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Many say the decision to poison Kim's Cognac came after long consideration in the Hawaiian Pacific. The idea, derived by an American descendant of the Isle of Man, was completed in top secret fashion. The substance, known to cause symptoms of Alcohol Poisoning, could easily pass as such in a third-world Medical facility. Kim had been warned on numerous occasions; due to current World circumstance, the underhanded action had to be made to avoid War. the Minnesotan—Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.114.21.94 (talk) 07:04, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
What the hell are you talking about? Troublemaker1973 (talk) 13:17, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
How to poison a North Korean dictator. It was nowhere as easy as it sounds and was in the works since 2003. http://e.imagehost.org/0677/kim.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.114.21.94 (talk) 22:40, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Mk5384 (talk) 09:13, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
Dear leader Kim Jong il is the Dear dictator, dear killer — Preceding unsigned comment added by Valiumz (talk • contribs) 02:36, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
The Korean Wikipedia article on Kim gives his birth date one year later, Feb 25 1923. Which is correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Quelcrime (talk • contribs) 19:20, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
We should not be referring to Kin Jong Il as Kim! Kim is his last name. To clearly distinguish between him and his father we should use his first name or full name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.138.57.98 (talk) 14:27, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
The present article claims Mr Kim was born February 16, 1941, while his official biography (Kim Jong Il - Short History. Pyongyang: Foreign Languages Publishing House, 1998, p. 1), claims he was born one year later.
BBC News clame that state biographers wrote of his birth to have been 'foretold by a swallow, and heralded by the appearance of a double rainbow over the mountain and a new star in the heavens', however they do not give their source, and it is not written anywhere in Short History. I've left it in the article, but does anyone know of the original source?Timephoenix (talk) 03:19, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
It's not stated in any official source that I've found (I read the Short History as well, the article appears to make the claim that the story is in the book, most people simply browsing wouldn't look at the link) theres a lot of misinformation about North Korea, it's quite clearly totalitarian but some of the stuff is as exaggerated as what the DPRK says about the west. I think that we should remove that section of the article unless someone does find an official DPRK source-Ted Fox 16:09, 30 April 2008
He also created an internet community named FunnyJunk back in 2001 the full adress is http://www.funnyjunk.com/admin —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.91.172.95 (talk) 00:39, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
What sources were used on the Personal Life section of this article? T.Stokke 06:32, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't understand a part in the article. It goes, "a Russian emissary who traveled with Kim across Russia by train, told reporters that Kim had live lobsters air-lifted to the train every day which he ate with silver chopsticks - historically used in the Chinese Imperial Palace to detect poison". Do silver chopsticks actually detect poison or am I reading it wrong? --Thai H. Nguyen 22:25, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Today, Kim Jong Il spends most of his time watching Western movies and drinking expensive wine while ninety five percent of his country starves to death on the streets. Kim Jong Il controlls all of the information which enters his country, although its citizens are to oppressed by him to own televisions or radio's anyway. Meanwhile, Il tells his people that he is the greatest leader the world has ever seen, while he blames all of his countries problems and corruption on Western countries. His people believe him because they have no access to any information, as it is all controlled and censored by Jong Il to make him look great, and other countries to look evil. Thus, Jong Il is able to keep the popular support of his people by killing anyone who threatens his authority. Kim Jong-Il is the worlds most brutal dictator, is half insane, and the worst part is, his own people dont even know it, yet they continue to starve. Thes people are under the rule of an oppressive dictator who lacks basic political, economical and ethical knowledge to run a country. The people suffer because of him and don't realize it because their minds are built on the whims of Jong Il's society. It is sickening for the rest of the world to witness Jong Il's evil.
I agree with you. Also, you keep referencing this demon as "Il", its "Kim" and "Jong Il" is the name.
Cheers. Enlighten yourself. 67.212.40.244 (talk) 04:40, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
I heard Kim Jong-Il drinks his own pee. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.24.131.53 (talk) 08:29, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Early in March a whole section was removed by a vandal and never restored. Can the information be worked back in? Gazpacho 08:16, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
I've just restored it - i think that the other sections removed were re-organized afterwards - actually they were split in two sub-sections. Thanks for the alert.--JForget 21:26, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Mr Kim's itinerary was frequently altered for security reasons, he said, which probably saved his life. The owner of the mobile telephone found at the scene had been traced and questioned, according to the official, but it was unclear what had happened to him. It would not have been the first assassination attempt against Mr Kim, who succeeded his father Kim Il Sung as leader in 1994. At the end of the 1990s, a plan hatched by a number of Korean army generals was uncovered, and the conspirators arrested. After they were interrogated, the generals were executed in Pyongyang's 150,000-capacity May Day Stadium. Petrol was poured over them and set alight, burning them alive.
[1] --HanzoHattori 09:50, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Someone please correct the following (I'm not good at English):
"In 2002, Kim Jong-il's government admitted to having produced nuclear weapons since the 1994 agreement. Kim's regime argued the secret production was necessary for security purposes - citing the presence of United States owned nuclear weapons in South Korea and the new tensions with the U.S. under President George W Bush.[24]"
1) NK allegedly amitted not "having produced nuclear weapons", but secretly running a highly enriched uranium (HEU) program.
2) *Allegedly* admitted. According to Washington. Pyongyang denied such an admission. Moreover, even U.S. do not seem to be very sure of their own claim anymore:
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/news_view.asp?newsIdx=3088595.
There is also an opinion that the "admission" is either a total fabrication on the part of US, or a misunderstanding due to a bad translation from Korean of what the North's official said.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15265432/site/newsweek/page/0/
"There is some evidence that the Bush administration was seeking to manipulate intelligence on North Korea. During a visit to Pyongyang by lead negotiator James Kelly in October 2002, he presented what U.S. officials described as "proof" that the North had a secret uranium-enrichment program, undercutting Clintonite claims that Kim was adhering to a pledge not to advance his nuclear program. Bush officials later said the North Koreans had confessed. But diplomats now say that was a translation error. (Kelly could not be reached for comment.)" Ri hwa won 20:33, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to start a discussion as to whether this article should have a section of this nature. There are similar sections in the following articles: Tony Blair and Personality and image of Queen Elizabeth II. Adolf Hitler, George Bush and Julius Caesar go one better and get whole articles devoted to this subject - Adolf Hitler in popular culture, Fictionalized portrayals of George W. Bush and Cultural depictions of Julius Caesar. Would such a section be appropriate for this article too? SP-KP 08:47, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
OK, as there's been no comment for or against, I've added a section along these lines. Please add any further portrayals you come across. SP-KP 19:20, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
I think that's a rather sophistic, narrow, and if I may say cowardly, assessment but not surprising given how sanitized the main article is. Many references are made to figures by the media that may not have a particular impact on their personal lives but are non the less significant in popular conception of that person and the absence is in case is striking. The film depicts Kim as a puppet animated by a vindictive cockroach (a cute homage to MIB) and is widely known.
"Kim Jong-il, a noted film buff,[6] has never commented publicly about his depiction in Team America: World Police, although shortly after its release North Korea asked the Czech Republic to ban the movie.[7] In the extras, Stone expresses a desire for Kim Jong-il to sing "I'm So Ronery""
So the inclusion and the attempt to repress the film are valid entries here, both contextually and as a cross reference, and it should be speedily included.
Are we acting as a proxy for Kim? Seriously, if we can include here the useless reference to 'The song No Motherland Without You' I don't see how we can't list 'Team America's view. If I had the technical proficiency I'd add the section myself. E Guano
This article states that Soviet records state that Kim Jong-il was born on 1942-02-16, but Vyatskoye, Khabarovsk Krai states that the same records state that he was born on 1941-02-16. I don't know which date is the correct one. 1942-02-16 is the official date of birth (according to the official biography of the Dear Leader), but that is obviously not a reliable source. (Stefan2 21:31, 12 August 2007 (UTC))
Dear Leader is a glorious man, all detractors must be put to death. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.23.229.250 (talk) 14:46, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
"Dear Leader is a glorious man, all detractors must be put to death. Real or Fake? NK or Jokes? Man or god? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.199.55.33 (talk) 03:05, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
btw... in the wiki article it says the official biography states the guy was born 6 o clock on a mountain. I went to check out that biography and it doesn't seem to make reference to the time.
http://www.korea-dpr.com/library/103.pdf
(use the Find ability on your browser, search for the word "born")
I can't quote the relevant section because the Great Leader has put password protection on his bio pdf ¬¬
124.171.22.82 14:41, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
There's a short biograpy at [2], and that one doesn't mention any time of the day either. (Stefan2 21:31, 8 November 2007 (UTC))
In this article it says that Song Hye-rim died in 2003. However, at Song Hye-rim it says that she died in 2002. I don't know which is the correct year. (Stefan2 18:00, 13 August 2007 (UTC))
Honestly, does that reference deserve inclusion? I'm sure there are MANY similar portrayals of Kim in popular comedy. What makes this one special? Should be removed. WiccaWeb 04:57, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Yes, most certainly. It is consistent with other articles on personalities and to not include a reference the rather infamous portrayal of Kim as a animatronic puppet controlled by a cockroach smacks of political censorship. And it's fun. (E Guano (talk) 22:34, 10 November 2009 (UTC))
Why does he shave his left and right side of his hair? And why did the South-Korean president Roh Moo-hyun do the same thing when he visited North-Korea this week? Is it a Korean thing?
Picture example: http://gfx.dagbladet.no/pub/artikkel/5/51/513/513966/korea_1191422519.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.108.220.136 (talk) 20:48, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Doubt it. This is most likely a big coincidence involving male-pattern baldness rather than Korean tradition. I'd look into it though, as that's just an assumption, I may be incorrect. 172.141.243.248 13:33, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Maybe make him look taller —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.120.4.158 (talk) 06:22, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
As far as I know, there is no tradition of shaving the sides of our heads. Esper rant 00:40, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
It could be related to the Korean obsession with making their faces look smaller. Unlike in the West, it is common for Koreans to discuss whether someone has a big face or a small face, and small faces are considered more beautiful. As a result, many hairstyles for South Korean men involve cropping the sides very short while leaving more volume up top (the end product usually looks like a mushroom). 128.146.114.160 (talk) 20:42, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
No mention of the ridiculous Pyong Hotel project? It's a massive, unbelievably hideous skyscraper hotel his regime started building back in the 80s - 100+ stories tall. It was never finished (although the structure does indeed reach 100 stories) and it towers over the capital city in all it's "splendor". Hundreds of millions were wasted on this unusable mess and it really drives home how wasteful he has been. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.30.163.16 (talk) 13:43, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Is it true? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.50.233.128 (talk) 20:07, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
No, I highly doubt that he's a Furry, you can't even get internet access in North Korea except in military bases in the DMZ, and if he was a furry, given his personality cult, don't you think he'd be announcing it to each and everyone on Fur Affinity or something?-Ted Fox 16:14, 30 April 2008
Kim is a self-proclaimed "Internet expert". I wouldn't be surprised if he is into anime and furry art, as that kind of thing is in abundance on the Net. Esper rant 00:42, 11 September 2008 (UTC) He is the beloved "Admin" of FJ, Funny Junk.com, since it's inception in 2001. FJ features all sorts of comedy and art, from anime and furry to sketches and stick figues. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LuluQ (talk • contribs) 02:29, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
Why is it that the English Wikipedia calls him Kim Jong-il, but the Russian Wikipedia calls him Ким Чён Ир (Kim Chyon Ir)? I was also listening to a North Korean marching song that I found from a Russian site (Песня о Полководце Ким Чен Ире), and it does sound like they say Kim Chyon Ir when they reach the refrains. Is that how his name is pronounced in Korean? Rebelyell2006 (talk) 05:54, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Strange, because I was under the impression that his name was spelled Kym Chong-Il. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.78.171.218 (talk) 00:01, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Hey, can anyone tell me why his name in English here is spelled as "Jong-il"?? I have only seen "Jung-il" from English articles in usual before. Is that used to differentiate "중/Jung", "정/Jong" and "종/Joong" (just like "소/Soo")?--Gzyeah (talk) 06:36, 27 January 2009 (UTC) -You are a little mixed up here. 소 is romanized as "so" and 수 is romanized as "su" and 서 would look like "seo" according to the standards in Korea now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrisjbrooks (talk • contribs) 07:29, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
Image:Kimjongil-wave.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 18:12, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Unless they are used satirically (which is another problem), the segments about Jong-il's hobbies should be removed. At least there should be a disclaimer saying something about the fact that the information is retrieved from propaganda intended to boost his image. --66.214.90.232 (talk) 20:52, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
I think this is a very important point. It serves to clarify.
I note that there are few examples of the actual extent of Kim's cult of personality. Exactly how many tributes, films, poems, books, etc are devoted to North Korea's despot? Calibanu (talk) 00:18, 5 February 2008 (UTC)Calibanu http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Johttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-ilng-il —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.252.28.197 (talk) 02:07, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
The article claims that the NK army is 4th largest in the world. This contradicts the linked page which says it is the 5th 163.1.99.133 (talk) 15:06, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Big deal, 4th largest or not, when they fight, their troops are an easy target because they always move so close together. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.78.171.218 (talk) 00:03, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Has anybody else come across rumors about his death? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.167.144.138 (talk) 19:25, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
So, who decided to use the glamor shot? Didn't realize Wikipedia had been infiltrated by Juchists, along with every other totalitarian ideology. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.222.149.167 (talk) 15:08, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Did the DPRK realy put this younger version of Kim picture or is it just some guy messing around? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.152.105.17 (talk) 21:45, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
Isn't it a little slanderous, tasteless at best to have a picture of Kim shaking hands with Vladimir Putin some 10 years ago as the article's main picture? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.107.76.206 (talk) 08:54, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
hehe. I don't really care about his picture. He's ana wful man.
There are a number of disputes amongst historians in regard to events in Kim Jong-il's life. These relate to his alleged cult of personality, which is discussed here.
Why is Kim Jong-il's official portrait in the public domain while Kim Il-sung's official portrait is copyrighted?
Thank you.
71.121.81.9 (talk) 09:10, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
Nearly every public figure with a Wikipedia page has a Criticism section yet there is only passing mention of the extensive human rights abuses perpetuated by Kim Jong-Il. This information should be included in this article because it is a defining characteristic of Kim Jong-Il's rule and a fairly large component of his job performance as a world leader. --Ambigera 22:10, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
I agree. This man is responsbile for starving millions of North Koreans to death, he has concentration camps placed around the country that enslave and murder families. This article doesn't say one peep about it. In fact, I'd go so far to say that someone actually FAVORS Kim who wrote it and that is disgusting. Shame on the editors for portraying a murderous dictator this way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.108.28.14 (talk) 21:07, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
I'm sry, but this lack of a criticism section makes this article totally ridiculous; Kim Jong-il's crimes against human rights are an epitome character trait of him as a public person, so having critics spreaded between the lines in stead of dedicating this aspect an own section is totally inappropriate. I mean, you wouldn't get the idea to leace out a principal criticism section on a Hitler-article, as well, would you ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.143.56.104 (talk) 04:22, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
Is this worth noting? http://www.japantoday.com/category/kuchikomi/view/north-koreas-kim-died-in-2003-and-was-replaced-by-lookalike-says-waseda-profesor —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.164.80.71 (talk) 16:06, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
In my opinion, no. The article itself would struggle to pass muster here. It itself notes that claims are made without citing sources. I also struggle to see how a spy satellite in orbit could possibly be used to measure the height of a person from above. Trigonometry is all well and good but even allowing for that the margin of error in such calculations would vastly exceed the claims being made. It's an interesting article, but in much the same way on on whether Elvis lives in Beijing. Srushe (talk) 16:49, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
Well someone has added it. I don't agree that it should be there but I've left it. I have added some requests for better citations and information though. Srushe (talk) 21:02, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
(outdent)I don't understand. Is there a communication issue here? Am I poorly expressing myself? I didn't argue that it shouldn't be mentioned at all. As near as I can tell, that's all you're addressing. I'm talking about whether or not it's being given undue weight in terms of the extent of its mention. On the other hand, CNN has been covering suspicions about his illness all day and that only gets a single sentence. What I don't understand is why that paragraph can't be better integrated to address questions about his health in general, and not focus only on a single person's theory. 209.90.134.118 (talk) 21:34, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
The fact that it is being given significant coverate by reputable news outlets (BBC,Reuters, AFP) surely makes it notable and inclusion would be valid. None of them are citing Shigemura. Yes it's rumour, but it passes WP:BLP, WP:V and WP:RS (including the bit about reporting rumours). The rumour has been denied by North Korea so it passes WP:NPOV too. 203.7.140.3 (talk) 04:38, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
Why does it say December 19? Everything I'm reading says Saturday, that would be the 17. Steinburger1109 (talk) 04:16, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
He doesn't call him mentally ill.
I've removed that entire section as unsourced and unencyclopedic. Frank | talk 19:49, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
((editsemiprotected)) The main page currently says "Critics[who?] maintain Kim Jong-il is the centre of an elaborate personality cult inherited from his father and founder of the DPRK, Kim Il-sung. Defectors[who?]have been quoted as saying that North Korean schools deify both father and son, teaching that they do not urinate or defecate like mortal humans.[49][need quote]He is often the centre of attention throughout ordinary life in the DPRK. His birthday is one of the most important public holidays in the country. On his 60th birthday (based on his official date of birth), mass celebrations occurred throughout the country.[50]"
References to this are easily obtained. For example, a story in the Christian Science Monitor, January 3, 2007, "N. Korea escalates 'cult of Kim' to counter West's influence" by Robert Marquand, found here: http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0103/p01s04-woap.html, notes that the tide of foreign ideas and products are considered a threat to the regime, and uses a personality cult to counter it. Marquand cites a doctoral thesis by Lee Jong Heon at Chung-Ang University in Seoul, who claims that Kim's personality cult outstrips Mao's at the height of the cultural revolution. Mr. Marquand quotes former South Korean Foreign Minister Han Sung Joo as saying "Every speech says Kim Il Sung is still alive. I think if I stayed another two weeks, I might even see Kim Il Sung. The country worships someone who is deceased, as if he is alive."
--Knldgmanic (talk) 03:40, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
Yes, but you can't just say "Critics[who?] maintain Kim Jong-il is the centre of an elaborate personality cult". Even if you cite a reference. You must give an example of who these critics are. The above statement is not acceptable as Encyclopedic content. It is not verifiable. Also, the reference cited is a book, but there is no quotation, which is needed. These so called critics could be anyone, and a clear example must be given, IN THE ARTICLE. Read the wikipedia article on weasel words, and you will find that this statement is a weasel word, and rightly should have the "who" tag, and it was me who kept putting it in, and you must be the person who wrongly kept removing it. Until you conclude the above sentence by giving an example of WHO these critics are, and citing a reference, it should continue to have the who tag.Guitar3000 (talk) 17:38, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
Yes it should, the sentence Critics[who?] maintain Kim Jong-il is the centre of an elaborate personality cult" is a weasel word. Even if there are reliable sources, it still needs to be cited, you are wrong here.Guitar3000 (talk) 17:40, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
Reputable news agencies are now reporting that Kim has suffered a minor stroke.[4][5] 203.7.140.3 (talk) 06:37, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
Utter secrecy due to the form of government and military secrets I added NYT, BBC, CNN and Reuters etc. on - Several reports and counter reports on collapse stroke surgery and reuters fact box on successor - since, readers must deeply understand that unlike in USA, UK and Philippines, inter alia, utter secrecy prevents the unfolding of the truth on his health. RUMOR is not really a rumor under the circumstances It is true he died. --Florentino floro (talk) 09:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
I removed the bit about silver chopsticks being used in the Forbidden City/to detect poison as it is OR. One reference provided mentions his use of silver chopsticks. However it doesn't mention anything about them being used to detect poison. The other reference mentions they were said to detect poison, but doesn't say anything about Kim. Putting these together, therefore implying there may be some connection between Kim using silver chopsticks and their historic use to detect poison is a form of OR. Nil Einne (talk) 12:28, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
There are now photos of Kim Jong-il available on Commons, albeit with Vladimir Putin. The photos are from Kremlin.ru, which we now have permission to use, and I will leave it up to editors of this article to pick and include photos where possible and necessary. Take advantage of this resource. Commons:Category:Kim Jong Il --Russavia Dialogue Stalk me 02:37, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
Widespread conjecture began circulating 19 October 2008 ahead of official North Korean Government announcement that Kim Jong-il's health condition has caused an internal crisis. News reports: North Korean boarders have been sealed, Diplomats told not to travel pending announcement October 20th. Times-on-Line: Envoy alert fuels Kim Jong-il rumours The Canadian Press: South Korea skeptical about reports of major changes in the North —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boul22435 (talk • contribs) 23:40, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
People examining the recent photograph of Kim Jong-il have shown that it is fake. The most obvious mistake is the way Kim's shadow falls differently to everyone else's, but close-ups reveal sharp lines in the pixels around Kim's legs, indicating that two images have been put together. Try here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7715458.stm. Of course, maybe Kim's intellect is just so massive that the light bends around him differently. :) 92.22.81.160 (talk) 17:50, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
http://www.sciam.com/blog/60-second-science/post.cfm?id=did-north-korea-fake-photos-of-kim-2008-11-10 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Troublemaker1973 (talk • contribs) 13:20, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
NOPE says there is no evidence they are fake, doesn't prove they are real, read the end of the article 01:14, 20 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.227.231.86 (talk)
At least one thing in the photo looks fake -- The two men on either side of Kim have identical headgear, but the shadows of their heads differ. The shadow of the man on Kim's left looks correct (fur cap), but the shadow of the man on the right is much larger and looks more like that of a Russian-style peaked cap. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.2.204.228 (talk) 02:12, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
I suggest we remove the following:
- "Kim Jong-il's official biography[4] states that he was born in a secret military camp on Baekdu Mountain (백두산) in northern Korea on 16 February 1942.[5] Official biographers claim that his birth at Baekdu Mountain was foretold by a swallow, and heralded by the appearance of a double rainbow over the mountain and a new star in the heavens."
There is no point including such fairy stories on the page. If people want to learn more about this propaganda then they can read the book. We could replace it with "Kim Jong-il's official biography suggests more humourous origins." 92.22.81.160 (talk) 22:16, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
I've tagged this article as requiring more reliable sources. Although individual sources are tagged as unreliable, there are so many unreliable sources quoted it affects the entire article.
The sheer number of sources from Pyongyang which will have been compiled under state 'guidance' is concerning. I also imagine the 'Daily NK' or Western media (Fox, for example) are reliable.
Reliability is probably not going to be achieved, but the reader should at least know this. Computerjoe's talk 17:52, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
That he had a big 60th birthday is not significant, since in Korean culture the sixtieth birthday is traditionally a big event (e.g. 21st birthday in the West). A Westerner not knowing this may take it as yet another exaggerated fete in honour of Kim, but this in itself is really not notable. It can be deleted from the article IMO. 118.90.45.84 (talk) 11:42, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
I saw this: "Kim is said to be a fan of luxury cars, and has been known for racing his cars at his palaces. Kim had spent $20,000,000 on importing 200 new Mercedes Benz S500 luxury sedans, adding to North Korea's fleet of 7,000 Mercedes cars"
the article reads:"One point of view is that Kim Jong Il's cult of personality is solely out of respect for Kim Il-sung or out of fear of punishment for failure to pay homage.[70] Media and government sources from outside of North Korea generally support this view" This should be rephrased or deleted:whoever wrote this, clearly express their own personal opinion and not fact: when it says
"Media and government sources from outside of North Korea generally support this view" this is nonsense: you can always find an article somewhere that will support any point of view. Sure, the state media says it's genuine hero worship, it could be acceptable, but the "Media and government sources from outside of North Korea generally support this view" is nonsense: does that mean I could write an article for any media group and it would be "fact"> also, it doesn't give clear government sources. This statement is clearly biased, and anyone who knows what is acceptable on wikipedia should agree with me on that one. I want to delete or rephrase it, a bit of feedback would be good.
But it's unacceptable as it is.Guitar3000 (talk) 14:39, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
I live in Seoul, and it is widely known here that the Dear Leader fathered a child with a South Korean actress. The story goes that when he first met South Korean leaders during the Sunshine Policy years, he specifically asked that the South Korean actress be bought to the meeting. She was convinced to come along. After her return to South Korea, she dropped out of the limelight and bore the Dear Leader's illegitimate child. I've been unable to find written evidence of this widespread story, and therefore cannot add it to the article. Can anyone help? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.240.61.2 (talk) 04:11, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
If the story is "widely known" but there is no written evidence, it is likely an urban legend. Anything "well known" of such significance would be widely reported in the media. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.101.157.225 (talk) 08:39, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
Look at the stories about Choi Eun-hee —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.68.182.211 (talk) 16:00, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
Is there any proof he's a atheist? - 72.9.18.179 (talk) 03:08, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
Can someone be called an atheist when they believe themselves to be a living god? Ninahexan (talk) 01:25, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Sunoco, anti-religion does not equate to atheism, you can be against organized religion, yet still believe in a God. There isn't any sources that state he is an atheist —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.166.236.54 (talk) 01:40, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
Sunoco, maybe you would be interested in reading up on socialism, you can start with the wiki page for christian socialism if you like. The article on political religion is also quite interesting, and I believe might provide some food for thoughts about why Kim Jong Il seems not to have made note of his religious beliefs, and why other religions have been apparently persecuted. Ninahexan (talk) 04:04, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Most of this content is not exactly neutral. How many of the edits are being made from North Korea and China?
not Great Dictator, he is the Dear Dictator ;)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by R (talk • contribs) 15:05, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
From the article:
Unconfirmed reports suggest that 5 year old Kim Jong-il may have caused the accident.[3] In 1949, his mother died in childbirth.[4] Again unconfirmed reports suggest that his mother may have been shot and left to bleed to death.[5]
The first and last statements are pure speculation. I realize that not much is known about Kim Jong-Il, but this seems a little bit far-fetched, don't you think? The references to both statements are to a book "Leaders and Followers in a Dangerous World" which as far as I can tell offers no actual evidence for either of these claims. The article refers to them as "unconfirmed", as if that some how makes it ok.
I realize that Kim Jong-Il is not generally well regarded but WP:BIO still applies -- suggesting that as a 5 year old he drowned his brother in a pool and was somehow involved in his mother's death as a child is bordering on slanderous, especially when there's absolutely no evidence that either of these things is true. This is like going to George W. Bush's WP article and adding "Unconfirmed reports suggest that George Bush beat Laura on a regular basis and was having an affair with Condi Rice", and then referencing those claims by linking to some hysterical book that makes that claim. It's a relevant comparison because Bush too is not well liked by a large segment of the population and as a result there are many decidedly NPOV sources floating around out there that we could find to reference any claim, no matter how ridiculous. "Unconfirmed reports" may as well be the National Enquirer.
I suggest we delete those two statements and their sources (which incidentally, are to a google books search, not to a specific page or paragraph). 209.165.164.90 (talk) 13:01, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm removing the ridiculous claim about the brother. As for the mother bit, from what you posted it doesn't directly implicate him so maybe it's fine to leave that there. 174.97.235.154 (talk) 20:19, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
Nevermind... this page is protected. Grrrrrr.... 174.97.235.154 (talk) 20:20, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
I heard that KJI, his secret nickname, once played 18 holes of golf and got a hole-in-one on every hole. Apparently, some people believe this. Can anyone provide a link to any other KJI "facts" ? --Torchpratt (talk) 14:38, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
I know the paragraph title sounds like I'm a troll, but I have a serious question. Along with "supernatural" events that foretold his birth, it is apparently the position of Kim Jong Il's official biography that he is able to manipulate time and space. I looked for additional info on this, but am unable to find it. Anyone know anything more about this?
Just so you know I'm not completely making this up, here is a cryptic reference to this fact in a foreign policy (FP) article:
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4878&page=7 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.98.156.16 (talk) 11:22, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
All of Kim's children should be listed in this article. Badagnani (talk) 10:45, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
I've heard on some media reports that Kim is said to be a heavy drinker, does anyone have any sources about that? 217.87.192.10 (talk) 14:19, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
http://www.korea-dpr.com/library/103.pdf
This source is listed 12 times in the "Education" and "Early Political Career" sections. It is clearly propaganda, as it is unsubstantiated, obviously hyperbolic, and attributed to a likely biased source. I propose that all information in the article attributed to this source be deleted unless it can be verified through another, more reliable means. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Datatable (talk • contribs) 09:19, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
I find this reverted edit highly clever, funny and oddly fitting, juche can indeed be taken as a kind of nationalistic religion, however it is more widely taken as an ideology and it's a stretch to put it into this bucket without a source showing KJi has asserted this as his own religion. Gwen Gale (talk) 12:01, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Why no discussion of his children? (and/or the women he was involved with to produce offspring) Kim Jong-nam is his eldest son, and he has at least 2 more sons, I believe. Hogvillian (talk) 17:40, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Can anyone confirm or deny the alligation that the North Korean President Kim Jong-il attempted to bring the moon to North Korea? 75.69.128.175
I can't find the article now, but a year or so back it was published in USA TODAY that he claimed to have a 11 inch penis and would often need 3 or 4 women to satisfy him.
What can I say, he's a classy guy... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.202.94.99 (talk) 13:34, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Hahahahaha...no. Mrxuinthehouse (talk) 02:06, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
(Redacted) 12:34, 8 May 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by I'll have the fish (talk • contribs)
Stephen Colbert referred to him as a woman. Which makes me wonder if I was mistaken that he is a man. 192.118.11.120 (talk) 00:46, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
It appears that the link to "Kim Young Sook" in the family tree is pointing to the wrong person (Maya). Can someone fix that?--76.182.219.106 (talk) 05:11, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Is the statement "CNN has described Kim as one of the most mysterious leaders in the world" really necessary in the lead? I have no problem with the factual accuracy, but this statement looks a little bit odd and disconnected in the lead, especially due the qualifier that CNN has described him as mysterious. 76.117.1.254 (talk) 03:22, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
Both this page and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Yong-nam name the respective subjects as the de facto leaders (individually). Should this be changed in the other article? aigiqinf (talk) 06:53, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
I would like to see at least one of the pictures of him wearing a cowboy hat. --41.17.128.80 (talk) 14:53, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
The Worker's Party of Korea is referenced in one place as KWP "KoreanWorker's Party". I suggest to uniform all references as "Worker's Party of Korea" and the acronym to WPK as it is defined in the page for that organization. Mariostorti (talk) 21:03, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Clintonkimjongil.jpg
need to add this in. rumors of his death/bad health. i believe this is the most recent photo of him. august 4th? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.90.155.7 (talk) 22:14, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
He is very well known for 'scoring' (I don't know the proper term) 5 holes-in-one the very first time he played golf. For some reason it isn't mentioned. I guess his busy political schedule stops him from going pro and representing his country at the masters. Its very unfortunate, as Korea DPR doesn't have many good golfers (none that would challenge that mad shagger Tiger Woods anyway). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.202.94.99 (talk) 13:39, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Just to clarify, Kim Jong-Il is known as the dear leader, and is never known as the great leader. Kim Il-sung is referred to as the great leader. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.43.59.133 (talk) 22:31, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
((editsemiprotected))
please add new picture: Kimjongil.png
--KurtR (talk) 10:44, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
It is stated that he has the world's biggest, DVD collection standing at 20,000. Should we include this? (86.170.161.100 (talk) 13:56, 6 January 2010 (UTC))
Will this be good?
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/kim-jong-il.htm
(86.170.161.100 (talk) 01:33, 9 January 2010 (UTC))
Search for this: "present),in which". It's a typo. It should read: "present), in which" (note the space after the comma).
I think we should find more about Kim Jong-il's sister Kim Kyong-Hui (김경희). There is an AFP news article, Sister of N.Korea leader 'wielding more power' (Feb 17, 2009) describing few details about her. Komitsuki (talk) 05:41, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
((editsemiprotected))
I'm an anon user and can't edit this article, but it would be good if somebody removed the "Supreme Leader" title beneath Kim's portrait, did the same in the Official Titles section, and struck the capitalization from said title in the second to last sentence of the introduction. As the Wikipedia article states (with language taken from the linked BBC article), the revised constitution of the DPRK refers to him as the "supreme leader" implicitly (rather than explicitly) and the title is not capitalized in the source. The BBC capitalizes official titles and states' constitutions never implicitly confer official titles (they do so explicitly). State information in the DPRK tends to be effluent in its application of unofficial laudatory titles to Kim and it's likely that there's some of that in the new constitution. Hence the BBC's use of the word "implicitly" and their choice not to capitalize the title.
Also, it's probably best to remove the title "Great Leader" from Official Titles section and the last sentence of the introduction. The PDF link its use is sourced from is broken and "Great Leader" is an official title of Kim Il-sung. It would be surprising if Kim the Younger had been given his father's title considering that the latter is still officially the President of the DPRK and its use in other credible sources always refers to the Elder.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.244.169.73 (talk) 20:14, May 13, 2010
Seriously people, there SHOULD be a "criticism" section on this page. Who edited this, the man himself? --Olijven (talk) 18:00, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
I believe that we should add the name "douchey-smurf" to his list of titles. I believe it is a rather cute nickname for him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.59.240.239 (talk) 18:26, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Many people in North Korea have been imprisoned or killed for speaking out against the Kim regime. Almost everyone in North Korea wears a small pin with a picture of Kim Jŏng-Il or Kim Il-Sŏng on it. North Korean defectors have testified to the existence of prison and detention camps with an estimated 150,000 to 200,000 inmates (about 0.85% of the population), and have reported torture, starvation, rape, murder, medical experimentation, forced labour, and forced abortions.[155] Convicted political prisoners and their families are sent to these camps, where they are prohibited from marrying, required to grow their own food, and cut off from external communication (which was previously allowed).North Korean citizens cannot freely travel around the country or go abroad.[1][2] Only the political elite may own vehicles and the government limits access to fuel and other forms of transportation. (Satellite photos of North Korea show an almost complete lack of vehicles on all of the roads.) Forced resettlement of citizens and families, especially as punishment for political reasons, is said to be routine.
Only the most politically reliable and healthiest citizens are allowed to live in Pyongyang. Those who are suspected of sedition, or have family members suspected of it, are removed from the city; similar conditions affect those who are physically or mentally disabled in some way (the only exception being Korean War veterans with injuries relating to the conflict). This can be a significant method of coercion as food and housing are said to be much better in the capital city.
Environment – current issues: localized air pollution attributable to inadequate industrial controls; water pollution; inadequate supplies of potable water; deforestation. Lack of information makes it difficult to assess the extent to which industrialization and urbanization have damaged North Korea's natural environment. Using generally obsolete technology transferred from the former Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China, the country embarked on a program of ambitious industrialization after the Korean War.
Air pollution is moderated by the extensive reliance on electricity rather than on fossil fuels, both for industry and the heating of urban residences. Air pollution is further limited by the absence of private automobiles and restrictions on using gasoline-powered vehicles because of the critical shortage of petroleum.
Significant deforestation since the 1990s, due to timber and firewood harvesting, drought, and clearing of farmland. Degradation of farmland due to deforestation has been blamed as a contributing factor in declining crop yields.
Can I get a request to modify something here by adding to Kim Jong Il? 79.115.13.42 (talk) 05:50, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
Can I get a request to modify something here by adding to Kim Jong Il? 79.115.13.42 (talk) 05:52, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. SpigotMap 13:22, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
Should he really be referred to by his first name throughout the article? Should he not be referred to as "Jong-Il"? ArtistScientist (talk) 02:42, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
I think the psychological evaluation bit is pretty ridiculous. It works on the assumption that Kim Jong Il is an insane dictator and that we must therefore analyse him to see what makes him such an evil man. It is quite obiously POV, particularly the way it is presented. I'm not saying the claims of such psychologists should not be included, but they should be put into a proper context, which is a highly anti-Kim one, not a neutral one as this article purports to suggest.86.176.86.224 (talk) 09:20, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
((editsemiprotected)) He is a dictator that has enslaved hundred's if not thousands and is respnsible for countless deaths. This page does not highlight his more horrific tendencies as a human being.
91.84.90.125 (talk) 21:46, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
Not done
I noticed the pictures keep changing and some are gone. The picture of him with his family is gone. Also i think we should find a better infobox picture of him thats not cropped. Spongie555 (talk) 05:48, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
Is the real Kim Jong-il dead, and his role being played by a double?. A possibility. Komitsuki (talk) 13:00, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Erm - Surely he's not dead yet - surely we shouldn't be pre-empting the succession details, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.171.166.237 (talk) 05:24, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
((edit semi-protected)) Kim Jong-il also invented a well-known website called funnyjunk.com.
ABERMON (talk) 23:11, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
I too, have heard of this. Why is it not on here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.17 (talk) 23:51, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
I believe he goes by the name "Admin" on this website, no? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.172.96.250 (talk) 01:59, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
References to Kim Jong-il's wife Kim Young-sook confusingly redirect to his mother: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Young-sook http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-suk
PhilJeffcock (talk) 16:27, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
Was there really ever any validity to this report? It sounds like there never really was. And considering that this was first reported in July of 2009 and he's still alive now 1 year and 4 months later, I just doubt it. This cancer is usually discovered late and the average life expectancy from diagnosis is something like 3-6 months. I think only 20% or something like that live beyond 1 year. So considering those statistics, I'm led to believe one of three possibilities. First is that the story was fabricated or never true. Second, he has access to special treatment which normal citizens don't have. Or three, he is somehow one of the less than 20% who live 1 year and 4 months with one of the deadliest cancers. I'm not saying the mention of the report should be removed from the article but...I'm just not sure how relevant it is anymore. There were other reports saying that he would be dead before the end of 2009 and he's still alive at the end of 2010. I now see it's under the rumor section though. I guess if it belongs in the article, it's in the right place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.230.68.60 (talk) 23:52, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
It appears to me that this article (among others) misses Kims youngest daughter Yeo-Jong, daughter of Kim Jong-Il and Ko Young-hee. Sources: The Chosunilbo, nkleadershipwatchblog. The latter article mentions several Books and Magazines as sources, but I have not had the chance to check them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.73.177.227 (talk) 10:44, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
Kim Jong Il is not deified in the DPRK. He does not claim divinity nor does the government claim it on his behalf. He is, however, the subject of metaphorical praise and various legends created for social control, much like George Washington who couldn't tell a lie, or Honest Abe the rail-splitter, or Davy Crockett who killed a bear at the age of 3, or John F. Kennedy the universally loved king of Camelot. 24.22.217.162 (talk) 22:07, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
Also it isn't true that he's the "de facto leader" and not the official leader. The most recent constitution says that the NDC Chairman is the "supreme leader." Before that it was the "highest post in the state." In either case, it is a crystal-clear wording that contradicts the "de facto leader" claim of the article. 24.22.217.162 (talk) 22:07, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
Let's be encyclopedic. The material I just deleted ["the official leader of the country is still his long-deceased father Kim Il-sung, the founder of the state.[1][2][3]"] is not appropriate. One, the first reference is a dead link. Two, the Hitchens material is pure op/ed and not factual; for example, he refers to Jong-il as a gargoyle -- should the article say "North Korea is lead by a gargoyle" based on Hitchens' description? Three, the constitution does not give dead eternal leader any role, powers, responsibilities, etc. normally associated with an office holder. With this in mind, it is not proper to describe dear dead leader as the "de jure" leader in contrast to any "de facto" leader. In fact, as the constitution gives specific responsibilities, powers, etc. to specific, living office holders -- these people are the "de jure" and "de facto" leaders. The description of "eternal leader" is purely honorific and is certainly not intended to imply that he has any active role in leading the country. Accordingly, the NPOV description of Jong-il as simply "leader" is appropriate.--S. Rich (talk) 15:56, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
The following comments are cut&pasted from user talkpages regarding the category "military brat" for KJI--S. Rich (talk) 17:48, 8 February 2011 (UTC):
Should we include his appearance in Team America: World Police as a popular culture refrence or not? It doesn't appear to be there. -- 92.4.118.215 (talk) 22:58, 31 May 2011 (UTC)
He plays a main role in Team America: World Police as the main antogonist. --Mista Parka, blad 21:17, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
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I've seen that Kim-Jong-il is exceptional at looking at things and feel that this could be added to the page as he is, in fact, vr well known for looking at things. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.33.148.205 (talk) 09:50, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
Ap just reported his death. Tag please. Phearson (talk) 03:08, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/north-korea-supreme-leader-kim-jong-il-died-15185454 Phearson (talk) 03:09, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
I wonder if it was 17 or 18 December when he died? I suggest local time. --Octra Bond (talk) 03:14, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
Not sure what day he died. But pretty sure his death was reported on 19 December (Korea time), not 18. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.82.229.51 (talk) 03:24, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
The guy dies, and within minutes his Wikipedia entry is updated! Amazing! PiCo (talk) 03:18, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
He prob. died some time before their news organisation was allowed to report it — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.209.161.195 (talk) 03:28, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
The death was reported on 19th local Korean time not 18th 180.181.22.171 (talk) 03:26, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
There are a wide number of reports stating that the impact of KJI death on South Korean stock markets is now known to be limited in duration and scale, which belies expectations. The death of KJI was anticipated to be a major geopolitical event and impact stock markets. This is summarized at Junotane Korea. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ConradPark (talk • contribs) 03:18, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
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