![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Do the contents of this article belong somewhere else?
I changed the Hebrew word to display correctly on my browser (that is, right to left). Someone else has changed it back, with the comment that they also are changing it to read from right to left. Does this mean that different browsers display it in different directions? If so, we would be better to get rid of it, since it will just be misleading to anyone whose browser shows it the wrong way round. --Zundark, 2001 Sep 20
In Mozilla 0.9.4, which as far as I know is the most standards-compliant browser currently available, the string of characters encoded by יהוה gets automatically reversed and displayed from right to left. I assume that this is because Mozilla "knows" that Hebrew is read in this direction. The same thing happens in Internet Explorer 5.0, the only other browser I currently have access to. Whoever's seeing this text rendered left-to-right instead, what browser are you using? -BD
Internet Explorer 4.01 doesn't reverse them. Nor does Netscape 6.01. I think we should use a GIF (or PNG) if we really want to show the tetragrammaton, then we can be sure that everyone is seeing it correctly. --Zundark, 2001 Sep 20
On the other hand, the note about reading direction "(Note that Hebrew is written from right to left, rather than left to right as in English)" doesn't specify which direction the letters are actually being displayed in on the page, so the reader can take a moment to figure it out for himself. The "H" character is the one there are two instances of, once that's noticed it's pretty clear which way the word is being written. :) Personally I'd rather stick to the HTML standard than fool around with images for lettering, since standard compliance by browsers should increase with time, but I'm not terribly concerned one way or the other. - BD
You might find this tag useful: - Jan 1, 05
Much of this article is standard material and doesn't need more external documentation. But I would welcome sources for the Shaddai city theory and the possible original meaning of El. Both of these are new to me (or at least I don't remember running into them before) and should probably be cited as particular POV theories. jallan 21:53, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)
The singular form of elohim is only used in "word-pair" form; where it indicates god of + the thing after it, thus elohei is only used and should be listed.
Please see NYTimes Science Section, first. Sept 28th 2004, discovery of Priestly Blessing in Silver Amulets, with God's name in ancient script
Shouldn't
Be actually
elpincha 22:14, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
The quotation from the Gospel of John in the "Hashem" section seems utterly out of place, given that John was written in Greek, and probably by a Gentile. My understanding is that the use of "logos" ("the word") is considered to be a Gnostic influence, not a reference to anything in Jewish thought.
Zappaz, these are unrelated concepts. Hashem or Hadavar are not even used in the Talmud, they were introduced by the Medieval Rabbis. To claim that the name Hadavar has any bearing on the New Testament is minimally an anachronism and maximally a distortion. JFW | T@lk 01:09, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Zappaz, that's a translation choice a modern Christian translator made. I'm not sure why that specific choice by that specific translator is "important". Jayjg | Talk 04:17, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Am I the only one who feels deeply uncomfortable that the article now includes the Hebrew tetragrammaton? This is a sacred word for Jews and should not be produced or reproduced so casually. Slrubenstein 19:04, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)
moved from User_talk:Gary_D)--Zappaz 00:29, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Hello Gary, Happy New Year!
I am putting my knowledge of Hebrew and Aramaic to good work in expanding the The names of God in Judaism article. Could you take a look and give me some pointers on how to improve the article? I would like to submit it as a candidate for featured article. Your help will be appreciated. --Zappaz 20:54, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Naming conventions#Avoid the definite article ("the") and the indefinite article ("a"/"an") at the beginning of the page name. Shouldn't this page be moved to Names of God in Judaism? Dbenbenn 20:10, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Someone should add the bit about why it is sometimes written G-d or L-rd in english. "G-d" redirects here. I couldn't find a relvanat place to add it. Also, I don't remember how to sign things.
I came to this article from the peer review page. I did a whole lot of little tidying jobs on the article, and I hope that the contributors here are happy with what I've done. It is clear that there have been a few different authors of the article text, and I've tried to smooth out the differences in style. I've removed referrences to the Old Testament as it seems more NPOV to use Hebrew Bible in all but purely Christian contexts. There is quite a bit of work that still needs done on tidying the article. Gareth Hughes 23:53, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I've been through the article again. Considering the conversations here about the Tetragrammaton, I've changed the multiple instances of YHVH and Yhwh to YHWH, and acknowledged YHVH as an alternative. I've tried to deal with a few grammatical issues, and I've changed a couple of instances where 'they' is used to refer to Jews (non-inclusive POV). I've straightened out the list of lesser used names so that they all follow a similar format now. I've also linked references to biblical books to their relevant articles. I hope all of that is okay, and that the article is a more unified read. Gareth Hughes 16:04, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Just to CC my comment on the FAC here - I really like this article (it's one of my favorites on Wikipedia, and I don't say that lightly). I think it would benefit *greatly* from having someone record themselves saying these Hebrew names and upload them (ogg format) for use in the article. →Raul654 04:01, Feb 12, 2005 (UTC)
Nadav did some wonderful work. He recorded these ogg files, which need to be added to their relavant sections →Raul654 14:47, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC)
I have created a smaller version of the ((listen)) template (see it in action on the YHVW ogg file). Raul, let me know what you think. If OK, I will replace all the other opnes. --Zappaz 23:02, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
My College Hebrew classes were long ago (before the birth of my grandchildrens' parents) so recollection may be faulty - I don't read it anymore. I was taught that Adonai is in the (archaic) Dual Number (as seen in the Hebrew name for Egypt: Mizraim) and that Elohim is a masculine plural of a feminine root Eloah (which becomes plural Eloth if gender is retained.) I'll skip the metaphysics of that. (Here, at least) Can someone please confirm or refute my memory? If correct, should this be placed in the article, or linked elsewhere? oreb 11:48, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
No offence, but this article just doesn't seem to be of Featured Article quality yet. It's often repetitive and even contradictory. In case I don't have time to fix these issues, let me try to be concrete:
××× I agree that this article needs tightening up, editing, here and there. There is another, completely redundant, duplication, i.e. "Seven names of God" and "The tradition of seven divine names". These two sections, both of which are also very, very short, need to be merged. Unfortunately, I don´t yet know enough about the practicalities of editing Wikipedia, so I can´t do it until I´ve worked out how to actually go about it. Borsey379 22:24, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
[quote]Despite the -im ending common to many plural nouns in Hebrew, the word Elohim, when referring to God, is grammatically singular, and regularly takes a singular verb in the Hebrew Bible[/quote]
This is an opinion. The use of 'Elohim' in Gen 1 can also be understood as being a reference to "The Gods", or "The Spirits". Thus, the gods created the races of man (each in his own image and likeness), and after this background Gen 2 discusses the activities of that elohim who was the tribal deity (YHWH elohim).
However, the article is specifically about in Juadism, so perhaps this need not be pointed out. Ie: it's an opinion, but the opinion of modern Judaism.
I have lso read recently a rather, umm, interesting view of the "taking gods name in vain" commandment. By that view the commandment proscribed priestcraft and religion in general, this being a holdover from their time as slaves in Egypt.
Pmurray bigpond.com 03:54, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The article needs to include a discussion of the understanding of the -im plural form as abstraction. There are several examples of this in Hebrew: e.g. chayah = animal, ordinary plural chayot = animals, but plural form with -im chayyim = life. betulah = virgin, betulot = (female) virgins but betulim = virginity, mayah = a body of water, mayyim = water in general. Similarly elohim can be understood to mean divinity from elohah denoting a god. Similarly with the plural form Adonai Kuratowski's Ghost 18:46, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
I can't see the Y of the YHVH on the priestly benediction picture. Does anyone else see it? To me it appears to show Heh (possibly Samech?) Vav Heh. Is it inferred the Yud was once there or is it just very faint? --Cypherx 05:19, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Oh, It is there. just that the first letter (yud) can hardly be seen. See the bigger image http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tetragrammaton_benediction.png --Zappaz 14:44, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Something needs to be said about the possible connection between Shadai and the word shadayim that means breasts and the interpretation that it thus means something similar to English "bountiful". Kuratowski's Ghost 4 July 2005 23:32 (UTC)
This is a great article, BTW. I see Hashem has two separate sections. I'm loathe to change it myself so as not to louse up a well crafted page, but maybe somebody who's more familiar with the history of the page could investigate? Gzuckier 15:43, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
THe ogg format is inefficient and pointless. No one (except advanced computer users) use it.
I recommend converting all the .ogg files to .mp3 as this will make the files universally listenable.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.42.245.54 (talk • contribs) .
The caption currently reads "...The Tetragrammaton in paleo-Hebrew can be clearly seen five times in this portion." I'm no scholar, so I didn't change it, but I count 6 of what may be the Tetragrammaton. On the 7 lines shown, (top=1, bottom = 7): line 2: twice line 5: once line 6: twice line 7: once?
Anyone who can actually read Hebrew, feel free to implement this change (if I'm actually correct).Mayor Of France 01:37, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
Definitely six. Eliyak 04:05, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
What is the source for the section on Had'var/Hadavar? I have never heard of that term used as a name of God by anyone, nor have I seen it in any traditional texts. --DLandTALK 00:03, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Señor DLand, I think that the name "HaDavar" might be the source for writing God's name as 'ד, although I have never heard it used, so it may be obsolete. Also, I find that non-Jews are veery interested in Jews writing "G-d" instead of "God," so I think you should put that back too. Eliyak 04:21, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
In which case it should be translated into english as JOB. The book of JOB dealt with people that used the lords name, or more pressisly a name that sounded like the word "I Am", for their own benifit. Many names have many similairities, I have heard the middle easterners pronounce john similairly to Ja-O-Va{which incidently sylibalisticly means son of the light of the moon son of light, JOB that is]. So why don't people spell YHVW as JOB? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.14.129.251 (talk • contribs) 03:01, 17 May 2007.
Support given this is the article to inform on the subject--mrg3105 (comms) ♠♥♦♣ 23:32, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia should adopt a uniform Hebrew transliteration. I don't particularly care which one, but some of the translits on this page are different (elohe) for constructive plural gods? Also, it's hard to put my finger on, but for an article on Judaism, this article has a goyish tone to it.--71.93.234.180 (talk) 04:58, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
not knowing s much s I would like about this religion I ask: Isn't the existence of this article some kind of profanity in the judaism? Aren't some names of god (and the same applyis to islamism) just too sacred to be teached to those who are not initiated, or, even worst, to any atheist? --Alexandre Van de Sande 17:48, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)
טז ונקב שם יהוה מות יומת רגום ירגמו בו כל העדה כגר כאזרח--בנקבו שם יומת
וְנֹקֵ֤ב שֵׁם־יְהוָה֙ מֹ֣ות יוּמָ֔ת רָגֹ֥ום יִרְגְּמוּ־בֹ֖ו כָּל־הָעֵדָ֑ה כַּגֵּר֙ כָּֽאֶזְרָ֔ח בְּנָקְבֹו־שֵׁ֖ם יוּמָֽת׃
ויקרא 24:16
"He who blasphemes the name of Yahweh, he shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall certainly stone him: the foreigner as well as the native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death." Lev 24:16;
Cf: Lev 24:11 for Moses Ruling capital punishment sentence on a son of an Egyptian father and Israelite mother; Outside the camp, Witnesses lay hands on the blasphemer's head, and let the congregation stone him.
[User:bwildasi] Leviticus 24:16 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bwildasi (talk • contribs) 20:04, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
××× I think this is a truth with modification. I have in my possession a laser copy of a Victorian Mizrach (created 1870 - 1880 by the well-known German-Jewish graphic artist Henry Schile, who emigrated to the U.S.A.) where the sacred name of God,YHVH, is written in Hebrew characters immediately below the Magen David. I shall try to cut and paste it, so all of you can see what I mean. Also, according to one of the Rabbis on Aish.com, it is quite acceptable to write God, rather than G-d, because this word/name is English, not Hebrew, and it is therefore not included in the prohibition. Borsey379 20:11, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Learning and teaching are important in Judaism so an article like this, which serves to inform, would be smiled upon.
So, are we just saying now that Judaism has always been monothistic? Even though this flies in the face of evidence? So, these are all different names of the same god? Really? How convenient? When did that become so? What evidence do we have of that? Is it a normal thing to have several names for the same thing?
I'd like to return to the point that was made in one of the previous posts. Is this Wiki entry suggesting that for example "El" is simply another name for the monotheistic "God" of contemporary Judaism? If it is I would like to see how this conclusion was drawn, as I have read a significant amount of information to the contrary. Even in the Old Testament we there are a number of references to other gods that were honored by the different tribes of Israel. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.224.42.6 (talk)
××× I would like to make the highly relevant point that Judaism is a very OLD religion, which has been in existence for some 4.000 years, and IT HAS EVOLVED and CHANGED considerably with the passage of time! Furthermore, it is STILL evolving and changing! The Torah was written over a very long period of time, and Judaism changed in that span of time. It is rather a sweeping generalization, really, to talk about "Judaism", as though it is one, single, unified faith, when the truth is, that there are a great many variant forms of Judaism. What is acceptable to the Reform Jews, or the English Progressive Jews, would perhaps not be acceptable to, say, the Hasidim, or even to the Conservative branch of Judaism. And, please, stop referring to it as the "Old Testamente"! In terms of Judaism, it is called the Torah! Borsey379 20:26, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
I am rather new to this whole wiki scene but happened to happily stumble across this discussion and would like to throw in my 2 cents on the subject of Judaism's alleged polytheistic origins. It seems to me that being born from dessert dwelling semi nomadic people, Judaism was probably originally a conglomeration of previous religions and tribal beliefs that were realized to be the work of one creator and merely different manifestations of the almighty. Much along the same lines as Hindu's view their myriad of gods as different transmogrifications of the god head. So i don't know if it is fair to claim the origins as polytheistic or to better to view their original concept of the creator as polythalamous. Of course this is all conjecture on my part, the true beginnings seem to be lost to forgotten history. (I haven't learned yet to put my electronic signature to documents but my wiki moniker is svaangus) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.66.207.156 (talk) 03:10, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
The most complete record of whether the Jews were polytheistic or monotheistic is the Bible itself.
Exodus 20:2-5 “I am Jehovah your God, who have brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slaves. 3 You must not have any other gods against my face. 4 “You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or that is on the earth underneath or that is in the waters under the earth. 5 You must not bow down to them nor be induced to serve them, because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion...
The Jews at times worshipped the gods of the surrounding nations but this was never sanctioned as acceptable by either the Hebrew Scriptures or the Christian-Greek Scriptures. There are numerous acconts of reforms and cleansing of idol worship in the Hebrew Scriptures. This conflict between the unwavering monotheistic stance of the Law and the polytheisic influence of the surrounding cultures seems to have ended after the Jews were repatriated from Babylon c.530 b.c.e. True Abrahamic Judaism has always been monotheistic and that never changed. Many of the "names" listed are more like titles such as Lord, Judge and King. These titles were sometimes also given to other rulers and even gods. Who the titles refer to can be found in the context. For instance, Cyrus the Persian was called the "anointed one" (Isaiah 45:1) as was King Saul (2 Samuel 1:14), yet there was no doubt that neither of these was the promised messiah, also called the anointed one. To say that since some of the titles of God were used for other gods or people means the Jews were polytheistic is silly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.88.233.22 (talk) 14:38, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
What does "lower case" mean in Hebrew?! —Tamfang (talk) 15:33, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
Alleichem.. The prohibition of blasphemy, for which capital punishment is prescribed in Jewish law, refers only to the Tetragrammaton. Therefore, this is the Name of which is mpst integral to all others. Alleichem (talk) 14:03, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
I will delete the listen link for YHVW, as there are so many interpretations of how this should sound. To be fair to all sides we will have to create ogg files for every and each one of these interpretations. --Zappaz 16:35, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I added additional language with this audiofile noting that playing it would be strongly discouraged for most Jews. I may not find it appropriate to include but with a disclaimer I think that at least leaves it's playing up to individual discretion and decision, something I certainly won't impose on others. Gabriel--Gabrielwhitestone (talk) 02:40, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
Should we not replace God in the article with G-d (this link goes to the 'God' page)? Of course, it explains in the article that this is not necessary - but should we not follow the lead of, for example Religious Studies Textbooks, Encyclopaedias and other Books. --A.K.A.47 16:36, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
G-d is sometimes used in books so that should something happen to it the name of God will not be harmed. Since wikipedia isn't paper there is no problem here.
No, as it would destroy His name and thereby, defeat the point of writing "G-d" in the first place. XYaAsehShalomX 12:10, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Jews are only allowed to write G-d, without the o. WIkipedia is probably just respecting the Jews since this is an article about Judaism.
××× I would like to refer all of you who have written above re "G-d" to the aish.com web site, click on "Ask the Rabbi" and call up the question "Writing the name". It appears that according to modern Rabbinic consensus, "God" is not a holy name, or word, as it is not Hebrew. Furthermore, when we type something on a p.c., it is being neither created, nor erased, as it is all just electro-magnetic impulses, which are being repeatedly created and destroyed, many times per minute. Therefore, it is quite all right to type God, or any other name for God, on a computer. Anyway, do read the question and answer; it is all very interesting. Any of you who are non-Jews, if you are interested in Judaism, you will find a great deal of interest on that site (and on Chabad.org)! Borsey379 20:51, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
From an inclusionary perspective using G-d instead of writing it out with the "o" in the middle would be more appropriate in this article. This will then not offend anyone, particularly as this is an article about Judaism, even if written and edited by goyim as well as Jews (in case I don't think to check back here and someone later asks or reacts, goyim is not a word with any negativity inherent in it, it simply means non-Jew.) While it is true that "G-d" is not the four letter name of Hashem specifically prohibited to be pronounced (which by the way, is a "clause" in the Christian bible as well, given that Tanakh is 2/3 of the Christian bible), it is still generally not written out fully by any observant Jew or even those respectful of the observance of others. This is because it is generally used in reference (at least casually) to the prohibited name. This practice generally extends to electronic publishing and correspondence as well as print material, except printed material used for religious purposes which is expected to be treated with the appropriate care so as to ensure that the name of G-d is never profaned by being destroyed/deleted, etc. In part the reason for using G-d in electronic correspondence and on websites is because while the website itself, or the email, is electronic, it can be printed. Most sites that do spell out G-d (I won't here) have a specific disclaimer asking those that might print anything from the site to take this into account if they do so in order to prevent profaning the name G-d. Note that using the word god in a lower case sense is not in reference to HaShem and can be used in reference to any "god" and therefore can be written out without issue. --Gabrielwhitestone (talk) 02:55, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
Trying to print preview this pages causes Firefox to lock up. Is this some sort of encoding error? --CableModem^^ (talk) 13:48, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
I notice delays in using Firefox to display the preview on the screen, but haven't tried an actual printout.--Gabrielwhitestone (talk) 02:59, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
They are several problems which I have identified. The first being that of the mention of Jehovah. Why would we mention more about Jehovah, which is utterly disregarded as a philogical impossibility - over the more accurate Yahweh??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alleichem (talk • contribs) 10:43, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
I found this:
It is also found in the King James Bible, the American Standard Version, the Darby Bible, Green's Literal Translation also known as the LITV, Young's Literal Translation, the 1925 Italian Riveduta Luzzi version, the MKJV [1998], the New English Bible and the New World Translation. Rotherham's Emphasized Bible [1902], the New Jerusalem Bible, the World English Bible [in the Public Domain without copyright], the Amplified Bible [1987], the Holman Christian Standard Bible [2003], The Message (Bible) [2002], and the Bible in Basic English [1949/1964], among others, are examples of translations that use the form "Yahweh" to one extent or another.
I know for a fact, that the term Jehovah is not found in some of these Bible's. Someone is clearly trying to rub the reputation of jehovah on Yahweh, or else doesn't know the difference between the two. I'm deleting the above paragraph, until someone can accurately compile a list of the Bibles using Jehovah amd the ones using Yahweh. Alleichem (talk) 10:51, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't the section YHWH Tzevaot/Sabaoth be right after YHWH, as YHWH Tzevaot/Sabaoth is connected to YHWH? Also, Zebaot is referenced as one of the seven most important names of G-d for scribes to be careful with, yet there is no section discussing this name of G-d? That seems like a bit of an oversight, though even more disjoint, the section that appears in seems mostly repeated as the last section of the article (as of the writing of this comment) and those two sections should be combined. I have no idea how to create new sections or reorder sections so I can only post this suggestion for someone more wikipedia savvy. Thanks.--Gabrielwhitestone (talk) 03:54, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone know how the different names relate to the Sephiroth of Kabbalah? I know they do, I just don't know how... ThePeg (talk) 14:45, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
I'd like to hear the input of different contributors about this subject. Apparently, some Bibles such as the MJK Bible have a mention, and other Bibles that have nothing to do with the Tetragrammaton, yet under the Tetragrammaton section no Bible is mentioned that uses the Name Yahweh exclusively. For this reason I added the note of the SSBE, the most well-known Bible in the Sacred Name Movement which uses the Name Yahweh in the OT and NT.
It's important not to get carried away with the Jehovah Bibles, because it doesn't help. I thought that at least a mention of the SSBE was fitting, but the user Skywriter (Tim) does not agree. I'd like to hear other views about the section. See history page for details. Kiddish.K (talk) 18:54, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
I cannot see the ne necessity of the of the POV-section|date=February 2008 and the Copyedit|date=February 2008 warnings in the section on Hashem! Can they be removed. All that is written there is solid and uncontroversial information, and there do not seem to be any style problems. How or who can remove them? Benqish (talk) 14:47, 9 January 2009 (UTC) Benquish, I agree with you and can't find anything in the history either but we may be missing some history or understandable controversies may have spilled over. POV-wise it might work to lead by describing the practice "Many Jews . . . " and follow with an explanation of why? Would you be up for that approach? I'm hoping someone can provide reasons for the warnings. Davispeace (talk) 23:54, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
"To show the sacredness of the names of God, and as a means of showing respect and reverence for them, the scribes of sacred texts took pause before copying them, and used terms of reverence so as to keep the true name of God concealed."
Did they even know his true name? If not, this is POV conjecture. 75.118.170.35 (talk) 12:19, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
Here is a question and an answer. Who were the people that spoke to God? The only ones who ever knew His Name were the prophets. The rest were just hearsay. It should be a secret, to prevent people from using God's Name in vain. I believe there is creative power in speaking this Name and for us to know it would mean just that.
Hi, in the section entitled Elohim, the following text contains an extra closing bracket:
The Jewish grammarians call such plurals … plur. virium or virtutum; later grammarians call them plur. excellentiae, magnitudinis, or plur. maiestaticus. This last name may have been suggested by the we used by kings when speaking of themselves (compare 1 Maccabees 10:19 and 11:31); and the plural used by God in Genesis 1:26 and 11:7; Isaiah 6:8 has been incorrectly explained in this way) [Emphasis added]. It is, however, either communicative (including the attendant angels: so at all events in Isaiah 6:8 and Genesis 3:22), or according to others, an indication of the fullness of power and might implied. It is best explained as a plural of self-deliberation. The use of the plural as a form of respectful address is quite foreign to Hebrew.
I'm not sure if the closing bracket should be deleted or if there needs to be a corresponding opening bracket added. Could someone please correct this? Thanks. --— Jclu: talk-contribs 04:44, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
Does someone know the meaning of the Hebrew word Elohim used in Psalm 8:5?
"You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings and crowned him with glory and honor." (NIV tranlsation)
The New International Version English translation uses heavenly beings with a footnote denoting "Or than God". The New American Standard Bible English tranlsation uses God, as does the New Living Translation English translation with the following footnote: "Or Yet you made them only a little lower than the angels; Hebrew reads Yet you made him [i.e., man] a little lower than Elohim." Yet the King James Version English translation reads "a little lower than the angels".
As a Christian growing up in church, I grew accustomed to the KJV translation, and it wasn't until recently that I realized the usage of angels or heavenly beings was a translation choice. After reading Names of God in Judaism, I'm curious, now more than ever, about what the correct translation should be. To me, from a theological point of view, there's a lot of difference between man being made a little lower than the angels (or other heavenly beings) versus a little lower than God.
Thanks. — Jclu: talk-contribs 05:14, 19 February 2009 (UTC)