The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. J04n(talk page) 11:33, 7 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Spiritual agnosticism

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I have looked and found no academic sources for "Spiritual Agnosticism". The current article has 5 sources, all of which are personal opinion blogs. One is by a "digital strategist managing large scale web projects for government" (I believe this is the creator of the page); another is by "an environmentalist and writer on sustainability and environmental topics"; the other is a link to a newly created website called "Spiritual but not Religious"; and there are two links to a guy with a blog who has no name or bio. And again, I have found no published sources that demonstrate that this is not just another unique personal philosophy phrase with no notable history or attribution. It should be deleted in my opinion unless it can be demonstrated that this is another phrase for "agnostic theism" (in which case it should be merged) - but I don't believe that can be demonstrated. Allisgod (talk) 19:58, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom unless decent sourcing is found. While the article makes good logical points about the difference between Agnostic theism and Spiritual agnosticism, these points seem to be original thoughts and are not sourced to Wikipedia's standards. (Nota bene; I have removed two of the sources as completely unacceptable to Wikipedia, being unknown and uncredited blog and website.) Killer Chihuahua 20:01, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

NOT DELETE You guys! This is a very new and growing sub-culture within agnosticism and, frankly, I'm very chilled to think it's being squelched simply because nobody with a degree has gotten around to exploring it. Particularly when the deletion is recommended by someone who is obviously biased toward religion. There's a Facebook community with 1500 followers discussing this topic. Also, someone at NYU has recently written a paper. This differs from agnosticism in a very specific way: The application of spiritual practices in the individual's life. Jakedimare (talk) 20:23, 31 January 2013 (UTC)jakedimare[reply]
WIkipedia does not want to be "very new". We're an encyclopedia. We want to write the established stuff, not the cutting edge stuff. That's not my opinion, that's policy. Please see Wikipedia:No original research, Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view#Good_research, and Wikipedia:Verifiability; NOR, V, and NPOV are three of the core content policies of Wikipedia. I assure you, it matters a great deal whether "nobody with a degree has gotten around to exploring it". Killer Chihuahua 20:42, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I have to concur with KillerChihuahua's argument. It may be a "very new and growing sub-culture within agnosticism" but even so, I would note that sometimes an article about a topic that may potentially be notable in the future is just WP:TOOSOON at the present time. If in the future, "spiritual agnosticism" becomes the subject of significant coverage in reliable sources, I would have no problem with the article being recreated on the basis of those sources once they become available. We have to base a decision on what is available right now, and at this point in time, I just don't see enough coverage to satisfy WP:GNG and justify the need for a separate article about the topic. I would also add that the existence of a Facebook community about the topic with 1500 followers does not meet Wikipedia's standard of notability. (From personal experience, I can attest to the fact that even Facebook communities founded upon something very trivial can become the subject of a surprisingly large number of "likes.") An academic paper (especially one published in a peer-reviewed journal) would be a far more reliable source, but more than a single such source would be needed to clearly establish the notability of this topic as distinct from the several closely related articles that already exist on Wikipedia. Speaking of which, can anyone provide a reference for the NYU paper? --Mike Agricola (talk) 00:20, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The reference to the NYU paper/essay was [Spiritual Agnosticism], but was deleted by Jakedimare. It is unclear if the essay was ever published. --Mark viking (talk) 00:47, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The author of that might be more traditionally talking about some kind of agnostic panpsychism. Allisgod (talk) 11:23, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete GScholar shows 22 hits for the term, which is not a lot. Looking at some of the most likely hits shows passing references to "spiritual agnosticism" and most of the those use spiritual as an adjective to mean agnosticism about spiritual matters, as opposed to agnosticism with regard to schools of thought. One reference that seems to use the term is

Balmforth, Ramsden. Spiritual Agnosticism: And the Sermon on the Mount in Relation to Problems of Social Reconstruction. CW Daniel, 1921.

but it is not clear this has much to do with the type of spiritual agnosticism mentioned in the article. In short, I could find no reliable sources for the article and it is dubious whether the topic itself could be claimed as notable according to the general notability guidelines (see WP:GNG for details on notability and WP:RS for guidance on what constitutes a reliable source). Mark viking (talk) 20:44, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: It does not seem that sufficient WP:RS exist to satisfy WP:GNG and warrant the topic's existence as a separate article. It was previously mentioned that "someone at NYU has recently written a paper" and a book entitledSpiritual Agnosticism was published in 1921. If encyclopedic material based upon these sources is to appear at all, it would be best placed in one of several existing articles which already exist and which have significant overlap in general subject matter, namely Agnosticism, Agnostic theism, and Spiritual but not religious. Indeed, one of the article's current sources ([1]) is really about Spiritual but not religious, which is not necessarily the same as "spiritual agnosticism" according to the article's definition. --Mike Agricola (talk) 00:08, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Philosophy-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:15, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Spirituality-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 18:15, 1 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.