The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was early close and delete because of copyright violation [1]. A remake may be possible. Adam Cuerden ^talk 23:53, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

George Vithoulkas (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Pure advertisement, and appears to be written by the subject, at least at the start. no new material seems to have been added since (Though copyright violation was fixed). Adam Cuerden ^talk 14:25, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete as NN, shaky on WP:V. It's amusing that his article claims 80,000 Google hits, which it does ... off of the Greek Google, using his surname alone. Well, heck, if you just Google my surname, it returns over 1.6 million hits. Googling his full name returns eleven hits on US Google. Nice try. RGTraynor 15:05, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, after Greek naming customs we cannot establish the identity of the subject without the middle name. It is customary to name the fist son after the father's father, the second after the mother's father ... If somebody named George Papadopoulos has six boys, and each has a boy in turn you wind up with six George Papadopoulos in the second generation, which explains the amount of Google hits Alf^Photoman 15:42, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep if sourced and referenced i.a.w. WP:BIO by end of this AfD Alf^Photoman 00:01, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete possibly also shaky on WP:COI. Some of the references aren't strong. Eg. PubMed lists everything regardless of quality or where it has been published. This is often made as some claim for notability but it isn't. Maustrauser 22:11, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Absolute keep This is nuts. Vithoulkas is without question the most famous living homeopath and he has been notable for at least 30 years. His books are considered required reading in the field of homeopathy. He has published many books, written countless journal articles and he lectures around the world. To suggest that we delete him from WP is ridiculous. Can we at least bother to do a simple Google search before we propose an article for deletion (note that there are 44,000 hits for his full name not 11 as RGTraynor incorrectly claims above. Also note that Vithoulkas is often cited by his last name, so the actual number of hits would be much higher.) [2] Did you guys even bother to read the article? The fact that he was honored by various governments for his lifetime of work and that his name appears 500 times on the BBC website might be tiny clues that the guy is notable. --Lee Hunter 19:05, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could we have some actual evidence of that? And you're using just his surname while RGTraynor was using his full three names. Adam Cuerden ^talk 20:16, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Suggesting we use three (or more) names (when he's only known by first and last) in a search is either just strange or patently stupid. Why don't you make the minimal effort to actually browse through the Google results for "George Vithoulkas". With the slightest effort it is painfully and blindingly obvious that he is extremely well-known around the world and very well-regarded. By the way, here's his Right Livelihood Award page from the Swedish parliament [3] I also would like to note that you have made a concerted effort to delete a number of articles about well-known homeopaths. Since this is a field with which you are obviously entirely unfamiliar, perhaps you should do a little more research before you launch yourself into a destructive project like this. ---Lee Hunter 21:45, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep if properly cited and sourced. The subject does appear to more than meet the criteria set out at WP:BIO. Nuttah68 20:26, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep: he is really a famous person in homeopathy; the Right Livelihood Award is a proof that this is also recognised outside the homeopathy world; he wrote many books; many of them were translated in different language (e.g. German); please no fight against medical schools by deleting articles about their most famous representatives; deleting because of Greek naming conventions seems to be a pretence since his middle name is not known internationally (cf. the writing of his name on his books). Dr. Krischer 18:18, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have to tell you that George Vithoulkas is one of the greatest practitioners of homeopathic medicine in the world. I know little about the technicalities of Wikipedia, but I do know about homeopathy. His textbook, the Science of Homeopathy is a great book and has remained in print in USA, UK and or India since its original publication in Athens in 1978. I am proud to have a signed copy, which he gave to my uncle Dr K Gardikas, then a professor of medicine and dean of the medical school of Athens University. His work in helping people with severe chronic disease is amazing; Francis Treuherz, Edtor of the Homeopath, journal of the Society of Homeopaths, UK. - Unsigned

We need reliable sources. Noone is offering them. Adam Cuerden ^talk 18:37, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I know we're supposed to assume good intentions, but you've strayed far beyond being merely disingenuous and are now wandering in the land of the trolls. The article (at the time you nominated it for deletion) had a huge list of sources including: Pubmed, Who's Who, Google Scholar, British Library, Papyros-Larousse-Britannica, International Directory of distinguished leadership, National Libary of Medicine Catalog, SCIRUS, the Swedish Parliament, the Hungarian government, [4] the Indian Health Ministry and others. That list was poorly presented but there is no way you can look at that list and tell me that the article "lacked sources" for establishing his notability. If you search for the name "Vithoulkas" in Google you get 95,000 hits. You might argue that some of those hits are for other guys called Vithoulkas but I challenge you to browse through those hits. I can assure you that you will find that roughly 98% of them are for George Vithoulkas the homeopath. --Lee Hunter 21:25, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment, lets cool this for a moment because the last thing we need is a battle. Articles to be included in Wikipedia need to fulfill certain policies and guidelines, where the adhering to the policies is mandatory and the adherence to guidelines a question of debate. The first policy is WP:N, whereby it has to be proven by second party sources that a subject is notable. The second would be WP:A which says that the content of an article has to be attributable to a second party source. Our problem is that, as is, this article fails at least WP:N because we can hardly say that the Society of Homeopaths would be a second party source as Dr. (Mr.) Vithoulkas would be a member of it. We cannot say that a book written by the person is a second party source. What does certainly not work is first party sources, as any of these would fall under WP:OR. I am always happy to be wrong about the notability of a person but I cannot take the word from someone for it, I need sources. Alf^Photoman 19:00, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think the Right Livelyhood Award is a reliable source. Also his book "Science of Homeopathy" is a reliable source. A list of his English books at Amazon.com can be found here ( http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/104-8489252-5159152?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=vithoulkas&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go ). I think this is also a reliable source. Dr. Krischer 19:04, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

wonderful, if they are in the article and reliable then, as I said above, Keep Alf^Photoman 19:08, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment the external website of the Right Livelihood Award as a source has been in the article since before nomination for deletion if anyone wants to read it. Nuttah68 19:40, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

But is it reliable, or particularly notable? It's a small orginisation set up to give out prizes for... well... alternative medicine, the environment, art, etc. [5]. It is *NOT* the Sweedish Parliament as has been claimed around here. Adam Cuerden ^talk 23:31, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Absolute keep: A man who has helped immensly in reviving classical homeopathy for the last 40 years... A man who has tought hundreds of medical doctors from all over the world and has guided them to see humanity's suffering from a totally holistic approach... A man who has written inspiring books and has a collection of international awards topped by the 1996 Alternative Nobel Prize - the Right Livelihood Award, should definately has his place in Wikipedia. As a Medical Doctor, I have little knowledge of the technicalities of this site (as other people have already mentioned above), but I do know about medicine and homeopathy and George Vithoulkas, has his place in Wikipedia (as for internet searches, on Saturday 10th of March 2007, 22:00 GMT, Google returned 48,600 addresses for 'George Vithoulkas', Yahoo returned 57,600 and Live Search 10.393....) Dr Andrew Tsourouktsoglou 22:07, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.