Pppery

The following discussion is preserved as a request for adminship that has been automatically placed on hold pending a decision as to the outcome. Please do not modify the text. The result of the discussion will be posted soon.

Voice your opinion on this candidate (talk page) (15/4/2); Scheduled to end 16:25, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Nomination

Pppery (talk · contribs) – For my second-ever RFA nomination, and first since 2016, I present Pppery, who coincidentally registered their account just a couple days before I started that April 2016 nomination. Since then Pppery has amassed over 66,000 edits (~top 1500 by count). His clean block log, lengthy user log (over 1800 pages moved and 600 pages patrolled) and drama-free talk page attest to his pleasant and civil interactions. Gerda thought he was Precious after only four months of editing! Administrator's Noticeboard search finds just 48 unproblematic items, many relating to him providing technical advice, and some where he reported 3RR violations that resulted in blocks. His top-notch technical abilities caught my attention long ago. He's been very helpful with my merge bot's task 2. I told him he was ready for this back in September 2021. He's been saying he wants to be an administrator since March 2019 and I trust that it's finally time for the community to say that his adminship has begun... – wbm1058 (talk) 05:43, 29 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Co-nomination statement

I'll second what Wbm1058 said above. And I'll also add that in my view, the editor clearly meets my criteria for adminship. I should also probably point out that they are already an administrator on MediaWiki, and a patroller on Commons (Special:CentralAuth/Pppery). And as for "need", they are very active, well, on my watchlist, active nearly everywhere, lol. But in particular, helps out a lot in the more technical side of Wikipedia. And has been helping out at WP:CFD, where there has been an ongoing backlog of late. All in all, a worthwhile candidate. Please hand them the mop so they can get to work : ) - jc37 20:16, 29 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here: I accept the nomination. I have never edited Wikipedia for pay. * Pppery * it has begun... 16:25, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Questions for the candidate

Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve Wikipedia as an administrator. Please answer these questions to provide guidance for participants:

1. Why are you interested in becoming an administrator?
A: I first expressed interest in becoming an administrator in March 2019, following a spree of fully-protected edit requests to templates and interface messages (most of which were eventually granted, after week-to-month long delays), thinking I could save the admins processing my requests effort. Although my specific interests have moved on, and I was in hindsight not ready to run for adminship then, the underlying motivation, that I want to be an admin because I find myself making regular requests for admin action of various sorts, has remained the same.
To answer the old version of this question: What administrative work do you intend to take part in?, specific examples of venues I will likely work in are Wikipedia:Requests for history merge, Wikipedia:Categories for discussion, and Category:Wikipedia fully protected edit requests, all of which have relatively few active admins or have had relatively few active admins at some point in the past. I tend to dabble a bit everywhere, and will likely do the same as an admin.
The one area I do not intend (at this time) to regularly work in is blocking - if I run into a blatantly disruptive account or IP that needs blocking, I will probably block it, but I don't intend to make that a regular occurrence.
2. What are your best contributions to Wikipedia, and why?
A: This is difficult to answer because I work in many areas that are difficult to compare to each other. If you are looking for significant content improvements, see Magic: The Gathering rules, which I took from having lots of unsourced content to the current state of every single claim being sourced and almost every single claim having a secondary source.
If you are looking for significant tech projects, see Template talk:Tfm/Archive 1#TfM in template documentation (2016), where I fixed a longstanding bug causing Wikipedia:Templates for discussion notices to display incorrectly in some cases, Module:XfD old (2019), which implements the backlog table shown at the top of deletion discussion venues, or the major rewrite I did to Module:Authority control in 2021 (discussed at Template talk:Authority control/Archive 11#Discussion example of the new look after the RfC).
Another way one could answer this question is to look at the 13 barnstars I've earned from other users over the years, listed on my userspace.
Personally, though, I think my best contributions are not any of those but rather the many little things I've done: 18,000 mainspace edits, often to obscure articles no one else is editing, 600 edits to Wikipedia:Help desk and 550 to Wikipedia:Village pump (technical), often providing technical assistance to another user, etc.
3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or have other users caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?
A: First some really old stuff: I did behave disruptively and in hindsight possibly should have been blocked in 2016, and also was a major player in Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/RexxS/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Technical 13/Archive#08 April 2019 and some other silliness from around that time.
Moving on to more recent times, I'm a regular participant in deletion discussions, which naturally involves people disagreeing with me from time to time, and have been in my share of routine content disputes, as my talk page shows. I don't think I've gotten into anything more serious than that recently.
When I get stressed out over something or other, I tend to take a wikibreak for a few days, which happens fairly regularly. This pattern will probably continue as an admin.

You may ask optional questions below. There is a limit of two questions per editor. Multi-part questions disguised as one question, with the intention of evading the limit, are disallowed. Follow-up questions relevant to questions you have already asked are allowed.

Optional question from Barkeep49
4. You call Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/RexxS/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Technical 13/Archive#08 April 2019 "silliness". It's not clear to me what part of all that you find silly nor what you have taken away/learned from that experience. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 16:36, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
A: What I am saying was silly is how that one interaction led to a lot of drama on both sides which wasted a lot of energy, and almost made me quit Wikipedia, but in practice didn't amount to anything in the end. All that was really going on was back in early 2019 was that RexxS and I disagreed over some technical stuff. I probably should have respected that disagreement more and pushed my own point of view less. After the RfA, although I continued doing some of the same cleanups, I tried to reduce my level of interaction with RexxS, and haven't (to my knowledge) gotten into any kind of conflict of that sort since.
Optional question from AirshipJungleman29
5. How do you pronounce your username? Is it "peepeeperi" or "peepeepee-eri" or just "peri" with a really explosive "p sound" or something else?
A: I'm not consistent, and have used several different pronounciations. The name is a corruption of Perry (given name) and is unrelated to "Peppery", if anyone cares.
Optional question from Shushugah
5. Tabs or spaces?
A: As someone who makes regular edits the module namespace, which uses indented code, this actually does have an impact on my Wikipedia edits. When editing modules written my other people, I try to stick to the existing convention. When I write modules from scratch like Module:RfX tally (actually used on this very RfA), then I appear to have used tabs, but I don't really care
Optional question from Shushugah
6. What is the most silly discussion you have participated or witnessed here and how did you engage?
A: I'm tempted to say "responding to this question on this RfA" :P, but in reality it's difficult to beat a meta-discussion about how to title April Fools deletion nominations, to which I suggested an idea that nobody else agreed with. And no, I won't carry out my suggestion if that RfA passes.
Optional question from Willbb234
7. You mentioned on 19 July that you were concerned about a lack of content creation coming up in your RFA. Do you believe that content creation is a good indication of suitability for adminship?
Obviously not.Not necessarily The most important trait of an admin is to know when one knows what one is doing. I believe have experience in the areas I intend to admin in. Perhaps content creation provides experience that would be helpful in closing AfDs, or in blocking people, or in some other areas of adminship, but just as importantly it doesn't provide experience in the technical aspects of adminship where I intend to focus.
Optional question from Reaper Eternal
8. What would you say is your best article? It does not have to be one you started (Lord knows we have enough random articles already!); just an example of one you put significant time into improving.
A: Definitely Magic: The Gathering rules (which I already mentioned in Q2). I have 18,000 mainspace edits, but most of them are small cleanups to large numbers of articles, not large changes to small numbers of articles.
Optional question from Trey Maturin
9. You don't use edit summaries almost a third of the time (getting close to half the time in some months). Why?
A: I would say the biggest reason is either that I am doing an utterly uncontroversial syntax fix, commenting on a discussion (in which case an edit summary doesn't mean much - the reply tool uses "Reply", which is obvious since pretty much every talk page edit is a reply - also note that the edit summary usage tool appears to count edits with only the automatic section summary as having no summary). The other time it happens is when I am doing some sort of mass cleanup, in which I have a habit of going a bit fast and thus not using an edit summary when I probably should. If someone is confused about one of my edits with no summary they are welcome to ask me and I will try to explain what it did and why.
Optional question from Pharaoh of the Wizards
10. You have created 62 articles out of which 42 are deleted can you please explain why ?
A: Because the Xtools deleted pages tool counts deleted mainspace redirects in the "deleted" list, but doesn't count undeleted mainspace redirects in the live list. If you properly include redirects, you see 1362 creations of which 42 were deleted.
Optional question from Floq
11. If you prefer to address my concerns about user category CFD/RFD closures directly in the Neutral section, please feel free. If you're aware of the RFA taboo against disagreeing with commenters directly below, I can't fault that at all, and so here's a place you can do so instead.
A: I can totally understand why you (and others) are concerned about this, and I am willing to agree to stay away from closing contentious user category discussions since, and this is a direct quote from WP:INVOLVED, it's a decision [...] about which I have strong feelings, and will instead participate in them.
Optional question from L235
12. Thank you for standing. This is a followup to Q7, where you wrote that you don't intend to focus on closing AfDs, or [] blocking people, or [] some other areas of adminship where content creation provides experience that would be helpful. As an administrator, you will come across a number of areas in which you can use the tools, even outside of those you originally intend to pursue. Do you intend to refrain from taking actions in areas where content creation is important experience, and how will you determine what those areas are? If you do feel qualified in the future to enter those areas, how will you approach that transition? I also invite you to expand on your answer to Q7 here, if you so desire.
A:


Optional question from Guerillero
13. Have you ever edited from or otherwise had access from any account other than the one currently at RfA? If yes, would you be willing to disclose them?
A: No. But I edited logged out for a while before creating my account.

Discussion

@AirshipJungleman29 - You know, now that you mention it, I'm curious about that too. In my head, I guess I mentally read it as "Peppery". I hope that's been appropriate : ) - jc37 16:57, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose it doesn't matter much in a typewritten environment; however, still, I prefer to adresss people (even in my head) by what they prefer to be called. So with at in mind - and with apologies - I stand corrected. "Perry" it is : ) - jc37 17:05, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please keep discussion constructive and civil. If you are unfamiliar with the nominee, please thoroughly review his contributions before commenting.

Support
  1. Admin without tools. I hope FFF has selected a baton image. Courcelles (talk) 16:35, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support net positive.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 16:36, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. No concerns from where I'm sitting. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:39, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. What do you mean Pppery's not an admin? Whose idea was that? Folly Mox (talk) 16:45, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Support Partofthemachine (talk) 16:45, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  6. Support: why not? — TheresNoTime (talk • they/them) 16:48, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  7. Support: thank you for volunteering! ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 16:59, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  8. Support. Another mop at CfD is sorely needed, and I don't see a reason not to trust Pppery with one. -- Tavix (talk) 17:01, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  9. Support: Don't see a reason not to. ULPS (talk) 17:08, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  10. Support: Some less-than-perfect behavior seven years ago and less than a year into an editor's time on the project is more endearing than worrying. The SPI stuff is unconcerning. Good luck! ~ Pbritti (talk) 17:16, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  11. Support: Excellent understanding of policy and a great gnome. Mdewman6 (talk) 17:27, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  12. Support will be a net positive to the project. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 17:27, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  13. I've heard of him before, and nothing too concerning as yet. Do heed Floq's advice if applicable, however. (EDIT: This support is greatly weakened, however, by the candidate's attitudes towards edit summaries and content creation. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 17:39, 31 July 2023 (UTC)) – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 17:33, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  14. Support - For some reason my memory failed me and I thought they were already an admin. Excellent candidate!--NØ 18:09, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  15. Support: outstanding technical work, excellent behind-the-scenes knowledge, and having the tools will augment their editing. Pppery is already familiar with the tools from MediaWiki. No temperament issues that I can see (if the CfD discussions are the worst of it then it's small potatoes). Edit summary usage is not a valid metric: the point of an edit summary is to explain the non-self-explanatory, not to write one for the sake of filling a blank box.
    I generally like to see content creation, and Magic: The Gathering rules is weak. Many sources are at least usable for uncontroversial content: Paste, Polygon, The Daily Dot, Screen Rant, Game Rant, Comic Book Resources. But I recognise Dot Esports as generally unreliable and there look to be many blog sources. This preprint from arXiv is not good for Wikipedia use (though I've encountered this body of literature before and it's extraordinary). Anyway, in Pppery's case I don't think the tools are going to be used in cases where content creation knowledge would lead to a different decision. So long as Pppery knows where their current strengths lie, I don't see an issue. — Bilorv (talk) 18:29, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
  1. Oppose q7. Willbb234 17:35, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. I'm uncomfortable with the Q7 answer, plus the weird reasons for not using edit summaries (which work, I suppose, as an 'ordinary' editor, but when you're an admin are just... bad practice). And Floq's neutral would be an oppose from me if I'd spotted the pattern myself. Sorry. — Trey Maturin™ 17:44, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  3. (edit conflict) Oppose - The answer to Q7 is a massive whiff. However, one whiffed question shouldn't be reason to oppose a candidate, so I dug deeper into Pppery's contributions, especially his self-identified (in Q8) best article, Magic: The Gathering rules. The primary concern with this article is whether it should even exist per WP:NOTHOWTO. Ignoring that, the sourcing leaves a lot to be desired with citations to places like "oshkoshmagic.com" or "coolstuffinc.com". How are either of those reliable sources? In fact, the majority of this article might as well be cited to the official MTG rulebook, which it largely summarizes. A large number of other sources are simply various people's personal guides on to how to play MTG. These mostly appear to be opinion pieces, which are not strictly reliable sources (see WP:RSOPINION). I don't know if Comic Book Resources (CBR) is considered a reliable source. Ultimately, this oppose boils down to an apparent poor understanding of reliable sources. Like Floquenbeam, I invite Pppery to respond either here or on the talk page if he thinks I am incorrect—I often am! I will not feel badgered. Reaper Eternal (talk) 17:57, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The article has survived several AfDs. Also for the record: I did not add "oshkoshmagic.com" or "coolstuffinc.com" - they were present in the article before my changes. For the rest, you kind of have a point, but I considered the inclusion of only details that can be found in secondary sources to establish due weight and prevent the article from becoming a trivia magnet as many articles on fiction are * Pppery * it has begun... 18:00, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I know you didn't add those two personally, but you did remove the "more sources needed" tag, which generally means that you went through the article and cited it to reliable sources. Reaper Eternal (talk) 18:12, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  4. I largely share Floq's concerns below, which for me is essentially that you'll have supervoting on technical areas of the project that have a content impact since both templates and categories impact the reader. When combined what appears to be a lack of understanding of the central role of reader-facing content on this project and its importance as seen in the reply to question 7 and based on Reaper Eternal's response above, I don't feel comfortable granting access to the admin toolset. If it was just the items Floq raised or just the lack of content understanding, I'd probably sit it out. But combined it really isn't ideal. TonyBallioni (talk) 18:26, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral
  1. I'm not willing to oppose yet, but I do have one concern. Pppery and I have both occasionally been involved with CFDs and RFDs about user categories, and he has pretty strongly held views (opposite to my own strongly held views, or else I probably wouldn't be expressing concern, but I am not complaining about his opinion) that usually do not close in his favor, and often close as "no consensus". He has said multiple times in those discussion that he "is just enforcing the rules" and expressed exasperation with those with differing views. I have no idea if this occurs only in user category discussions, or other areas. I worry that Pppery's "strong urge to put everything into the order that they perceive should exist" (as stated by RexxS in the SPI linked by Pppery above, and as agreed with on the same page by nominator Wmb1058) will result in his closing borderline CFD or RFD discussions in a way that he favors (that is, in a way that he sees as enforcing the rules), rather than interpreting consensus or acknowledging that there is no consensus. I'd welcome anything that would ease my mind about this. Is it only user categories, or does it happen elsewhere? If it's isolated, maybe agreeing to not do user category closes (he would, of course, be more than welcome to keep discussing them; I'm just concerned about his closing them)? I'm not sure what would be best, and I'm not sure what would keep me from opposing, and I'm not sure if I'll even oppose if I'm not happy with the response. But this is a serious worry of mine. By the way, the rule about the candidate not responding to opposes or neutral comments is stupid, and we should abolish it. But I acknowledge that some people frown on it, so Pppery, if you prefer I'll mold this into a question and you can address it there instead. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:16, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Floq, do you have a diff or two as an example? Speaking for myself it would be helpful as a person yet to vote and I also quite imagine it would be easier for Pppery to respond (whether here or in questions) to something specific. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 17:19, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I'll dig a few examples up. I'm going to have to hunt for them. Floquenbeam (talk) 17:21, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Probably a discussion for elsewhere. but I wholly agree with your sentiment about commenting - a candidate should be able to comment where-ever the heck they want in their RfA. This process gets cotentious enough without adding gag rules. - jc37 17:31, 31 July 2023 (UTC) [reply]
    Tangentially related, but I have no qualms about the taboo against candidates directly responding to the "peanut gallery" – it enforces a desirable sense of purdah and "gag rules" tend to make the process less, rather than more, contentious. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 17:35, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Here are 4, all nominated on 1 April 2022:
    Two where others proposed deletion:
    A more recent one:
    --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:38, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Is that last one the correct link? I'm not finding it. ULPS (talk) 17:42, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Sigh. No, it's not the right link. I'm an idiot. hang on... Floquenbeam (talk) 17:44, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I assume you are looking for Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 May 11#Category:Abusive, mean, petty Wikipedians * Pppery * it has begun... 17:45, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    thank you, cutting and pasting too quickly. I've changed the original to make it easier on others. Floquenbeam (talk) 17:47, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    To be clearer on what I think I'm looking for: there is an admin in several of those discussions (who I won't drag into this) who is, if anything, even more vehement than Pppery about these categories. But they have never to my knowledge closed a contentious user category discussion, so I have no concerns about them being an admin. An agreement from Pppery to do the same would go a long way in easing my mind. Floquenbeam (talk) 17:52, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  2. I have long gone back and forth over Pppery's suitability as an admin and have been quietly waiting for the notice to pop up (because I think RFA is worth a shot for him). As Floquenbeam says, Pppery is a person with strong views which he also expresses at TFD in addition to the others. I have observed a general mellowing since he came on to the scene A While Ago and what I think is general adjustment toward "it's not the end of the world if the discussion doesn't end the way I want", which is a positive quality (and about where I'm at also). I tend to agree more rather than less with his opinions there these days, and when I don't I can see where he's coming from. Izno (talk) 17:38, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
General comments


The above adminship discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the talk page of either this nomination or the nominated user). No further edits should be made to this page.


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