I think that the "RPG" label is diluted enough as it is, and it is only spreading the confusion to spread the label across more and more game genres that, while containing some of the same elements as individual games in the RPG genre, nevertheless do not contain any actual role playing. It's fine to continue to use this term if that's what people know it as, but we should merge it under a more appropriate genre (i.e., turn-based tactics) that is a more accurate and less confusing classification. --The Yar 16:48, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
TRPG is quite distinct a genre from RPG, and also distinct enough to be kept as separate from the turn-based tactics article. However, the article is a bit confused and claims many games that are not TRPGs. T/S RPGs are a sepecialised subgenre to turn-based tactics games basically populated (and defined) by being battle-focused, relatively small-scoped adaptations of popular japanese RPG franshises. Miqademus 16:37, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
I have never heard the term "tactical RPG" used outside of this article, only "strategy RPG". Just look at the hits for each term on Google:
"strategy rpg"- 19,200,000
"tactical rpg"- 3,320,000
"Strategy RPG" is by far the more oft-used term. So what's going on here? Phediuk 20:12, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Not taking sides whether to rename the page or not, but regardless of which name is made "real" a corresponding redirect should be created. Both names "exist" and refer to basically the same game. If a distinction is to be made it really should be as sections within the same article. Also, T/S RPGs are a sepecialised subgenre to turn-based tactics games basically populated (and defined) by being battle-focused, relatively small-scoped adaptations of popular japanese RPG franshises. Miqademus 16:37, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
I added a few additional links to PC tactics games, as I thought the platform was a bit under-represented. -SharkD 19:12, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Would Lords of Chaos (video game) be an example of this genre?--Malcohol 12:16, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
There has been a push to try and develop multiplayer games of this genre, and section on that would be nice.
I believe some of the comparisons made with turn-based strategy are invalid. Namely, the second and third comparisons. The reason I state this is because, in some T/RPGs, characters are allocated an Action Point pool which can be expended on any number of actions as long as the total points do not exceed the limit. Also, in some T/RPGs, turns are not split into clearly demarcated "enemy" and "player" phases. Rather, each character proceeds with its turn based on a separate "initiative" score, like in D&D. -SharkD 22:05, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm wondering if phase-based ("WeGo") tactics games such as Laser Squad Nemesis and Combat Mission should also be listed. Personally, I think they shouldn't be; but, they have nowhere else to go. -SharkD 09:29, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
famicom wars came before fire emblem and isn't this game an srpg -Unsigned
There is no mention of one of the real proginators of TRPG's, Wizards Crown, its this combat system that was the precursor to the Gold Box games combat engines. Wizards Crown came out in 1986, predating the 1990 nintendo release, and is vastly more tactical than Ultima III. Yakumo (talk) 14:44, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
SRPGs/TRPGs are *not* just games with grid-based combat and RPG-style characters. They are any kind of war simulation game with RPG elements. Therefore games like Ogre Battle, which was marketed as a "Simulation/RPG" in Japan are included in the genre even though they use realtime gameplay.
I think that Dofus is a notable game, being that it is the only MMOTRPG that I know of. However, I haven't personally played it long enough to determine whether it is notable for other reasons, as well. SharkD 22:18, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
I would like to disagree on the fact that Dofus IS a noticeable game. 2 million players beg to differ with your opinions, and I also need to highlight that there is no other tactical (turn-based) game out there that is browser based and an MMORPG in its own right at the same time. And if you can find another game tht is "MANGA"-based please let me know.
I would like to ask for permission to re-add Dofus to its list, but I will not push the matter. After all I am a simple player of Dofus, not the owner or the maker or an employee of Ankama Studios.
An independent survey has been made by MMORPG.com (after reading behaviour guidleines in wikia I will not post the link to the survey here) but Dofus is one of the few games whose player average age is not under 25. --Cordially, Abelius 18:08, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
And whoever has never heard of the term "tactical RPG", makes me think he or she lives in a cocoon, or on St. Helena Island... --Cordially, Abelius 18:14, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I think that the points raised in the comparisons sections are shady at best. I'm sure it would not be too hard to find exceptions for nearly every point. SharkD 10:05, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I think it is not and I have removed it from here. Fell free to argue.--Andrei Knight 22:23, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
I recently added the Avernum and Geneforge series to Category:Tactical role-playing games and was wondering if they, as well as the first two games in the Fallout series, should be removed. I'm torn as to whether they are or are not "tactical" enough. SharkD 03:56, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Battle for Wesnoth should be removed, as it is very much a turn based strategy game (with no added tactical layer, like in X-COM or similar games), and the article provided as proof is on a random download site (not the developers site, which states it is a "turn-based tactical strategy", as does our own article) A1s (talk) 22:31, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
To replace the old comparisons section, maybe we can think of some new, key points that can be used as guidelines when defining the genre. Some ideas that come to mind:
I can already imagine games that would break these rules and still fit my conception of what a T/RPG is. ToEE, for instance, has no terrain modifiers; yet, it is very tactical in every other respect. SharkD 04:14, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
We need a short section on Gold Box games in the PC games section. SharkD 18:31, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure where this went as it's appropriate for the article, but I added a short description that can be elaborated upon if anyone so chooses. 72.226.25.122 (talk) 19:47, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
I resurrected the old turn-based tactics page. It now links to here and to the tactical wargame page. We'll now have to debate whether a lot of these games fit in this article, or the tactical wargame article. SharkD 02:57, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Some mention of Metal Gear Acid series should be made. They use an interesting system whereby you gain, over time, collectible cards which improve your character's stats. The series also features tactical gameplay. SharkD 03:27, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
Why does this article have so much non-free images? I commons we have a lot of Video game screenshots which should be used first. Free games such as The Battle for Wesnoth are also preferable. --SMP - talk (en) - talk (ca) 10:57, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Many times in the article, the term "CRPG" is used without explanation. Either make it clear that CRPG and TRPG are synonymous in that context, or change the wording accordingly...or at least specify where you mean Console or Computer RPG. As a gamer who doesn't know the sub-genres of RPGs, I was quite confused. yuor faec (talk) 04:52, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
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Question: Why does this seem like the gene was started in Japan when I read this page? In the PC section it acts as if the US games of this type were not fantasy based, then lists many non-fantasy ones, while ignoring many of the so-called "classics". Anyone who played\imported games in the late 80s should remember the popularity ofmany PC games over in Japan. Pony Canyon for example ported Pool of Radiance to famicom, and it's combat's gameplay is that of a tactical RPG. And the first Neverwinter Nights (The SSI\AOL one) is the first graphical MMORPG, so that would also make it the first online tactical one. Seems very NPOV to me right now without some explaining. 76.181.3.165 (talk) 17:41, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
All of this talk is ridiculous. Grid-based combat does not define a TRPG, or maybe it does, but it does not define an SRPG, which is the genre that was started in Japan. All an SRPG is, is a war simulation game with RPG elements. SSI's AD&D based games like Pool of Radiance are obviously not war simulation games. PC War games that predate SRPGs are not SRPGs because they lack RPG elements (such as having fixed units that can gain experience through repeated combat). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.166.255.60 (talk) 17:48, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
I tried out Vantage Master Online today. It is not an MMORPG! The only way to play online is via a direct internet connection. It's this typical "one player hosts and the other player entersthe IP address" thing. I will change that MMORPG to something else, but I'm not sure where I should place it. It's a game like Pox Nora or Battle for Wesnoth. Sorry, I don't know much about tactical RPGs. 85.127.114.209 (talk) 14:48, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
X-com is an T-RPG. My old PC gamer magazines list X-com as a turn based strategy game. This is the first time i've heard X-com listed as a TRPG. You do not play any "roles here" You manage an organization, command troops and its resources. Its combat system is turn based strategy game. Just because infantry have stats or improve does not make it an RPG. The game may have an RPG elements but its core is a strategy game. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.104.43.103 (talk) 07:15, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
I think the red links should be re-added. The games themselves certainly meet notability requirements, and red links encourage growth of the wiki. SharkD (talk) 02:45, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
There're some major issues in this article that need addressing and I was wondering if anyone wanted to help out : ) ?EVAUNIT神の人間の殺害者 19:35, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm sort of stumped to do with it at the moment, but I think it should be merged with the history section for now (makes sense right?). Any objections? ?EVAUNIT神になった人間 20:29, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
I've never read so much nonsense japan-centric garbage. ALmost every video game related article on wikipedia is a joke that looks like it was written quite jingoistically, completely ignoring that japanese games followed and imitated western games in all RPGS, tactical and otherwise.13:43, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
This article is pretty WTF. SRPG/TRPG just seems to me to be Japanese turn based tactics games but with a ton of animes thrown in. I've never heard the term T/SRPG used for games like X-Com, Silent Storm, Fallout Tactics or Battle for Wesnoth. And then Steel Panthers gets called into it as well somehow, along with Squad Leader and just what the hell? There's tons of table top war games with experience and units that can be promoted to veteran class, giving them increased stats, are they now SRPGs too? What a load of nonsense. Wikipedia is full of the animes and even our beloved video games will be infected by the curse. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.30.248 (talk) 20:39, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
"Tactical RPG" and "Wargame with RPG elements" are different genres, although commonly misinterpreted as one. TRPG could be a RPG composed of tactical and RP "screens"/"maps" - Shining Force/Just Breed. Also any RPG where there's an option to move the camera independently from characters, and to move characters separately (a "tactical element"), could count as TRPG if the tactical element is deep enough. Baldur's Gate and Dragon Age can be counted as tactics-enabled RPG (between RPG and TRPG). in RPG games, there are two kinds of RPG characters: "Avatar" and "Companion". "Companions" are full RPG characters, and sometimes the only difference between them and "Avatars" is that they join the Avatar. JRPG's rarely featured "avatars", even character naming was not very common. In Spellforce, some territories are played as RTS, while others are played as Real-Time Tactics. Quality of the overworld may vary from mere "waypoints" in Baldur's Gate, to a full grid with movement representation (Fallout). some large-scale TBS's may have RPG characters (Warlords II, Master of Magic, Age of Wonders). Yura87 (talk) 18:54, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
In the 8-bit section, the game Destiny of an Emperor by Capcom is a straight-up RPG rather than an SRPG. The author was thinking of the similarly themed but functionally radically different Romance of the Three Kingdoms by Koei. The reference cited is where the mistake happens, so while the author was ignorant in not making this correction himself, it's ultimately the fault of his source. AutomatonOmega (talk) 12:01, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
Might want to mention Laser Squad, a precursor to X-COM in this section. SharkD Talk 22:27, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
Examples:
While some may say a RPG made of tactical scenarios may actually belong to strategic games, it is still a RPG - as ionomic system/inventory. If free roaming is removed and the levels are sequential (even with a branching storyline), the game is a "Strategy with RPG elements".
All of the above is applicable to both turn-based and real-time strategical/tactical games. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.181.9.98 (talk) 15:22, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
TRPG and SRPG seems to be mostly a JRPG convention and most of the titles listed in the PC and blurred genre sections are not either, especially dumb are mentions of games like Steel Panthers, there are tons of wargames that have XP and unit progression, are we going to list every single one of them? I've never heard games like X-Com or Jagged Alliance referred to as Tactical RPGS, they are strategy games with slight RPG aspects, plenty of game genres have RPG aspects and yet they are not classified in these weird Japanese gaming categories. Are EA Sports and 2K sports games with career modes now to be called SportsRPG? No they're still sports games and don't need some weird new genre. And what the hell are classic PC RPG games doing in here? Stuff like Ultima have always been considered just hard core classic RPGS. This article is 90% useless garbage and needs to be sorted out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.30.220 (talk) 17:35, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
Role-playing strategy games are often described as massive multi-player role playing games which incorporate strategic elements, however the subtle difference between mmorpgs and mmogs are often over-looked. The Phantasy Star Online (2000) series was the first to deviate from its elements of role-playing with mini-games and recreational activities such as soccer and dozens of downloadable challenges to even a battle mode. However close it may be to an role-playing strategy game it still incorporates the objective mode as the primary method and story to the gameplay and most consider it to be an mmorpg rather than an mmog. Games such as Happy Wars (2012) are very similar, they have a turn base platform and quests with objectives. Although they are very reminiscent of an RPG game in story mode, the objective mode has no exploration elements and its quests are too short eg they have hit-and-run tactics in combining functions of action rpgs with real-time strategy games. These thin difference barriers in game play at times are able to change the genre completely, due to the overwhelming way the game feels, but really due to the fact that the major function of the game plays as a tactical rpg. Most online games are considered mmogs because they have strategic elements to the gameplay such as capture the base, or a turn-based platform as opposed to exploration as a major aspect of the developer's game. --Niemti (talk) 18:53, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
FT:U (mis-labeled a 'Tactical Shooter', but correctly a T/SRPG) is a notable Western game in the 6th/7th generation gap the article denotes between Eastern developed Sakura Wars and Valkyria Chronicles, where the introduction of action-game-like elements to an otherwise strict T/SRPG formula was was produced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.195.85.153 (talk) 12:27, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
"Western tactical RPGs are mostly produced for PC and few in console platform, however it was less popular. Most western developers argue it still belongs in other genres. The term also was unwidely use for some western tactical RPGs video game, mostly they are labelled as strategy game."
Can this be rewritten in English? Is it even worth keeping? SharkD Talk 01:21, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
I would like to refer User: SharkD to the Wikipedia page Wikipedia:Staying cool when the editing gets hot, specifically item number 7: "Try to avoid deleting things as a matter of principle. When you amend and edit, bear in mind that others may find something useful in what you remove." Many people consider these game TRPGs. I don't know why you think CRPG and TRPG are necessarily separate considering CRPG is a broad category. Either way I provided citations from reputable sources. Please stop deleting my entire edit just because you disagree. I did see at least one of the games could not be found to be listed as TRP on a credible source, but the rest are (I will delete that ONE). You seem to be harping on my original source. If it is that important for you to separate CRPG and TRPG, we can get rid of that article but the games stand, with credible citations to prove them.. MrGWillickers (talk) 19:13, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
"Also, Wasteland 2 [1], Invisible, Inc.,[2] The Dark Eye: Blackguards [3] and Divinity: Original Sin[4] are all Tactical RPGs with successful releases in 2014. Largely due to these games 2014 has been called "The cRPG Renaissance" [5]."
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@87.210.7.191: I think Ultima 3 is relevant to the article. And I have a source that proves it. Please provide some evidence that it isn't. SharkD Talk 00:39, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
I want to add this awesome game to the "Genre Blurring" section, but no English site has reviewed it yet! Arrrgghh! SharkD Talk 04:25, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
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