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To illustrate, here are the comics talked about before. Under each, if we could list which of the above criteria would apply, perhaps we could get a better idea of how close we are to being happy?
brenneman^(t)(c) 06:54, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, now that we've got a little something to work with, I'm going to start to sort these comics. According to the facts presented, presuming that these claims are verifiable and would be properly tested on any AfD that occured. - brenneman^(t)(c) 03:32, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• Included print publication here as this matches other guidelines

Appears in newspaper and Esquire magazine Phil Sandifer 02:23, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• Substantial coverage in major outside source (Peer-reviewed journal ImageTexT) Phil Sandifer 08:10, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • imagetext and the article. - brenneman^(t)(c) 19:26, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • A comic journal would be an inside source within the comic community. Nathan J. Yoder 17:19, 5 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
• Alexa 70,823. Dragonfiend 16:31, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• Print collection - migrated to newspapers Phil Sandifer 08:09, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• Print collection through Dark Horse Comics. Phil Sandifer 16:56, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
• Alexa 13,668. Dragonfiend 02:19, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• Print collection through Image Comics Phil Sandifer 16:54, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
• Alexa 8,419. Dragonfiend 06:11, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• At least three books [1], [2], [3]. Reviewed by TIME [4]. May occasionally break the top 20 of Webcomics Nation (is currently #34 on All-time Top 100). Tom HArt has had comics on Modern Tales and Serializer. Dragonfiend 02:17, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• Coverage outside webcomics community (Published in Rolling Stone, alt weeklies). Two printed books. Dragonfiend 16:35, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Alexa is teh win at 5,452. Nifboy 05:22, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to note - it would be absolutely absurd to delete this comic. So that it's not tagged with a good reason to keep is a clear sign of a problem in our guidelines. Phil Sandifer 06:13, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• With all due respect, and your professional qualification taken as read, why? This is the crux of the sometimes acrimonious debate that seems to keep occuring. Whatever the field, there are measures of notability that are applied. Papers on n-dimensional manifolds have citations in algebraic journals, counts of how many other papers cite them. Soccer players have how many million pounds they make. Sculptors have shows in established galleries. There does not exist a reputable field that has no objective measurement of worth. We can talk about post-modernism I suppose, but if there isn't something to hang our hat on out it goes.
  brenneman^(t)(c) 06:24, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Actually, moot point - this passes the significant circulation test, having started in a magazine with 4.5 million circulation. Phil Sandifer 06:26, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• Heavy coverage outside of webcomics when author was able to get a full year's salary and quit his job from donations. I know at least Neil Gaiman's blog carried it. Phil Sandifer 16:51, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can we make a special category for this on just for inventing the nicotine release tampon? Please?
    brenneman^(t)(c) 05:38, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • Alexa, I'm sure, gets this one, but I've generally avoided doing Alexa checks, since my guess is that there aren't really any comics where Alexa is the only necessary criteria, and I think that by looking past Alexa we get a very good clue as to the ways in which webcomics do things that are important. Phil Sandifer 06:12, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • Has enjoyed exposure in print media outside the comic sphere, albiet the D&D monster manual.
        brenneman^(t)(c) 06:38, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/A Softer World

• Coverage outside the webcomics community [5]. Dragonfiend 16:25, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
• Umm, that's "Daily comic book news" so it's not 100% outside, is it? - brenneman^(t)(c) 16:43, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm sorry, are we now saying that when a webcomic gets attention from the print comics world, that's not valid? Phil Sandifer 16:50, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • I see your point, brenneman; it's definitely inside the *comics* community but definitely outside the *webcomics* community, which is how our proposed guideline reads. Newsarama has an Alexa of 6,991, making them far more notable and influential than any of the minor webcomics fan blogs in our proposed guidelines. Dragonfiend 16:56, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • And this begs the question that if something passes one section of the proposed guideline can it then rope something else in? There is logic to that, even though I'd never heard of Newsarama before. (Please note that the link to Newsarama I've just put in the previous comment is really poor.) - brenneman^(t)(c) 19:09, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
• Survived previous VfD. Phil Sandifer 16:50, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's not really helpful, though, is it? I mean, we're looking for signposts that we can point to objectivly in some supposed future AfD. - brenneman^(t)(c) 19:09, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • I think it's very helpful - for whatever reason, there is something about this comic that was explicitly found notable. Phil Sandifer 19:44, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • Well, since we're left with nothing to take away but for the fact that had you not convinced one person to change their vote it would have been deleted, how does this help us to move forward. If "Able and baker" had not just been closed, for example, how would you reference this VfD decision to that decision? We're trying to make standards.
        brenneman^(t)(c) 20:14, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
        • We're surely not trying to set a binding policy that would go against what is established as how VfD/AfD has shown itself to work. After all, that would go against existing consensus... Phil Sandifer 21:06, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
          • I must admit, I find it hard to take that contribution as made in good faith. Is your contention then there does not exist a single example where a band article was kept prior to the acceptance of WP:MUSIC that would have been deleted post that guideline's acceptance? - brenneman^(t)(c) 22:38, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
            • It still strikes me as inappropriate to try to use a guideline to reshape what consensus can form among users. Phil Sandifer 22:46, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
              • "Survived previous VfD" is not an example of how this comic meets any of our proposed guidelines. The reason is survived may be (it was discussed by notable print comics writer and blogger Warren Ellis). Dragonfiend 02:26, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Mention in the Washington Blade, alongside a bevy of other LGBT strips. Fifth most popular on Keenspace (Alexa). Nifboy 00:26, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• Print run by Maniacal Platypus Publishing - brenneman^(t)(c) 23:45, 4 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• [6] and [7]. Alexa near 102k. Author draws several Modern Tales strips as well. Nifboy 23:57, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • (Edit: also a Yahoo pick of the day, for whatever that's worth. Nifboy 08:07, 5 November 2005 (UTC))[reply]

• These are the "non thorny" ones
• Included Alexa 100K which doesn't stand a hope in hell of gathering wider support unless we can make a compelling argument for it

• Syndicate Phil Sandifer 08:09, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
• Alexa 13,370. Dragonfiend 16:41, 2 November 2005 (UTC

• Alexa 16,590. Dragonfiend 16:29, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• Named one of best comics of 2004 by Webcomics Examiner Phil Sandifer 02:14, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
• Alexa 31k. Nifboy 05:17, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• Alexa 37,247. Dragonfiend 16:39, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Alexa 37k. Nifboy 05:20, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• Syndicate, Coverage on sites Phil Sandifer 08:09, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
• Alexa 51,529. Dragonfiend 16:27, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• Alexa 81,984. Dragonfiend 16:37, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• Included "Coverage within" here

• Syndicate Phil Sandifer 08:09, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• Syndicate Phil Sandifer 08:09, 2 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Failed aborted comic - does not pass GO - Hahnchen 13:34, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• Syndicate Phil Sandifer 02:14, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• Reviewed by Comixpedia [8]. Dragonfiend 02:11, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • A review which received zero comments and this wasn't reviewed by two independent sources. Nathan J. Yoder 17:18, 5 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• Or there is no information provided yet