Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch peer review

This peer review discussion is closed.

"I think it does need a peer review if you're planning to take it further"

— ProtoDrake

Plans for FA. Help me out here, fellas. Panini!^🥪 15:00, 24 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

STANDARD NOTE: I have added this PR to the Template:FAC peer review sidebar to get quicker and more responses. When this PR is closed, please remove it from the list. Also, consider adding the sidebar to your userpage to help others discover pre-FAC PRs, and please review other articles in that template. Thanks! Z1720 (talk) 17:55, 24 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Side note: I appreciate that you have already begun commenting on other PRs. Z1720 (talk) 17:55, 24 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Returning the favor, and also just happy to help out. Will work through this bit by bit. Feel free to ping me if there's a lapse of more then a few days. Shooterwalker (talk) 20:32, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Gameplay

• I really appreciate the clear statement of genre up front.

• Thanks! It took three months to decide.

• "reiterating previous gameplay in Paper Mario: Sticker Star." --> This is sort of a mouthful. "...similar to Paper Mario: Sticker Star" would be fine. If you're trying to load it with info, it might be better as a stand-alone sentence: "This follows the template of the previous entry in the series, Paper Mario: Sticker Star."

• Sentenced

• It's not the worst thing to switch between "stages" and "levels", but it helps to be consistent. I might recommend "stage", just because it won't be confused with an RPG levelling system.

• I chose to use stage.

• "Players traverse levels through a world map containing levels" -> the sentences is a little unclear, and the use of levels twice feels awkward. Maybe: "The player can access different stages through a world map."

• Changed

• "There are multiple Mini Paint Stars in some levels." -> "Some stages contain multiple Mini Paint Stars"

• Changed

• "and consult Huey, Mario's ally, for assistance." -> is this implied by the NPCs?

• Huey has a special role that NPCs don't fulfill where I feel "ally" helps justify. In the game, Huey is the other character that is by Mario's side the entire time, in comparison to other NPCs who only fill in the environment.

• "Paint is required to use the hammer," -> "The hammer uses Mario's supply of paint, which..." (makes it clearer, and also connects paint to color, instead of hammer to color.)

• Changed

• "When encountering an enemy while exploring, the player will enter a battle sequence." -> "While exploring, the player will trigger a battle sequence when they encounter an enemy."

• Changed

• "Cards can be used to attack enemies, prevent damage, or heal Mario, and can be painted to increase their strength.[7] They range from basic jump and hammer attacks to 'Thing' cards which resemble real-world objects, such as a fire extinguisher.[8]" -> You're sort of jumping back and forth between ideas here. Maybe focus on the types of attacks and abilities first, and then the upgrades after / later.

• Oh! This isn't a copy-paste solution. Let me think for one second...

• "Enemy attacks cause the player to take damage. If the player loses all their HP, it will result in a game over." -> "Enemy attacks will damage Mario, and the game is over once Mario loses all of his health." (better flow, less technical)

• De-technicalized

• "the player returns to the level and is rewarded with a random assortment of coins, cards, paint, and hammer scraps" -> I realize what you mean on a few read throughs, but the idea of returning to the level for rewards sounds confusing unless you can really keep the encounter system in context. Try something like "If the player defeats all the enemies in the encounter"... hard not to make this wordy.

• Changed

Plot

• Is Toad the island, or is the letter from Toad?

• Filled in the plot hole

• "He asks Mario to help recover them, to which he agrees." -> "Mario agrees to help recover the Big Paint Stars"

• See, I don't understand why I use "to which" and "of which" so often. It doesn't even sound good.

• "and fighting various enemies" -> (full stop) ". Mario also fights various enemies, ..."

• Stopped

• "each one incrementally reveal their memories" -> "each one incrementally reveals their memories"
• Does Luigi just show up? Why later?

• Luigi is often ridiculed in the Paper Mario series, and never plays an "important" role. In The Origami King, his collectible description reads, "Known for his high jump and literally nothing else", for reference.

• I'd prefer a period to a semi-colon here.

• Full-stopped, and I also specified the factory in more detail while I was at it.

Development

• Same thing about this semi-colon. I don't think it does anything that a period couldn't do.

• Stopped, waited a minute, filled my cup, put some liquor in it.

• "The combat system was developed to create controls only possible on the Wii U" -> "The combat system was developed to take advantage of the unique controls on the Wii U touchscreen."

• Touched!

• "Although the gamepad was much more advanced" -> it's not clear how this is connected to single player vs multi player, and the rest of the sentence is an easier and clearer read without this

• De-singled, no longer ready to mingle

• "although he noted paint capacity changed over time as the player collected hammer scraps and was thus a form of 'leveling'." -> "with most of the character upgrades focused on increased paint capacity."

• Changed

• The Iwata quote might read better as a quick summary instead of a direct quote.

• CliffNoted

• "One of the main implementations was changing the color of Toads to represent a personality." -> "This led the team to create multiple Toads with multiple color schemes, to represent their different personalities."

• Changed

• I think the retrospective section feels a little out of sequence, and should be integrated into the rest of the development section. If the development section feels long or in need of some organization, I'd recommend pulling the release timing into its own section, just before the reception.

Release

• I'd even double-down on the last idea, now that I see the pre-release reception. I recommend creating a "Marketing and release" section that combines some of the "Pre-release" facts with the release info from the last section. I don't think you want to overstate the reception by giving individual reviewers too much air time. Rather, you want to tell the story of the game. They developed it. They got ready to roll it out and release it, and people reacted in complicated ways. End the section with Nintendo's reaction to peoples' questions and criticisms, rather than creating a section focused on how journalists reacted to a marketing announcement.

Reception

• "the following month having sold 37,093 copies" -> There's a simpler way to say this that is also less confusing. "and 37,093 copies in the first month."
• "Reviewers criticized the combat system[7][1][19] and" -> "Reviewers were more critical of the combat system[7][1][19], as well as"
• I am not sure all the quotes add that much. I'd really decide which ones add more clarity and flow, and which could be replaced with summaries. (E.g.: "X praised the environment and music", "Y praised the game's resemblance to real art supplies", etc.)
• Some of the ideas introduced in this section might make more sense if they were included in the gameplay section – the Thing cards and the Roshambo templates in particular. Alternatively, this might be too specific for a summary style article, and you could try to make a general combat about frustrating or imbalanced abilities.

Overall

• I focused on the readability of the prose. We can come back to the lead afterwards. But that should be a good start. I know reviews focus more on things to change than things that are good, and there's a lot of good here. With some work this could easily become a featured article. Shooterwalker (talk) 21:43, 26 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies for the delay - I've had no internet access at home for the past couple of days! I'll leave my comments tomorrow. ♦ jaguar 22:09, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• "published by Nintendo for the Wii U console" - I feel that 'console' is always redundant, but it's entirely up to you

• I'll keep it in, from a personal standpoint. I'll see if it survives FAC.

• "It is the fifth installment in the Paper Mario series, and is part of the larger Mario franchise" - would be better condensed as It is the fifth installment in the Paper Mario series, a part of the larger Mario franchise or even a sub-series of the Mario franchise

• Changed

• The lead contains nothing to very little on gameplay (ie. how the game is played). A quick overview on core aspects of gameplay would be helpful - those unfamiliar with the franchise will not necessarily know that Paper Mario is laden with paper-like aesthetics

• Ah, good catch! I didn't even notice that I left it out.

• Every sentence of the lead's second paragraph begins with 'the'

• Un-the-ed

• "...for continuing the genre format introduced in Sticker Star" - this is not linked

• I think it was brought up in an earlier paragraph, which would also explain the shortened title, but was later removed. I've relinked it here.

• "The game was followed with Paper Mario: The Origami King in 2020" - might be worth mentioning that this is a Nintendo Switch release

• Switched it up a bit

• The third sentence in the development and release section is very long and needs to be split

• Organised a bit

• "...as the Mario franchise's role-playing series; this was confirmed by Tabata at E3 2016" - who is Tabata? She is not introduced here, rather she is introduced later on in the Design and characters subsection

• Nobody has any idea who Tabata is. She showed up at E3 2016, walked into the VIP room, and began an interview as if she was the co-producer. Kensuke Tanabe was unsettled but decided that she was knowledgeable enough to be hired. She isn't paid in money, rather through food and acknowledgment of her good work. She allegedly clocks out of the building, but some employees reported her sleeping in the local dumpster and often rummaging around other employees' offices. When development concluded, she disappeared without a trace. Some rumors state that she still camps out by the local 7-11, but others report she walked to Kodiak, Alaska, where she allegedly lives to this day.

• "Ikuno was inspired by his children having fun while coloring, as well as their new painting hobby" - can be condensed to Ikuno was inspired by watching his children having fun while coloring and painting
• "By July 2020, the game had sold 63,000 copies in Japan" - I'd rephrase to By July 2020, Japanese sales totalled to 63,000 to quell repetition

• Unrepeated

• I note that the reception section is somewhat on short side. There are a total of 11 reviews; can they be fleshed out? FAC reviewers will likely comment on comprehensibility

• Yeah, yeah, I know. I plan on expanding it at least two times over, I'm just really dreading it. I wish there was another user out there that loves writing reception sections but hates writing development, so we can simply turn to each other and quid pro quo. But alas, I'll suffer.

• "and the removal of an experience point (XP) system" - although it is a common term, 'XP' is not mentioned anywhere in the article's body so its abbreviation should be removed here
• "Other critics described the system as slow and simplistic" - consider rephrasing this to the combat system as I lost track of what was being criticised here
• " Polygon’s Caty McCarthy said it “felt like a chore”[8] while Alex Jones of GamesRadar" - missing comma

Those were all the things which jumped out at me, though overall this article is solid. I would strongly recommend fleshing out the lead and reception sections; FAC reviewers will certainly be checking the game's comprehensibility. The sources are all properly formatted and the gameplay section is sound. I wouldn't see this being held back at FAC if some more detail was added throughout. Good job and sorry it took me so long to get here. See you at the FAC! ♦ jaguar 22:28, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Jaguar, I've resolved the bulk of your comments and will complete the bigger ones in the near future. Panini!^🥪 14:53, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Good job on the article. It's in good shape. Here are some ideas to polish it up. I haven't read other's comments so I apologize if I repeat anything.

Lead

• Second sentence - maybe clarify the series relation: "...the Paper Mario series, which is part of the larger..."

• Specified

• Second paragraph, last sentence - I recommend switching to active voice: "Nintendo released the game worldwide in October 2016."

Activated

• Third paragraph, third sentence - remove "also". I think this is being used as a conjunction to contrast the praise. If that's the case, I recommend instead adding a more clear conjunction at the beginning: "However (or conversely), the combat system and lack of character variety were criticized."

• I went with "conversely", as I used "however" in the sentence prior.

Gameplay

• Image captions - some clarification for the layman
  • 1st image: "Mario (center) strikes a colorless flower with his paint hammer. In the top left is a paint meter display, showing how much paint is available."
  • 2nd image: "Mario (left) in the middle of combat. In the top left are cards that pre-determine how Mario will attack the four enemies (center and right)."

• I like these. Thank you!

• I saw several instances of ", and". I believe commas should normally precede "and" in these cases if you are combining two independent clauses. Independent clauses are completed sentences on their own. In the below examples, I think it would be better if you remove the comma (noted in red font with a strike through) or add some words to the second clause to make it independent.
  • "The player controls a two-dimensional version of Mario using the Wii U GamePad, and explores a paper-craft world designed to look like craft materials."
  • "The hammer uses Mario's supply of paint, and comes in red, blue, and yellow varieties..."
    • (Not sure about this because I didn't play the game) if the paint (and not the hammer) is what comes in different varieties, I would change the "and" to "which": "...supply of paint, which comes in red, blue, and yellow..."

• Yes, it's the paint, and I see the confusion.

• • "Cards can be used to attack enemies, and can be painted to increase their strength."
  • For reference, this is an example of a sentence that has two independent clauses (i.e., the comma is fine and no change is needed).
    • "Enemy attacks will damage Mario, and the game is over once Mario loses all of his health."
• "Additional" seems redundant with "new" here: "Players can use an additional new ability called the..."

• Removed

• The two instances of "or" here can come across as confusing, making the sentence harder to read: "the player's possible attacks are represented by cards the player can either collect from stages or defeated enemies, or purchase from shops with the in-game currency of coins."
  • I'll defer to a better writer, but I think the first "or" should be "and": "...stages and defeated enemies..."
  • If not changing to "and", then I would change the order: "...can either purchase from shops with the in-game currency of coins or collect from stages or defeated enemies."
• Either add comma before "which" or change "which" to "that": "They range from basic jump and hammer attacks to 'Thing' cards which resemble real-world objects..."

• That'd

Plot

• Remove comma for clarity - "Mario also fights various enemies, including the Koopalings, who serve as bosses.". Since commas can be used to insert additional information in the middle of a sentence, this could be read as "Mario also fights various enemies who serve as bosses", which I don't think was the intent.
• Awkward sentence: "The duo defeat Black Bowser, and rescue Peach, and the factory's destruction causes the castle to fall apart."
  • Not sure what would be a better alternative.
  • At least remove the first comma after "Bowser".
  • maybe switch the second ", and" to a semicolon? - "The duo defeat Black Bowser and rescue Peach; the factory's destruction causes the castle to fall apart."

• I actually read this after I made a decision to change it, after reading only the first part; turns out, I had the same idea!

• I think "fulfilled" would be more a precise word here: "In a post-credits scene, if the player has filled certain requirements..."

• I think this was just an accident.

Development and release

• Awkward sentence: "The game's art style was achieved by using different types and textures of paper for different environments, and purchased and reviewed different types of paper to determine which style expressed paper craft the most."
  • It seems like some words are missing in the second half of the sentence. "the staff purchased and reviewed..." or "the developers purchased and reviewed..."?
  • If words are missing, I recommend splitting the independent clauses after adding any missing words: "...of paper for different environments. The developers purchased..."

• It might have just been left-out words.

• Another awkward sentence: "Taro Kudo was the lead writer; Tabata showed pride in his work, stating how he was good at coming up with jokes and story design, and how during play testing "there really were people who cried at the end"."
  • I think "expressed" would be a more precise word instead of "showed".
  • I'm not sure who the "his" refers to.
    • If it refers to Kudo, change it to "Kudo" to avoid confusion.
    • If it refers to Tabata (which I don't think based on the next part), maybe get rid of the semicolon.
  • The last portion about play testing seems tacked on. Maybe split it off into a separate sentence? "Tabata also noted that during play testing "there really were..."
• Sentence doesn't flow as well: "The developers thought that using the gamepad to sort through cards and fling them on screen was fun, so it was implemented."
  • Maybe: "The developers implement player interaction between the gamepad and a television screen because they thought that sorting through cards on the gamepad and using touch controls to fling them onto a screen was fun."
  • If my suggestion is too wordy, remove "because" and split it into two separate sentences.

• I changed "fun" to "entertaining" while I was at it, because "fun" sounds unintentionally passive-aggressive (some critics didn't like this feature).

• Remove a comma: "This led the team to create multiple Toads with multiple color schemes, to represent their different personalities."

• Does the lack of commas, therefore, make you a commist? Communist?

Reception

• A subsection (Critical reviews) seems redundant when there is only one subsection. I would remove the subsection heading.
  • Side note if you later add another subsection - since the review score table applies solely to the information in the critical review section, it should be moved directly underneath the subsection title. The change may appear frivolous, but this is important for screen readers and reader-friendly views that remove styling. (If you're removing the subsection heading, this is a moot point right now though.)
• For Dan Ryckert's review, the quote seems a little disjointed. Maybe connect it to the previous sentence with a semicolon?
  • "...which can be used to buy more cards; "with that system in place..."

• ;)'d

Thanks for your work on this article. I hope my comments are helpful. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 22:16, 10 February 2022 (UTC))[reply]

Thank you for your comments, Guyinblack25! I will address them in the near future. Panini!^🥪 14:13, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• File:Paper Mario Color Splash.jpg, File:Paper Mario Color Splash Gameplay.jpeg, and File:Paper Mario Color Splash Combat.jpeg all have appropriate FUR's

• Glad to know these images are indeed mammals.

• No copyright concerns with File:Kensuke Tanabe at E3 2013 crop 2.jpg
• Since there isn't any evidence suggesting otherwise, I'll assume good faith that File:Wii U Console and Gamepad.jpg is indeed the uploader's own work.
• Use double-quotation marks (") instead of single-quotation marks (') for "Thing" when talking about such cards within "Gameplay"

• Doubled down

• It's pointless to have a "Critical reviews" subheading under "Reception" when there's no other subsections
• Contrary to what placing sales in "Reception" implies, how many copies a game sold is a separate matter altogether from whether critics liked it. You'd be better off putting that under "Marketing and release", especially when that discusses players downloading this when it became available earlier than intended and how they could keep such copies. On that note, is it known how many downloads came ahead of the scheduled date?
• Use straight quotation marks ("") instead of curly ones (“”) per MOS:CURLY
• "Several" is a vague number that's best avoided, especially whenever it's possible to be more specific

The page doesn't seem too far off from being FA-worthy. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 01:15, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]