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April 11

Category:Tamil words and phrases

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:44, 10 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Apart from the list article (which should be upmerged to Category:Words and phrases by language and Category:Tamil language) none of the articles in this category (e.g. Catamaran, Cheroot or Chrysopogon zizanioides) are about words - the articles are about the things the words refer to. DexDor (talk) 21:33, 11 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The Japanese category certainly contains many inappropriate articles (e.g. the Geta (footwear) article is about shoes, not linguistics). However, that category may well include some articles for which it is an appropriate category so purging, rather than straight deletion, is more appropriate in that case. Now that these categories have a notice it may be easier to keep them clean. The crux of this is that, for example, the article about apples belongs in the fruit category, not in the English words category. DexDor (talk) 06:44, 17 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That an article mentions the etymology of one or more terms used to refer to the topic isn't a characteristic of the topic itself. Nor is this a permanent characteristic of the article (I've removed uncited etymology from many articles and replaced it by a link to the Wiktionary entry). DexDor (talk) 21:49, 24 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Words and phrases by language and subcats are for articles about words, not for articles like Catamaran. Compare the contents of thsis category with, for example, the contents of Category:English words and phrases. DexDor (talk) 21:49, 24 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Taxa with documented paleopathologies

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete as non-defining. There is scope for an interesting article of tabulated list instead. – Fayenatic London 14:27, 4 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose deleting Category:Taxa with documented paleopathologies (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
  • Propose deleting Category:Dinosaur taxa with documented paleopathologies
  • Propose deleting Category:Dinosaur ichnotaxa with documented paleopathologies
Nominator's rationale: We don't normally categorize species (whether extinct or not) by what illnesses etc they suffer(red) from (e.g. there is no "Animals that get fleas" category). The use of "documented" in a category name is also unusual. DexDor (talk) 20:59, 11 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Regarding your third point ("we can observe ... directly") - We normally categorize species by the characteristics of the species, not by how we (modern humans) know what those characteristics are. For example, We may know that an animal is a carnivore from observing it feeding, from fossil teeth, from dissecting its stomach etc, but we place it in Category:Carnivorous animals regardless of how we know it has that characteristic. That principle applies much more widely in wp categorization - e.g. we don't divide Category:Murderers by whether the person admitted guilt, it was proved by scientific evidence, there were witnesses etc.
If we tried generally to divide categorization characteristics into those things we can observe directly and those things we can't then we would get into a big mess in other areas of science. For example, humans can observe the planet Venus with our eyes, but need a telescope to observe Neptune and may need other methods to "see" some extrasolar planets. How would you define "observe directly" ?
The Tyrannosaurus article is in this category - presumably on the basis that "A 2009 study showed that holes in the skulls of several specimens that were previously explained by intraspecific attacks might have been caused by Trichomonas-like parasites that commonly infect avians." (one sentence in an article that runs to many pages). That may be a fact sufficiently noteworthy to be in the article, but doesn't look like a WP:DEFINING characteristic - more a case of WP:DNWAUC. DexDor (talk) 05:21, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
When I said observe directly, I meant that researchers can study a live animal. However, when all you have of an animal are its remains, the characteristics of those remains are the defining traits of the taxon, since they are all you know about it. I really think you are underestimating the importance of that kind of thing. Categorizing modern animals identically to fossil animals is a bit of a category error, in my opinion. Abyssal (talk) 13:17, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
An article like Tyrannosaurus is about a species/genus (that happens to be extinct), not about fossils (although, of course, where fossils are the only/main evidence of a species they should be mentioned in the article). Characteristics of remains would be things like what material a fossil is made of (e.g. calcite). A more recently extinct animal (e.g. Dodo or Thylacine) may have evidence from a wider variety of sources (e.g. 17th century paintings), but we categorize it based on the characteristics of the animal (e.g. being a marsupial, carnivore, extinct), not on characteristics of the evidence for it. DexDor (talk) 06:22, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Honestly it sounds like you're objecting to the scientific definition of the word paleopathology itself. Injuries, tumors, diseases etc are used for inclusion in the paleopathology category because that's what the word means. The inclusion criteria aren't vague; the term is just very general. The main article's fixation on disease to the exclusion of other types of paleopathology is a problem. Also, I actually do have a source for the Borealosuchus paleopathology (Mesozoic Vertebrate Life), I just didn't realize the information wasn't there prior to categorization. How about replacing the category with a more complex table-based list with headings like "Taxon|Documented pathologies|Notes". Abyssal (talk) 05:22, 13 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
After some more reading, it appears "paleopathology" is used in slightly different contexts depending on author or association (e.g. vertebrate paleontologists vs forensic anthropologists), with some stressing diseases more than injuries. But, while potentially vague by definition, its use as category may invoke creative interpretation, e.g. under some theories, Homo floresiensis is merely a pathologic population of ancient humans, and thus its inclusion under the category would depend on certain views, and the above-mentioned Grallator toe highlights the equivocal nature of the category. An ambiguous or open-to-interpretation category is not ideal. The guidelines in WP:DEFINING and Wikipedia:Categorization#Articles still stand, as a few specimens do not represent defining traits of a taxa, and pathologies may well be trivial depending on their nature or frequency. A table-based list of the sort you mentioned would be welcome and useful, especially if it was well-structured (e.g. by taxon and/or condition) and of course suitably referenced. An article format might be more ideal however, to provide room for alternate explanations in the case of equivocal or controversial abnormalities, or where there are simply multiple hypotheses for the cause. --Animalparty-- (talk) 18:20, 13 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I'll create an article at some point. I'll see if I can get a DYK out of it. Abyssal (talk) 04:37, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Orthopedic surgery

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. The Bushranger One ping only 21:54, 20 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Rename. There are currently 3 overlapping categories - Orthopedics, Orthopedic surgery and Orthopedic treatment. I propose this category be renamed to include pages on individual operative proceedures (which it mostly contains at present), to become a subcategory of Orthopedic treatment, currently itself a subcategory of Orthopedics. Mschamberlain (talk) 20:12, 11 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Placental mammals by name

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. The Bushranger One ping only 21:54, 20 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: We normally categorize articles by their topic, not by the form of their name. This category currently contains just a list article that is in plenty of other categories. DexDor (talk) 18:52, 11 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:World War II Chinese fighter aircraft

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: keep but purge to Chinese-manufactured aircraft. – Fayenatic London 17:17, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: See User_talk:MilborneOne#Category:World_War_II_Chinese_fighter_aircraft

Should this be a category for aircraft used in that conflict (encyclopedic value, several members, may need renaming) or by manufacture (only one entry)? Andy Dingley (talk) 13:01, 11 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Presumably you would also go after Category:World War II Chinese aircraft.
Is there any more content we save our poor overtaxed readers from? If organising military aircraft by military conflict is such a bad thing, should Development of Chinese Nationalist air force (1937–45) be deleted too? Andy Dingley (talk) 14:25, 11 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Generally in wp, we don't categorize mass-produced items by how they have been used. So, for example Boeing 747 isn't categorized as a British Airways aircraft and Ford Transit isn't categorized as a vehicle used in The Troubles. If we did categorize by usage then articles like AK-47 and CH-47 could be in dozens of categories and articles like bayonet and towel (equipment used by sunbathers, equipment used by swimmers, equipment used in hospitals...) could be in hundreds. Lists may be appropriate in some cases. Category:Military aircraft of World War II etc are (currently) an exception to this general rule. We previously deleted many equipment-by-conflict categories (example CFD). DexDor (talk) 20:41, 11 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Andy, you know WP:OTHERSTUFF is a bad argument. - The Bushranger One ping only 00:05, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Juice=Juice

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. The Bushranger One ping only 21:55, 20 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Delete. Unnecessary eponymous/parent category for a single article more simply categorized in Category:Juice=Juice songs. No additional aid in navigation per WP:OC#EPONYMOUS. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 07:48, 11 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Eponymous fracture classifications

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Lists may be appropriate instead. – Fayenatic London 14:31, 4 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Propose splitting Category:Eponymous fracture classifications to Category:Eponymous fractures and Category:Eponymous orthopaedic classifications
Nominator's rationale: Split. I made the original category in error - it is currently too targeted a category, only comprising 10 pages at the most. This split will allow many more pages to be included in each one (examples at Template:Orthopaedic_Eponyms). Mschamberlain (talk) 02:12, 11 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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