The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 23:54, 3 October 2009 [1].

Battle of the Alamo[edit]

Nominator(s): Karanacs (talk) 16:01, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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Of all the articles I have worked on, I am most proud of this one. I originally intended to complete the article by April 2008, but the sheer amount of research necessary pushed the date out just a bit ;) The Battle of the Alamo is probably the most famous event in Texas history, and I suspect most people have at least heard of it. For this article I consulted both the first full-length book written about the battle as well as the most recent research available plus lots of what was written in between. It amazed me to see how much of what I learned in school was inaccurate or POV. Please put aside any preconceptions you might have of what happened and enjoy this comprehensive overview of what actually occurred. Much thanks to User:Awadewit, User:Ealdgyth and User:Oldag07 for their very helpful comments in the October peer review. This is a long article, so thank you in advance to all reviewers who make their way through it. Karanacs (talk) 16:01, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sources, links, dabs All fine. A shining example to all, boss. RB88 (T) 17:04, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've uploaded a new version and added the source information. Thank you. Karanacs (talk) 19:18, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It looks so good, I am likely to support, but have not gotten past the LEAD yet.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 16:50, 18 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Tweaks needed
Thank you, Modernist. Tony, I don't usually edit on the weekends (beginning Friday afternoon), and it often takes me all day Monday to catch up on my watchlist. I promise I wasn't ignoring you! Karanacs (talk) 17:30, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support Bernstein2291 (Talk • Contributions • Sign Here) 01:15, 18 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please keep in mind that FAC isn't a vote, and generally rationales are expected to accompany votes. Thanks, –Juliancolton | Talk 05:09, 18 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Alamo texas.jpg is missing alt text.
  • The alt text for File:Fall-of-the-alamo-gentilz 1844.jpg lacks what I see as the essence or gist of that image, which is the feeling of low walls in a shallow valley overlooked by rolling hills. That essence isn't described (and isn't really needed) in the adjacent text; could you please add it to the alt text?
  • Generally speaking alt text should not contain proper names as they cannot be verified by a non-expert who's looking only at the image, and anyway they're just repeating what's in the caption. Could you please reword/remove the following proper names from the alt text: "Long Barracks"; and "Mexican" and "Texian" in the phrase "dead Mexican and Texian soldiers".
Eubulides (talk) 18:35, 18 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the review - I am still learning how to write alt text and it is much harder than it seems. I've made the updates you requested. Karanacs (talk) 18:50, 18 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks again, it looks good now. (For me, writing alt text was a bit like riding a bicycle: there was an initial learning curve that was intimidating, but now that I'm over the hump it usually goes pretty smoothly.) Eubulides (talk) 19:17, 18 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Good question. Santa Anna was a general who became president and, while in office, led the army against Texas. I've added the date of the revocation of the Constitution to put that in better context, but I'm not sure how to clarify Santa Anna's roles better. I could add a footnote mentioning his previous military service? Do you have a better suggestion on how to make it clearer? Thanks! Karanacs (talk) 21:03, 18 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I added President of Mexico to the lead, and thanks for adding the 1835 date. I'm still reading the rest...Modernist (talk) 00:14, 19 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Karanacs (talk) 17:39, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Here's another source, from the American Film Institute. According to the AFI and the Disney book, the miniseries itself is simply called "Davy Crockett". Zagalejo^^^ 08:19, 20 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Provisional support Support

("Provisional support" just means that I haven't read the entire article yet, but like what I've read.)

The main text (post-lead) is nicely done. It has enough details to keep us on our toes and the narrative flows nicely. However, the lead will likely be confusing to readers unfamiliar with the history. One reason for this, of course, is that San Antonio, in March 1836, was in an unsettled time (no pun intended). It was formally still in Mexican Texas, but one from which all Mexicans had been driven out in December 1835. (Britannica, for example, begins its narrative in 1835 and it can then proceed in a linear fashion.) In a lead the author has to mention the pivotal event first and this creates a bit of a dilemma, if they are also trying to be sensitive to the needs of unversed readers. I've mentioned some of these things in the detailed comments, Talk:Battle_of_the_Alamo#F.26f.27s_detailed_FAC_comments_on_the_text, I've just left on the article's talk page.

Could we also have a higher resolution map or plan of Alamo? There is one hi-res one at the Texas State Legislature Web Site. Not sure, though, if it is old enough to be uploaded as PD-US-1923. The author McArdle (gifted the collection in 1927), but the sketch was very probably done much earlier. It has the Long Barracks, the Low Barracks, and the palisades clearly marked. Regards, Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:35, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Fowler, I'll work my way through your prose suggestions soon. The McArdle collection is PD (he died before 1923). I saw that drawing, but I thought it was pretty messy (I can't read most of the handwriting) and didn't know if it would help. Let me think about whether I can create a custom diagram based on that (images are not my strength). Karanacs (talk) 14:14, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've now added my remaining comments on the article's talk page. Changing to support. Congratulations on writing an informative and enjoyable article. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:46, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've implemented many of Fowler's suggestions, as noted on the article talk page and his talk page. Karanacs (talk) 14:43, 2 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The list of defenders article needs much, much work. I started on it ages ago and got distracted. I am intending at some point to attempt to bring that to featured list quality, but not any time soon. In response to your post, though, I scanned the list just now, and I suspect that at most there are two individuals who don't have their own articles and may justify them (one of those Anthony Wolf, has had the article previously deleted; as for the other, William Ward, I'm not sure if this is the same man as William Ward (soldier)- more research is needed). As far as I know, the template is as comprehensive as it should be - I chose the most well-known individuals to list, not all who have individual articles. Karanacs (talk) 16:30, 28 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. My only concern was to make sure that the list was accurate: the rest can wait of course. As for the template, I think a link to List of Alamo defenders or to Category:Alamo defenders would be a meaningful addition for readers. I just compared the bluelinks on the list with the contents of the category and added the category to George Washington Cottle and Isaac Millsaps. I also found three slightly problematic cases but since I have no expertise on the subject I'll leave you to decide how to resolve them. One interesting case is Moses Rose who is included in the category but not in the list. It's a tricky situation since he apparently left the battle but he might need to be added to the list. The same sort of problem applies to Juan Seguín who appears in the category but not in the list. As for George C. Kimbell, there's currently a separate article but it should perhaps be replaced by a redirect. Pichpich (talk) 19:12, 28 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The list of defenders is linked from the template; it is shown as "Defenders" in the left column; a few of the more notable people are listed to the right. The list is not complete or entirely accurate at this point. As you mention, several of the survivors have been omitted, and I believe that others who died during the battle are also omitted. There has been a lot of relatively recent research on who was actually at the Alamo, and I haven't finished reading enough of it to go back to this article. Karanacs (talk) 19:17, 28 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. (By the way, none of the above should be taken as an opposition to FA status for the article) Pichpich (talk) 19:31, 28 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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