2023 World Snooker Championship

2023 World Snooker Championship (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

• Featured article candidates/2023 World Snooker Championship/archive1
• Featured article candidates/2023 World Snooker Championship/archive2

Nominator(s): Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:00, 8 April 2024 (UTC), HurricaneHiggins[reply]

This article is about last year's World Championship. The last FAC failed for inactivity, rather than quality. Let me know what you think! Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:00, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from BennyOnTheLoose

(Note: my alleged contribution to the article results from having run IABot on it, and a co-ordinator confirmed at the previous nomination that I'm OK to express an opinion. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:55, 8 April 2024 (UTC))[reply]

• Most of my comments from the first nomination have been addressed in edits by HurricaneHiggins, but the sources cited for Main draw still don't verify the dates of matches, or the details of the final (referee, frame scores, breaks).

I did some spot checks on the Third qualification round section and found the following issues. This suggests to me that some background knowledge, rather that just the cited sources, has been used:

• "The 2006 champion Graeme Dott reached the final round with a 10–6 victory over Andy Hicks. From 7–9 behind against John Astley, world number 21 Anthony McGill made breaks of 136 and 98 to force a deciding frame, which he won." seems to be uncited. Ref 53 only covers the Thepchaiya Un-Nooh/Mark Joyce match. Maybe refs 54 and 55 need to be move or re-used.
  • Aye, it was in 54. I have moved it.Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:45, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "former world seniors champion David Lilley2 - "former world seniors champion" not verified by cited source
• "Two-time semi-finalist Stephen Maguire2 - "Two-time semi-finalist" not verified by cited source
• "Northern Irish player Jordan Brown" - "Northern Irish" not verified by cited source
• "2023 German Masters runner-up Tom Ford" - "2023 German Masters runner-up" not verified by cited source
• "Stevens defeated fellow Welsh player Jamie Clarke" - nationalities are not verified by cited source
• "2022 Crucible debutant Ashley Hugill." - "2022 Crucible debutant" not verified by cited source
• "Pang Junxu, runner-up at the previous month's 2023 WST Classic" - "runner-up at the previous month's 2023 WST Classic" not verified by cited source
  • I can see that having these colour bits could be seen as not supported by the sources, I'm happy to take them out. I think there are some pieces where it's worth stating something about the person, why the match matters, etc. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:54, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I've gone through this section and removed some fluff. See if you think that is better. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:23, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Hi BennyOnTheLoose, I was wondering if you felt in a position to either support or oppose this nomination? Obviously, neither is obligatory. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:17, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Thanks for the ping, Gog the Mild. I'll have a look at another section. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 08:34, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Second para of First round section

• "The 2023 German Masters champion Ali Carter faced Welsh debutant Jones. Carter made a 143 total clearance in frame five, but Jones won the first session 5–4 and went on to clinch the match 10–6" - not supported by cited source.
• "Carter called the loss "a disappointing end to a good season" - not supported by cited source.
• "Making his 25th Crucible appearance, three-time champion Mark Williams faced Jimmy Robertson, who had lost in the first round on each of his four previous Crucible appearances." - not supported by cited source.

Third para of First round section

• "Mark Allen, who had won ranking titles during the season at the 2022 Northern Ireland Open, the 2022 UK Championship, and the 2023 World Grand Prix, won the first five frames against debutant Fan. Although Fan won the next three with breaks including 122 and 110, Allen took the last of the session to lead 6–3" - not supported by cited source.
• "who had won his first ranking title earlier that season at the 2022 Scottish Open" - "first ranking title" not supported by cited source.
• "Wilson said afterwards that Slessor's comeback had made the scoreline "too close for comfort." - not supported by cited source.

I'm not sure what the issue is, but I request that the nominators check the text to sources. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:05, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @BennyOnTheLoose, I did a spot-check on your last example. It appears that the article was archived at an intermediate point before World Snooker added additional details and quotes. They will often publish a preliminary version of a story with "more to come" and it seems that this was archived, rather than the final version. This is the full version of the article, with Wilson's "too close for comfort" quote about Slessor's comeback included: https://web.archive.org/web/20230423094637/https://wst.tv/wilson-wins-north-east-derby/ I'm not sure how to fix this, especially since the links are to the old version of the WST website before its redesign, which broke a lot of the links. HurricaneHiggins (talk) 11:11, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Similarly, here's the full version of the Mark Allen/Fan Zhengyi match report, which verifies the material you quoted: https://web.archive.org/web/20230609114338/https://wst.tv/vafaei-stirs-up-osullivan-clash/ Same issue as the above, where the archived version of article is the preliminary version, not the final version. HurricaneHiggins (talk) 11:22, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's rather awkward. Gog the Mild any advice for this situation? Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:34, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not my speciality area and I am obviously playing the role of Mr Stupid here, but I am not sure why a cite cannot be replaced with one which actually supports the text. I am dissuaded from attempting it myself by your joint expression that it is trickier than that. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:33, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks @Gog the Mild. I'm sure it would be possible to go through the article and replace all the URLs manually, but my concern is that if someone runs IABot again, the URLs will all be auto-replaced by the wrong ones. But I'm no expert on this either. @Lee Vilenski, would love to know your opinion. HurricaneHiggins (talk) 21:42, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

IABot archives as close to the access-date as possible if I recall correctly. This is a real issue on news websites which usurp URLs with different info. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 22:04, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So, @BennyOnTheLoose, @Lee Vilenski, @Gog the Mild, we have a few interlocking issues here. First, the WST website featured a lot of detail, information, & quotes from the tournament that are not found elsewhere. Second, the WST site was redesigned & relaunched in early 2024, in such a manner that old URLs no longer work, and so we have to rely on archived sources. Third, when it comes to these archived URLs, IABot defaults to the earliest archived version of an article — in this case, preliminary versions that contain only skeletal info. This implies that replacing URLs manually will produce only a temporary fix, as they will be reverted the next time someone runs IABot again. As the person who wrote most of the prose, I can vouch for the fact that all of the information in the article was correctly and fully sourced at the time it was written — and the archived sources still exist. I just don't know how we can get around the issues above. HurricaneHiggins (talk) 09:45, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Right, I see. Thanks for the explanation. Sourcing information can always be changed manually post-FAC; I don't know that we can legislate for that. But can we not use ((nobots)), ((bots|deny=<botlist>)) or ((bots|deny=all)), see Template:Bots? Gog the Mild (talk) 09:58, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, @Gog the Mild. That sounds like a potential solution, if we can turn off the automatic changing of URLs. I'd probably need someone else to implement that properly, though, as I'm not the most technical minded contributor. I typically focus on writing! HurricaneHiggins (talk) 10:37, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My adding <nobots> may have resolved it. Ideally someone needs to test that. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:15, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can confirm, error is " Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:38, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

• Suggest adding alt text

• File:Cazoo_World_Snooker_Championship_logo.png: source link is dead. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:34, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was unable to archive the source, although I'm not sure that means the image isn't suitable anymore. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:23, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Nikkimaria, any thoughts on this? Gog the Mild (talk) 16:58, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is an alternative source available? Nikkimaria (talk) 00:35, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I've managed to successfully archive this now. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:27, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Harper J. Cole

Hi there, here's a few comments...

• The tournament featured five female players, the most in 31 years "31 years" could be linked to 1992 World Snooker Championship.
  • I feel like that is an WP:EASTER EGG link. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:10, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Fair enough. Harper J. Cole (talk) 22:21, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Ukrainian player Iulian Boiko, who in 2020 at age 14 had become the youngest player ever to compete in the event While this is worth mentioning in both the 2020 article and Boiko's own article, it seems a bit off topic here.
  • Agreed. Removed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:13, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Sean O'Sullivan was on course for a maximum break when he potted two red balls in one shot Do we know how close he was (were they the last two reds)?
  • It was the 10th red, so not particularly close I suppose. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:13, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Poomjaeng posed for a selfie with Stevens after the first session, while trailing 3–6. I don't think you need a comma here.
  • Sure. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:13, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Afterwards, Vafaei made disparaging remarks about his second-round opponent O'Sullivan that stoked a widely publicised rivalry between the players. Just personally, I'd describe it as a feud more than a rivalry. In sports, "rivalry" is typically used to describe players of roughly equal ability who frequently play each other, e.g. Higgins and Davis in the 80s. Vafaei and ROS have only played each other a few times, with their differences being mostly personal.
  • Can't say it matters to me, I have changed it. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:07, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Wilson, who had dropped his cue between sessions while signing autographs, dislodging a weight in the butt, said that the cue was not the reason for his defeat Did this happen between sessions of the match with Higgins, or earlier?
  • I believe it was during this match! Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:18, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Maybe change to "after the first session" or "between the first and second sessions" to make it clear? Harper J. Cole (talk) 22:21, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • Neither of the sources used actually state the time (one says he did it while signing autographs, the other whilst practicing), so we can't make that claim. It's very possible he did it prior to the first session. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 08:07, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• The final was played as a best-of-35-frames match, held over four sessions on 30 April and 1 May, between Brecel and Selby. No need for the second comma.
  • Removed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:18, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Harper J. Cole (talk) 20:42, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi
, thanks for your review! Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:18, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No worries - just one more to follow up on above. Harper J. Cole (talk) 22:23, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm satisfied: Support --Harper J. Cole (talk) 10:59, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sammi Brie

Let's give that prose a bath, shall we? Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 04:46, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• The event's main stage produced 90 century breaks, including two maximum breaks, one by Kyren Wilson in his first-round match against Ryan Day, and the other by Selby, who became the first player to make a maximum in a World Championship final. Reflow punctuation: The event's main stage produced 90 century breaks, including two maximum breaks: one by Kyren Wilson in his first-round match against Ryan Day and the other by Selby, who became the first player to make a maximum in a World Championship final.
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:21, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• It marked the 47th consecutive year that the tournament was held at the Crucible, and the 55th successive year that the World Championship was contested through the modern knockout format. Remove comma CinS
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:21, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Doherty made a 137 break as he defeated Hammad Miah 10–6, but broached the possibility of retirement at the end of the 2023–24 season if his overall form did not improve. CinS remove comma or add "he" after "but"
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:21, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Fan lost the first four frames against Maguire, but recovered to secure his Crucible debut with a 10–6 victory Remove comma CinS
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:21, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Perry, who won three frames in the match on the final black ball, reached the Crucible for the first time since 2019, but stated that he felt "physically sick" afterwards because of Davis's presumed relegation. Remove comma after "2019" CinS or rephrase
  • Rephrased into two sentences. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:21, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• However, Pang reduced O'Sullivan's lead to 6–3 after the first session, and came within two frames at 9–7 before O'Sullivan clinched a 10–7 victory. Remove comma after "session" CinS
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:21, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• This marked the first time Robertson had made a 146 break in professional competition, and the first time any player had made two 146 breaks in a professional match. Remove comma CinS
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:21, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Jones won the first session 5–4, and went on to clinch the match 10–6 Remove comma CinS
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:21, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• fued typo!
  • I thought for a minute this was a briteng thing, but it turns out I've just been spelling it wrong for years. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:21, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Tournament officials halted play on table two for 45 minutes while event staff cleaned the area, and rescheduled Perry and Milkins's first session to the following evening after table one was deemed unplayable. Remove comma CinS
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:10, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Despite the interruption, Allen completed a 126 break that he had started before play was suspended, and went on to defeat Fan 10–5 Remove comma after "suspended" CinS
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:10, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Lisowski took a 6–3 lead in a fast-paced session where only two frames lasted longer than 15 minutes, and moved 9–4 ahead in the second session. Remove comma CinS
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:10, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Perry won the first five frames of his rescheduled tie with Milkins, and finished the session 7–2 ahead. Remove comma CinS
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:10, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Brecel led 9–7 after the second session, and extended his lead to 11–8 in the third session. Remove comma CinS
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:10, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• promised to "come back fighting next season." Remember your MOS:LOGICAL
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:10, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Jones won six consecutive frames in the second session to move 10–6 ahead, and won three of the four frames played in the final session Remove comma CinS
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:10, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• "disrespectful to the game of snooker and the people who come along to watch," LOGICAL
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:10, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• O'Sullivan made another frame-winning 78 break from Vafaei's break-off, and went on to take a 6–2 lead Remove comma CinS
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:10, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Afterwards, he said he was "so surprised" to progress to the quarter-finals, but was "honoured" to have reached that stage Remove comma, and maybe ", but was" just becomes "but"
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:10, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Higgins potted the black after a lengthy safety battle, and went on to lead 4–1 Remove comma CinS
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:10, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• In the final session, Selby won three of the first four frames to move one from victory at 12–6. maybe move within one?
• Three seeds, Allen, Brecel, and Selby, and one qualifier, Si, maybe Three seeds—Allen, Brecel, and Selby—and one qualifier, Si,
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:10, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Brecel, who made just one half-century in the session, flipped the cue ball off the table with his cue while conceding the opening frame, and was told to calm down by referee Rob Spencer Remove last comma CinS
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:10, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• adding that "to win means so much in such a tough game and in such a big tournament." LOGICAL
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:10, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• said of the final session that: "I really wanted to win Unnecessary colon
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:32, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Selby made a 123 break in the opening frame, and moved 3–2 ahead Remove comma CinS
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:32, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Allen said he had "underperformed" in the match and was "disappointed", but commented Remove comma CinS
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:32, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Brecel won five of the first six frames for a 5–1 lead, and finished the first session 6–2 ahead. Remove comma CinS
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:32, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Selby made a 96 break in frame 11, and also won frame 12 Remove comma CinS
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:32, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• In the 16th frame, Selby made a maximum break, the fifth of his career, the 14th in Crucible history, and the first time a player had achieved a maximum in a World Championship final. Change second comma to a colon or dash
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:32, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• and "something I will remember for the rest of my life." LOGICAL
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:32, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Selby said he "battled" in the final and "gave everything", but congratulated Remove comma CinS
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:32, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Steve Davis commented that: "It's great to see Maybe Steve Davis commented, "It's great to see
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:32, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Two players made maximum breaks of 147, Kyren Wilson in the fifth frame of his first-round match against Ryan Day, and Mark Selby in the 16th frame of the final Change first comma to colon. Remove the other comma.
  • Done Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:32, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for this Sammi, I totally missed it when it was posted. Will fix this up. :). Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:13, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Hi Sammi Brie - I've gone through and corrected all of the above. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:32, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Happy to Support. At least you won't be feuding over your spelling. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 19:37, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

Oh, another snooker article! What makes livescores.worldsnookerdata.com and cajt.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk a reliable source? The Guardian does not need an ISSN. I've reviewed many of these sources in other snooker reviews, but I note that World Snooker is inconsistently linked. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 08:20, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Livescores is the Official World Snooker Tour website - they just had a different URL for scores. Cajt is Chris Turner's old website, who is a snooker statistician who used to work for the BBC and Eurosport. I can delink the source names, which is always my favoured method. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:15, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jo-Jo ? Gog the Mild (talk) 16:57, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing to add from me here. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:09, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Drive-by comment

• References: article titles should be in a consistent case - sentence or title - regardless of how they appear in their original. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:33, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Sorry Gog, I must have missed this. I'll get on it today. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:40, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Hmm Gog the Mild. I asked at Wikipedia:User scripts/Requests to see if we could script the process (it seems like a much more suitable way to do this than change them all manually), but it was brought up that perhaps we should just retain whatever the citation itself uses. Do you know if this has been discussed anywhere before and if there is a consensus to use consistent titles? Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:53, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I found a script that makes this change and have edited as such. :) Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:41, 8 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]