - Denimadept (talk) 18:25, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: (coughs) No "sneaking" was done; in point of fact, the span of time between the first nomination and the final one is all of 17 minutes, which time I spent looking over the 47 articles on the list and picked out six that were egregious violators. Notification of Wikiprojects is a courtesy only (and I can imagine about a dozen Wikiprojects that could be construed to have an interest), and plainly the message is getting out to yours. That being said, Wikipedia policy and guideline applies Wikipedia-wide, and individual projects don't get to set aside the requirements of WP:V or WP:N; certainly the projects to which I belong do not. Were such considerations valid, which they are not, I figure that having seen each and every one of these bridges with my own eyes and having driven over three of them matters at least as much to assess their notability than belonging to WP:BRIDGE.  RGTraynor  18:40, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I went ahead and also tagged to (2) other railroad bridges with WikiProject Massachusetts. An objective criteria would be to have the relevant WikiProjects at least assess the corresponding bridges and determine whether or not they will "make the cut-off" of bridge articles which one or more of the relevant WikiProjects would take ownership of. Has anyone taken the time to inventory which Wikipedia articles link to them? Deleting them would red-line the articles which link to them as well as break the stream of navigation boxes at the bottom of related articles. Also for instance Connecticut Historic Bridge Inventory, Historic Bridge List Historic Metal Truss Bridges in Massachusetts I believe has the (Massachusetts) railroad truss bridges on it as Historic bridges, I did not check the National Registry of Historic Places, Historic American Building Survey or Historic American Engineering Record, but I would not be surprised if at least one or more were. Writing about them is a bit lower on my list (after Alaska, Pacific Northwest in general, and Ohio, but I have a personal interest in New England - my sister's family) and I can provide you with quick searches or more reference links i.e. tell me what you need and I can provide you with the reference links you will need to fill in the details. I believe a better long-term answer might be to move certain articles or content to a different Wiki rather than deleting them "forever" from Wikipedia. To me, that the railroad bridges are "notable" and "historic" is a "no-brainer". The road ones I am less sure about (someone should check the inventories above - as well as NRHP, HABS, HAER, HALS) LeheckaG (talk) 18:53, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: First off, I am not finding your project's defined criteria; would you mind providing a link? Secondly, whatever those may be, no Wikiproject can override WP:V's fundamental requirement of reliable sources about the subject.  RGTraynor  22:21, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The argument that "This bridge is notable because it follows one built in 1871" would mean that "My house is notable if it follows a house built on the site in 1871" which would be clearly a losing argument in an AFD. The argument seems to also say that a bridge in a location is somehow the same "bridge" as one which previously existed near the location. Is it the structure or the site which the article covers, and how far away can the previous one be for them to be the "same bridge?" Edison (talk) 12:42, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In this particular case, the current bridge was built specifically to replace the damaged former bridge. --Polaron | Talk 13:22, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Being "built a long time ago" or "having some history" would also apply to many churches and elementary schools, whose articles have been deleted overwhelmingly in AFDs. Some satisfaction of WP:N is needed, besides handwaving and saying "notable enough." Edison (talk) 20:33, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I added a few more details to the road bridges infoboxes, and provided Denimadept with a few possible places to look for more details. Both Connecticut and Massachusetts appear to have a State interest in historic bridges. I have not gotten around to researching and updating the railroad bridges, but just glancing at them (the railroad ones) - they are probably on one or more historic lists. If someone knows of a good "authoritative" source for researching railroad bridges, it would be a good thing to post here and and WP bridges and WP trains. LeheckaG (talk) 21:08, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reply: The problem is that Wikipedia requires, per WP:V, articles to have sources. Several of these articles had none at all, and two still have none. Obviously I can't help it if the Keep proponents ignore this fundamental requirement - a lost cause is a lost cause - but I resent the suggestion that there's some problem in taking clear policy violations to AfD.  RGTraynor  02:17, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question: are you denying the existence of certain bridges? - Denimadept (talk) 04:19, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I do not read that WP:V requires sources be entered into the article (in-line or otherwise) for every fact presented, or for the article in general. No, it requires that information entered in an article be verifiable. If a new article is written that says John Doe is the author of a new book titled Doe, A Deer, the average reader should be able to use Amazon.com to verify such a book exists (if/when they question the article). Just as the average reader should be able to verify the existence of the bridge by clicking on the lat/long link and looking at any of the commercial map sources that come up.
WP:V does say that sources must be provided for imformation challenged (or likely to be challenged). So are you saying that the AfD nomination is a challenge to all information in the article? I still haven't got the whole system down, so help me out here. Isn't the lack of references a reason to tag the article as Unreferenced, not a reason to put it up for deletion.
I acknowledge that there was/is information in these articles that could have had a reference given. I have added some in this weekend. I also see now that Wikipedia:WikiProject Bridges could use some better guidelines for WP:Notability. A lot of this could have been avoided if the stub articles had started together under something like Connecticut River Crossings in Franklin County, Massachusetts (possibly with redirects from individual bridge titles) and developed there until they were worth standing on their own. - PennySpender1983 (talk) 06:05, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Keep. Synergy 00:36, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Man Who Stepped into Yesterday[edit]

The Man Who Stepped into Yesterday (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

This is an article on a senior thesis by Trey Anastasio. This is a bootleg, and as such is unofficial and prone unreliable claims. Article itself has insufficient inline citations and is unreliable. Non-notable fancruft. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 15:04, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • This is a bootleg so no reliable circulation figures exist. You cannot reliably comment on circulation. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 15:12, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't really think that circulation figures are the only basis of notability. See these sources. — MusicMaker5376 15:26, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Aronson,Anne, "Phish Set Off Fireworks in Camden", Rolling Stone, July 6, 2000
"Tom Marshall Amfibian 6-16-07 Philadelphia", Go Kids NJ, June 18, 2007 — MusicMaker5376 15:29, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There is nothing "unofficial" about this album. It was never released because it was recorded in college. The songs were staples of their concerts. — MusicMaker5376 15:30, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Keep. Tim Vickers (talk) 03:44, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

XYZ (band)[edit]

XYZ (band) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

A "proposed name for an abortive supergroup". This is not notable. I.e. this was never even a band, but a name for a band. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 14:47, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Merge and redirect to Led Zeppelin European Tour 1970. Non-admin closure. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters(ChirpsClamsChowder) 16:00, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Nobs[edit]

The Nobs (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Led Zeppelin played under this name during a concert tour in Copenhagen. This is a nice vignette, but not notable as a freestanding article. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 14:45, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not quite sure why the page I created for "The Nobs" would not be a notable freestanding article, and 'Led Zeppelin 1970 European Tour' would be. The incident surrounding the use of Led Zeppelin's temporary name was noteworthy and detailed enough to include many specifics. Despite including legitimate references for my sources, the article I created has basically been modified (removal of important points regarding use of "The Nobs"), extended, and simply given a different title. Someone felt it was significant enough to make all the changes for a redirect - Because if it's not, then it should be deleted altogether. A more reasonable explanation for all of these alterations would be appreciated. Yobbo14 (talk) 01:52, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. John254 03:45, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Germantown, Quincy, Massachusetts[edit]

Germantown, Quincy, Massachusetts (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

The article is, uh, garbage. Twofistedcoffeedrinker (talk) 14:43, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep, now. Heh, I'm happy that Polaron did the work I was too lazy to do today. It's at least a usable stub now, and there's more that will be added.  RGTraynor  03:39, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • That is only a proposed guideline. And even then, the topic is notable according to that proposal because the topic is discussed in a few books and magazine articles, e.g. "A History of Old Braintree and Quincy" (W.S. Pattee). The current state of the article should not be the primary gauge of notability of a topic. --Polaron | Talk 17:45, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Merge (non-admin closure). The article should be merged to Club Penguin. Ruslik (talk) 18:35, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Penguin Chat[edit]

Penguin Chat (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Fails WP:WEB. SchuminWeb (Talk) 14:31, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge. Bearian (talk) 15:43, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Trey Anastasio (band)[edit]

Trey Anastasio (band) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable. No inline cites or references. Unreliable. Any useful information should be merged to Trey Anastasio, per the Ozzy Osbourne band being in Ozzy Osbourne. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 14:03, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't want a merge, but my point was really that this info should be in the artist's article anyway. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 14:38, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Wizardman 03:55, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Macedonian Cross[edit]

Macedonian Cross (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Unsourced stub about a type of ornamental cross that some people seem to want to stylize into a national-relgious symbol. It is apparently true that some people in the Macedonian Orthodox Church have used this design for a medal of some sort (see this article [36] which seems to be talking about that and from where the original illustration of our page was also stolen). But the claim that this is a traditional and specifically Macedonian ornament, that it has been "discovered" in several churches (how? was it hidden or unknown previously?), and that it has been discussed as such by "international archaeologists" seems unsubstantiated (I don't know if that newspaper article makes claims to that effect, but I'd be wary about accepting it as a reliable source anyway.) Most likely, this is an entirely non-notable movement by some small group of inventing a symbol for themselves. Fut.Perf. 14:01, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Keep and merge (non-admin closure). The article should be merged to Trey Anastasio. Ruslik (talk) 18:19, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Trey Anastasio Band[edit]

Trey Anastasio Band (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable. This is "unofficial name" of Trey Anastasio's touring band. Non inline cites or references. Not reliable. Anything of use can be merged to Trey Anastasio. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 14:00, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete, i'll userfy if requested. Wizardman 03:57, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hazrat Sayed Mohammad Ameer Shah Al Qadri Al Gillani (Moulvee Jee)[edit]

Hazrat Sayed Mohammad Ameer Shah Al Qadri Al Gillani (Moulvee Jee) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Just created. I didn't know what to make of it, but if I had to guess I'd say it's unsourced stuff. Google turns up nothing for "Hazrat Sayed Mohammad Ameer Shah Al Qadri Al Gillani" or "Moulvee Jee" Adoniscik(t, c) 13:52, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think google is not the only source of information . There have been many other sources of information when there used to be no google at all.I have lots of works of Hazarat Mohammad Ameer Shah but mostly are in urdu and now many people will team up to add to this article.Website is under development the data is being gathered and being translated into english finally it will be dumped here on wiki which will later on used to populate the contents of the website. mean while see this link http://search.yahoo.com/search?ei=utf-8&fr=slv8-msgr&p=moulvijie&type=

and http://hindko.pk/bod.html ...a student mentioning his name at his own website http://drahmad.org/page2.htm If any other information is needed do contact me here or at shiz409@yahoo.com. Regards —Preceding unsigned comment added by Qadri409 (talkcontribs) 08:11, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For one thing, the article is a mess. Please acquaint yourself with wiki formatting and the WP:MOS. Secondly, we need to be able to verify the contents of the article, which means reliable sources. I don't see much in Google for any "founder of Qadria". --Adoniscik(t, c) 15:40, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, that helps me decide. If all you have for support is one web forum with less than two dozen posts I would have to say this article fails the notability test. --Adoniscik(t, c) 16:28, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. I thought maybe Google Books would have something...it does. On page 49 of Shah Latif and His Message we find "The Qadria Sect. The founder of this sect was Sheikh Mohyuddin Abu Muhammad Abdul Qadir bin Saleh Musa Jilani. He was born inn 470 Hijra (1077 AD) and died in 861 Hijra (1166 AD)". This is in disagreement with your article. Does it refer to a different sect by the same name? WE need more information; this is why I am pressing for reliable sources. (Please add your responses after mine instead of revising your previous ones.) --Adoniscik(t, c) 22:18, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

please read again i have clearly said that Sayed Mohammad Ameer Shah is the decendent of Hazrat shiekh Abdul Qadir Jilani http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Qadir_Jelani & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul-Qadir_Gilani. the founder of Qadria order ...Secondly qadria is not a sect its a sufi order http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qadri ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qadiriyyah as far as the text formating is concerned i do accept i am not good at it that i can correct ...the problem with the data here is that most of the books are in urdu , under translation ....sayed Mohammad Ameer Shah remained the Founding Patron: Syed Mohammad Ameer Shah Qadri Gilani and his son Patron:Syed Noorul Hassnain Gilani that you can confirm from, http://hindko.pk/bod.html... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Qadri409 (talkcontribs) 20:15, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

'Delete. So we are discussing "Sayed Mohammad Ameer Shah Qadri Gilani" who happens to be a descendant of Abdul-Qadir Gilani. I see they even have a Web site... I suggest you start a new section under Abdul-Qadir Gilani for his descendants. If you can find enough reliable sources to write at length, we can split it off into a new article. --Adoniscik(t, c) 03:34, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I realy appreciate your hard work ..very much oblieged and impressed to see your efforts and interest in getting the right information on wikipedia,,, let me mention that the website you have refered gvies information about another Ameer Shah Qadri who passed as mentoined on the site "He died in 1692 A.D (1102 H) and buried at Hujra Shah Muqeem." He passed in the mughal era as mentioned on the site " During his stay at Delhi, Emperor Alamgir came to meet him but he went to toilet before arrival of Badshah. Alamgir waited some time and then sent his son to enquire about him. He came back with this news that Syed Sahib has disappeared. So Alamgir come back without any meeting with him. After this incident when his search begun, a strange thing come in to knowledge of residents of Delhi that Syed Muhammad Ameer Gilani was sitting on Qutab Minar. "

Your suggestion is valauable about starting a subsection on Abdul-Qadir Gilani ..it needs much more time to gvie all the missing links Sayed Muhammad Ameer Shah is the decendent of Shiekh Abdul Qadir Jeelani at 24th generation..

This family belongs to the Hazrat sayed Abdul Razaq who was the son of Hazarat sheikh Abdul Qadir Jeelani and later on one of his decendent in 1060 Hijra came to Thatha in the sindh province of Pakistan name Hazarat Sayed Abdullah Shah Ashabi http://www.geocities.com/jawedom/memon.htm ...and http://wikimapia.org/6133070/Abdullah_shah_ashabi_tomb .To work out all these links and thier verification from web source might take ages for a person like me. can you guide me that how to put this page in invisible mode for the time being and when we have enough data we should put it online ??? Thanks again for your help .Regards —Preceding unsigned comment added by Qadri409 (talkcontribs) 12:33, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You should create a subpage (see also WP:Subpages). Please archive your writing before the article gets deleted. --Adoniscik(t, c) 14:25, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here are some more references. Books of Muhammad Amir shah Qadri Gilani are available even in catalogs of Library of Congress http://catalog.loc.gov/ You can search the name "Muhammad Amir shah" and you will easily find out at least following books (names of the books are also in Urdu)


  1. 1 Taskirah-yi ḥuffāẓ-i Pishāvar http://lccn.loc.gov/sa67003917
  1. 2 Tazkirah-yi ʼulamā va mashāʻikh-i sarḥad http://lccn.loc.gov/78931081
  1. 3 Maʻārif-i G̲h̲aus̲-i Aʻẓam : tarjumah va tashrīh-i Dīvān-i G̲h̲aus http://lccn.loc.gov/86930708
  1. 4 Taz̲kirah-yi Abūlbarakāt Sayyid Ḥasan Ṣāḥīb Qādrī Gīlānī http://lccn.loc.gov/84930044

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Masyed (talk • contribs)

Okay, good. Part of the problem is that this fellow's name seems to have several transliterations. Are there any English sources? --Adoniscik(t, c) 23:26, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here are some english sources http://breakingnews.augustachronicle.com/terrorism/stories/092601/926proof.html same interview at another link with graphics http://archive.southcoasttoday.com/daily/09-01/09-27-01/a02wn013.htm Another link to Prof Dr Muhammad Masud Ahmad research work which was translated by Prof. M.A . Qadir(Ex Principal Govt. Degree College, Sukkur, Sindh Pakistan) and is printed by IDARA-I-TAHQEEQAT-E_IMAM AH MED RAZA INTERNATIONAL (25-Japan Mansion, Regal (Raza) Chowk, Saddar Karachi)www.imamahmadraza.net in which he has given references on Page#34 line #26 , 27, 33 and on page # 45 line # 03 or 37th Reference in bibliography. http://www.geocities.com/shiz409/MoulviJieReference_DrMasaudThesis.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by Qadri409 (talkcontribs) 16:26, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also see this link about his demise news where governer of NWFP province condolence is given the source is PPI pakistan(From Pakistan Press International Information Services &COPYRIGHT 2004 Financial Times Ltd. Limited)& Publication: Asia Africa Intelligence Wire Publication Date: 28-OCT-04 http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-14203089_ITM —Preceding unsigned comment added by Qadri409 (talkcontribs) 22:17, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. John254 03:41, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Darcy LaPier[edit]

Darcy LaPier (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Notability concerns. Based on the article, and their record at IMDB, I'm not sure they pass WP:N. rootology (T) 13:46, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Nomination withdrawn --JForget 00:36, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Gamehendge[edit]

Gamehendge (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable. Verging on fancruft. No inline cites. No reliability. How can songs have a fictional setting. Any useful information can be merged into songs that are 'set' in Gamehendge. Tenacious D Fan (talk) 13:43, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What about these? This? This? Perhaps you couldn't find any because you didn't bother looking. — MusicMaker5376 18:26, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually I did bother looking, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered commenting. Phish.net appears to be a fansite, doesn't really count as an independent secondary reliable source. This book seems to cover it somewhat, and may count, but I'm not really seeing significant coverage. The article doesn't really show the subject to be notable either, in my opinion. If notability was clear from the article, and backed up by multiple reliable sources, I would possibly agree with keeping the article. I just can't see it meeting guidelines as it is.--BelovedFreak 02:09, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Phish.net is run by Ellis Godard, who also runs one of Phish's charities -- The Mockingbird Foundation. While working on Phish, we had the same question regarding Phish.net. Please see the discussions here, here, and here. It's billed as "Phans for Phans", but the guy who runs it has a close, personal relationship with the band. Generally, news updates, "What's going on with the band", things like that are taken with a grain of salt -- we (I) wait for third-party confirmation -- but it's a great source for all things Phish, historically.
This book, at some 800 pages and in its 14th Edition, is generally considered the authority on Phish. It is provided by The Mockingbird Foundation.
"Significant coverage", in this case must be looked at relatively. Phish, as a rule, did not receive the same kind of press as mainstream bands -- they had one video on MTV in a 20 year career -- and nonetheless were able to draw crowds of close to 100,000 fans. (See the picture of the crowd on The Lemonwheel -- that crowd was about mid-sized in their largest concerts.)
This song cycle is an extraordinarily notable aspect of their career. Its lore is woven through Phish's entire career. Songs from it would show up on playlists from time to time, but, as a whole, they were performed together, I believe, three times. Those shows are considered the holy grail of Phish -- the band that Rolling Stone called "the most important band of the nineties." — MusicMaker5376 03:34, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. Despite the good faith references, ELs, and other improvements, there's not enough information about the site from third-party, verifiable sources - not the same thing as information from the site about itself - to meet WP:WEB. KrakatoaKatie 05:38, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Square Enix Music Online[edit]

Square Enix Music Online (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Declined prod. Non-notable fansite. I found it on recent changes patrol and was going to CSD it but it seemed legitimate. It turns out it is not associated with Square Enix but rather is a distinct and non-notable entity. Plenty of web hits exist, but they are forums on the site itself, blogs, and regular hits point TO the site, not independent coverage ABOUT the site.  Frank  |  talk  13:38, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That really doesn't have any bearing on the notability of the site. There's plenty of places that warn against boots. There's plenty of places to find info for 'reliable' online stores. There's also plenty of articles on WP about places where one can easily pirate, to say nothing of buying bootlegs (you can buy them on Amazon if you're not careful). ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 00:20, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I hear your sympathy, but Wikipedia is not to be used as an advertisement vehicle; it's for verifiable information. MuZemike (talk) 00:28, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, if the issue is notability (which i did not know exactly beforehand), please explain further: i just read the notability guidelines and i want to know which point in particular you are talking about - and i don't see how this isn't verifiable information. the article is for general interest/information as well. and also, 'plenty of places'?: this is about the most well known website for this sort of information; just type it into google. other than these, i understand the points/concern; thank you for telling me. (and when i state these points, they are never intended to offend.) Andrelim1 (talk) 01:19, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If this is so, we need only to see the reliable sources that say so. Google hits are not necessarily reliable sources; notability should not be confused with popularity.  Frank  |  talk  02:06, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Added an external link from VG Frequency - presented by OverClocked ReMix, which is in Wikipedia as well. it talks about Chris/SEMO's website interview with a composer. will try to improve more. thanks Andrelim1 (talk) 02:25, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The webmaster would have a conflict on interest and his involvement would give the article less credibility, not more. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 11:31, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
i agree with you, but i'm not saying he is the one who's going to do the notability part. im saying that i believe he has received some praise about the site from various composers that have contacted him. i'm asking the webmaster simply because i don't have access to this secondary info. of course it would be ridiculous to ask him to state the notability of his site! and, is the link i have supplied before considered to be a reliable secondary source? it is a peer/similar website (powered by Overclocked) coverage praising SEMO's 'thorough interview'. do you consider that to be a sign of notability, considering OverClocked ReMix itself is in wikipedia (which means it should be reliable since it got there in the first place)? Andrelim1 (talk) 11:49, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That link made me take another look at the site -- I didn't see it before, but the sheet music section (and to a lesser point the downloads section, as they appear to be complete tracks) is clearly a copyvio. While as I said above, that's not an inherent reason to deny it an article on WP, but it's just another issue that needs to be considered. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 12:32, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
'These scans are provided solely for sampling use and as a reference resource for occasional arrangers, album reviewers, and piano players. If you need this sheet music often or for performance purposes, please support the artists by purchasing this book using the store links provided above.' there are links to purchase the sheet music, the website has already issued a disclaimer saying to support the artists. it promotes the sheet music. as far as i've seen, the downloads have all been about 20-30?sec samples(not sure about exact length but ive never seen a whole song). The disclaimer is clear; it is ultimately the responsibility of the downloader. i'm going to sleep, goodnight. hope it's notable enough. if not, the webmaster should be back in 3+ days. can't guarantee anything until then. Andrelim1 (talk) 12:59, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I checked out the main DL page and they are clearly full legnth tracks, at least on the 'featured of the week' ones. Also, adding a disclaimer that one should buy if they like doesn't mean you get around potential piracy issues; again, this may or may not have a complete bearing on the notability of the site, but blatently linking to such a site goes against the grain of what WP represents. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 16:21, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ok what does that mean now? forgive me; for i am unfamiliar with wikipedia conventions Andrelim1 (talk) 11:02, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It means that I'm noting to the person who decides the final result of this AFD that the first comments were directed toward a very different version of the page. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 12:21, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. IT notifies the admin handling this AfD that the content/structure of the article is different now than it was when it was nominated for AfD. It can be a good thing, as it tells the admin that a good-faith effort has been employed to save the article from deletion. MuZemike (talk) 19:15, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, there's still not a single reliable source showing a shred of notability in the article. I certainly agree that a good-faith effort has been employed to save the article from deletion, but unfortunately, the subject simply isn't notable, no matter how much effort is put into the article.  Frank  |  talk  21:23, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. That's why I said can be and not is. MuZemike (talk) 21:26, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
OK. Thank you for all your feedback and I appreciate all of your time. I know + understand that all of you are just doing your job, so definitely no hard feelings (as pretty much everyone is a Wikipedian). Nevertheless, I have two main concerns from your statements above addressed below: Andrelim1 (talk) 04:45, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Wizardman 04:01, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mister Dave's[edit]

Mister Dave's (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

It seems like this should be sourceable, but Google doesn't give any links besides directories. Can any locals help with adding history and removed promo language? I'd love to remove this delete vote. SarekOfVulcan (talk) 13:32, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As the person who originally nominated this for deletion I agree with you. I did some Web research and this business branched out into a frozen food businesss after the actual article business closed but it is a bit weak. I can appreciate that it is probably a well known eatery in the area but if there are no references then if flounders a bit. An example where this works is Sir_Henry's in Cork where I am from. The business is gone but there is enough references that it stil stands as an OK article.--BustOut (talk) 13:41, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The links are :

any advice welcomed on how to source these links or the info would be gratefully recieved Andipeeuk (talk) 14:32, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the forum links aren't considered WP:reliable sources, I can't open the RevCounter, and the Beerhunter link only mentions it in passing. I'm sure the sourcing is out there -- can you search local newspapers for info? Sources don't have to be on the net, they just have to be accessible somehow.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 14:31, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • If you do a google for... lye and "mr daves" or "mister daves" or "mr Dave's" you get many links to lots of people asking whatever happened to.... or is it still going... ok so there would appear to be no commercial links apart from the one to their current business but this is surely the point of a wikipedia page ??? so is me writing neutrally about my experience of mister daves not sufficient ???? if not then forget it... delete it! who cares ?!? Andipeeuk (talk) 14:32, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, no, just like I couldn't write about my experiences at Angelo's Civita Farnese or Dixie's BBQ. Save this article if you can -- it's a great feeling. :-)--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 14:37, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
ok final attempt to placate, then you can delete it and stick what remains wherever you like :
Not a forum referring to Mister daves ...  :::http://www.birminghamplus.com/reviews/reviews_details.asp?rid=2735&iid=2107&uid=7
Ahaaaa, and a newspaper mentioning it too !!  :::http://archive.stourbridgenews.co.uk/2002/8/8/34402.html
http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/restaurants-cafes-national/restaurants-in-west-midlands-in-general/
And another http://archive.halesowennews.co.uk/2003/6/5/24793.html
Are these links official enough for you ?????
Will you let me go free now please ??? Andipeeuk (talk) 14:45, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I told you before, it doesn't have to be a source on the net. There are these buildings I've heard about that are known as "libraries" -- rumor has it that they were useful for research once upon a time...--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 15:12, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
but then how do I prove that I have anything then.... I could just say.. yes I went down my library and found a book that said mister daves was once a curry house... would that be sifficient for you ? sorry not wishing to seem narky .. just dont understand how some information that is not availabloe online can be sufficient evidence to prevent my online article about an old curry house from being deleted. Andipeeuk (talk) 15:16, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
See Great Fire of 1911 -- much of it was sourced from an book I found in the Bangor library.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:28, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
sorry I must be really dumb or something... what is to say what is notable,, I thought that was the point of an encyclopedia, it documents as much as possible as a reference for anyone who may find something useful. This curry house is noteworthy in that it was one of the first to start the household name of "balti" much in the same way as the sex pistols were one of the first to start the music craze "punk" Ah well tired of trying to defend it now... as I said before delete away ! <sigh> Andipeeuk (talk) 15:33, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
WP:EVERYTHING. Also, as far as Balti is concerned, there are no secondary sources to prove that (Also, please use your signature at the end of your post, not the beginning). IRK!Leave me a note or two 15:39, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Look apologies all round... tbh I kinda wish I'd never bothered... my tone is as such due to an overwelming sense of frustration... all I wanted was to add my bit of input into the greatest encyclopedia ever, and include something that IS of importance (albeit in a regional sense) but no more than many other of the smaller wikipedia articles. Given that after a discussion with many people from the area we all remembered Mister Dave's. but nothing appeared to document the fact that this nugget of regional gold ever existed, all I ever wanted was to mark this milestone in the history of the Balti (which it truly is!) with its own entry into Wikipedia.Andipeeuk (talk) 14:12, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Andi, we believe you that it's an important restaurant. It's just that we need the sourcing to back it up, or Wikipedia will become an indiscriminate collection of information.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:52, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Delete -Djsasso (talk) 22:09, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wild Hearts[edit]

Wild Hearts (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Suspected hoax article, made by a Gerald Gonzalez sock, who kept on putting point-of-view information about the actress Angel Locsin. Blake Gripling (talk) 13:16, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. See this this Google result. Kubek15 (Sign!) (Contribs) (UBX) 13:29, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Wizardman 03:59, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Chipmunk tan[edit]

Chipmunk tan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Contested prod about a colour. I can't see how this article can possibly be notable. Found very few sources, and the vast majority of the sources are about products with the colour, and not about the colour itself. Are there notability guidelines for... colours? Samuel Tan 12:59, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

None of them appear to have had this name judging by sources (maybe that Taubmans paint). --Dhartung | Talk 01:01, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Delete per unanimous vote/failure of WP:ATHLETE --JForget Could be reinstated should we officially plays in a pro league. 00:31, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ádám Bogdán[edit]

Ádám Bogdán (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Young footballer who has not played in a fully professional league, therefore failing WP:ATHLETE. He has youth caps, but consensus is that these do not confer notability. Article has already been deleted once (via prod) for the same reason. пﮟოьεԻ 57 12:49, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete -Djsasso (talk) 22:08, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ignacio Fernandez-Montoya de Aramburu y Rojas[edit]

Ignacio Fernandez-Montoya de Aramburu y Rojas (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

article does not give any reason for notability and I could not find any reliable sources. Samuel Tan 12:41, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete -Djsasso (talk) 22:06, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

G.O.T.W.S[edit]

G.O.T.W.S (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Not notable. Google search produced nothing. Possibly fantasy biography. Carbonrodney (talk) 12:31, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete -Djsasso (talk) 21:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanius[edit]

Thanius (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Not notable, (very) quick google search gives homepage, myspace, facebook etc. but no reviews or articles. Carbonrodney (talk) 12:29, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedy delete - possibly a POV fork. — RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 13:00, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Milton Orkopoulos,[edit]

Milton Orkopoulos, (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

It is just Milton Orkopoulos but with a comma at the end. Carbonrodney (talk) 12:28, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete -Djsasso (talk) 21:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Hook It Up"[edit]

AfDs for this article:
"Hook It Up" (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Crystal ball. Unreleased single of no proven notability, from an album whose first single barely scratched the charts. Kww (talk) 11:50, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete --JForget 23:41, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tenacious D 3-D: Monsters Unleashed[edit]

Tenacious D 3-D: Monsters Unleashed (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Suspected hoax article, incorrectly tagged for speedy. No other sources for this found. EyeSerenetalk 11:40, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Delete due to verifiability and notability problems. Davewild (talk) 21:00, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Gut-wrenching Scream And Fall Into Distance[edit]

Gut-wrenching Scream And Fall Into Distance (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Uncited article which is mainly comprised of an uncited list (i.e. WP:OR). No evidence of notability or independent sources. Guy (Help!) 11:33, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: I tried to find a source to keep this but short of buying that CD set for $800 I have nothing... Thus it is unverifiable. --Carbonrodney (talk) 06:54, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
First off, that's just wrong. The name of this sound clip doesn't suggest any other sound is not gut-wrenching. The name is just some words describing this sound. As for not notability - its in heaps of movies! They just haven't been verified... a quick Google search indicates it's in here though: http://www.hollywoodedge.com/Premiere-Edition-1-P35C0.aspx --Carbonrodney (talk) 22:34, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Keep, consensus is that the article does meet the notability guidelines due to the sources found here which should be added to the article. Davewild (talk) 20:50, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cryptic Fate[edit]

Cryptic Fate (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Article fails to show the group has any actual notability - they've done no gigs of note, and the record label they claim their last album was released by is so big it doesn't even have a website, or anywhere else which attests to it being notable at all. Also, I strongly suspect that the creator of the article was bassist Chowdhury Fazle Shakib, judging by the creator's name and their edits to the article. Delete LuciferMorgan (talk) 09:57, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I happen to disagree. While the Daily Star might be notable, none of the likes provided by Esradekan were from notable publications. Also, I don't condone group members making articles for themselves - the user even uploaded pictures of the group and freely claimed ownership of them. Finally, I'd like someone to prove the notability of the record label G-series Soundtek, if it actually exists. LuciferMorgan (talk) 14:27, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You state that you disagree but nothing that you wrote there has anything to do with my reasons for keeping this article. I did not care much for the sources that Esradekan provided either but surely multiple non-trivial coverage in their country's largest circulating English daily newspaper demonstrates notability. Not to mention the award they won. --Bardin (talk) 15:26, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete, due to verifiability and notability problems. Davewild (talk) 20:44, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Aijaz Ahmed Shaikh[edit]

Aijaz Ahmed Shaikh (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

The article is unverifiable and notability is questionable with 52 G-hits and no G-News hits, It appears to be original research and self-promotion. It also seems unlikely that someone who only finished his master's degree four years ago would be considered "one of the greatest strategists and policy makers in international relations theory" as the article proclaims. These reasons are the original Prod reasons put out by Accurizer and Iain99. Jons63 (talk) 09:18, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • On second thoughts I've removed the speedy tag as the author/IP continued to edit after blanking, so may just be confused. My delete vote still stands though. Iain99Balderdash and piffle 09:42, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete, consensus is that the article fails the notability guidelines. Davewild (talk) 20:38, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

RaShawn McAllister[edit]

RaShawn McAllister (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Fails WP:BIO as not a professional athlete, nor amateur who has competed at highest level of competition, nor has enough WP:RS with substantial coverage of the subject. Aboutmovies (talk) 09:23, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete -Djsasso (talk) 21:22, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Zack attack[edit]

Zack attack (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

This is a fictional band. There are no sources besides the show itself (so not independent of the subject) and I can't find anything on Google except lyrics and t-shirts for sale. In other words, this band hasn't been covered or discussed by a reliable outside source. Finally, the whole concept in my opinion is unencyclopedic. Reyk YO! 08:44, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedy deleted by me. The text is clearly an advertisement and describes a future event. The article could be rewritten to be more suitable for inclusion, but one would not start with this text as it is unsalvageably biased. - Richard Cavell (talk) 10:28, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Indiana State Picking and Fiddling Contest[edit]

Indiana State Picking and Fiddling Contest (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable musical competition that has received virtually no secondary coverage. Lincolnite (talk) 08:05, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete, consensus is that the article fails the notability guidelines. Davewild (talk) 20:36, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

San Diego Wine Tasting of 1975[edit]

San Diego Wine Tasting of 1975 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

No notability established. Wine tastings like this happen all the time. They may be of interest to a trade journal, wine correspondent, or a local paper but they hardly merit an entry in an encyclopedia Nunquam Dormio (talk) 07:06, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete, consensus is that this is probably a hoax. Davewild (talk) 20:01, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Detroit Monkey House[edit]

Detroit Monkey House (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Nominated as non-notable and so-far unverifiable - (to extent of possible hoax). Ghits for article name [39] basically just this article. No mention of this facility, its cocktail evenings or mourning bonobos on the zoo's site [40] - though Belle Isle Nature Zoo does exist, I can't find any evidence that this does. Hunting dog (talk) 07:00, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Thanks for the info Rmhermen, have added hoax tag to article and note on the Commons image. Picture here [41] of Anna Scripps Whitcomb Conservatory confirms. -Hunting dog (talk) 21:19, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Hoax, even otherwise, not notable. Kodster (heLLo) (Me did that) 22:09, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Wizardman 04:00, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wild Bird Magazine[edit]

Wild Bird Magazine (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

I'm nominating on behalf of CultureDrone, as he didn't complete the nomination... Carbonrodney (talk) 07:00, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, give me a chance, I only started the AfD process 3 minutes ago and I can't use Twinkle here (damned IE) ! This process is all being done one painful step at a time :-) Ok, where was I.. oh yes....Contested prod, magazine asserts no notability. I'm aware that various discussions have taken place at AfD over the notability of magazines and newspapers, with some being of the opinion that all such publications are de facto notable, and others still requiring notability to be asserted. I'm interested in what the current prevailing consensus is, and whether the quality of the article has any impact. CultureDrone (talk) 07:06, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. PhilKnight (talk) 01:00, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

AgBASE[edit]

AgBASE (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Delete blatant advertising for nn company. Vast majority of sources are just directory listings, and remainder look like advertising press releases from the company. Mayalld (talk) 06:39, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I have no idea if this is the proper way to post in here but I was unable to find another example to show the proper method, but I would like to defend my article. The sources to directories are to example the food and beverage sections within yahoo, ebay and amazon, and the inital reference is to the site the Glen Klock originally created before agbase.com, but with the same model in mind. If these references are inappropriate they can be removed. An online farmer's market is just what it sounds like, and to be fair it's not a new concept, you connect straight to the seller rather then through a middle-man website that takes a cut of the profit. I thought this concept was more commonly known but, as it appears to not be, it can be included in the article. If this page is really just going to be considered promotional, I'd like it to be explained how it is different from pages such as Massachusetts Bay Trading Company, ZipZoomfly, Winecommune.com, Warm sentiments, CheapOair and numerous other pages within Category:Online retail companies of the United States, none of which are marked for deletion or considered to be an advertisement, and yet all have more self-supporting content within the article comparitively. Gladkov Mikhail (talk) 17:10, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Delete, consensus is that the article fails the notability guidelines. Davewild (talk) 19:57, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sabir Abdus Samee[edit]

Sabir Abdus Samee (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Not notable autobiography. Googling Sabir Abdus Samee gives 519 hits, I get more than that. Carbonrodney (talk) 06:30, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The reason I gave this articles because in most cases it is difficult for Bangladeshi authors to come out with appropriate recognition. The is a fault of the Bangladeshi media and print industry. I think if Wikipedia helps to enter these authors they might get the recognation they are entitled to get. As far I know Sabir Abdus Samee is one of the few Bangladeshi poets who write in English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Greenberet08 (talkcontribs) 06:42, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Greenberet, that is a noble cause and as far as I know he could be a great writer who deserves a lot of attention. However, Wikipedia is not the place to do your advertising. We document already famous people, not people who could be famous with Wikipedias help. --Carbonrodney (talk) 07:34, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was already deleted. ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:23, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Super Cube[edit]

Super Cube (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

This page has nothing, not even a history. Just a speedy delete contest tag. If it weren't for that, I would speedy delete it! Seriously, it needs to be deleted. Carbonrodney (talk) 06:18, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy-deleted. No content, no indication of what it is supposed to be about. --Ckatzchatspy 06:21, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Cheers. --Carbonrodney (talk) 07:01, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Keep, consensus is that this is a valid list. Davewild (talk) 19:53, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

List of Mecicobothriidae species[edit]

List of Mecicobothriidae species (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Has existed for roughly 2 years without any of the actual species haveing a BlueLink Article. How useful is a list of redlinks? Exit2DOS2000TC 05:35, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Have you noted that it is in the main Article Mecicobothriidae? Exit2DOS2000TC 03:32, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I'd suggest that the Mecicobothriidae page was reduced to have only the genera and the list had the full list of sub-species. Like for Stiphidiidae to maintain a consistent format for pages in that subject area. Either way I think its better fixed by editing / redirecting, rather than arguing for deletion. -Hunting dog (talk) 06:42, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I dont see it as tearing down a framework, it just seemd a pointless List when the information is already presented (succinctly may I add)in the main Article of Mecicobothriidae and having a List does not add anything of value nor points to a single BlueLink Article. Exit2DOS2000TC 03:32, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Redirect to Died Pretty, consensus is that the article does not meet the notability guidelines but is an appropriate redirect. Davewild (talk) 19:48, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Colin Barwick[edit]

Colin Barwick (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

For a 'prolific' drummer, he has no reliable sources. The two web links only mention Colin Barwick in a secondary manner--as the band Died Pretty's drummer. The second web link briefly says Barwick was a band member from 1983 to 1985--or 2 short years. Hardly notable. Leoboudv (talk) 05:28, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete, consensus is that the article fails the notability guidelines. Davewild (talk) 19:46, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Gyrolabe[edit]

Gyrolabe (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Delete due to WP:N and WP:RS What is notable about this fictional mechanical device? Article is childishly written and has no proper ending...a classic dead end page. It also lacks any reliable sources to prove any inherent notability. Leoboudv (talk) 05:20, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete for the same reasons as in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pokémon types (3rd nomination) (serious WP:V, WP:NOT and WP:N problems not adequately addressed by keep opinions, restoration for very selective merger possible if sourced).  Sandstein  18:09, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

List of Pokémon items[edit]

List of Pokémon items (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Apears to be wholly in-world game guide information that really should only belong on a FAQ page Salavat (talk) 04:47, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That book on amazon is an unofficial encyclopedia, which sounds to me "fan book", just because its got the word encyclopedia on it doesnt mean its within the scope of a real encyclopedia Salavat (talk) 16:26, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The key is that it's an independent, second party source. --Happy editing! Sincerely, Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 16:28, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
IMO you could sum this article up by removing the guide like stuff into something like this:
The Pokémon games, anime, and manga have a variety of items unique to their fictional world. Many toy companies have made replicas of these items, such as life-sized Poké Balls and Pokédexes. Within pokemon items are litterly classed into specific groups such as "assisting items" where they can aid a pokemon in areas such as healing or protection of some kind. "Enhancement items" which can improve the pokemons overall power of abilities. "General purpose tools", items which aid the main character through the world of pokemon. "Key Items", items which play a major role within the games. Items such as the Pokeball (an item used for catching pokemon) and pokedex (item to help identify pokemon) have proved most popular and have been since made into toys..
In other words a mentioning berries and then berry related items seems hardly necessary compared to "In pokemon many items have been created to help aid the pokemon health and battle performance". Salavat (talk) 16:39, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:WHYDONTYOUREADMYCOMMENTTHATISLIKETWOLINESUPTHATOUTLINESACLEARANDCOGENTREASONFORDELETIONSERIOUSLY. Protonk (talk) 19:09, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • You should have instead replaced "comment" there with "delete" above rather than add the delete on a separate line. --Happy editing! Sincerely, Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 19:15, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • you should have just let it slide instead of lecturing me. If you think I'm not working up to your standard at AfD's, then please make a comment on my talk page. I will remind you that I've asked you to not lecture me before. others have asked you not to link WP:AADD to every response that you feel isn't up to snuff. Protonk (talk) 19:23, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ok. I have a suggestion. Unless it is absolutely necessary or realistically two way (as in you have a question or want clarification), please refrain from responding to my posts in AfD. Protonk (talk) 19:35, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You just said the exact same thing on the other pokemon discussion, without veryifying your argument. The fact that this list is related to pokemon doesnt mean the list itself is notable. Salavat (talk) 09:00, 20 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment This article is linked to in (by my count) 106 mainspace articles and 119 project pages. Quoting WP:OSTRICH: "If the context seems unfamiliar or non-notable, consider first whether the article or list is a necessary fork of a larger main article or series of lists. Think about whether deletion of the sub-topic would disrupt the overall cohesiveness of the main topic." Again, I think that, while some believe this article's individual notability is unverified, it supports the other articles in its topic and, therefore, should not be deleted. SunDragon34 (talk) 15:22, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Delete, there is a lack of sources that define this topic and consequently an absence of reliable sources discussing the topic. This article therefore fails WP:V since it consists mainly of original research and synthesis of unrelated sources. Tim Vickers (talk) 04:26, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Broad homeland hypothesis[edit]

Broad homeland hypothesis (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

This is an article about a non-existent theory, supported by synthesis and original research. The article's creator, Rokus01 (talk · contribs), has for quite some time been conducting a campaign on Wikipedia against the Kurgan hypothesis, the most popular model of early Indo-European origins (see here for the opinions of respected science editors like Dbachmann and Mathsci on this). The closest thing we have is a single use of the phrase "broader homeland" in a 1989 book by a professor in the field named Mallory (see here), who wrote "Alternatively, we might wish to opt for a broader homeland between the Rine and Volga during the Paleolithic or Mesolithic which resolves the archeological issues by fiat". A side observation like this does not a theory make, and none of the additional sources in this article appear to use anything like the term; the article is a giant synthetic construction.

Google on "broad homeland hypothesis" turns up 3 pages of Wikipedia mirrors. Google Scholar of the same turns up nothing, and neither does a Google Books. In comparison, Google Scholar of "Kurgan hypothesis", the accepted theory, turns up 7 pages of hits, and Google Books turns up 8 pages of hits. I ran the searches with a number of related phrases, like "broad homeland theory", "broad homeland model", "broader homeland hypothesis", and so on, with the same results.

Merzbow (talk) 04:36, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please try to esteem the article on its merits, without giving prevalence to the hypercritic arguments of fanatism. Rokus01 (talk) 10:34, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. It is precisely the content of books like that of Mallory and Adams that should be reflected here on WP. They are cautious, explain the difficulties of mixing archaeology and linguistics, and give a balanced representation of current thought and methods. That does not seem to be happening in this particular article. Mathsci (talk) 23:58, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Kilian's hypothesis is not in fact discussed in the book of Adams and Mallory, nor is the book used as a source for the article (despite my suggesting it should be on the talk page). Other authors, such as Renfrew and Baldi, indicate that Kilian's proposal is unscholarly. In "The Foundations of Latin" by Philip Baldi (1999), Baldi writes on Page 42, that "Kilian posits a vast linguistic contimuum between the North Sea and the Volga. Kilian's proposal, which is is not supported by either linguistic or archaeological evidence and argumentation, groups together a number of disparate settled agriculuralist and steppe communities. They encompass a geographic area between 2,000 and 3,000 kilometres long, which he lumps together without historical justification". Mathsci (talk) 06:50, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
delete per Talk:Broad_homeland_hypothesis#Validity, otherwise merge into Kurgan hypothesis. This article is actually an ((essay-entry)) on "Criticism of the Kurgan hypothesis" by one of our leading WP:SYN-artists, Rokus01 (talk · contribs). It takes a phrase used by Mallory and unduly turns it into a supposedly stand-alone "hypothesis". dab (𒁳) 11:31, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. I think it is very silly to base deletion of an important theory on being described by various authors rather than referred to by a fixed name. Any descriptive name would do:

P.S. Even sillier to propose a Merge, to contain this article theory within a competing theory: this would be like merging Tomb of the Unknown Soldier into Adolf Hitler.

Also, this is not the right place for making (never properly sustained) personal attacks and advertisements. Rokus01 (talk) 12:53, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, but we do base deletion on "this theory does not exist". I don't see a single reference by anyone voting keep to an academic source that actually defines this theory. This is a point the closing admin must address whatever the outcome. - Merzbow (talk) 17:18, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I rather think admin should address pittbulls that seek article deletion to escalate their private content dispute. The problem is of your own definition, since the theory -as sourced- has been evaluated and described (defined) at least two times by Mallory. This is not the first time you become aggressive when ran out of arguments: the spirit of Wikipedia is cooperation and multiple points of views. Rokus01 (talk) 10:51, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Rokus, describing other editors as pittbulls is uncivil. If you continue, then you could be blocked. PhilKnight (talk) 17:41, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Bearian, if you remove the original research, you will be left with nothing. PhilKnight (talk) 17:38, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete, consensus is that the article fails the notability guidelines. Davewild (talk) 19:28, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Playtime Is Over the Mixtape[edit]

Playtime Is Over the Mixtape (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable release by non-notable artist Somno (talk) 01:54, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. It must be stated, however, that many of the complaints raised about this list are ones that are better handled via diligent editing, not deletion. Shereth 21:17, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

List of controversial video games[edit]

List of controversial video games (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Inherently PoV title, would probably be an indiscriminate list. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters(ChirpsClamsChowder) 03:55, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's a good idea... But what if they were controversial but not banned? Like that one with the boobs. Maybe that's how we can define the ambiguous meaning of controversial: not-banned. Nudity and copyright infringement (like JMN said) can all be included as we define only if there was some controversy involved with its release. Just because its going to be a long list doesn't mean it shouldn't exist... what do people think? --Carbonrodney (talk) 07:53, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm game to discuss it, but my good faith question remains: how would you propose to define "controversial video game"? Not every game with nudity or wide-scale bloodletting has attracted the attention necessary to be deemed "controversial." Townlake (talk) 16:50, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, as Someone another pointed out, this wouldn't count (in their opinion). This demonstrates the point I am trying to make: "controversey", by its very nature, is subjective. Even with sources, it is subjective based on the choice of words of individual reporters, and their point of view. LonelyBeacon (talk) 09:26, 20 July 2008 (UTC) (this was my unsigned comment, I think it got accidentally attributed to another editor).[reply]
What I should have said is that the list as-is refers to public outcry about the content of video games, which is a much more specific. A disclaimer/introductory paragraph to that effect would force additions to the list to actually have references. Yes, that would leave some room for arguments, but that's the nature of the entire encyclopedia. In that context there are a lot of obvious candidates (the race-row over Resident Evil 5 for instance) from here stretching back and also into the future. As a chronological list that would be a useful research tool. One of the four games currently in the list (Death Race) is in a book in front of me - "...the arcade title Death Race holds a special place in the history of video games by being the first title to be widely criticsed for being too violent." Video game controversy is there to cover the subject collectively, not a stock-pot for every example to be thrown in. That's where the list comes in, and I believe it is manageable but needs to be defined as a 'moral outrage' or 'public outcry' list, not "I think that's quite controversial". Someoneanother 13:09, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and that's where the presence of verifiable sources (e.g. for Death Race) showing evidence of a moral panic or moral outcry come into play. It has to be the sources, not original research or speculation, that must show whether or not a controversy existed for a certain game or event. MuZemike (talk) 20:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Pumpkin King, forgive me, but I cannot think that one person requesting to take responsibility is reason to keep any article. Further, I am concerned because you suggested adding to this list from this, which is itself lacking in citations to verify inclusion. LonelyBeacon (talk) 05:26, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think I would realistically be the only one monitoring the page in question as I reckon the article creator and others would be willing to do so as well. The article provides a helpful complement to the video game controversy article and is also good as a navigational tool as well to these articles. That other list, while unsourced provides a means of articles to search for, i.e. tossing some of the names together in a Google searching and seeing if they are discussed together in the context of being controversial games. --Happy editing! Sincerely, Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 05:30, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some sources that aren't blogs (because LGRdC got most of the blogs):
  1. [51]
  2. I feel dirty linking this
  3. this too. It's like the "Now that's what I call music...of printed sources
  4. ahh, much better
  5. less likely to be about the exact topic
  6. good
  • Ok. That should be good for now. Protonk (talk) 05:30, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I hope there is more .... only #5 addressed a video game by name (GTA:SAn Adnreas). Did you read the others? They were mostly abstracts to scholarly papers on the controversial video games. #1 was a scrap of paper that had the word "controversey" highlighted. This is exactly why I can't support keeping this article. All these sources seem to establish is that some video games are controversial. What I am talking about is providing reliable sources that demonstrate each game listed in controversial. We already know that some video games can rankle people's feathers. We've got an article for that. What I am talking about is: to support this list, I think there needs to be evidence supporting these particular games as controversial. I hear a lot of people saying "oh, there's sources", but after looking myself, and waiting, I have seen only the one that you have produced (and GTA:San Andreas isn't even on the list). I stand by that this list lacks WP:RS, and is inherently WP:INDISCRIMINATE. LonelyBeacon (talk) 05:48, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
See these reliable sources for this discriminate list. Others include: [52], [53], [54], etc. --Happy editing! Sincerely, Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 05:51, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
...yes. I read the others. I also skimmed the papers whose abstracts I linked to. They are gated so I hope whoever would use them for inclusion in the article would just download the paper. I'm also guessing for the first link--I don't actually have a copy of that book in hand but I figure the redacted section (a section on this history of video game controversies) might be helpful. The reason it was a scrap of paper was because not all content is indexed and shown on google. Facts on File will show up at most local libraries, so all it takes is a trip to the reference section to suss out that source. #2 lists Death Race explicitly (scroll up). #3 list three games, in about the level of detail you would expect an "encyclopedia" to do so. #4 is a freaking treasure trove. It talks about leisure suit larry, Custer's revenge, tomb Raider, DOA beach volleyball. I won't go on to 5 and 6. You get my point. I've read the sources. The sources support the claims I made above. I don't see what the problem with them is. Protonk (talk) 06:13, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I will publicly respond to Protonk: I did not mean to truly insinuate that you hadn't read these articles, it is more of a figure of speech. No incivility was intended. If it was taken, then I apologize. It appears that sources were added since I last checked. I still find the principle of this list indiscriminate. Now, I am going to take a Tea Break for a while. LonelyBeacon (talk) 06:59, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Wikipedia:Lists was poorly referenced above. A list must specify inclusion criteria. There is no clear inclusion criteria, list of banned video games already exists, there is no reason to keep this article because it serves no clear or useful function. ~ JohnnyMrNinja 06:54, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The inclusion criteria is fairly clear, i.e. games that have explicitly been described as "controversial". Besides, WP:USELESS is not a compelling reason for deletion. But to counter it, it serves as a discriminate and verifiable supplement to our article on Video game controversy and also as a navigational tool. Thus, there is no reason to delete the article. --Happy editing! Sincerely, Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 07:04, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Banned video games are different from controversial video games in that controversial video games are not necessarily banned. MuZemike (talk) 20:58, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm thinking about that. I think splitting games up within series is a good idea. Since I view this list as a probable merge candidate to Video game controversy, I'm trying to keep it spare (presumably once merged, the "reason" section can include a section link to the game controversy in question). Thanks for the input! Protonk (talk) 15:19, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just my opin: that article is pretty scattershot already. I see the list being more valuable as a clean and separate entity, unless you're talking about using the table format to organize the main article (which I think could make a lot of sense). Townlake (talk) 16:08, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's pretty much why I proposed the merger. I want to remove the bulleted list of controversies and introduce a table of sourced controversies with internal links to the most notable and 3-10 word explanations of the least notable. Protonk (talk) 16:18, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Speedy delete as a well written but obvious hoax. Kevin (talk) 04:31, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Standbridge[edit]

Standbridge (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Pennmarth (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

(delete) – (View AfD) That there is a place in Dorset called Stanbridge seems accurate, as for the rest, a city-state? Wars and treaties with German towns? Laying claim to large areas of Dorset? A mercantile stormtrooper force? An extended hoax I think! Benea (talk) 01:15, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm also nominating Pennmarth, which doesn't have any google hits apart from us, so seems to be even more clearly a hoax. Despite its noble history of skirmishes with other Dorset towns, and its fine collection of military epistles! Benea (talk) 01:18, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And Image:Standbridge City Seal.jpg, which should also be deleted, as it is actually a poor photocopied version of a Russian coin with a bit of photoshopping, rather than a city seal. What tipped me off? The Russian doubleheaded eagle was one thing, but the fact the cyrillic actually reads '100 Roubles' and 'Bank of Russia' was the clincher. Benea (talk) 01:42, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Keep. Synergy 00:39, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fire pit[edit]

Fire pit (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

This article should be merged into a more appropriate article, like bonfire or simple fire. Homotlfqa83 (talk) 03:06, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, lets delete this whole this altogether then. I change my nomination to straight up deletel. Homotlfqa83 (talk) 03:16, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was - Page has been speedily deleted and salted. —[DeadEyeArrowTalkContribs] 16:10, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dom Fera[edit]

Dom Fera (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Article claims several thousand google hits for notability -- not at all clear all google hits are of the same person. No reliable sources supplied. Subject is a 16 year old film maker. I believe not notable, fails WP:ENTERTAINER. RayAYang (talk) 03:00, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This film maker deserves credit for what he does and desereves to be better known so I've made a page for him. Besides other people from youtube are on here so why not him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chosenagain (talk • contribs) 03:20, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete then redirect, consensus is that the article fails the notability guidelines but seems to be an appropriate redirect. Davewild (talk) 19:15, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Jean Girard[edit]

Jean Girard (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Bio of a secondary character who has appeared in just one film (Talladega Nights: The Ballad of Ricky Bobby); with no sequel planned in the works, this article is very unlikely to grow significanty IRK!Leave me a note or two 02:56, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete and pay more attention. - auburnpilot talk 03:30, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Carol Isler[edit]

Carol Isler (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Possible hoax. No refs. No ghits. Claim to notability is being the "mother of Chapoemicy". Can find no evidence that Chapeomicy is a real word/vocation. Can find no evidence that J. F. Byrnes University is a real school. -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 02:43, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Delete -Djsasso (talk) 21:26, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Exploring the Paraguay River[edit]

Exploring the Paraguay River (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

We're not a travel guide, but this article sure is. Raymie Humbert (TrackerTV) (receiver, archives) 02:34, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was nomination withdrawn. Elkman (Elkspeak) 21:35, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

AC+79 3888[edit]

AC+79 3888 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

This is a completely unremarkable star whose only claim to fame is that Voyager 1 will pass somewhere near it in a few million years, and that's already mentioned in the Voyager 1 article. Reyk YO! 02:19, 17 July 2008 (UTC) Withdraw Nomination- I am hereby withdrawing the nomination for this article because consensus is clearly to keep it. But I do think that a notability criterion for stars will be necessary sooner or later- statements like "all stars are automatically notable" need to be discussed because a lot of people (myself included) would say that it just ain't so. Reyk YO! 03:20, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment I'm looking for a definitive source, but it's amazing how many times this anecdote, if you will, appears in both serious and recreational literature (such as Sagan's novel Contact (novel)). It is apparently believed to be, barring improvements in technology, the first star encountered this closely by a manmade object.


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The result was Delete, consensus is that the article fails the notability guidelines. Davewild (talk) 19:04, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Shoop Da Whoop[edit]

Shoop Da Whoop (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

In my opinion, this alleged meme is not notable, or if it is, the article fails to demonstrate notability clearly. FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 02:17, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - I will simply vote for delete for failing WP:RS and hope Protonk feels better later on. LonelyBeacon (talk) 06:46, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's already there. Protonk (talk) 12:44, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was that the article has been speedily deleted by User:Ben W Bell. Metropolitan90 (talk) 15:20, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

McDonalds lawsuit 1964[edit]

McDonalds lawsuit 1964 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

I cannot find any evidence that this is a notable lawsuit, or even that it happened. I tried a few different combinations of terms while searching google and could not find any writing about this case; the author has not been able to add detail or sources that would confirm the accuracy of this short article. FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 02:12, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete, due to the lack of reliable sources for notability and verifiability. Davewild (talk) 19:01, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Albophobia[edit]

Albophobia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

This article is incomplete and lacks any coverage from reliable sources. It may be a single person's POV. Moreover, the issue of racism is already covered in the racism article and is better sourced there with numerous references and footnotes. Wikipedia is not a WP:DICT for other less well known forms of racism. Artene50 (talk) 01:47, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 16:04, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rasu Baptist Church[edit]

Rasu Baptist Church (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable local church. Was PRODed, but has already been deleted through PROD before. --lifebaka (talk - contribs) 01:33, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete -Djsasso (talk) 21:25, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Waiting For Ophelia[edit]

Waiting For Ophelia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Contested prod. Movie listed at IMBD as being in production, but no major actors, so we should wait for the actual release before creating an article on this. For the time being, delete. -- Blanchardb-MeMyEarsMyMouth-timed 01:23, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete -Djsasso (talk) 21:23, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

ColorPic[edit]

ColorPic (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Contested prod. Software with no asserted notability. Delete. -- Blanchardb-MeMyEarsMyMouth-timed 01:19, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete, consensus is that the article fails the notability guidelines. Davewild (talk) 18:57, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

California flaming faggot[edit]

California flaming faggot (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

This is a non-notable publication for which the only sources I could find are blogs and similarly unreliable references. The person apparently responsible for the publication is similarly non-notable. Pinkville (talk) 01:17, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In fact, the only link provided doesn't appear to list the publication anyway... Pinkville (talk) 01:21, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Snow delete, yes it's early but these could have been bundled and as the main AfD makes clear, this is the consenus for these stations. No prejudice against re-creation when/if these stations become a reality or begin construction.. TravellingCari 14:34, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Newington railway station, Sydney[edit]

Newington railway station, Sydney (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

States no sources, nothing found online nor on the New South Wales Governement site. Non-existent station. There are no official nor any other sources indicating that such station is even proposed or planned for construction. Pikablu0530 (talk) 01:16, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was Delete, consensus is that the article fails the notability guidelines. Davewild (talk) 18:52, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

James Michael Gomez[edit]

James Michael Gomez (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

The subject of this article is non-notable and I have been unable to find any verifiable sources to support it. Remarkably, the article includes this passage, under the overblown heading, Controversy: His rather outspoken, sometimes unfounded comments on other photographers, directors, and artists, as well as his public airing of his private life could be considered career-breaking, or at least a hindrance this early on in his career [my emphasis]. Even more remarkably, in the sentence that follows its author resorts to the absence of material as evidence of notability: some websites, including buzznet.com were edited to completely remove his concluding interview in its entirety. The "external link" provided is a personal blog, and of the four "references" provided, three do not mention his name and the other one is (again) buzznet, hardly meritorious. Let's drop this absurdity. Pinkville (talk) 01:01, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. John254 03:26, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Swami Vishnu Tirtha[edit]

Swami Vishnu Tirtha (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

-Bio of a religious leader that is not notable. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 00:23, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete, consensus is that the article fails the notability guidelines. Davewild (talk) 18:44, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lisa M. Wolfe[edit]

Lisa M. Wolfe (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non notable yoga instructor. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 00:12, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. No consensus to delete. It seems the subject is notable as per the sources found in google books. (non-administrative closure) -- RyRy (talk) 03:22, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tirtha and Kshetra[edit]

Tirtha and Kshetra (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Possible original research. Together these two terms do not equal notability. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 00:08, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete, consensus is that the article fails the notability guidelines. Davewild (talk) 18:42, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

MAP magazine artist professionals[edit]

MAP magazine artist professionals (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View AfD)

Non-notable publication. According to its website, the first issue will appear in September, and it will be distributed for free in the railway station of one city, Winterthur, by the city's tourism agency. Apparently not much more than a promotional vehicle for artists local to Winterthur. No media coverage that I can find. The two articles from a local paper that are cited do not discuss or even mention the magazine.  Sandstein  07:37, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, RMHED (talk) 00:13, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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