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• A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for April 2009.

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because it was prematurely listed at WP:FLC. I've discussed it with the nominator and am moving it to Peer review.

Thanks, Matthewedwards :  Chat  06:28, 30 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because after recreating the list tables, rewriting and expanding the lead paragraph, and adding all citations, I feel that this list meets all of the qualities needed in a Featured List. I'm dedicated to making this the best list page possible, so I will attempt to make any necessary revisions noted here that would help improve the page. Aatrek (talk) 17:31, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments:

• May I suggest moving this to WP:PR instead, and treating my following statements as a Peer review? IMO, it's not ready for FLC yet.
• DVD image fails WP:NFCC#8
• Just a question, not a "go and do this", but why isn't ((episode list)) used? I can't remember the last FL episode list that doesn't use it
• Got any references for the stardates?
• Production order section is pretty redundant, since you've given the production number of each episode.
• Ref 11 does not back up the statement that episodes were syndicated "ordered by production number (starting with "Where No Man Has Gone Before", ending with "Turnabout Intruder", and not including "The Cage")"
• original pilot episode, "The Cage." episode titles should not be italicised, and the punctuation is in the wrong place
• original DVD -- I expected this to point to an article or section about ST:TOS DVD releases, not the article about DVDs. Try not to overlink common terms
• Don't introduce the page with "This is a list of...", Dog doesn't begin "This is an article about dogs"
• List is very US-centric. See WP:BIAS. Do you have broadcast/airdate information for other countries?
• Info about new media releases such as iTunes or web streaming would be good
• Plot Summaries do not summarise. They tease. Saying that, they shouldn't be scene-by-scene commentaries either.
• WP:Lead is supposed to summarise the rest of the article, but other than a box at the top of the page, there is nothing else WRT to VHS/DVD releases. In fact, VHS releases aren't even mentioned.
• Not a thing on reception, and not a single Secondary source -- why?

Matthewedwards :  Chat  06:55, 29 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Response:

• Regarding sources: Wouldn't the episodes be primary sources? Should I just use a somebody else's episode list for the airdates, stardates, etc. to satisfy the WP:PSTS requirements?

• Episodes can be used as sources for the plot. They can also be used to source the writers and directors, if mentioned in credits on-screen, but it's still better to find book or web sources. Nothing about an episode tells you when it was broadcast, so airdates do need a reference. If the ST website has that, that's fine, but a secondary source, such as TV Guide would also help. Take a look at List of 24 episodes, List of The O.C. episodes, List of The Office (US TV series) episodes -- they're some of the most recent ones. Matthewedwards :  Chat 

• Production order was discussed on the Talk page, since I can't work out a sortable episode list. Do you think it's best to just dump that second set of lists?

• It might be. It's just repeating the same information, albeit in a different order. I think if you use ((episode list)) you can make the tables sortable without messing up the layout WRT summaries. Matthewedwards :  Chat 

• Matt is kind of right. There is a sortable version of ((episode list)) called ((S-Episode list)). However, it is little known so example of it is not great (List of Chaotic episodes). There is an example, List of The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya episodes, that uses a similar template and might give you a better idea of what is possible. Personally, I think it might be easier to just use the normal ((episode list)) and scrap those production order tables at the bottom. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 21:06, 29 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• I have no information on foreign airdates that I can find, anyway. Other US TV lists I look at have the US airdates only (like this FL).

• Yeah, they usually only give the home county's airdates in the table (List of Degrassi: The Next Generation episodes is an exception because some episodes actually aired in America before they did in their native Canada. However, in the Lede you could say that it has been broadcast in xx number of countries. BBC2 used to air it in the UK, in the 90s, then I think Channel 4 did around 2005. I have no idea who the first boradcaster was, though. Matthewedwards :  Chat 

• "Reception" - how much should I be duplicating from the actual show page?

• Just a paragraph or so. What were the average ratings? What major awards has it won? Thant ind of stuff.

• I'm pretty sure that I can't use another wiki (like http://memory-alpha.org) as a source, right?

Aatrek (talk) 13:12, 29 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Right, nope. Matthewedwards :  Chat 

Hope my comments help you, Matthewedwards :  Chat  19:03, 29 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

With the best will in the world, I'd strongly suggest withdrawing it and going to peer review first. There are a few common errors, like references come after punctuation, and the first sentence. Also things like episode summaries need to be worked on, as well as finding missing references for the remastered airdates, DVD release dates. Some things like the Original Airdates are actually referenced (ref 2), but it is not obvious that this info is referenced. You also mention VHS in the "Production order" section, do we have release dates for the videos too? You have made a very promising start but the changes required are too much for the duration of an FLC. Hopefully, you will take this as constructive criticism. You have done very well, but I'd highly advise getting some more experienced eyes to iron out any remaining problems at peer review, before attempting featured list status. If you wish to withdraw, just state so here or tell Matt. Best of luck, Rambo's Revenge (talk) 13:56, 29 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Go ahead and withdraw from FLC, I'll work on this some more. Thanks for the advice. Aatrek (talk) 13:58, 29 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've made a bunch of changes; any thoughts? Aatrek (talk) 12:55, 2 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]