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The result was speedy close; procedural: previous nomination was closed hours ago. `'mikka 00:09, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Essjay controversy[edit]

Essjay controversy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

The rationale for ths afd nom is intentionaly kept short.

I believe this article fails to meet Wikipedia:Notability and Wikipedia:Avoid self-references in the context of "Human Knowledge". Such an article should either be trasnwikied to meta.wiki or deleted completely. -- Cat chi? 23:59, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps it might be better to transwiki this to either meta or wikinews. -- Cat chi? 00:05, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please note that this article has a prior AfD that was closed less than 24 hours ago. —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 00:01, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep, we don't delete articles for violating WP:NPOV, WP:OR, unless that cannot be fixed (Please remember that WP:ATT is superceded by WP:NPOV). As far as I can see, there are valid multiple, reliable, secondary sources available on the subject and are provided on the article. I don't see how this fails WP:NEO either. (Sum of all the views on this AfD presented by the participants) The delete arguments are unconvincing. — Nearly Headless Nick {C} 15:26, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Anti-Pakistani sentiment[edit]

Anti-Pakistani sentiment (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

I submit this article for examination and possible deletion owing to strong violations of WP:NPOV, WP:OR, WP:ATT, WP:NEO. Even though several sources have been provided, none of them attribute to the assertions made in the article, which are grossly biased and original research. Rama's arrow 21:34, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Plenty of links, yeah. But do they qualify per WP:RS and WP:V? No. — Nearly Headless Nick {C} 15:32, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Arnon Katz[edit]

Arnon Katz (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Notability? This article was most likely created by sock of banned user Israelbeach, aka Joel Leyden, though checkuser proved inconclusive. Article links to Joel Leyden's personal website, the "Israel News Agency", as a source. Note that though linked to Hebrew wiki, there is in fact no article on the Hebrew wikipedia about Arnon Katz. A Google search for ארנון כץ in Hebrew seems to confirm that the gist of the article is more or less true; in fact, I would support an article about this person on the Hebrew wikipedia, if properly verified. But I'm not sure it belongs on the English wikipedia. I am uncomfortable with the fact that this reads like PR copy, and is not linked to from any other Wikipedia article. woggly 17:00, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

edit to add: Someone seems to take it seriousely...
On point 3: User contributions for Israelgeeks wrote: 11:48, 8 March 2007 (hist)(diff) Empire Online (added Arnon Katz as co-founder) (top) --Strangerer (Talk | Contribs) 21:49, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest that everyone avoid Ad hominem arguements.--Nitsansh 00:16, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep, see also WP:PROF. — Nearly Headless Nick {C} 15:37, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Shah Shahidullah Faridi[edit]

Shah Shahidullah Faridi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Fails WP:BIO. There are no secondary reliable sources to verify that this person is notable Sefringle 00:15, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
*Comment- "Died in relative obscurity." So, basically, to sum it up, he was unknown and unimportant? - (Ninsaneja 00:35, 7 March 2007 (UTC))[reply]

Do you see any secondary sources confirming notability? I don't see any sources, let alone reliable sources that prove notability.--Sefringle 00:43, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please take a look at WP:WEB.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.227.83.254 (talk • contribs)

My mistake. I meant WP:BIO. But with those links, it still fails WP:BIO guidelines, as geocities is not proof of notability.--Sefringle 01:03, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't say it was, but it does indicate that he has some importance, which would stop me from nominating an article like this in the first place and instead look for sources. This scholarly article says:
In contemporary Pakistan, the leaders of the Chishti-Sabiri sub-branch continue to guide their followers along the arduous Sufi path (tariqa), armed with a spiritual genealogy that links them directly to the authority of the Prophet Muhammad. My work focuses in particular on the legacy of three important Chishti-Sabiri spiritual masters (shaykhs) whose lives paralleled the birth and development of Pakistan itself: Muhammad Dhawqi Shah (d. 1951), and his two principal successors, Shahidullah Faridi (d. 1978) and Wahid Bakhsh Rabbani (d. 1995).
Based on that alone, I think this is a significant figure. The lack of English language sources hampers us but does not affect notability. Though we are limited to a stub, it is likely that this could be expanded by someone with access to sources in Urdu or whatnot. -- Dhartung | Talk 04:41, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Apart from the bit that says articles by Shahidullah Faridi, "Baiat" and "The Spiritual Psychology of Islam"? Here's another from Ohio State University and another one from UNC. Seems to be a lot of scholarly references. Incidentally, why is a book review in Muslimedia not reliable? EliminatorJR Talk 01:20, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It is for this reason I did not offer an opinion on the keep or delete. I don't know whether he is important or not just from that - but from reading the article I get the idea he wasn't. Not strongly enough to say even weak delete though. - (Ninsaneja 18:33, 8 March 2007 (UTC))[reply]
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The result was no consensus. I believe there is a difference in opinion on the interpretation of policies here.

  1. WP:ASR is a logically fallacious argument in this case. We are not making self-references here in anyway. See the examples provided on the guideline page, and you will understand what I mean.
  2. Secondly, there isn't a little coverage on the topic, there is a lot of it, over the internet. Some of the sources have already been provided on the article. There are multiple, reliable and secondary sources available on the subject, we aren't merely quoting ourselves or providing primary references from Wikipedia or a mirror.
  3. Thirdly, article has the potential to develop and grow into more than a stub, redirection and merging would definitely restrict that.
  4. The article on Essjay controversy was later kept because of some of the reasons stated above. — Nearly Headless Nick {C} 15:47, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia community[edit]

Wikipedia community (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This page provides little or no context. It attempts to cover a subject already covered throughout Wikipedia, but instead results in an article that can be summed up by the title, like "The community of editors in Wikipedia." Wikipedia doesn't need an article about its own community, plus, it might be a conflict of interest, as it is edited by the community. Vox Rationis (Talk | contribs)

WARNING Most likely that the article will be significantly expanded during the vote and many arguments will become invalid. (I will certainly put my efforts towards this). 23:57, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Comment Your nomination is a conflict of interest. An article about the community is highly notable, interesting, and expandable. --QuackGuru 00:23, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
How in the world is this a conflict of interest? Veesicle (Talk) (Contribs) 00:43, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Heh, does that mean the Wikipedia community isn't allowed to decide what to do with this? Who else, then? --Conti|✉ 00:50, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Vox Rationis already stated above that: it might be a conflict of interest. Editing about yourself, the Wikipedia community, may be COI according to Vox, as it is edited by the community. Millions of editors is highly notable. --QuackGuru 00:54, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Bizare Reasoning. In that case it should never have been created in the first place and should be speedily deleted - Munta 10:42, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
These links cannot neccessarily be used as proper grounds, as the links were placed there by the author of this article, shortly after the article was written.--Vox Rationis (Talk | contribs) 01:28, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I feel necessary to comment on the fact that you were able to produce the ISBN number and page number on the spot. Well done!--Vox Rationis (Talk | contribs) 01:51, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep Article now contains notability in its own right. I'm still a little unhappy about the article stating the obvious but the new information fits best here - Munta 09:18, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Er...if we delete Wikipedia_community then what happens to us? Do we disappear into nothingness? And if we're not here,we can't delete Wikipedia_community so it remains,which means we're here to delete it... This could be very tiring :) Lemon martini 11:51, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Wierd topic, not really sure how it could be expanded or made into a coherant subject without extensive, pointless self-referencing. Regardless of the outcome, this AfD might need to be linked in BJAODN. Cheers, Lankybugger 16:51, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I find your remark a bit offensive, as I have been here at Wikipedia for a while, and I do know the difference between Wikipedia community and Wikipedia: Community. I did not nominate it for the subjects validity, but for the ability of the subject to be covered. This would also, as I said, entail the subject to write about itself, sparking a conflict of interest...I have changed my vote to a "delete or merge" {above}, as this information should have a little coverage, but the it does not need an article...--Vox Rationis (Talk | contribs) 03:07, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Section Break: Warning[edit]

The Wikipedia Community article has significantly expanded since the original nomination. Most votes has nothing to do with the current article. --QuackGuru 03:29, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Encyclopedia Britannica has articles about their editors[8].
  2. An article being a stub is not a reason to delete
  3. I actually disagree with a number of the points the article makes, and take particular offense to us declaring ourselves Time's man of the year. The point of that nomination was much more about MySpace and YouTube.
  4. Much of the article is POV. Just because you can source one point of view does not make it not a point of view.
  5. Just because an article is poorly written is also not a reason to delete.

If pressed, I'd probably lean delete, but for now, I just had some food for thought.--CastAStone|(talk) 14:03, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Out of curiosity, does any other Web site have a Wikipedia article on its community, separate from the article on the site itself? I don't know of any, and there are many Web sites that have communities surrounding them. *Dan T.* 00:51, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just because others don't get the RS/stuff that counts to pass WP:ATT doesn't mean anything. How many websites in the Top 20 on the Internet even have communities beside us? Millions of people, active stories all over the media... this is/was inevitable and will only continue. one month, a quarter, a year, two years from now, when the press and notability about the people that build the encyclopedia continues to build, will we not talk about us because it's navel gazing cruft as the person below says? or will we be NPOV and dispassionate about ourselves as we are supposed to be about everything? - Denny 03:10, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. — Nearly Headless Nick {C} 15:54, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Abu Usamah[edit]

Abu Usamah (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Fails WP:BIO. Only sourced mentioned is youtube Sefringle 00:24, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment The 6th hit on Google for his name is this story from the UK Daily Mail (major newspaper) titled "Radical Cleric praises Bin Laden". EliminatorJR Talk 01:29, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I had my filters for certain domains to try and generate more localized links. I still don't see how this is wholly notable, though. Seicer (talk) (contribs) 05:04, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete and redirect to Esto perpetua. — Nearly Headless Nick {C} 16:13, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Esto Perpetua Award[edit]

Esto Perpetua Award (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Delete - there do not appear to be multiple independent non-trivial references to establish notability. Otto4711 23:50, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached
 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Wizardman 00:27, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Counting raw numbers of Google hits is not a proper method of determining notability. The majority of those hits are either from sources affiliated with the state of Idaho (and thus are not sources independent of the subject) or are trivial mentions in articles on other topics. The award itself is not the subject of multiple independent reliable sources. Otto4711 13:53, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete. ⇒ SWATJester On Belay! 06:58, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sanskrit Shares Tamil Substrate[edit]

Sanskrit Shares Tamil Substrate (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This page is almost 100% original research without attribution, only of use to those who are familiar with the linguistic study of these two languages. Prod removed by author. JuJube 00:50, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The article is paradigm study on linguistics which has vibrant research ongoing i have set an external link to the site as well.I would request u to contact me for any queries @ vraghavan26@yahoo.com. I would like this to be screen page for those interested to go further deep into the area of research in such or similar linguistic study. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vraghavan26 (talk • contribs)

Please do visit this page in Wiki which is related:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substratum_in_Vedic_Sanskrit


Please mail me if u have specific query just before u intend to delete now i am yet building the page. vraghavan26@yahoo.com Substratum, in linguistics, a language that influences but is supplanted by a second language. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substratum There is no substratum language influence of sanskrit towards any dravidian languages except word borrowings whereas Tamil has influenced heavily on the root and stem of Sanskrit .Infact this makes me and many other linguist feel that Sanskrit is the varient of Tamil/Dravidian or proto-X languages.I have gone further to prove Sk did not evolve from any dialect but set as a high definition language of communication established in mantra and tantra text for divine communication and propitiation elsewhere in my discussions. It is really disgusting to watch some comments above that this is non-sensical without a serious debate with me .It shows the poor knowledge of the moderators.Since the topic is on linguistics some linguist should deal this issue in the spirit of equity.

Would you like a link to this AfD to be posted on, say, the talk page of WikiProject Linguistics or Linguistics, to encourage Wikipedia's linguists to weigh in? Speaking as someone who's relatively knowledgeable about linguistics, I can assure you that the discussion will not go any more in your favor. But as you wish --Miskwito 01:27, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please do give it a chance.I am not hurting anyone here but i am being hurt and repeatedly by words.If u link please tell me where should i click on to see the views and debate on further if required to hold the article. I would accept higher level discussion in the area and Topic please show me the link where this topic will be posted---Let the topic get its due share in justice. Infact what i am discussing in the article is just not simple etymology or word matching i have tried re-discover entire syllable system that is truely an indian experience which could have parted its way into middle-east and europe and probably an out-of-india theory.The structure of word formation in sanskrit from its base language the purpose of the same is taken up.Remember Lord Krishna in Bhagvat Geetha declares he is Sawman among vedas .I believe there is specific reason for this when compared to the statement made by the author in TOL about syllable elongation and higher order clusters and categorising it as Isai(Sawma)Tamil. The examples are only Indicative and a whole lot of words can just be picked and using the methodology retrieved as Tamil and this exercise is on .This article will serve as a eye-opener to those in the field of Tamil-SK research.

"i have tried [to] rediscover..." - so you're performing original research? Unfortunately, original research is not permitted on Wikipedia; you have to back up what you write in articles using reliable, independent, published sources. --Miskwito 03:00, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rediscover is nothing but discovering what is already accepted/partially accepted/critiqued.It is a building process Bold textthrough paradigm induction .There no question of invention here it is only a study process and scientific evolution.Science itself evolves and has no perfection.As Einstein puts in time and space theory.Orginal is nothing but conjeture evolving into perception with a group supporting it and stands alone as accepted in the world for a time period or coexist with diametrically opposite view and even exception.Quoting some accepted principles presupposes some group with like minded supporting an argument.Such support is had from the linguist i referred in the group external link i have given at the bottom of the page.Also wiki has an article on sanskrit substrate the link i had given at the top of the page where there are various authors with diametrically opposite views.Encyclo can be more meaningful if it accomodates ringside views as well rather than majoritarian views.What is an accepted may not be orginal at a point in time or across spaces.

This is a serious discussion. Please refrain from doubletalk and newspeak. JuJube 03:48, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sir,I couldnt get u here is it addressed to me?please state the context.Thanx
Regards
RV


I did forgot to mention in the princeton professors article, pls click the link "joshua katz" , there you will find that his latest interest is in "Sanskrit " eytimology.
Here is the brief:
Professor Katz is a linguist by training, a Classicist by profession, and a comparative philologist at heart. He is particularly interested in etymology, which he views as part of the history of ideas. In addition to his wide-ranging Harvard dissertation, Topics in Indo-European Personal Pronouns, he is the author of numerous articles on literary, linguistic, and cultural subjects, ranging from Hesiod to Catullus, from Tocharian phonology to Hittite morphology, and from Greek badgers to Roman testicles. He counts among his honors the President's Distinguished Teaching Award (2003).
Recent work includes '"Sanskrit sphij-/sphigí:- and Greek phíkis"' (in A. Hyllested et al., eds., Per aspera ad asteriscos: Studia Indogermanica in honorem Jens Elmegård Rasmussen sexagenarii Idibus Martiis anno MMIV [Innsbruck 2004], pp. 277-84); "The 'Swimming Duck' in Greek and Hittite" (in J. H. W. Penney, ed., Indo-European Perspectives: Studies in Honour of Anna Morpurgo Davies [Oxford 2004], pp. 195-216); "The Indo-European Context" (in J. M. Foley, ed., A Companion to Ancient Epic [Malden, MA 2005], pp. 20-30); "To Turn a Blind Eel" (in K. Jones-Bley et al., eds., Proceedings of the Sixteenth Annual UCLA Indo-European Conference, Los Angeles, November 5-6, 2004 [Washington, D.C. 2005], pp. 259-96); "Reconstruction, Cultural" (in K. Brown, ed., Encyclopedia of Language & Linguistics, 2nd ed. [Amsterdam 2006], vol. 10, pp. 389-93); "The Riddle of the sp(h)ij-: The Greek Sphinx and her Indic and Indo-European Background" (in G.-J. Pinault & D. Petit, eds., La Langue poétique indo-européenne: actes du Colloque de travail de la Société des Études Indo-Européennes (Indogermanische Gesellschaft/Society for Indo-European Studies), Paris, 22-24 octobre 2003 [Louvain 2006], pp. 157-94); "Erotic Hardening and Softening in Vergil's Eighth Eclogue" (with Katharina Volk, Classical Quarterly 56 [2006], 169-74); "The '"Urbi et Orbi"-Rule' Revisited" (Journal of Indo-European Studies 34 [2006], 319-61); "What Linguists are Good for" (Classical World 100 [2007], 99-112); "The Origin of the Greek Pluperfect" (Die Sprache, in press); "On the Regularity of Nasal Dissimilation in Anatolian" (in press in a Festschrift); and "The Development of *sm in Hittite" (in press in a Festschrift).
I am some one else.
No one is disputing that there are scholars researching etymology and Sanskrit (although I didn't realize Katz was one of them, so thanks for pointing me to the link). But that doesn't really mean anything, because this article we're discussin is on, as far as I can tell, Sanskrit and Tamil being related in some way (though it's hard to tell what the article is saying). This is not an accepted view among specialists and linguists; if you wanted to include it in Wikipedia, you'd have to back it up with sources--sourced that directly relate to the specific topic of Sanskrit's relation to Tamil. You'd also need to cite sources for the examples given in the article to illustrate or defend that point. Right now the article reads like pure original research--like the article is the forum where someone is writing a paper to defend a view they've come to on their own. There's nothing wrong with conducting original research, of course, but Wikipedia is not the place for it, and unless you can show that the article is not original research, it doesn't belong here. --Miskwito 20:26, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There are so many books and authors who support the view that Sanskrit is related to Tamil and some that suggest that it emanates from Tamil or its Proto-X language.If Wiki is suggesting that the thesis needs to be accepted by wiki recognised panelist then well it is another matter.Even the fact that Sanskrit is Indo-european is questioned by some authors leave alone its linking with Tamil.I have also given a link here which is suggestive of contradictory views in the area.The debate at the national and international arena is on.My work here is only carrying the opinion held in a logical manner and furthering such original works and opinions.I still strongly feel wiki should retain the article if needed with appropriate Tag suggesting that it is view of the author or the like

Then cite some. From reliable, published sources, cite evidence to (1) back up the specific claims of the theory being made in the article and (2) demonstrate that this is a view held by more than a handful of fringe theorists. For every one example of a scholar who believes Sanskrit is not Indo-European, but instead Dravidian and related to Tamil--and has written this in a reliable, published work--I'll give you fifty who would say that view is lunatic, and who could back their claims up with centuries of accumulated historical linguistic evidence. I doubt many of them would even be aware that this theory you're pushing even existed. So provide actual citations from reliable published sources to back up the claims made in the article, and, furthermore, to demonstrate the notability of the theory. The fact that some people believe it isn't enough to establish its notability, there needs to be evidence that a large number of people are aware that the theory even exists. I'm not sure why I'm still arguing, though. This clearly qualifies for speedy deletion... --Miskwito 05:12, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No,. What I indicated through the Princeton University Press releases/articles here is that this article needs higher level (linguistics) discussion/attention of people link Johusha katz . Readers , needs innovative apporach, especially in contrast and commparable views. How do you all say it is Original ? I am learning.
If one doesnt understand a particular subject/object there are 2 ways he/she expresses it 1.Pray(worship) 2.Trash. But a person who do not understand it but tries to get into it starts with a positive note.I hope good sense will prevail.

Below is an extract though out of context here it would be better readers know prima-facie on what we are discussing .The Only Living Classical language of the world.

This is How Professor George Hart(Professor of Tamil at the University of California, Berkeley, since 1975 currently holder of the Tamil Chair at that institution. ) had to lament " It seems strange to me that I should have to write an essay such as this claiming that Tamil is a classical literature -- it is akin to claiming that India is a great country or Hinduism is one of the world's great religions. The status of Tamil as one of the great classical languages of the world is something that is patently obvious to anyone who knows the subject. To deny that Tamil is a classical language is to deny a vital and central part of the greatness and richness of Indian culture. " On a request from a Tamil Counter part to write an impression on Tamil.Albiet Now Tamil is Declared as a Classical language by the Indian Government.

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The result was delete all. — Nearly Headless Nick {C} 16:31, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Storbergsmasten[edit]

Storbergsmasten (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
Jupukkamasten (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Fårhultsmasten (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Gungvalamasten (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

All of these articles are virtually identicle, and none of them seems to have any real notability. Wikipedia is not an FCC database of broadcast towers (one exists on FCC.gov) It's hard to imagine that these articles will ever get past stub stage, and there is a broad consensus to delete such articles on masts. Note that these are already listed on List of masts, so no further merging must be done. Descendall 01:10, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Seraphimblade Talk to me 08:11, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Doomsday event[edit]

Doomsday event (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

The article is indiscriminate per WP:NOT, and largely Original Research. The study of future events is known as future studies, and the study of existential risks ("doomsday events", TEOTWAWKI, "end of the world", etc..) is covered on Wikipedia in risks to civilization, humans and planet Earth and human extinction. Note the articles first footnote, which uses dictionary definitions to craft an original research meaning of the term "doomsday event". Note the list of scenarios, which lists anyone who happens to have used the term "Doomsday" (indiscriminate). Note the lack of scholarly sources or standard sources usually used in this field of study. A list of existential risks is already handled with better sourcing and discussion at risks to civilization, humans and planet Earth. "Doomsday event" is one of many informal popular culture phrases without clear definition or meaning that should re-direct to risks to civilization, humans and planet Earth. Stbalbach 01:16, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • It's already had two or three titles, all of which have proven problematic to various users. If you have any other suggestions see the lengthy talk page discussions. -- Stbalbach 19:11, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Eschatology deals with religion. See End of the world for how "end of the world" stuff is organized on Wikipedia. -- Stbalbach 19:13, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It is indiscriminate because anyone who happens to use the term "Doomsday" is the criteria for inclusion in the article. It's just a random list of people who say Doomsday. Meanwhile people who don't call it Doomsday are not included because they never use the term. Thus the article has no focus or meaning. Conceptually, the concept is already covered elsewhere on Wikipedia. -- Stbalbach 19:25, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Your usage of indiscriminate is not the same as meant by WP:NOT#INFO, which actually describes specific kinds of articles that are not allowed, as opposed to what you're talking about, which is more about the quality of the article. I don't agree that it's even true about the page, but it's not necessarily true, so it's an issue for clean-up. This is a content dispute, and while somewhat complicated, it's not a deletion issue. Merge would work just as well, though I think with the variety of possibilities, something of an organized effort would be appropriate to handle the subject. FrozenPurpleCube 20:09, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • That would be your proposal, but there are other possibilities, so who knows what Blaxthos wants? FrozenPurpleCube 20:02, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Good sources?? First of all, World War III has no sources whatsoever. Second of all, Doomsday Event is the definition of original research. While the lead does have good sources that properly define the term, the rest of the article is made up oof examples that certain editors think constitutes a "doomsday event." None of the subsequent sources use the term. This is synthesis of primary sources into a new interpretation.-Dmz5*Edits**Talk* 15:41, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've been dealing with this issue for years. End of the world shows how it is organized. There is religion, science, myth, fiction, cosmology and philosophy. It only gets complicated when editors keep spawning new articles that duplicate what is already been done, calling it various new names. Doomsday event is, conceptually, a duplication of risks to civilization, humans and planet Earth, thus the purpose of this AfD. -- Stbalbach 19:25, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, risk for civilization, humans and planet Earth was created March 11, 2005 while Doomsday event already existed on October 29, 2004. So risk for civilization, humans and planet Earth is the duplicate, not the other way around. - Mgm|(talk) 12:18, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
True, what I meant was "Doomsday event" and "risk for civ" didn't start to overlap in scope until recently, after "risk for civ" had been around a while. -- Stbalbach 17:59, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, as I said, perhaps you should have proposed a merger instead. Not sure if I agree, as I don't know that this article has to be a duplicate, and honestly, I like this title better than that one. But it's not really a deletion concern. However, I do think it might be worth setting up a Wikiproject or discussion on it over all. I put up Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)#End of the World as a start, though I don't know that it's the best place, and it'll probably end up elsewhere. Might even need a short-lived Wikiproject. FrozenPurpleCube 20:00, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks. The problem is there is no commonly accepted name for these events, so we "make one up" on Wikipedia. But every time someone makes up a name: Doomsday event, TEOTWAWKI, End of civilization, End of humanity, End of the world -- someone else comes along and says it is original research and/or the articles doesn't encompass what the title says and/or the title is poor and a new one is needed etc.. it's been an endless cycle of discussions for years, in AfD's, Rename requests and Merge requests. At this point I think existential risk might be the best place. -- Stbalbach 17:59, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I'd say the problem is not that there is no commonly accepted names, but that there are several commonly accepted terms (Besides Doomsday, Apocalypse, Armageddon, Cataclysm, Holocaust, even World War III and Ragnarok might well be considered generic terms in some lights), each of which may have a slightly different meaning, and the articles themselves do have some differences in them, but the problem is not in the existence of the articles themselves, but the lack of a cohesive group consensus on how to cover this subject. As I think more about it, I would suggest trying to establish some kind of Wikiproject so you can bring people together on this subject. I would also recommend not going the AfD route, that's rarely conducive to getting people to work together, as it comes across as a slap in the face. And no, I don't recommend existential risk for the article title, as it is an obscure term, and not in common usage. I would prefer something closer to the vernacular. Feel free to title the Wikiproject with that name though, should you wish to go that route. FrozenPurpleCube 19:49, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You are probably right, the problem is large and complex enough to warrant a Project. It surpasses talk page discussions and AfDs. It involves probably a dozen articles or more and will require some serious work to figure out all the pieces, the best way to assemble them, and establishing consensus. I'm not even sure I want to take it on, it's like herding cats. This AfD shows how wide and disparate the views are, and how strongly people feel about it. -- Stbalbach 04:14, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is no "usual" term, that is the problem, there are lots of popular culture phrases that are problematic. Existential risk is probably the closest we have to a neutral and accurate term. -- Stbalbach 17:59, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I, as much as anybody else, I think, would like to see the various disparate articles mentioned throughout this discussion merged or otherwise coordinated some how (maybe a template, rather than a dab page?). However, AfD is not the place, maybe Talk:End of the World would be better (the title is similar to History of the World, and they've had a similar discussion over title issues). Is there a seconder? Xaxafrad 00:14, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Seconded! It would be nice to have all of this in one or two centralised articles, but that editorial issue is usually better resolved on talk pages rather than AFD. -- Black Falcon 23:57, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
2nd comment I've browsed around the other articles related to this topic, and compared a few specific doomsday events (the first 4 or 5 of the natural events) to the article Risks to civilization...yada, yada, and this article really seems redundant. If End of the world is taken to be the top-level concept, all other pertinent articles seem linked therefrom within 1-3 links (Eschatology, Doomsday, even End of civilization), therefore I would clarify my vote as Delete, replace with redirect to the Risks article, unless significant material is unique to Doomsday event (which should then be stylized with prose). Xaxafrad 06:54, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. — Nearly Headless Nick {C} 16:35, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Science Park High School (Newark, New Jersey)[edit]

Science Park High School (Newark, New Jersey) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This page has been created without authorization from the school that it represents. It has been discovered that a lot of the information is false and could be overall inaccurate. As the original creator of the page I have been requested by the administration to delete the page. KB. Sciencepark 01:41, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I do agree with your concerns over the article's content (though not notability itself), but those are cleanup issues, not deletion ones. I'll tag it for cleanup right now since somebody else agrees though. FrozenPurpleCube 03:51, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Article looks much better now. That's the way to do things, if material is unencyclopedic, poorly sourced, dubious, etc. Though some things, like ethnicity statistics, should also have sources. See Stuyvesant High School and Plano Senior High School for examples of how sourcing should ideally be done. But, the article is vastly better now. --Aude (talk) 05:18, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If an initial impressionof our school comes from an article on a site which appears to be a blog for anyone wishing to discuss the school then it can in our view be harmful to our students . There are other forums on the Internet for this and students may say what they choose there . Ihave read enough of the commentary to know that this isnot about what may be good for our school but hype about rights and censure and anything else one wants to say about our motivation . What is good for Wikipedia is an issue here and quite frankly the responsibility to act responsibly for this school is not yours.

  • In my honest opinion, what the students think about the school (besides the immature "Thiz skool suks" comments) should be a concern for the administration and interested parents. If I were a parent, looking for a school for my child, I would rather hear honest student opinions than what the school or school board says. This is similar to buying a product. The reviews of actual buyers are much more helpful and relevant to whether I, as the consumer, should buy the product than what the manufacturer says. I can't imagine the school posting controversies and problems with the school on the school website, but parents need to know those kinds of things. This is just an example, I'm not implying anything about the school being discussed: If a school has a problem with violence, parents need to know. Are they going to read zbout that on a school website though? Not likely. Mr.Z-mantalk¢Review! 21:07, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment For my part, were I a parent in that district, I'd be deeply concerned (although not in the least degree surprised) about a so-called educator with such a mediocre command of grammar, spelling and punctuation. I'd be extraordinarily concerned about any such so-called "administrator" who believes the Bill of Rights to be "hype." If the school was genuinely concerned about acting responsibly (provided this is really an administrator speaking), they would bust this yahoo back to janitor and take a good, hard look at the quality of their teaching. That aside, he's right in one thing and one thing only: our motivation is sure not about what's good for his school. Nor should it be. RGTraynor 21:19, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 08:43Z

No Broker Fee Apartments NYC[edit]

No Broker Fee Apartments NYC (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

PROD and "needs-wikification" tags removed by creator (only contributor) with no improvement. It's a fluffy bit of OR or a personal essay or how-to of some sort on its face, completely uncited. Also trying to weasel in or support several bits of blatant spam (repeatedly speedy-deleted) from the author. DMacks 02:26, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Transwiki to Wiktionary; since this was already completed the article will be deleted. Carabinieri 22:36, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of Spanish expressions in common English[edit]

List of Spanish expressions in common English (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

I've outlined my concerns on the article's talk page. In brief: contains multiple different types of Spanish words/expressions: those fully integrated into English, those virtually only used by people who speak Spanish, and those used by people who don't speak Spanish, but who recognize the words/phrases as "foreign" and unusual. Subject is almost by definition original research, as it deals with words and expressions supposedly often used in English but that won't be listed in any dictionary because they're not standard English yet. Page is also almost completely unsourced. Miskwito 02:43, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Veinor (talk to me) 01:34, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rochelle Holt[edit]

Rochelle Holt (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Fails WP:BIO, although has some sources, none are both independent and reliable. For example, the sources include the author's angelfire homepage, some fans geocities page, a general yahoo search cache. This may be a part of the main contributor to this trying to drum more notable alumni for Columbia Pacific University- all of the editor's edits are related to that or to alumni. I had prodded but the prod was removed, so here we are. JoshuaZ 03:12, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment a number of these publications are with vanity presses or are self-published. For instance, her novel "Mirage" is published by PublishAmerica, who are a vanity press. PublishAmerica will publish just about anything you send to them. JulesH 13:25, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Your continued call for the deletion of the article on Rochelle Holt is not only unjustified but even bizarre. Moreover, explaining the proposed deletion because, in addition to her MFA from the University of Iowa, she pursued further studies at Columbia Pacific University (CPU), [15], [16], is part of an orchestrated academic witch hunt. Since when is learning a crime? The defamation of CPU is part of the irresponsible misinformation phenomenon, which is described quite well, for example, in M. Scott Peck's book, People of the Lie (ISBN 0-671454927; Dr. Peck is best known for his best seller, The Road Less Traveled).
Your prejudice is unprofessional and should be brought to the attention of fair-minded Wikipedia administrators, contributors, as well as Wikipedia donors and in fact everyone concerned about the quality of the Internet, the advancement of knowledge and intellectual freedom.
The article on Rochelle Holt in its present stage clearly shows and documents that she is notable on several accounts and highly eligible to be featured in Wikipedia:
She is listed in the International Who’s Who in Poetry, London: Routledge, ISBN 0948875593, and her biography is featured at universities and literary publications. Please see Reference Section in article.

She received numerous professional awards, grants and honours, including nomination for the Pulitzer Prize. She is regarded by her peers as a major poet and a significant science fiction writer. A Reader’s Digest survey ranked her first among American poets. In addition to her numerous and well-received books, she published over 2000 poems in about 300 periodicals and magazines, and gave over 700 public readings at universities, schools, hospitals, libraries, bookstores and other places. She has originated a new literary genre within the category of the poem-novel, recognized by experts as a significant and innovative accomplishment. Her plays have been performed in theatres. As a publisher she has advanced the works of other professional artists. Among other things, she has published important scholarly work about the life and art of Anais Nin, Henry Miller, Lawrence Durrell as well as others and contributed to the development of literary theory.

I went through uncounted entries in Wikipedia, and I am amazed to see how many of them are basically just short notes about people who cannot really reach the level of notability as Rochelle Holt does, and nevertheless they are featured in Wikipedia.
Paul Hartal 19:30, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete It now appears that the most notable facts about Holt, such as her "Pulitzer nomination", are invented. -- TedFrank 00:25, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. New York University has my grandfather's paper collection.[19] I'm hard-pressed to argue that Nelson Frank meets Wikipedia notability guidelines. We still haven't seen the "Pulitzer Prize nomination" verified. -- TedFrank 19:55, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Actually, according the the source you provide, NYU has a collection that includes some of your grandfather's personal papers. The collection is not called the "Papers of Nelson Frank". Apples and oranges. On the Pulitzer information, I have found she was nominated by a collection of academics, but she apparently did not become a finalist. Only finalists are "official" nominees by Pulitzer standard, so I struck out that comment above. Vassyana 23:29, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Can you provide the source for this nomination? It would help a great deal. Thanks! Skinwalker 00:03, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't think to keep the reference because it did not validate the claim to being a Pulitzer nominee in the functional sense (that is, one of the three finalists for the appropriate prize category). If you're still interested in the source, please let me know and I will dig it up again. Vassyana 02:31, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
We're way off topic here, but they are referred to as the "Nelson Frank Papers" on the rare occasions when they are cited.[20], [21] I don't even see any indication that anyone has cited the Rochelle Holt papers.[22] Are we really going to have an article for everyone Anais Nin wrote a letter to? -- TedFrank 00:25, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I would like to point out that there is no such thing as the "small press prose" Pulitzer Prize, and the name "Rochelle Holt" does not show up anywhere on [23]. This claim is likely to be a fabrication. Skinwalker 20:10, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment."Division" is jargon for the origin market. Think of "small press prose" as comparable to "mid-market periodical", as an example. "Categories" are the types of prizes awarded. Vassyana 23:29, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That may be true, though the Pulitzer website does not list anything approaching a prize that fits these categories, nor does it categorize its literary prizes by market type (beyond fiction, nonfiction, and so on). More importantly, Ms. Holt's name is not listed anywhere on the Pulitzer website, even though they list all nominees after 1980 (before the text in question was published). Skinwalker 00:01, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
She would not be listed unless she was one of the three finalists in the appropriate category. Those are the only official nominees. That is why I decided to strike the Pulitzer claim. Vassyana 02:31, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pulitzer nomination was in the "small press fiction" category (a very minor thing) A non-existent thing, actually: they don't categorize that way. Fiction, Poetry, General Non-fiction, etc: very broad categories, really, and nothing to do with publication size. Even their journalism awards don't do that. --Calton | Talk 04:56, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As the author of ten books, most of them for sale now at Amazon.com and Barnes and Noble.com, former editor at Prentince Hall Publishers and Teacher at Ohio University, the University of Hawaii and The New School for Social Research, I feel I know much about literature. I have read much of Rochelle Holt's work and I feel she is a very competent writer. She is an excellent poet and can write fiction and nonfiction. Her work should not be removed.

Each reader can decide whether or not her work deserves attention.

Maryanne Raphael, Writers World Web site: www.authorsden.com/maryanneraphael 209.244.42.59 05:41, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

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The result was delete, "fair use" in Wikipedia isn't the same as fair use legally. Essentially, this page is using hundreds of fair use images just to show what they look like, with no critical commentary on any specific image, which certainly won't pass Wikipedia's fair use guidelines. - Bobet 13:31, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Gallery of Scout and Guide national emblems[edit]

Gallery of Scout and Guide national emblems (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

"Fair use" gallery. And the scare quotes are very deliberate. —Cryptic 03:17, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

support hold Chris 07:17, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete, despite valiant efforts, it appears there's very little source material available. Seraphimblade Talk to me Please review me! 03:47, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fazal Mohammed[edit]

Fazal Mohammed (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Trinidadian musical pioneer. Deleted as prod but restored on request. No opinion on the subject, but the article desperately needs sources. ~ trialsanderrors 03:34, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Majorly (o rly?) 22:27, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Adam Lyal (deceased)[edit]

Adam Lyal (deceased) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Page describes a non-notable street perfomer for a company which provides tours of Edinburgh. Street performer takes on the persona of a non-notable (though genuine) historical figure. Article explicitly states that historical figure achieved "little notoriety" beyond a few mentions of his execution in a local paper. Purpose appears to be self-promotional; links to myspace page and home page for tourism company. Irene Ringworm 18:32, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached
 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Quarl (talk) 04:07, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment consensus is that candidates standing in national elections (to call a Member of the Scottish Parliament a 'local government position' is inaccurate and potentially insulting) are notable whilst the campaign is ongoing. If the article was deemed self-promotional it should have been cleaned up, not deleted. As for 'news flash: blokes executed nearly two centuries ago can't announce that they're standing for office., to reply in a similar fashion, bollocks. There is nothing in UK law stopping this candidate standing for election as Adam Lyal (deceased). Nuttah68 19:27, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, but it's also not the original Adam Lyal, either. Which is who the article is about. 12.33.238.82 21:53, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • The article is about the original Adam Lyal, the tour company and the political campaign. That is why my original comment included 'delete parts about non notable C18 criminal and non notable tour company'. I despair that some people are incapable of reading or following a structured thread. Nuttah68 21:59, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
My original comment referred to a candidacy for a North Edinburgh council seat and was unaware of the ALWTP's Parliamentary candidates. My apologies to the Scots. Irene Ringworm 20:41, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. --Coredesat 14:47, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mark Molaro[edit]

Mark Molaro (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

A bio about a host of an online interview program. No non-trivial sources given, Google news and books search gave 0 hits. Doesn't seem that notable for an encyclopedia. feydey 14:46, 27 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 04:16, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete unsourced article, userfied others as per request Gnangarra 15:54, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lists of Australians by religion[edit]

List of Australian Catholics (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) -- Deleted
List of Australian Presbyterians (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) -- moved to User:JRG/List of Australian Presbyterians
List of Australian Anglicans (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) -- moved to User:JRG/List of Australian Anglicans

These lists are problematic since the inclusion of the people on the lists is unverified, WP:BLP states that the article should have a referenced entry that justifies the addition of a religion cat, and there are further guidelines in WP:Categorization of people - I'm assuming the same should be applied to people on a list. Delete. --Peta 04:18, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Unfortunately the article is a copyright violation as a direct cut and paste. --Steve (Slf67) talk 06:25, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well I guess you can tag it for speedy deletion on those grounds in addition to this nomination (and as I write I see you have). No worries, I'll just go to the original page for reference and categorization should do the rest. Blarneytherinosaur talk 06:33, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
How is that a copyvio? Yes, one source is bad, but there's nothing to stop me adding more entries to this page and it will just be a badly-sourced page. JRG 10:34, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's a blatant wikified cut and paste from a webpage. --Steve (Slf67) talk 21:44, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Did you even read my request? JRG 10:57, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Yes I did. You appear to have not addressed anything I have said though, the sum of which renders your request nugatory. See also Scott Davis' remarks below. SM247My Talk 22:01, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The problem with changing this sort of thing to categories is that you can put anyone in the category, and there's no way of verifying if anyone is an Anglican on the category page. I've started to attribute sources to all of the Anglican people, and it at least provides evidence that the persons in question have been or are involved in that particular church or denomination. I agree that the lists are very incomplete, but the way to stop that is to fix them up, not to delete them. JRG 00:49, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I still maintain that a list is different to a category; this list can be filled out and it will not be arbitrary to keep people (like Kevin Rudd) who have publicly espoused their association with the Anglican church. I think anyone who works for the Anglican church and is notable enough to have a WP article is not an arbitrary inclusion - Gordon Cheng and Tony Payne, for example, are notable Christian authors in the list that have worked in the Anglican Church (in stipendiary and lay capacity respectively) in the past (and still attend and are involved in Anglican Churches). While there are some arbitrary lists of Australians that should go, this one is one we can fix up. What's wrong with that? JRG 12:09, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Bishop should have a capital letter if it's someone's title. JRG 12:10, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If you check my recent edit history, I have voted to keep several of these, and kept one or two more from even being nominated. I agree that a list is different from a category, and the List of Justices of the High Court of Australia you recently added to Lists of Australians is appropriate. In my opinion, this one is not suitable as it is an incomplete list of people notable for something else who happen to also be Anglican. The person's articles should reference the Anglican connection, and put them in the category. It appears a number of people agree with me, and a number agree with you. Some poor admin has to make a decision based on this discussion.
"People who have Wikipedia articles" is arbitrary, and satisfied by categories. "People who should have Wikipedia articles for X reason" are lists with clear criteria.
Re capitals: I agree it should be Bishop X (or Justice X), but it should be "list of bishops". --Scott Davis Talk 15:05, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Being "unhelpful" is not a reason for deletion. Please cite a proper reason. JRG 12:09, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The header is more clearly stated than what you say. It is people who have clearly associated and identified themselves with the church in question, not just that they have had some vague association with them. JRG 09:18, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm happy to change the list name to that, but I don't think anyone is going to support me in that. JRG 09:18, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry about that. It can be difficult with potentially unbounded lists, and renaming may not convert those who've already taken a stance against it. Mermaid from the Baltic Sea 23:26, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support I'm happy for these pages to be userfied to JRG so that he can use them to monitor the development of the articles linked from here. I'm also happy if he wants to add the red links to Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia/To-do#People of Australia. --Scott Davis Talk 22:20, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not preempting any decision but I've copied to User:JRG/List of Anglican Australians to be safe --Steve (Slf67) talk 22:25, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That's complete rubbish. Please cite a proper reason if you want to take part in this debate. JRG 22:03, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure about a "dangerous precedent" - there are still plenty of worse examples. At least we're making an attempt to get the lists of Australians up to a standard of completeness and verifiability, and expunging the ones that can not be complete in favour of categories and more focused lists. The rest of the world is a bigger job than I want to take on. --Scott Davis Talk 22:20, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I suggested List of Anglican bishops in Australia above. I don't think that ordinary clergy are inherently notable, and a category is easier to maintain for clergy and lay people famous for something else who are also Anglican. That title covers both the current Anglican Church of Australia and Anglican bishops from before that separate organisation was formed. There is already a Category:Australian Anglicans and Category:Anglican bishops by diocese in Australia which only has 4 subcategories and one list instead of 25. The dioceses are listed in the rather short article Anglican Church of Australia. A few of those already have lists of their previous and current bishops. --Scott Davis Talk 00:00, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm all for a list of bishops; however, we do have some notable clergy who are not bishops and some lay people whose claim to fame is mostly to do with their work in the Anglican Church, and I'm not sure what we do with these people - maybe I'll stick them on the end of the particular diocese page. JRG 06:29, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The diocese is a possibility if they are associated with one in some significant way. The process I have used for biographies is 1) to make sure they are categorised properly and 2) look at the article and see which articles it links to should logically have a link back. Sometimes the logical link is from a subpage. It's usually obvious what made the person famous, and that is where the links to the article usually come from. --Scott Davis Talk 07:28, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete early per WP:SNOW Adam Cuerden talk 10:24, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Atheist-terrorism[edit]

Atheist-terrorism (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This page seems like it was created to make a pro-religion or anti-atheism point, in violation of WP:NPOV. NawlinWiki 04:23, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  1. Strong delete: Ugh. Entirely original research with no reliable sources. It also reads with a strong pro-religion and anti-atheism ideal, violating WP:NPOV (per above). Send this one off to Christpedia (Conserpedia?) or whatever it is named. Seicer (talk) (contribs) 04:26, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Upon taking another look at both articles there is a differnce which is that cited third party sources refer to it as "Islamist terrorism". Still POV but at least it's a record of someone elses, not an in house originally researched one. - Arch NME 10:19, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Atheism is not a main philosophical basis for any of these groups. Therefore, labeling them "Atheist-terrorism" is both wrong and misleading. If you want, indeed, start an article about communist terrorism, but this time please find acceptable sources. DLX 11:23, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I would have to disagree. Historical materialism (or philosphical materialism - Marx's term) is a keystone of communist doctrine. It rules out any rules out the existence of any supernatural entity. Every communist government has been officially and stridently atheist. It is an essential part of their goals and identity. Mamalujo 11:47, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see any sources calling all these groups athiest terrorists and that is what is important here. I took a look at that christian terrorism article as well and frankly that needs to go for some of the same reasons this one does. Let some one else make that call though as it might be looked on badly if you did, see WP:POINT. One bad article does not justify another. - Arch NME 12:03, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: More like an attack on atheism. Did you note his background?George Leung 08:16, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
EDIT: If no one object, I will go WP:BOLD, and rename it to communist terrorism, which does exist. George Leung 08:09, 8 March 2007 (UTC) EDIT2: DELETE. I am no inclusionist anymore! George Leung 08:15, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Redirect to Wayland, Massachusetts#Education. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 08:46Z

Happy Hollow School[edit]

Happy Hollow School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

non notable elementary school; I'm not sure how people justified their keep votes in the first afd - there was no claim of notability then, and most of a year later, still no claim of notability. There are probably about 500,000 elementary schools in the world; why do we need an article on this one? Brianyoumans 05:03, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 08:47Z

The Legend of Zelda: Lost Hope[edit]

The Legend of Zelda: Lost Hope (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable software. Previously prod'ed, so I am bringing it here. —ptk✰fgs 05:07, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 09:24Z

List of Australian contemporary artists[edit]

List of Australian contemporary artists (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
List of Australian Contemporary Artists (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (added by closing admin)

An almost empty, unmaintained list that is better served by a category Delete Steve (Slf67) talk 05:16, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Merge to Metal Slug 4. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 09:25Z

Trevor Spacey[edit]

Trevor Spacey (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable videogame character. Contested prod. Dennitalk 05:21, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Merge to Metal Slug 4. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 09:25Z

Nadia Cassel[edit]

Nadia Cassel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Contested prod. Non-notable gaming character. Dennitalk 05:27, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was snowball del An insult to common sense of notability. `'mikka 00:35, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Otis chodosh[edit]

Otis chodosh (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This article is a sub-stub. I commented on the talk page that "As I understand it, any of a hojillion different mathematical statements could be considered 'corollaries to number theory.' This article seems to be making something insignficant sound as if it were important. 45 + 15 = 60 is a corollary to number theory. I invoke WP:BALLS." Considering the lack of content in the article's present statement, the fact that the subject is only 19 years old, and George's law, I doubt that any notable information can be found. I'm always willing to reconsider in the light of new evidence. Deranged bulbasaur 05:31, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. Cbrown1023 talk 19:24, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Arwin![edit]

Arwin! (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

One sentence article about an "on hiatus" Disney Channel show that hasn't aired an episode. Article's unsourced, failing WP:A. NeoChaosX (talk, walk) 06:13, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy del. verifiable hoax. `'mikka 00:38, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bryan Anton Rose[edit]

Bryan Anton Rose (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Doesn't meet WP:BIO and I can't find the book he's supposedly written through Google. I considered a speedy but thought an AfD was better. Pigmandialogue 06:58, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep.--Wizardman 04:49, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Spangles (restaurant)[edit]

Spangles (restaurant) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

notability, WP is not a directory, edits consist of little but vandalism Chevinki 07:06, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Its true the piece could be written better, i still think that a cahin of 19 restaurants is singificant. If this chain were in Sydney, London or California or somewhere whether we'd be having this argument though. I really like the idea that facts from other places. How less significant is this rather than footballers or 1960s Playboy playmates or monsters in D&D all of which have entries...cheers, Casliber | talk | contribs 22:16, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If enough reliable and verifiable information exists about the subject to write a full and comprehensive article about it, it may make sense for the subject to have its own article. If some source material is available, but is insufficient for a comprehensive article, it is better to mention the subject under the article for its parent locality. If no source material, or only directory-type information (location, function, name, address) can be provided, the subject may not merit mention yet at all.

The most this article deserves is a Merge. This isn't even getting into all the spam and vandalism this article attracts and nobody seems to notice. Chevinki 22:34, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I updated the page substantially. It could probably still use some editing, since I'm not too sure about the tone, and because I wasn't at all familiar with the chain before updating the content. Since I went to the effort of adding so much content to the page, my answer is changed to Strong keep. :) --Strangerer (Talk | Contribs) 06:33, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If vandalism was the main issue then the answer would have been a protect or semi-protect rather than putting it up for deletion.cheers, Casliber | talk | contribs 10:36, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Vandalism wasn't the only issue. Read the entire comment. By assuming I did it out of any geographic bias you're violating the spirit of Assume Good Faith. I haven't assumed that you want to keep it because of any geographic bias but because you think the article deserves to stay on its merits. I expect the same courtesy in return. Chevinki 21:04, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete. Cbrown1023 talk 19:25, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Eckenweiler Water Tower[edit]

Eckenweiler Water Tower (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable municipal water tower. Descendall 07:10, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. Cbrown1023 talk 19:25, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Perry Broadcasting Tower[edit]

Perry Broadcasting Tower (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Yet another non-notable broadcast tower. Descendall 07:18, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. Cbrown1023 talk 19:26, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

FM- and TV-mast Helsinki-Espoo[edit]

FM- and TV-mast Helsinki-Espoo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable Descendall 07:24, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. Cbrown1023 talk 19:27, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pylons of Pearl River Crossing[edit]

Pylons of Pearl River Crossing (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This article gives a bunch of technical specifications of three power pylons in China, but it doesn't really give an explination why these pylons are important. Descendall 07:28, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not that I support all road articles, but non-specialists tend to be more aware of the roads in their area, & they could be said in t hat sense to be more notable.DGG 04:44, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
By that token, if several people know all aboutsome area of knowledge, such as "the ash trays used at Howard Johnson restaurants" or "British telephone booths" or "covered wooden bridges" wouldn't they be "more aware of" same and thus the subjects would become "inherently notable?" Why should anything be "inherently notable" just because a few Wikipedia editors are fans of it, absent some common notability criterion in terms of multiple reliable secondary sources? Edison 05:49, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm totally writing an article about ash trays at Howard Johnson restaurants, now.  :) —Carolfrog 02:54, 10 March 2007 (UTC) Oh, also—here. —Carolfrog 02:57, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was speedily deleted as a copyvio by BozMo. --Elkman - (Elkspeak) 16:30, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

DigiTech[edit]

DigiTech (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Page is purely an advertisement, written in the style of an advertisement, and serves zero educational, historic or other significant purpose Smullin 07:45, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 09:25Z

Fistogan Technique One[edit]

Fistogan Technique One (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
Fistogan Technique (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (added by closing admin)

This is apparantly a combat method for RPG games. There's no reason to suppose that it's notable, and no sources are referenced. Deranged bulbasaur 07:54, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, this is a Combat Method in Chat Rooms that is being developed from 'Sims' or 'T1-T2' versions.— Preceding unsigned comment added by RoleplayingHistory (talk • contribs)

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The result was Deleted by Swatjester. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 09:26Z

Gelta[edit]

Gelta (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

It's a non-notable neologism that appears to be something made up on TV one day. It's also little more than a dicdef as it stands. Deranged bulbasaur 08:09, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedily deleted by Fang Aili. MER-C 08:08, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Saving:Mitsuko[edit]

Saving:Mitsuko (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

no assertion of notability, reads like an advert, have not even produced an album Chris 08:12, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete. -Royalguard11(Talk·Review Me!) 01:57, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fiction/Action[edit]

Fiction/Action (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Article on a band that shows no sign of meeting the guidelines at WP:MUSIC. Proposed deletion contested by article creator. Catchpole 08:21, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedy delete g1, WP:SNOW, utter nonsense. NawlinWiki 13:20, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Water bees[edit]

Water bees (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This seems to be a hoax. It starts out reasonable, then gets more and more farfetched. No sources are cited, and a google search fails to confirm any of this. Deranged bulbasaur 08:27, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Seraphimblade Talk to me Please review me! 04:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Republic Bank & Trust Company[edit]

Republic Bank & Trust Company (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Notability: This article contains no information about the subject's notability. Robinson weijman 08:28, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete Love Indoctrination and Keep Jeremy Griffith. Cbrown1023 talk 19:29, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jeremy Griffith[edit]

Jeremy Griffith (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
Love Indoctrination (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Two articles about some guy with his own website and his psychological theory. If you can deal with the mind-numbing prose of this article and (especially) its related one Love Indoctrination, then you can pinpoint the rather obvious WP:COI and WP:ATT issues with accuracy. Prods removed by author. JuJube 08:27, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete Bubba hotep 11:04, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jay McCarey[edit]

Jay McCarey (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Non-notable actor. Director of unreleased film "Ashbury forever", which was deleted per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Asbury Forever. No sources. Reconsider after the film is released. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-07 08:34Z

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The result was Delete. Cbrown1023 talk 19:30, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yurika Hino[edit]

Yurika Hino (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

WP:NOTE

It won't hurt to mention that a more detailed article would seem appropriate.DGG 03:42, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps. Is that grounds for deletion? Snarfies 23:21, 2 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
 Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached
 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Quarl (talk) 08:39, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was one deleted by Garion96 due to copyright issues, the rest delete. Seraphimblade Talk to me 09:46, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Timeline of Faerûn: Present[edit]

Timeline of Faerûn: Present (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Contested prod. WP:NOT for plot summaries, no matter in which format you present them. This and the other timelines are in-universe only. "Wikipedia articles on works of fiction should contain real-world context and sourced analysis, offering detail on a work's achievements, impact or historical significance, not solely a summary of that work's plot." It is sourced (or at least, sources are given in the main Timeline of Faerûn article, and are published by the company that produces Forgotten Realms, so they are hardly independent sources anyway), but that's not enough to make it an article fit for Wikipedia. Articles are also not really included into the flow of the Forgotten Realms articles, as they are barely linked. Two of the six timelines are linked to by one relevant article, the other four are linked to by none. The lack of links in itself is not a reason for deletion, but shows that the articles hardly serve any purpose here, and coupled with the clear WP:NOT violation, they should be deleted.

Also nominated:

The reason that was given for the proposal was

"WP:NOT for plot summaries, no matter in which format you present them. This and the other timelines are in-universe only. "Wikipedia articles on works of fiction should contain real-world context and sourced analysis, offering detail on a work's achievements, impact or historical significance, not solely a summary of that work's plot." It is sourced, but that's not enough to make it an article fit for Wikipedia."

AFAIK, in modern usage "should" is not "must/has to". Therefore, there is no reason to delete this article.

Also, WP:NOT, heading Plot summaries, second sentence: "A plot summary may be appropriate as an aspect of a larger topic."

As far as I can see, the abovementioned timelines *are* aspects of a larger topic. — 62.224.109.237 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

But how can you justify a plot summary of this size? MER-C 09:51, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment One justification is that these plot summaries are just 1-2 sentance summaries of entire books. There just happen to be an amazing number of books. If this could be cleaned up and links added to the books containig this information it could be made into a great guide for the series. Anything with about a hundred books is hard to keep straight without some sort of timeline. Shimaspawn 15:33, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Well... If this got userfied, do you really think that there would be folk up to the daunting task of heavily reformatting this and adding such notations? As per my comment below, it's not that I don't think that it couldn't be done or is necessarily not worth doing, but I'm certainly daunted. Bitnine 15:49, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'd be wiling to work on it. I've been looking for a reason to crawl through my old novels, and I have an old copy of the offical timeline (circa ~1990's). Shimaspawn 16:08, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete. Carabinieri 22:47, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome To The Jungle (2007 film)[edit]

Welcome To The Jungle (2007 film) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Apparent self-promotion for non-notable, unverifiable student/amateur film project. ~Matticus TC 08:47, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Redirect to Institute for Ethics and Emerging Technologies. —Loremaster (talk) 2007-03-07 06:43Z

Dale Carrico[edit]

Dale Carrico (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

not notable lecturer DGG 08:55, 7 March 2007 (UTC) Lecturer on rhetoric ; his page at San Francisco Art Institute gave an error message, and he could not be found by their search engine. I added his page at Berkeley, where he is a lecturer and from which he obtained his doctorate in 2005. Has not yet published any books. His CV (link added) lists 8 papers presented , but I cannot tell if any of them are published. All refs given seem linked to him. By the standards for academic people, clearly non-notable.[reply]

NOTE: I've merged the content of the Dale Carrico article with the Institute for Ethics and Emerging Technologies article so the Dale Carrico page will now redirect to it. We should close this AfD debate. --Loremaster 16:41, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep--Wizardman 04:53, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I Love You Mi Vida[edit]

I Love You Mi Vida (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable song. No real content contained in article. TomPhil 09:24, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Identity (philosophy). The target article defines an identity as transitive. There's not really anything else to merge. [[Identity (mathematics}]] is far less applicable, in this case. — Rebelguys2 talk 03:41, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Transitivity of identity[edit]

Transitivity of identity (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Redundant article that borders on dictionary definition - while the transitive property of identity is an important one, I am not convinced that it requires its own article, given that we have an article on Identity (philosophy) which mentions that identity is a Transitive relation. There is really nothing more to say about the topic, other than to give examples - which already exist on that page for transitive. I really don't see any way this can be expanded from what it is - a one-line mention in another article, padded out by examples that could be covered on a linked page. Haemo 10:32, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment of course people use the phrase in proofs! It's a basic property of identity. That doesn't make it any less redundant. People also use the phrase "symmetry of identity" or "reflexivity of identity" too. That doesn't mean they're in any way capable of producing an article that isn't redundant. --Haemo 23:52, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • At present a google search of wikipedia doesn't have the phrase anywhere where it is defined. Someone looking what the phrase means wouldn't be able to figure it out without the article. While a person "knowledgeable in the art" would know where to look, they'd also know what it is. So I stay with Keep. --Hobit 17:11, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I listed this for deletion, and not merging, because there's really nothing there to merge in the first place. There's the definition, one good example (but there are already examples on Transitive relation) and one example which doesn't make sense. --Haemo 00:05, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The problem with merge and redirect as an option is that the concept applies as much to Identity (mathematics) as it does to Identity (philosophy). I'm not sure how to resolve this. JulesH 17:03, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Seraphimblade Talk to me 09:48, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Blaggards[edit]

Blaggards (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable band per WP:MUSIC The first debate had no consensus, article or sources have not improved since and the band does not seem to have become more notable. RJASE1 Talk 17:58, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Seraphimblade Talk to me 09:52, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Adam Levin[edit]

Adam Levin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
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The result was delete. Seraphimblade Talk to me 09:54, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

KGRL[edit]

KGRL (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Advertising; non-notable Internet radio station per WP:WEB. All sources provided in reference section are self-published, and are simply discussion or mentions of the site, nothing establishing notability. Contested prod. RJASE1 Talk 13:31, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. Carabinieri 22:49, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cork's apple[edit]

Cork's apple (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

There is no real evidence that this exists, and no sources cited on the page. Kntrabssi 10:56, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep.--Wizardman 04:56, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ANAA[edit]

ANAA (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Notability. This article provides no reason why the subject is notable. Robinson weijman 11:02, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete Bubba hotep 11:09, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alvin V. Cheeks[edit]

Alvin V. Cheeks (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

While he seems to have accomplished things, the companies/groups he's formed rank low on the Google test, many hits leading to mere listing pages or sources getting their info from Wikipedia. His name gets even fewer hits, failing WP:BIO in my opinion. Pigmandialogue 19:06, 3 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

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Bard varges[edit]

The result was speedy delete Bubba hotep 12:51, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bard varges (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

It's a silly article that adds no worth to Wikipedia. No idea what the topic is and seems to be vandalism JDCMAN 12:28, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep at new name. Seraphimblade Talk to me 10:01, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of important homeopaths[edit]

List of important homeopaths (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Crufy list of people with only a very few described. Wouldn't surprise me if some of the names weren't advertising additions. Very few on the list have articles. Adam Cuerden talk 12:39, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • I'm changing my position to abstain in view of the renaming, pruning and arguments made by Peregrine Fisher and Black Falcon. I'm not sold on the value of the list, but enough has been done for me to withdraw my support for deletion. The main homeopathy article is already so long that I don't see a merge as a practical solution.--Kubigula (talk) 04:26, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Redirect to Homeopathy. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 09:27Z

Homeopath[edit]

Homeopath (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Crufty list of initials. Doesn't seem very Wiki to me. Adam Cuerden talk 12:45, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 09:28Z

Go Go Clown[edit]

Go Go Clown (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Unsourced neologism, creator removed prod without comment. FisherQueen (Talk) 12:52, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep, any possible merges are left as an editorial decision. Seraphimblade Talk to me 10:10, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Drug dynamization[edit]

Drug dynamization (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

POV fork of a section of Homeopathy, though it might be an appropriate subject for an article if it wasn't a POV fork. Adam Cuerden talk 12:54, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Seraphimblade (talk • contribs) 10:10, 15 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

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The result was Keep. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 09:28Z

John Henry Clarke[edit]

John Henry Clarke (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

The article does not establish him as notable, and I find it hard to believe more information could be forthcoming. Adam Cuerden talk 13:04, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Seraphimblade Talk to me 10:13, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Materia Medica Pura[edit]

Materia Medica Pura (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Crufty, unencyclopedic list. Adam Cuerden talk 13:14, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Veinor (talk to me) 23:13, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alvin_Veroy[edit]

Alvin_Veroy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Orphaned page for non-notable hacker interviewed once by a newspaper six years ago StuartDouglas 13:21, 7 March 2007 (UTC)))[reply]

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The result was Delete. Cbrown1023 talk 19:31, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

52 City of Calgary Royal Canadian Air Cadet Squadron[edit]

52 City of Calgary Royal Canadian Air Cadet Squadron (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

As per a portion of WP:ORG that seems to have consensus, this is an individual chapter of a national organization that does not display its individual notability. The only sources on the page are links to its sponsor's page. It was listed as a proposed deletion. The proposed deletion tag was removed with the edit summary "I don't think this article should be deleted because, IT IS INDIVIDUALLY NOTABLE. This squadron was the first squadron to be formed in Calgary and has a long history of excellence." Note that there are hundreds of Royal Canadian Air Cadets squadrons in the country -- hundreds of them were the first to be formed in their community, and all have history of excellence. (Note to those that like to search Google for topics: you might have luck abbreviating Royal Canadian Air Cadet Squadron to RCACS.) Sancho (talk) 15:55, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment (from nominator): Here is a List of Air Cadet Squadrons in Canada. Only one squadron has a Wikipedia article, which I haven't nominated because it provides the claim that it is the first squadron in Canada, not just in its community. I didn't make this nomination because the article on the first Royal Canadian Sea Cadet Squadron in Canada was nominated for deletion, but was kept, because it was the first in Canada. Here is the discussion that resulted in that article being kept: Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/RCSCC_Victory Sancho (talk) 16:02, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Veinor (talk to me) 23:15, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A Cheap Name[edit]

A Cheap Name (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Non-notable song that hasn't been released and has no fixed release date. Prod removed by anonymous user. Mr. Darcy talk 22:46, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 09:29Z

British Raj Indian Restaurant[edit]

British Raj Indian Restaurant (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This article is more about an event than the restaurant itself. Also, it reads like a promotional piece. The event seems barely notable despite the media coverage. Ginkgo100talk 19:07, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Keep. Rlevse 21:32, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

City and Colour[edit]

City_and_Colour (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) - (View AfD)

It is redundant to have the Dallas Green and City and Colour articles separate. City and Colour is Dallas Green, and the Dallas Green page is all about his music. For example, artists like Billy Corgan, or Tom Petty don't have articles solely for their solo projects, again because its redundant. Also, its useless to make a separate page with the same recycled info as the original, except with less actual information that the original and with improperly sources images.

City and Colour is just a moniker, one that Dallas didn't even use his latest album anyway..

jerkmonkee 04:31, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

--Seraphim Whipp 13:42, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. Seraphimblade Talk to me 10:17, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Family Office[edit]

Family_Office (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) - (View AfD)

Article was originally created by a page-moving vandal, since has been nominated for deletion via prod, but template removed by anon editor who did not provide a compelling reason or improve the article. Is currently merely a long definition, and I don't see how it could be much else. Michaelbusch 17:57, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Wikipedia is not a dictionary. Wikitionary, maybe. Michaelbusch 01:36, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.wallstreetandtech.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=159904336

http://www.umass.edu/fambiz

Handbook of Family Business and Family Business Consultation, Florence W. Kaslow Ed., The Hayworth Press, Inc.,2006 p.367

The Handbook of Estate Planning, Robert A. Esperti and Renno L. Peterson, Mcgraw, Hill, Inc., 1991

Family Wealth: Keeping it in the Family, James E. Hughs, Hughs & Whitaker, 1997

Family Foundations Now and Forever: The Question of Inter-Generational Succession, Paul N. Ylvisaker, The Council on Foundations, 1991

Philanthropy, Heirs & Values. How Successful Families are Using Philanthropy to Prepare Heirs for Post-Transition Responsibilities, Roy Williams & Vic Preisser, Robert. D. Read Publ., 2005

http://www.foxexchange.com —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.92.109.81 (talk) 15:25, 13 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

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The result was keep. — Rebelguys2 talk 03:47, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Foxton Fizz[edit]

Foxton Fizz (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

notability, (google only gives 10 hits when you search - 9 w/o WP Chevinki 07:53, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Really? I get about 296 for "Foxton Fizz" -wikipedia and they seem to be about the drink too. Rich257 11:29, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That's really bizarre. I typed it in 3x last night just to make sure I got the spelling right and the results correct. Now google's listing 1,430 results. Is this a google thing? And it's worth pointing out that most of the referenced pages are still mentioning the drink in their myspace or in a forum post. That's still not that notable. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chevinki (talk • contribs) 19:39, 7 March 2007 (UTC). Chevinki 19:40, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 09:30Z

Furtado Equation[edit]

Furtado Equation (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
Electron Tunneling (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (added by closing admin)
Electron tunneler dynamics (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (added by closing admin)

This article, and the two related ones created by the same user, may not be patent nonsense to a general editor, so I didn't flag for speedy. But I think they are all patent nonsense to any physicist. I'd appreciate feedback on whether I've done this right, it's my first time on AfD. Philip Trueman 11:01, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. Closing a little early as the consensus is already evident and the continued presence of this article is rather odorous. kingboyk 13:10, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

information Note: An earlier version of this article was deleted in 2003, before the AfD system was established.

List of multiracial people[edit]

List of multiracial people (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This list is offensive, has no place on wikipedia, has no value as a resource, and could contain a plethoric amount of names.

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The result was Keep. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 09:31Z

Marge Gamer[edit]

Marge Gamer (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

I am nominated this article for deletion per WP:HOAX. As you can see here, google gets no hits for "Marge Gamer" at all. I removed it from the episode list, but I forgot to sign in, so my IP did it instead.Hondasaregood 23:35, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Definitely no deletion. Could use a merge, but plenty of songs have their own article, and someone can always be bold at a later date. — Rebelguys2 talk 03:49, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Metalingus (song)[edit]

Metalingus_(song) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) - (View AfD)

Do not delete — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gostanford22 (talk • contribs) 2007/03/06 15:35:42

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The result was Speedy Keep. The version nominated for deletion was a vandalized version. utcursch | talk 13:40, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Shivani[edit]

Shivani (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) - (View AfD)

Shivani is a student at UC berkeley. She is a TA in Public Health 116. She loves Relay for Life. Shivani Mehta is very active on the UC Berkeley campus and she has also been part of the UC Berkeley Raas Dance team, which won first place in the 2007 dance comp and are ranked 4th in the country. Shivani comes from the Hindu name Shiva. Shivani mean strong, confident, and cheerful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Calbears9785 (talk • contribs) 2007/03/06 00:52:05

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The result was early close and delete because of copyright violation [51]. A remake may be possible. Adam Cuerden talk 23:53, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

George Vithoulkas[edit]

George Vithoulkas (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)


Pure advertisement, and appears to be written by the subject, at least at the start. no new material seems to have been added since (Though copyright violation was fixed). Adam Cuerden talk 14:25, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]


I have to tell you that George Vithoulkas is one of the greatest practitioners of homeopathic medicine in the world. I know little about the technicalities of Wikipedia, but I do know about homeopathy. His textbook, the Science of Homeopathy is a great book and has remained in print in USA, UK and or India since its original publication in Athens in 1978. I am proud to have a signed copy, which he gave to my uncle Dr K Gardikas, then a professor of medicine and dean of the medical school of Athens University. His work in helping people with severe chronic disease is amazing; Francis Treuherz, Edtor of the Homeopath, journal of the Society of Homeopaths, UK. - Unsigned

We need reliable sources. Noone is offering them. Adam Cuerden talk 18:37, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I know we're supposed to assume good intentions, but you've strayed far beyond being merely disingenuous and are now wandering in the land of the trolls. The article (at the time you nominated it for deletion) had a huge list of sources including: Pubmed, Who's Who, Google Scholar, British Library, Papyros-Larousse-Britannica, International Directory of distinguished leadership, National Libary of Medicine Catalog, SCIRUS, the Swedish Parliament, the Hungarian government, [54] the Indian Health Ministry and others. That list was poorly presented but there is no way you can look at that list and tell me that the article "lacked sources" for establishing his notability. If you search for the name "Vithoulkas" in Google you get 95,000 hits. You might argue that some of those hits are for other guys called Vithoulkas but I challenge you to browse through those hits. I can assure you that you will find that roughly 98% of them are for George Vithoulkas the homeopath. --Lee Hunter 21:25, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think the Right Livelyhood Award is a reliable source. Also his book "Science of Homeopathy" is a reliable source. A list of his English books at Amazon.com can be found here ( http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/104-8489252-5159152?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=vithoulkas&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go ). I think this is also a reliable source. Dr. Krischer 19:04, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

wonderful, if they are in the article and reliable then, as I said above, Keep AlfPhotoman 19:08, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment the external website of the Right Livelihood Award as a source has been in the article since before nomination for deletion if anyone wants to read it. Nuttah68 19:40, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
But is it reliable, or particularly notable? It's a small orginisation set up to give out prizes for... well... alternative medicine, the environment, art, etc. [55]. It is *NOT* the Sweedish Parliament as has been claimed around here. Adam Cuerden talk 23:31, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. Seraphimblade Talk to me 10:23, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cultural references to Frank Zappa[edit]

Cultural references to Frank Zappa (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Delete - this is an indiscriminate collection of information and a directory, seeking to capture every reference to Zappa in every medium with no regard to the importance or triviality of the appearance in the source medium or the real world. Oppose merging the content back into the main Frank Zappa article. Otto4711 14:26, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WP:USEFUL is not a compelling argument for keeping. All sorts of things are useful while still being unencyclopedic. And I dispute that a list of every time Frank Zappa is name-checked in any form of media is "useful." Otto4711 15:10, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, but that's not what this list is in its entrirety. Zappa has an extensive filmography which is scarcely referenced in his main article, for instance. I agree, it's not noteworthy every time a garage band namechecks Zappa in a song, but that's an argument for editing and sourcing the article, not for deleting it. ObtuseAngle 20:14, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • This article is not a filmography. If it were a properly sourced filmography I would have no issue with it. This is a collection of every reference to the man bunged together. We have deleted similar articles for Jimi Hendrix, The Who, Aerosmith, Rush, Aleister Crowley and others for being similarly bunged together lists. Otto4711 20:08, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would say that a collection of every reference to this particular man is quite an encyclopedic subject. Your precedents form an indiscriminate collection of AfDs and a directory, seeking to capture every case that could serve to favor a bandwagon with no regard to the notability of the individual articles. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Beatles trivia (3rd nomination) for a counterexample. –Pomte 00:55, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • What a cute entry. It was adorable how you took my words and repurposed them to try to discredit the arguments for deletion. Got anything to say that actually pertains to the nomination? Otto4711 04:46, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • See below for my comment. I would also like to direct you to this page. People will disagree with you ... deal with it (and move on). I know you have valid reasons for not doing a bulk nomination, but when you nominate articles separately, each will be considered on its own merits. As much as I hate the name of that redirect, it can make a point quite strongly: WP:OTHERCRAPWASDELETED is not a valid reason to delete this article unless the articles are identical in nature. Obviously, there is disagreement about the extent to which they are identical. I am also posting a comment on your talk page. -- Black Falcon 03:41, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • If you thought this belonged in the Zappa article I have to ask why you forked it off to begin with. Otto4711 20:31, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's irrelevant to this discussion. But anyway, I didn't say it all belonged in the Zappa article, I said some stuff could be worked back into the main Zappa article if it is to be deleted. ĤĶ51→Łalk 20:39, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, it kind of is relevant, since it contradicts in large measure your stated reason for wanting to keep this article or merge any of its contents back where it came from. Otto4711 22:21, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't understand how it contradicts my stated for wanting to keep the article; I never stated this information belonged in the Zappa article, just that parts of it can be merged if need be. ĤĶ51→Łalk 22:38, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:BHTT and WP:AVTRIV. If the best or only reason for an article full of trivia is to keep it out of the main article then the trivia article should be deleted. The solution to crap information in an article is to delete it, not fork it off and make it into someone else's problem. Note that a number of "...in popular culture" articles (including the ones I linked above and many others) are being deleted. Otto4711 04:42, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • A number are being kept. –Pomte 00:55, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Most are being deleted. Otto4711 21:35, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • And again, WP:LIST is not the end-all be-all. If a list is otherwise unacceptable, then letter-perfect conformity with WP:LIST does not save it. Otto4711 15:09, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's not indisciminate. It's about Frank Zappa and relted cultural references. - Peregrine Fisher 18:09, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • And the Hendrix list was about Hendrix and cultural references. Deleted as indiscriminate. The Who list was about the Who and cultural references. Deleted as indiscriminate. The Aerosmith list was about Aerosmith and cultural references. Deleted as indiscriminate. The C96 list, the Semtex list, the Calvin and Hobbes list, and on and on, all lists about the subject and cultural references. All deleted as indiscriminate. Otto4711 20:50, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Then do a bulk nomination to settle the matter. This stand-alone nomination implies that we should analyze the importance of this particular article only. –Pomte 00:55, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not every pop culture article is as poor as this one. A mass nom would get bogged down and would accomplish nothing. Otto4711 04:43, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • First, we would need criteria for which items is notable and explain why the ones leftover are not. –Pomte 00:55, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:USEFUL is not a compelling argument in favor of keeping an article.Otto4711 21:35, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ok. Point taken. Then just stick with the rest of my entry, and forget about this bad word. As I see all the guidelines, they are all rely - to some extent - on subjectivity in the end. Well, I think the article is worth improving istead of deleting.--HJ 00:59, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was speedy deleted as an utterly implausible search term. Mangojuicetalk 16:28, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alpha beta gamma delta epsilon zeta eta theta iota kappa lambda mu nu xi omicron pi rho sigma tau upsilon phi chi psi omega[edit]

Alpha beta gamma delta epsilon zeta eta theta iota kappa lambda mu nu xi omicron pi rho sigma tau upsilon phi chi psi omega (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Highly unlikely that anyone will ever type this exact string of words. Also, when searching for Greek organizations and societies that don't have articles, this one shows up at the top of the suggest list (when no one searching for a fraternity will need). OverMyHead 14:59, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It could/should be, but as I didn't know that WP:RFD existed, I put it here. (I removed the actual redirect because I thought that it would prevent the AFD notice from showing up.) OverMyHead 15:55, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete. Jersey Devil 02:24, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of breakcore artists[edit]

List of breakcore artists (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Unmanageable list, full of redlinks, seems to be a magnet for any breakcore artist trying to make a name for themselves with a wiki page. Improbcat 15:29, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. - Bobet 13:12, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sir Keith Arbuthnot, 8th Baronet[edit]

Sir Keith Arbuthnot, 8th Baronet (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Contested prod with the edit comment of 'notable'. This article is a biography where the only claim to notability is the title, Baronet. The title, although 'it is a hereditary honour', it 'is not a peerage and has never entitled the holder to a seat in the House of Lords'. This means that the title has no claim to notability based on heridtary right of input to the British Parliamentary or legal systems. So, whilst the first holder of the title may have (had) a claim to notability through the title, all subsequent holders claim to notability based on the title is that a family member may have been notable. Long established consensus is that 'notability cannot gained from relationship' and 'Wikipedia is not a genealogical database'. As the article offers no other claims to notability the subject fails WP:BIO and as the article offers no sources per WP:ATT it also fails policy. Nuttah68 15:43, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: This page is a vanity page. Sir Keith Arbuthnot has no notability bar his hereditary title. It's quite clearly a vanity page. Just because some Baronets are notable doesn't mean this particular chap is. Florence Nightingale, for example, was notable - but that doesn't automatically mean wee Jeanie from the Southern General is notable because she happens to be a nurse also. No offence to nurses, by the way, first example that came to mind. Vanity page, get it off. T.Ball.CFC 00:55 13 March 2007 (GMT)
(this is the first edit from this editor--Vintagekits 00:58, 13 March 2007 (UTC))[reply]
Actually I can assure you this is not a vanity page. I know him and (1) he is not marginally vain and (2) he is intensely private. WP:AGF - Kittybrewster 02:16, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, can you pleae confirm what if any family reltionship this person is to you?--Vintagekits 12:44, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Not so close. You work it out. - Kittybrewster (talk) 12:56, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: the nominator here, about whom I can find virtually no information, has been accused on his talk page of "abusing the speedy deletion process by nominating articles that are not clear targets for speedy deletion." He appears from that page's contents to be very busy in deleting other editor's work. David Lauder 13:27, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, If I was you I would not worry about the editor who has nominated I would concentrate on proving some sort of notability other the inheriting a minor title.--Vintagekits 13:32, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, Well, you're not me, and your sneering comment about "minor titles" (I take you don't have one?) is also uncalled for. I am indeed worried about editors who are deleting pages all over the place. Do you have no respect for the overall project here? David Lauder 13:38, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, you've lost me! what sneering? Baronet is a minor title! What overall project? As for title - I am a Volunteer what are you?--Vintagekits 13:49, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please note the usual abusive and dismissive tone this editor has employed since his first day on Wikipedia, as well as his direct assertion of involvement in a terrorist organization ("I am a Volunteer" has but one meaning in this context). These provocations and this hatemongering unprofessionalism should no longer be tolerated.O'Donoghue 12:58, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest you read WP:NPA and WP:CIVIL, before you go any further, and also WP:TPG. Bold should be avoided. (And the St. Vincent de Paul is not a terrorist organisation.) Tyrenius 02:32, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, Volunteer is neither a title nor a rank. - Kittybrewster 14:37, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, Well I can assure you I do not seek or wish to have a title but the guys down in the St. Vincent de Paul appreciate the time and help I give! Now back to proving notability for this dude - have you got any proof of notability? otherwise I am going to leave me !vote for delete or merge.--Vintagekits 14:55, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, I'm referenced in numerous sources, phone book, electoral register, dispatches, ship's log, promotion boards and so on. However, none of these establish notability. Would you care to add to the article text and references that explain the subjects notability? Nuttah68 16:04, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, Was it necessary for you to respond in such a sneering manner here? David Lauder 13:29, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, he is not sneering simply pointing out that just because he is mentioned this does not mean he is mentioned for anything notable. If you read the Baronet page you will see that it states "A baronetcy is unique in two ways: *it is a hereditary honour but is not a peerage and has never entitled the holder to a seat in the House of Lords; and
  • a baronet is styled 'Sir' but a baronetcy is not considered an order of knighthood." I think this shows it is a minor title and does not convey notability.--Vintagekits 01:16, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, and they do not confer notability either. This guy is listed in a some books as just being alive (along with 1,000's of others with minor titles) - there is zero "depth of coverage" which a requirement of WP:BIO and ghits for "Sir Keith Arbuthnot" are mirrors.--Vintagekits 15:24, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: If a baronet is announced at a function people don't run up to him and ask him what his career is! Being a baronet is notable in itself. David Lauder 16:22, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, Because, as the Wikipedia page on this points out, "Order of Precedence is a sequential hierarchy of nominal importance of people", so either they are important enought to be in that order, or not. Is it your suggestion that regardless of whether a State regards someone as important, you don't, and you wish Wikipedia to adopt a similar policy? David Lauder 13:33, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, - So are dustman and chimney sweeps! Maybe we should have an article on each of them also!?! As for your asertion that "it consumes very little in resources" - that is not a valid argument to keep this article. Please try and base you !votes on wiki policy.--Vintagekits 11:53, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Can we please base !votes on Wiki policy and not on whether or not you "like it" or not as the case my be. Inheriting the title of Baron or Baronet is not in itself noteworthy and therefore fails WP:BIO and even the defunct proposal of WP:NOBLE. I will look at this again in a few days before I !vote but unless some other form of notability can be proven that does not relate to simply holding one or more honorary titles then I am leaning towards delete. Also adding "strong keep" as two editor have done above on the basis that this person is a Baron is in my opinion showing strong signing of POV rather than basing !votes on wiki policy.--Vintagekits 17:33, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, Firstly, a baronetcy and a barony are differen things. All barons are automatically notable in Wikipedia, as all were, until recently politicians also. This has nothing to do with being "honourary", which is a word meaningless in this concept. Of couse editors have to express PoV here, without a point of view as to whether the article should be kept it would be impossible to comment at all! --Counter-revolutionary 17:47, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, - Counter-revolutionary you state that "All barons are automatically notable in Wikipedia" - can you show me where it states this in wiki policy?--Vintagekits 11:19, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - WP:BIO suggests that "politicians who have held international, national or statewide/provincewide office, and members and former members of a national, state or provincial legislatures" are automatically notable. In the UK, a Baron until recently had an automatic right to sit in the national upper legislature.--Counter-revolutionary 17:47, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - So thats Baron's covered but its NOT Baronet's. --Vintagekits 12:04, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment Also, WP:BIO says he is notable if he is part of the "enduring historical record". Aren't noblemen part of the enduring historical record? Davidicke 21:13, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Not unless they satisfy WP:N and WP:BIO which most do as they got a seat in the House of Lords - which Baronets dont!--Vintagekits 12:04, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment There are well over 1,000 baronets, and if they are notable, then so are all Knights of different hues, etc, and there's a lot of them. Are baronets really *automatically* notable? EliminatorJR Talk 19:26, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment >1 000 minor British aristocrats automatically notable? Clearly not. The fact that they appear in widely distributed works of reference (Burke's, Who's Who...) suggests that someone somewhere thinks them potentially notable. The fact that those works of reference are provided for consultation in libraries in UK and (especially) those corners of the Anglosphere where for good and bad reasons many people have a warm fuzzy feeling for British tradition (ok, I'm thinking of most of Canada outside of Quebec, but I think it also applies elsewhere) suggests either that the acquisiton policies of those libraries are wrong or else that people are interested. Should they be interested? Is that a question for us to ask? Should all >1 000 baronets get a wiki article? Only if a wiki contributor (who is also, presumably, a more than averagely committed wiki reader) bothers to write one. Several people seem to have bothered to contribute to the article on Arbuthnot, tho I agree that no one seems to have found anything very compelling to write about him. But that's my judgement (and I guess yours). Will all >1 000 baronets get a wiki article? Same answer: seems unlikely. That applies across all categories: there are thousands of academics who deserve a wiki article. Some get them: some don't. Ditto medieval bishops. Ditto very small towns in Ohio. There is a wiki constituency who think Arbuthnot is interesting: we disagree. Maybe we disagree about other much more important issues about which we both feel much more passionately: I hope we are not going to move from that to seek to restrict one another's rights to express our opinion. The web offers huge possibilities for opening up knowledge: it's impossible to know which bits of knowledge will be most valued in five or fifty years time. But the troubling aspect is the way that by commonising our knowledge database, the web is actually being used to try and impose sets of politically convenient values on the rest of us. I think that this does not lie comfortably with the wiki mind-set. Or am I wrong about the wiki mindset? Ah, well... Have a nice day anyhow. Charles01 12:19, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • What? Can you please stick to outlining how this person is notable as per wiki policy. You state that "Several people seem to have bothered to contribute to the article on Arbuthnot, tho I agree that no one seems to have found anything very compelling to write about him." therefore you do not think that he is notable. It sound like you are arguing in favour of a merge to Arbuthnot baronets rather than a keep. Can you please make it clear why exaclty you think that this person in notable--Vintagekits 12:27, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
He has stated "keep".--Counter-revolutionary 15:24, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, Who's Who is not a reliable source as pre WP:RS each of the sections are self written and not checked by an editor - this section is from the Who's Who (UK) article and speaks volumes! -

"Who's Who has been criticised for being too old-fashioned. For example, all members of the English, Scottish, British and United Kingdom Peerage and Baronetage are included, however minor their achievements, but many better-known people, such as some leading footballers, are not. Occasional problems arise with the publication's reliability as a reference source, because the entries are compiled from questionnaires returned to the publisher by the featured subjects. This has resulted in notable biographical omissions; for example, the playwright John Osborne did not acknowledge an estranged daughter in his entry. Carole Jordan does not mention any marriage in her article, although her ex-husband, Richard Peckover, does in his." --Vintagekits 11:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment, out of interest I went and looked at a copy of Who's Who 2007 and Debretts just to see what level of depth it goes into on people. Firstly Debrett's - this is 1,797 pages - with approximately 13 entries per page and the Sir Keith Arbutnott entry does not state anything notable about him only when he was born and the names of his family members.
Who's Who - this is pretty much the same book as far as I can see just with even more people, the UK edition alone is 2,529 pages long this year and it has on average 16 people listings or referral's per page - you do the math on the amount of people in it then. Each page is split into two columns with 100 lines per column so that 200 lines per page (over half a million lines in the book). The entry for this person is 6 lines long in one column - that includes a line for his name and address of where they live - the other four lines include where he went to school and the names of his family members inc. ex. wife. In fact the article is almost word for word what is the article except it has no crest shown and it uses abbreviations for much of the textile. There is no mention of anything notable that he achieved except that he went to university. Both entries in both books are identical as far as I can see - are they connected in some way or compiled in the same way?
Anyway in both the is no depth of coverage and there is also no assertion of notability.--Vintagekits 13:18, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment No, there are actually articles on things Elizabeth did with her life which were productive and which were controversial. She has also been a character in a movie which gained an actress an Academy Award. She also has served as a constitutional monarch. Perhaps you are thinking of her distant relatives who are claimed to be notable solely on the basis of their birth. Edison 23:14, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, - Jcuk, your comparision with Elizabeth II is a pretty flawed argument. E2 was a monarch and has had books written solely about her.--Vintagekits 11:19, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment Yes, I've even got coins in my pocket with her face stamped on them. She has a highway in Canada named after her too. Davidicke 21:15, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I would also contend that deleting biography stubs like this goes against the ethos of the Wikipedia Baronetcies project and will upset the lineage. What should be called for here is not deletion but further research and input to expand the article. David Lauder 13:01, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment, so are you asking us to ignore wiki guidelines in favour of what? and given your comment above don’t you think that considering your comment here when you state that Debretts is not a reliable source but now you are using it as a source that you are hypocritical and voting on the basis or what you like or not and on the basis of wiki policy. Arn't the entries in Debretts actually written by the people themselves?--Vintagekits 21:42, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: According to The Guardian article of 1989 their editors said that they themselves select notables for their publication. That was 1989 and the publication I cited from was 1988. I knew David Williamson and when he was editor things were done differently. The point here is not what was said on other AfDs but what is being said here. I was answering the remark on notability made by the nominator and I believe that I correctly answered that. David Lauder 22:12, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment a redirect to the Arbuthnot Baronets is fine. I have no problem with an article for the title and articles for notable holders of the title. Where it seems faintly stupid, is splitting an article out from the Arbuthnot Baronets (or any other Baronet page) when there is nothing more of note to add. Nuttah68 17:28, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I don't believe we can consider Debrett's – worthy publication though it may be – to be a granter of notability, because their criteria are different from ours; specifically, they are more interested in notability by reason of title than we have yet decided (by consensus) to be. – Kieran T (talk) 20:06, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment We have decided, by consensus, that anyone considered worth commenting on by multiple independent reliable sources is notable. So the fact that Debrett's et al consider this person worth publishing information about does influence whether wikipedia (by consensus) considers the person notable. 22:49, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
comment I agree he's notable - but, if he is only notable for his title and ancestry, then perhaps he and his predecessors should have their articles merged into the article Arbuthnot Baronets? As for the question of Debrett, I'd suggest notability is not subjective - a secondary source reputable on this particular topic should suffice for establishing notability, as long as it makes more than a trivial mention of him. If Debrett's is reputed, and if the entry is non-trivial, that should be swell, yes? Davidicke 21:03, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Response to a comment: Not really. Sorry to appear argumentative. But the famous Debrett's publication (from which I suspect their others are in part drawn) is basically a list of certain types of ranks, with a bit of pertinent info on the entries. Publication in a book doesn't equal notable, no matter how true or reputable. – Kieran T (talk) 00:46, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
CommentYou appear to wish to speak "to editors" from a position of superiority which, alas, does not accrue to you. I would say from reading your comments on this page you are biased against people with titles. As you are so repetitive, I shall join you: like it or not, being a baronet is notable in itself in Great Britain. WP:N is a guideline only, and the template on that page specifically states: "it is not set in stone and should be treated with common sense and the occasional exception." I think that if you have an axe to grind you should remove it from Wikipedia, instead of trying to use Wikipedia guidelines or rules as a cover. David Lauder 22:22, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, "trying to use Wikipedia guidelines or rules as a cover" - maybe my comments just sound superior because I use wiki policies to make my decisions instead on POV.--Vintagekits 00:09, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrary section break 1[edit]

All of the above can by generally stated as voting within the anti Irish republican and pro British unionist/ monarchist.

It started with Astrotrain nominating a number of Volunteers from the Provisional Irish Republican Army and canvassing during those !votes. [56] [57] [58] [59] [60] [61] [62] Canvassing for AfD !votes for Raymond Gilmour [63]

Since then there has been what I consider a systematic abuse of the AfD system with a number of a same editors arriving at an AfD on a subject which they either like or dislike and voting to delete or keep on POV rather then wiki policy. The first AfD that occur was –

James McDade AfD Nominated by Astrotrain. Result – ‘’’Keep’’’ 13 votes to Keep and 1 to Delete – that vote by as Astrotrain – therefore 100% of the delete !votes from “the group”.

Then [Montgomery] – this AfD was nominated by Astrotrain on the basis of non notability. However Tyrenius ended the AfD because of a source that stated that Montgomery was involved in a murder.

Then Antoine MacGiolla Bhrighde AfD, this AfD was nominated by Astrotrain on the basis of non notability. Result – no consenus to delete, Keep 7 votes and Delete 7 votes – 5 of those votes from “the group” – therefore 71% of the delete votes to delete from “the group” in an article that was kept.

Then Charles Breslin AfD, this AfD was nominated by Astrotrain on the basis of non notability. Result – no consenus to delete, Keep 4 votes and Delete 4 votes – 2 of those votes from “the group” – therefore 50% of the delete votes to delete from “the group” in an article that was kept.

Then Martin McGartland AfD, this AfD was nominated by Astrotrain on the basis of non notability. Result – Keep, Keep 10 votes and Delete 1 votes – that of Astrotrains

Then Diarmuid O’Neill AfD, this AfD was nominated by Astrotrain on the basis of non notability. Result – No consensus, This is where the real vote staking operation started and canvassing came into effect. Keep 20 votes and Delete 10 votes – 5 of those votes from “the group” – therefore 50% of the delete votes to delete from “the group” in an article that was kept. Note the first eight !votes were to Keep and that is when the canvassing started and since then there has been almost total lock step.

Then Charles Breslin AfD, this AfD was nominated by Astrotrain on the basis of non notability. Result – no consenus to delete, Keep 4 votes and Delete 4 votes – 2 of those votes from “the group” – therefore 50% of the delete votes to delete from “the group” in an article that was kept.

Then we had a AfD of a biography relating to a member of the “British nobility”. This was the Robert_Murray_Arbuthnot AfD, this AfD was nominated by Argyriou on the basis of non notability. Result – Delete, Keep 4 votes and Delete 9 votes – 3 of those votes from “the group” – therefore 75% of the votes to keep from “the group” in an article that was deleted

Again back to an Irish republican and the Martin_McCaughey AfD, this AfD was nominated by Tyrenius on the basis of non notability. Result – Keep, Keep 16 votes and Delete 12 votes – 7 of those votes from “the group” – therefore 58% of the votes to delete from “the group” in an article that was kept.

Similar behaviour and calls for deletion in an number of AfD’s of members of the Provisional IRA East Tyrone Brigade such as the Tony Gormley AfD – bios of each of those that were merged not deleted can be seen on the of the bottom of the page that they were merged to.

The Óglaigh na hÉireann (CIRA splinter group) AfD, this AfD was nominated by Astrotrain received no delete votes and result was speedy keep'.

The Republic UK AfD, an anti monarchy organisation where they all !voted delete for an article that was kept.

There are on going AfD’s which the same pattern at the Federal_Commonwealth_Society| (here is where admin MrDarcy highlights this potential stalk voting), Lady_Mabel_Fitzwilliam and now here.--Vintagekits 01:59, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: What a scandalous load of rubbish. So every time the same editors appear on an AfD they are all in collusion or have been canvassing? If that is the case we could probably list dozens of AfDs where the same (but other) editors have appeared. this is a childish and infantile attempt to do nothing other than cause trouble and to cast others in a bad light. David Lauder 11:35, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, No scandal, no rubbish - facts provided to prove canvassing and a pattern of POV block voting - this is making a mockery of the whole AfD system.--Vintagekits 11:52, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: and how many of these votes have you participated in, Vintagekits? [Luke 6:42]. --Major Bonkers 21:47, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Martin McGartland seems proof Vintage is wrong again. - Kittybrewster 22:17, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That is your opinion ONLY but others differ in this. David Lauder 11:35, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, article should be judged on WP:BIO, WP:BLP and WP:N.--Vintagekits 02:01, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Quite agree. There is nothing here that is not sourced public domain info. - Kittybrewster 22:17, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment No, the proposer of this AfD is not prepared to come back later. The article has already been in existence since June '06 (9 months) and no one has been able to provide references confirming notability. Even a stub must provide references per WP:ATT and 9 months is more than enough time to do this. Nuttah68 08:24, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Untrue. Three of the most "reliable sources" on persons of notability carry this baronet and all three are cited. If there is a time limit within Wikipedia's rules as to how long a stub may stay up unexpanded then please point us to it. David Lauder 09:31, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Even a stub needs to show notability, particularly when challenged at an AfD. If all the people endorsing keep are unable to add substantially to the article it effectively invalidates their position, which becomes merely an opinion. Tyrenius 03:31, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment:It is "the opinion" of three of the most prominent works on important people in the UK that this baronet is notable. They are cited on the article page. If that is not sufficient, how many do you require? David Lauder 09:31, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, No it doesnt reflect society - Who's Who is not a reliable source as pre WP:RS each of the sections are self written and not checked by an editor - this section is from the Who's Who (UK) article and speaks volumes! -

"Who's Who has been criticised for being too old-fashioned. For example, all members of the English, Scottish, British and United Kingdom Peerage and Baronetage are included, however minor their achievements, but many better-known people, such as some leading footballers, are not. Occasional problems arise with the publication's reliability as a reference source, because the entries are compiled from questionnaires returned to the publisher by the featured subjects. This has resulted in notable biographical omissions; for example, the playwright John Osborne did not acknowledge an estranged daughter in his entry. Carole Jordan does not mention any marriage in her article, although her ex-husband, Richard Peckover, does in his." --Vintagekits 11:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Arguments in favour of keep - 16
Arguments in favour of keep or redirect- 1
Arguments in favour of redirect/merge - 4 (+1 anon)
Arguments in favour of delete - 3
- Kittybrewster 15:09, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Exactly, I would also note that a number of !keep votes are from those who have been involved in canvassing amongest each other and also a number of other !keep votes from with other highly suspicious activity - i.e. no activity from a number of month and then they reappear to !vote here which is a strong sign of 1. that they are a sock or 2. that there is canvassing activity elsewhere outside of wiki. Putting that aside this is not a democratic vote it is the strength of the argument that counts and many of the above are basising the keep !vote of that basis that he is a Baronet which has been shown that it is not automatically notable unlike a Baron which gets a seat in the Upper Houses of the UK parliment --Vintagekits 15:15, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Those arguments are worse than weak, they are wrong. Most Barons and other peers do NOT get seats in the upper houses of parliament. Both peers and baronets have to have their claims verified by the UK Government home office, upon being proven their are entered on the Roll Of Peers or Baronets, and take their rank in UK Society according to the order of precedence which is enshrined in law. If the UK were like the Italian Republic where there is no government verification or recognition of titles or their rank then you would have a point, as it is please research your statements. If you are using length of service on Wikipedia as a mark of importance, then you can't exactly deny the British aristocracy their importance in English society can you. As Orwell pointed out in Animal Farm, you can't get rid of elitism, you can only replace one form with another. AnnabelBuxton 11:17, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment AnnabelBuxton is not quite right here. Until 1999, Barons in the Peerage of the United Kingdom were automatically eligible for a seat in the House of Lords, subject only to a) "proving" their claim to the title, and b) applying for a "writ of summons" (which is a purely formal step). As Annabel correctly notes, Baronets are also subject to the requirement to prove their claims, and a baronetcy does not make a person eligible for a seat in the House of Lords. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:04, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep the article:

1. The move to delete Keith is based both on his rank and and on the rank prejudice of the would-be censor(s). 2. The article, although brief, appears accurate. A special place in the Wikipedia pantheon. 3. There are bigger fish to fry.
For the conspiracy theorists among us. This is my first contribution to the Wiki process under any name. I do not know Keith. But I am an American, and we don’t stand too much on ceremony. At the same time, this country has a long agricultural tradition. Tunnah, I can smell fertilizer an ocean away. You seem to be producing way more than your share.Eamon76 19:55, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment, This is the first ever post from this editor, highly suspicious - from here there are a number of !keep votes from people without basing them on wiki policy - there is possibly signs of "off wiki" canvassing. --Vintagekits 10:45, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I hope that the word 'prod' used here by Nuttah (or indeed Tunnah) is Wikipedian for 'proposed delete' rather than Glaswegian for Protestant (see Prod). -- roundhouse 09:32, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, Let go through the article rationally to see if he is notable.
  1. The son of Sir Hugh Arbuthnot, 7th Baronet by his first wife Elizabeth Kathleen (d.1972) daughter of Squadron Leader George Algernon Williams, was educated at Wellington College and Edinburgh University, where he received a Bachelor of Science. (not notable)
  2. His brother is David Arbuthnot, racecourse trainer. On 3 July 1983 he succeeded to his father's baronetcy. (not notable)
  3. Arbuthnot has married twice: (1) May 22, 1982, to Anne Rosemary, younger daughter of Brigadier Peter Moore (divorced 1997); (2) February 14, 2003, Alison Jane Warner. (not notable)
  4. He has issue by his first wife, Robert Hugh Peter Arbuthnot (b. 2 March 1986), Patrick William Martin Arbuthnot (b. 13 July 1987), Alice Elizabeth Mary Arbuthnot (b. 22 March 1990) (not notable)

Seems pretty straight forward.--Vintagekits 13:05, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrary section break 2[edit]

    • Comment,A telephone book is a reliable secondary source - however it give no "depth of coverage" - The main issue here is "Depth of Coverage" - Who's who is a listing and provides no "Depth of Coverage". A Baron who obtains a seat in the House of Lords is notable - however although a Baronet might seem/sound very similar they are infact very different and the title of Baronet does have any really power and is an honorary title - unlike Duke, Earl and Baron. This persons article is solely based on his title and as he would not have an article otherwise and does not comply with WP:N or WP:BIO then he should not have an article.--Vintagekits 10:04, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, Who's Who is not a reliable source as pre WP:RS each of the sections are self written and not checked by an editor - this section is from the Who's Who (UK) article and speaks volumes! -

"Who's Who has been criticised for being too old-fashioned. For example, all members of the English, Scottish, British and United Kingdom Peerage and Baronetage are included, however minor their achievements, but many better-known people, such as some leading footballers, are not. Occasional problems arise with the publication's reliability as a reference source, because the entries are compiled from questionnaires returned to the publisher by the featured subjects. This has resulted in notable biographical omissions; for example, the playwright John Osborne did not acknowledge an estranged daughter in his entry. Carole Jordan does not mention any marriage in her article, although her ex-husband, Richard Peckover, does in his." --Vintagekits 11:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment, I meant that inclusion in WW is sufficient indication of notability. -- roundhouse 13:24, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, It is patently not - as stated above, I went and looked at a copy of Who's Who 2007 and Debretts just to see what level of depth it goes into on people. Firstly Debrett's - this is 1,797 pages - with approximately 13 entries per page and the Sir Keith Arbutnott entry does not state anything notable about him only when he was born and the names of his family members.
Who's Who - this is pretty much the same book as far as I can see just with even more people, the UK edition alone is 2,529 pages long this year and it has on average 16 people listings or referral's per page - you do the math on the amount of people in it then. Each page is split into two columns with 100 lines per column so that 200 lines per page (over half a million lines in the book). The entry for this person is 6 lines long in one column - that includes a line for his name and address of where they live - the other four lines include where he went to school and the names of his family members inc. ex. wife. In fact the article is almost word for word what is the article except it has no crest shown and it uses abbreviations for much of the textile. There is no mention of anything notable that he achieved except that he went to university. Both entries in both books are identical as far as I can see - are they connected in some way or compiled in the same way?
Anyway in both the is no depth of coverage and there is also no assertion of notability.---Vintagekits 13:30, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I meant that inclusion in WW is sufficient indication of notability. -- roundhouse 13:39, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, I know, you said that but its not especially as each of the 40,000 entrant fills out their own questionaire and effectively writes their own entry - there is no depth of coverage and in this case no claim of notability within the entry and therefore an entry in a book of listing is not enough for pass WP:N - why dont we just have an articles on everyone in the phonebook!--Vintagekits 13:45, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Let us agree to differ on this matter. I wonder how many articles there are in Wikipedia on living British people. Rather more than 40,000 perhaps. -- roundhouse 14:07, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Agree to disagree on what? Are you saying that there is a depth of covering in Who's who? Are you saying that all 40,000 people in the Who's who listing get automatic notability on wiki, if so please show me where it states that in Wilipolicy? we have a lot more than 40,000 Bios - and they must all comply with WP:N, WP:BIO/WP:BLP or they should be deleted.--Vintagekits 14:35, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Enough. -- roundhouse 15:31, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Enough what? enough you cant rationalise your comments or enough you dont want to rationalise your comments, to pass someones qwuery of your comments off by just say I have had enough of disucssing with you seriously weakens your arguement. Please note this is note a vote as such it is a discussion and the decision will be based on rational, reasoned and well constructed arguement. regards--Vintagekits 15:41, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment:It seems to me that the (presumably unconcious) atavistic tribalism in which many of the contributions here are marinated is a much more fascinating, and also a much more serious subject than the issue of whether one fellow's favourite baronet is more or less deserving of an article than another fellow's favourite singer. Many wiki readers have not grown up in the heroic traditions of either Irish Republicanism or of British Imperialism, and would be thoroughly baffled by the passions stirred here. You thought Irish Republicanism and British Imperialism were off topic for this discussion? Take another look. There are plenty of honourable traditions that have from time to time been rendered scurrilous by the atrocities perpetrated in their names. Time may lead to more balance. But how many centuries will pass before an objective viewpoint is widely accepted concerning the crusading movements formally launched outside Clermont in 1095? Wikipedia is about knowledge. Both the honourable bits and the scurrilous bits deserve to be known: you can agree on that even before you will agree over which are which . If the more animated of the protagonists participating here think they will convert each other to one another's cause, then I think that they are doing whatever it is they are doing into the wind. And they must surely know it already. Wiki is trying to build knowledge: where it succeeds in that, it is to be commended. Excluding articles on 'people we don't like' (whether from personal knowledge or simply because we are riled by the curious names by which they wish to be known) reduces the overall bank of knowledge available and thereby renders more suspect that knowledge which remains uncensored. You will not convert your most committed opponents to your cause, least of all by haranguing them and seeking to exclude articles on matters that interest them. But you might at least enhance your own case to the unpersuaded by devoting your undoubted talents to maximising the information (information = facts) available on the causes about which you feel most positively. I guess that is what underlies my own instinct (?prejudice) in favour of retaining and improving articles about ... almost anything that anyone has bothered to write about in cases of stated doubt. So yes, my ‘keep’ vote is to be construed as a vote for knowledge and not as a vote for the British Empire, a subject on which my further views are mercifully out of scope.

There also seems to be a move afoot to encourage selective quoting of statements of wiki policy in support of one's viewpoint in this discussion. I forgot every wiki-policy I ever read so just I took another look. Here are a few quotable bits I found I agreed with after thirty seconds of clicking:

“Articles that can be improved should be edited or tagged, not nominated for deletion.”

“…but ...in some cases, repeated attempts to have an article deleted may even be considered disruptive. If in doubt, don't delete.”

“Treating others with respect is key to collaborating effectively in building an encyclopedia.”

I had wondered, as these discussions unfolded, whether I was indeed guilty of having misconstrued the wiki mind-set. It may be so: I certainly don't expect to acquire an intimate knowledge of all the wiki policies any time soon. But it does (still) seem to me that the wiki mind-set prefers wider and deeper knowledge over opinion and censorship. When in doubt, please share the facts with the rest of us and let the facts build your case, especially where you find the facts offensive: you may gather more converts than you'd expected. As for Sir Keith Arbuthnot, I still wish that someone somewhere would find something more interesting to write about him.

For better or worse, I fear I may have alienated anyone else who feels strongly enough about matters thrown up by this article to have participated in the discussion about it. But in the event that you're still there, thank you for reading this.Charles01 14:19, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment, this is not an issue of POV or of keeping knowledge away from people (censorship if you wish) this is an issue of notability. You stated in your keep !vote "The guy must have done something interesting since leaving uni" or else he wouldnt be in Who's who. There are a few things are wrong with that 1. That is not a strong reason to keep and it not based on wiki policy 2. he hasnt done anything noteworthy since uni (or at least nothing is stated about this is the article) 3. Who's who automatically gives a listing to Peers and Baronets if they reutrn their questionaire, so its not on merit and Wiki does not apply the same critieria 4. Wiki is not a crystal ball, we cannot assume that he must have done something or will do something or note if there is no proof.--Vintagekits 14:31, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Actually, that is based on wikipedia policy: WP:N states that any subject that's discussed by multiple independent reliable sources is notable. Who's Who and Debretts are independent reliable sources. It doesn't matter, as far as Wikipedia's policy is concerned, what policy they use to determine notability: the policy we use is to note that they have determined that this person is notable. JulesH 19:47, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, Neither Who's Who or Debretts are independent reliable sources as the entires are written by the people themselves - additonally there much be a depth of coverage, there isnt and additional it does not make any asertion to notability as per WP:N or WP:BIO--Vintagekits 22:43, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TamB (talk • contribs).
  • 8th edit by this user. Tyrenius 02:06, 13 March 2007 (UTC) [reply]
  • Note per AfD Wikiquette — The accusation VANITY should be avoided [64], and is not in itself a reason for deletion. However, if you think it doesn't belong on Wikipedia, surely you should be advocating "delete", rather than "merge", which keeps the content. Tyrenius 02:10, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Actually I can assure you this is not a vanity page. I know him and (1) he is not marginally vain and (2) he is intensely private. - Kittybrewster 02:18, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Arguments in favour of keep - 22
Arguments in favour of keep or redirect- 1
Arguments in favour of redirect/merge - 5 (+1 anon)
Arguments in favour of delete - 3
- Kittybrewster 22:09, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, this is a discussion not a vote - you have been involved in "lock step" voting and canvassing before so any AfD that you are involved in needs to be treated with a lot of caution.--Vintagekits 22:43, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I am indeed - with you it seems. You always argue against my perspective. Stop shadowing me, chum. - Kittybrewster 01:20, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrary section break 3[edit]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy deleted by Rlevse[65]. Michaelas10 (Talk) 21:11, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Isbran[edit]

Isbran (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This (TV show? Movie? Webcast? Book?) has zero sources and does not actually exist. Proposed deletion contested by IP. And please don't suggest BJAODN because it's really not that funny. ... discospinster talk 16:07, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. John254 17:00, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Caesium perchlorate[edit]

Caesium perchlorate (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Contested prod, no opinion. The article has been sitting the the notability category for over 8 months and I would like to see if this 2 line article is notable. Diez2 16:25, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

*Delete... I could only find the following references:

M. Senegaonik and S. Paljk. Fallout Analysis of Atmospheric Water Precipitations. Fresenius' Journal of Analytical Chemistry, Volume 232, Number 6 / November, 1967. pp 409-426. ISBN 0937-0633 - (Mentioned in one sentence describing how its isolation is avoided in their method)
US Patent No. 4491529 - (Used as one of the nucleating agents)
Even when searching for "CsClO4", only 170 Google hits were returned, and I could find no non-trivial mentions of this compound. Sancho (talk) 18:06, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I do think that the importance tag is indeed worded wrong (because it is being used to imply that there is a notability problem), but that argument is really irrevelent to this AfD. Diez2 22:33, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

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The result was copyvio. —Cryptic 17:20, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Convergence (band)[edit]

Convergence (band) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Doesn't appear to meet WP:MUSIC. No third-party sources, for all the external links; and that the logo is licensed as pd-self is especially troubling. Disputed prod. —Cryptic 16:29, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 09:34Z

List of things sharing names with Finnish presidents[edit]

List of things sharing names with Finnish presidents (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

I don't see how\why anybody would use this list Yonatan (contribs/talk) 17:25, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Listcruft? Probably not. Consensus is overwhelmingly saying to keep, though. — Rebelguys2 talk 03:51, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of people born at sea[edit]

List of people born at sea (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

unsourced listcruft Yonatan (contribs/talk) 17:34, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedily deleted under speedy deletion criterion G1. – riana_dzasta 05:11, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Heelclick[edit]

Heelclick (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Contested prod. Article is bordering on nonsense, and seems to be a term used by pupils at a certain school Lurker oi! 17:39, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Keep. Carabinieri 22:43, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Rajan Sankaran[edit]

Rajan Sankaran (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Seems like an advertisement. Makes vague claims of notability, but they come down to what I believe are self-published books and having his own medical practice. Unless there's more evidence of notability than the article's vague assertions, I don't think he's really notable. Adam Cuerden talk 17:42, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This could be a keep had the subject not been aliveShyamal 07:08, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The issue of self-published books is a complete red-herring. His books are widely distributed and available anywhere that professional literature on homeopathy is sold. They've also been incorporated into the main commercial homeopathic databases and they've been reviewed and discussed in journals in his field. I don't understand why you think being dead makes one a better candidate for notability. I've done some cleanup of this article and added links to more journal reviews. --Lee Hunter 12:37, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was redirect from typo. `'mikka 00:48, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wilhem scream[edit]

Wilhem scream (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Page is a mispelling of an existing page, completely erroneous--Manwithbrisk 18:37, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete unreferenced slang. IrishGuy talk 22:15, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Shambag[edit]

Shambag (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

The article purports to describe a stereotype, the name of which is a slang word. Searching for sources I find none at all that document any such type of person, let alone that can be used to confirm any of the contents of the article (such as the clothing preferences of this type of person). This article is documentation, being constructed firsthand directly by Wikipedia editors, for something for which there is no prior documentation outside of Wikipedia; it is original research, which is forbidden here. There's no evidence that this is even an alternative name for the stereotypes that are documented, such as chav, so no support even for a redirect. Uncle G 18:31, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete -- Bubba hotep 11:26, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Watsonville Vending[edit]

Watsonville Vending (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Company appears to be a very local vending machine distributor. No notability is asserted in the article, and notability sufficient to meet the requirements of the WP:CORP guideline is unlikely UnitedStatesian 19:22, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - crufty, synthesized nonsese, hyper-reliance on a single source with extensively padded endnotes. This article if chock full o' cruft and synthesis. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 18:46, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus, except that everyone seems to agree cleanup is needed. Seraphimblade Talk to me 07:36, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lightsaber_combat[edit]

Lightsaber_combat (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Fails notability standards; poorly and improperly sourced. Jtrainor 19:12, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: One can always hope, along with the articles based on every single variant model of battlesuit that ever got ten seconds of screen time on any ep of Mobile Suit Gundam, individual Pokemon articles and the like. RGTraynor 14:50, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No need to get hostile or bellegierent, and try to AGF on my statement. I said it's all sourceable, and isn't material made up by people (and yes I know what OR means). It comes from the games (numerous books and video games, fine as sources), the comic books (fine as sources), the novels (40+), etc. It's a content matter, not a policy vio of an article. please argue based on policy with examples. - Denny 08:13, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Who's getting hostile? You completely sidestepped all the problems with the article with vague proclamations about sources, while still not addressing the notability argument. This article pretty clearly fails the noteability guidelines. Jtrainor 06:07, 12 March 2007 (UTC)Jtrainor 05:56, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Declaring something to be non-notable doesn't make it so... Lightsaber combat is a central feature of six of the most popular films of all times. It is central to DOZENS of novels, which also do touch on the forms and so forth mentioned here, and I saw last night that Lucasfilms is actually coming out specifically with a book about the Force in their fictional world this year now, which will additionally cover all this material. I'm not sure I understand your claim of it not being notable. have you watched any star wars film, or read any of the novels? This is all sourceable--I'm simply saying that the article expanded without people actually adding footnotes as often as needed, and more people are saying the exact same thing basically. Whether it's fictional or silly is illerevant. A film series of six movies alone where each film makes roughly $1,000,000,000> from release through to DVD, about a family whose people basically do "Lightsaber combat" makes "lightsaber combat" notable, before you even get into all the monster volumes of side material...
I challenge you politely to explain how it's not notable, as your non-notability push is perplexing and baffling... thanks... - Denny 13:18, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Care to explain exactly how this meets the standards under WP:Notability? Jtrainor 09:45, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strawman/red herring, I didn't say the wikis were RS. I said they had listings of all the RS, down to detailed breakdowns of which book featured which thing (fighting form, etc.) detailed in THIS article. The sources exist in abundance, and anything officially owned by Lucasfilms is a fine RS for the Star Wars articles. The ONLY question is one of notability, but being as the lightsaber combat features heavily in six of the most successful films of all time, and a hit TV show (Clone Wars) plus other old (80s) animated shows, plus the forthcoming live-action Star Wars shows, plus 30-40+ novels... yeah, notable. But that is the ONLY question here. The rest is article clean up stuff. - Denny 20:55, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 09:35Z

Drewn[edit]

Drewn (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Contested prod with the reason 'Not notable"? Are you kidding me? What kind of relative reason is that?'. Unsourced article on a non notable drinking made up one day by the author. Nuttah68 19:50, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Seraphimblade Talk to me 08:07, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jessica London[edit]

Jessica London (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Rewrite (I assume) of deleted article; notability is still unclear FisherQueen (Talk) 19:53, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 09:36Z

Socialbutter[edit]

Socialbutter (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

With an Alexa rating of only 914,367 I don't feel Socialbutter is ready to be a Wikipedia article. I do want to point out that I strongly support the gay rights community and hope that one day this site is popular enough, but for now it doesn't seem to be notable. PoeticX 20:13, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 09:37Z

Divine Boards[edit]

Divine Boards (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Nn website, fails WP:WEB. Deprodded by author. — Matt Eason (Talk • Contribs) 20:35, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously this forum is stronger than most advertised here at Wikipedia. I am not calling this advertising because it isn't. It's a legit article on a legit internet site. Now, if you delete this one, you would, in theory, have to get rid of the NSider article, GTF Outsider, and all of the other 'forums' out there. Since you perceptibaly won't do that, then this needs to stay.

I feel that this page is not advertising... It is a strong forum and has been around for a long time. If you feel that this is advertising, then why not take the other forums down as well? Just because they are bigger does not mean that they are not advertising also... Please consider keeping this page... --Divine Boards 20:35, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I added an achievement made by Divine Boards...--Divine Boards 22:48, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
These are not compelling argument for inclusion. Read the standards under WP:WEB. Also, I sense that you might have a WP:COI here. --Haemo 00:15, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Alexa, FYI, is a site with software that tracks Web sites and ranks them according to their relative traffic; a number of us use it to gauge the relative popularity of a website. A ranking above #1000 is pretty darn good, much below #10,000 fairly insignificant, below #100,000 a blip at best. If you don't register at all, you've just not established any degree of importance. I'll tell you what, though; take your website to Britannica or Encarta and see if you can get them to include yours. If they sign off on it, it'll be good enough for us. Ravenswing 02:05, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I will regester with alexa and Britannica/Encarta... Thanks...--66.140.211.156 03:29, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please add new comments to the bottom of the discussion, not the top. Thanks — Matt Eason (Talk &#149; Contribs) 20:28, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I dont think this is resolved yet... They seem to think it is not good enough. I will not give in, these guys forums have a right to be here.--204.184.141.253 20:52, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No, it really doesn't. Wikipedia is a privately-owned encyclopedia, and articles must conform to Wikipedia policies and guidelines. This article's backers have consistently refused to explain how it satisfies Wikipedia criteria. The only way to save it is to do so. Ravenswing 21:53, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
How are our reasons not acceptable? You've yet to provide any proof whatsoever that the site passes the notability criteria at WP:WEB. — Matt Eason (Talk &#149; Contribs) 20:53, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think you've misunderstood the meaning of 'published works' in WP:WEB - we don't mean things like posts on the forum, we mean things like newspaper articles and TV documentaries. — Matt Eason (Talk &#149; Contribs) 22:36, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No, I did not misunderstand you... Divine posts updates on events relating (V-Games) and members post reviews. I agree that these are contained within posts, but it is just as affective... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.140.208.8 (talk • contribs).
We're talking about published works about Divine Boards, not works published by them. — Matt Eason (Talk &#149; Contribs) 22:51, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yah, I just posted one here... Just type in DIvine Boards here (Wikipedia) and you get the article...--66.140.208.8 05:33, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Do you seriously not see the problem with that? --Haemo 05:55, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I see a huge problem... You wont let Divine Boards be on Wikipedia...--66.140.208.8 06:00, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, then I will spell it out; a Wikipedia article cannot be sourced from itself. As such, this is not a source which constitutes a published work under the guidelines. --Haemo 23:55, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Divine Boards did not post itself... I dont own it, I just posted it here...--66.140.208.8 05:22, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is this conversation over? You haven't deleted the article, so it must meet the requirements to stay, right? Can we take the 'article for deletion' tag off of it now?Join Divineboards.co.nr 21:12, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
AfD debates last up to five days. So far you haven't shown us anything that would suggest it meets the criteria at WP:WEB, so it's likely to be deleted by an administrator after then. Please do not remove the AfD tag from the article. — Matt Eason (Talk &#149; Contribs) 21:18, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This conversation seems over, yes, but possibly not in the way you would wish. As Matt correctly points out, you've completely failed to demonstrate how this board passes WP:WEB. You're running out of time to do so. Let me phrase this in a way that might resonate with you: this is like me asking you to be credited with winning a computer game without actually playing it, and figuring that if I'm persistent enough in asking I'll be handed the credit for victory, no monster-bashing or problem-solving required. Possibly you might want me to prove I can do what I claim I did before you give me props for doing so. Ravenswing 22:49, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Have you not seen Nsider? That forum is more of a trivial, non-reliable source than anything I know, yet you still have it here... Does that not violate your little rule?--66.140.208.8 06:03, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete, as having no content, beyond a copyvio of tangentially related statistics from [70]. After removing the copyvio, what is left is "Derrytresk is a place outside coalisland" and "This place is legendary,", which constitutes a csd a1. - Bobet 13:04, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Derrytresk[edit]

Derrytresk (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable place - just a group of houses near a Coalisland. Article is a vandal magnet, with most edits originating from a vandal IP (a local college) that appears to be creating random articles for experimentation

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The result was Merge to St. Elmo's Fire (film). —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 09:39Z

Alec Newbary[edit]

Alec Newbary (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

A character from St. Elmo's Fire (film). The entire article consists of plot details from the movie involving the character. No outside references or real-world context for the character is provided, and as per the recommendations in WP:FICT. Article should be either redirected to St. Elmo's Fire (film) in the characters section or deleted. Note that the character section there does already have one paragraph descriptions of each major character, including this one. Will reconsider my recommendation if some independent published sources talking about this specific character can be provided to demonstrate that an encyclopedic treatment of the character requires its own subarticle. Dugwiki 20:44, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. I did do a first-glance web search to see if I could find such sources, but I only found a handful of URLS and nothing from a reliable publisher. Dugwiki 20:47, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 09:40Z

Werner Schumann[edit]

Werner Schumann (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
Werner schumann (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (added by closing admin)
File:Wernerschumann.jpg (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) (added by closing admin)

Is he notable? Your thoughts please. Abstain Computerjoe's talk 20:55, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Keep. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 09:42Z

Boi (gender)[edit]

Boi (gender) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
Unreferenced, trivial, and deeply unencyclopedic. Stifle (talk) 20:58, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Misspelling becomes neologism becomes unfortunate Avril Lavigne song becomes unfortunate, unreferenced, unencyclopedic article. --S0uj1r0 21:09, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • As for the title, Boi is currently a disambiguation page so there needs to be some additianl word or phrase in the title of this article. "Gender" seems like a reasonable choice since it does relate to gender identity and presentation. If someone has a better suggestion, please offer it. Otto4711 00:16, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Perhaps a rename to Boi (gender identity)? --Dennisthe2 00:18, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • As far as I'm concerned, that works. =^^= --Dennisthe2 20:53, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was NO CONSENSUS TO DELETE. Herostratus 04:03, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

IME process metallurgy and metal recycling[edit]

IME process metallurgy and metal recycling (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Contested prod with the reason 'Prod contested; Notable to me; Its in Germany! how can you think its Not notable?'. Article is on a non notable university faculty and course guide. Wikipedia is not a surrogate prospectus. Nuttah68 21:13, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Sherwood, Arkansas. - Bobet 12:52, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sherwood Voice[edit]

Small county newspaper, doesn't meet notability requirements. Cat-five - talk 21:44, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Keep. IrishGuy talk 22:07, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Telewest[edit]

Telewest (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
Comment: Not really the best example IMHO. The equivalent would be that we had two separate articles when someone changed their namePit-yacker 16:33, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
They didn't just change their name; it's complicated. Melchoir 20:12, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Changing their name is more accurate than saying that Telewest "died". AFAICT Telewest took over NTL, changed its name to NTL and then changed its name to Virgin Media. Perhaps on that basis this article should be at NTL? Pit-yacker 22:28, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Then why have Ntl and Virgin.net been deleted

Having separate articles isnt silly. Having a ((main|Telewest#History)) in NTL is though. IMHO it makes for very poor flow with the article branching off into halfway through a separate article and then coming back for the rest of the section. If you want to break up the Virgin Media article, I would reccomend having whole sections eg an article History of Virgin Media. Pit-yacker 22:28, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That makes sense to me. Melchoir 23:27, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Difference is, AFAICT the Compaq brand is still in use. Pit-yacker 23:17, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: My point entirely. Shouldn't all the history be removed from it. Shouldn't the Compaq Article be the equivalent of "Was big, not now. Just a brand name" ? - X201 12:43, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 09:43Z

Johnny Boston[edit]

Johnny Boston (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Incorrectly MfD'd by an IP user, moved to the correct place, which is here. Procedural nom, no vote. →EdGl 21:50, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Deleted by Irishguy. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 09:43Z

The Glare of Day[edit]

The Glare of Day (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

no notability, all the info was added by one user and taken right out of the band's personal page Chevinki 21:50, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 09:43Z

Avercromby[edit]

Avercromby (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Apparently a hoax. Unable to find any trace of Mr. Freezy and the argonauts at the British Library (search for "freezy argonauts"). Was ((prod))'d, removed. Angus McLellan (Talk) 21:58, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was DELETE. The strength of argument from Bobet trumps the (small) numbers. No one refuted his argument. Herostratus 03:54, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Justinlees Inn[edit]

Justinlees Inn (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable pub. -- RHaworth 22:10, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Speaking as a Brit, 139 years old does not make a pub notable - see Notable British public houses. -- RHaworth 08:04, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete non-notable product with no references. IrishGuy talk 22:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Banks Keyboard[edit]

Banks Keyboard (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Prod contested by an ip address with no reason given. Article on a keyboard that offers no claim to notability, no sources and as the product is still under development is very likely original research. Nuttah68 22:15, 7 March 2007 (UTC) Nuttah68 22:15, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. - Bobet 12:40, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sociology of human consciousness and meta-power[edit]

Sociology of human consciousness (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
Meta-power (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Essentially these are academic papers rather than encyclopedia articles. Original research. -- RHaworth 22:30, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. —Quarl (talk) 2007-03-11 09:44Z

Seth Greenstein[edit]

Seth Greenstein (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)
Seth greenstein (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (added by closing admin)

This page is a hoax as player never existed and does not show up in any official list for players on the teams he is listed to play for. The prod has been removed a few times. Djsasso 22:44, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedily deleted. Vanity created by serial disruption account, now indef-blocked. Grandmasterka 23:09, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Shomari[edit]

Shomari (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Looks like a vanity page to me - the claim about being the winner of American Idol is also patently false. Kurt Shaped Box 22:48, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was: Speedily deleted and redirected to L0phtCrack - incoherent, spam. - Mike Rosoft 18:03, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

LC 5[edit]

LC 5 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

This article appears to be a hoax. There certainly are not any sources. Cfrydj 23:00, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Per "See Also" in that page, suggest it just be redirected to L0phtCrack and left at that. 68.39.174.238 23:26, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Delete non-notable person. IrishGuy talk 22:03, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

David_Beaudoin[edit]

David_Beaudoin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Not notable. Same as a page on fr.wikipedia.org for the same person. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DaveB1980 (talk • contribs)

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The result was keep. - Bobet 12:30, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Gray tuesday[edit]

Gray tuesday (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

The name of this event was made up by the creator of the article and does not appear in any official form anywhere else. -- Mufka (user) (talk) (contribs) 23:21, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy deletion; non-admin closing of orphaned AFD per WP:DPR.--TBCΦtalk? 09:01, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lacuna, LLC[edit]

Lacuna, LLC (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Promo of nonnotable. A miniscule blip on 'net `'mikka 23:35, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Veinor (talk to me) 22:56, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Enchanted Nemesis[edit]

Enchanted Nemesis (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Non-notable web movie. The article by what appears to be a single-purpose account reads like advertising or promotion, largely consisting of unsubstantiated unverified claims.

I am also nominating the following related page, which is essentially the same article:

The Enchanted Nemesis (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) Agent 86 23:36, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please provide sources that meet WP:RS and substanciate the claims made above. --Daniel J. Leivick 16:42, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Google results are also stacked against this one for notability.. consisting mainly of self promotion and distribution, there's a few "reviews" (minor conversation) among the results but no mention or review by mainstream sources. If this really was a notable topic one would think that there would be significant propagation beyond 70 unique hits over the past half decade. The claims of pioneering the field of internet movie features are also unsubstantiated to down right false. I'd say delete but I'm not logged in, although I'm sure due process will take it's course. Also, I smell like poo. 74.97.109.162

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The result was Delete. Jersey Devil 02:15, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Summit Systems API[edit]

Summit Systems API (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

Totally incoherent, unencyclopedic, and non-notable. The presence of context is questionable. N Shar (talk • contribs) 23:49, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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  1. ^ Halle Berry - Halle Berry Bio
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