The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 21:43, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Principles referenced: 1. Articles are deleted or not, on their own merits, not by reference to other articles and decisions elsewhere. Arguments based on other wrestlers or articles are not really evidence for this AFD. 2. Several 'keeps' were just comments on bundling (later unbundled), and didn't provide grounds for notability per se. 3. Of the two "keep" views which attempted to provide a basis to keep this article; one stated he is "very notable", and one stated that he is "certainly notable enough". The claims that someone is "very" or "certainly" notable lack verifiable evidence from reliable sources and hence are effectively just the views or opinions of editors. The final basis (and only factual evidences supplied) -- a few comments such as "ROH regular" or "special referee for one event" etc -- don't by themselves support an impression of notability, especially with a fairly strong feel in the AFD that notability is not evidenced.

Shane Hagadorn (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Non Notable wrestler, the article was PROD-ed, then it was removed and so I have begun the AfD. Darrenhusted 16:02, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete all Fail WP:N and WP:V from what I can tell MPJ-DK 16:17, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong delete all No sources for most. Although notability seems to be given, it is all fancruft and they are completely non-notable. Reywas92^Talk 17:11, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete all, per nom and MPJ-DK. Nikki311 20:20, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - First listed article appears to be at least marginally notable; therefore, I cannot agree to any deletions, as nominated. --Evb-wiki 22:22, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I do not believe it is appropriate to manipulate the structure of the discussion, or remove another editor's comments, just because the AfD nomination has substantially changed. Although the purpose appears to be benevolent, as it now exists, the discussion might result in some confusion. --Evb-wiki 02:39, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Article was part of a bundle, it is now unbundled

• Keep (or nominate separately). "No sources for most"? So any article with sources can be lumped in to a multiple-article suggestion and be deleted just because most of the others don't have sources? This is a good example of a bad lumping. The article I cam here through, Tamie Sheffield, is sourced and establishes its subject's notability. Striking through now that unbundled. Permission granted to delete this para entirely, if that's not against the AfD policy. -- JHunterJ 20:48, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Inappropriate bundling; please argue the case for each of these articles separately. That they are all pro wrestlers isn't enough commonality to do this; some pro wrestlers clearly are worthy of encyclopedia articles. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 21:58, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep and relist separately I can't speak to any possible notability of individuals, but this is not the way to discuss the matter. As the various Notability and other projects get going, there may be a tendency to nominate in mass, which I think must be resisted. Possibly we should clarify the criteria for doing so. DGG 22:05, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep and relist separately. As JHunterJ explained, this is inappropriate bundling per WP:BUNDLE. All are pro wrestlers. --Oakshade 23:07, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Votes were made while part of a bundle

• Comment, of the two references the first provides the following information about the subject "Height: Unknown, Weight: Unknown, Real Name: Unknown, DOB: Unknown, Hometown: Unknown, Other Names: Unknown, Wrestler Since: Unknown, Finishing Maneuver: Unknown", and yet some still feels this meets WP:V. Darrenhusted 01:33, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete As of yet, Shane Hagadorn has not really done anything notable yet. He was a student at the ROH wrestling school (not notable), held the ROH Top of the Class Trophy (a non notable title) and is the "manservant" of Adam Pearce (not notable), and out of the 18 shows held by ROH this year, he has wrestled only five times (two dark matches, one squash match against Bryan Danielson, a tag match with Pearce, and TOTC Trophy match against Pelle Primeau). Nenog 03:13, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Wrestling-related deletions. -- John Vandenberg 06:20, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment. Wasn't this articled requested on WP:PW at one point ? 72.74.201.85 15:34, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment it was also talked about on the WP:PW talk page (here is the lengthy disscussion). The person who asked if it should be created was the person that added it to the "To Do" section. Nenog 19:55, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment, it was, then the article was PROD-ed and now it is in AfD. Darrenhusted 16:10, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment, Hagadorn was a "special referree" for one event.[1] I having difficulty trying to work out whether wrestlers should be judged based on the criteria for athletes or actors. John Vandenberg 03:17, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Hagadorn is a ROH regular and certainly notable enough for the pro wrestling area of wikipedia. DanZero 04:31, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Why would it be deleted? Shane Hagadorn is very notable. Sometimes I wonder why some of these wrestlers' pages are even being considered for deletion. ThePerfectOne 03:36, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • It might be because the articles written about these "notable wrestlers" are completely unsourced and filled with original research. --Evb-wiki 12:04, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment and may be "Perfectone" if you edited more than just Chuck Taylor you would understand [2]. Darrenhusted 12:05, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Perhaps a brief mention of Hagadorn on a "American Independent Wrestlers" category page, akin to a "List of Minor Characters" or something similar is in order? That could be a compromise between keeping and deleting fairly non-notable wrestlers. --DanZero 16:32, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment why would we want to keep "fairly non-notable wrestlers". And why would we want to create a category which would be full of redlinks and only encourage the creation of non-notable wrestlers?
  • It was my attempt at finding a middle ground between keeping all of the articles and keeping none of the articles, as it'd be a nice gesture by both those seeking inclusion of all and deletion of all said pages. Would it really be that awful to have Shane Hagadorn redirect to a minor American independent wrestlers page? Furthermore, that would probably save work down the line on British and European indy wrestlers, as the scene over there certainly must have produced a number of quasi-notable talents that currently have their own pages.--DanZero 16:42, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment is there are any "quasi-notable talents" that have pages on here then they will soon find them deleted. Darrenhusted 16:48, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.