The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 15:12, 3 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Samuel Estes (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)

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Prod contested on the basis that mother of the subject was a civil rights leader. Notability is not inherited. Subject fails WP:ATHLETE. GregJackP (talk) 20:27, 27 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Fails WP:ATHLETE and every other notability guideline. Angryapathy (talk) 20:51, 27 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete It's the first contribution from someone new to Wikipedia, and although I appreciate that quite a bit of work has been done on this article, Mr. Estes would not be considered notable (by Wikipedia's rules) as an athlete or a businessman. I know that a click of the random article button can lead to the belief that anyone can qualify as notable, but if an article gets nominated, it comes down to the opinions of the persons who weight in. Mandsford 20:59, 27 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete as lacking non-trivial independent reliable sources. Guy (Help!) 22:48, 27 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:14, 27 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Athletes-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:14, 27 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:14, 27 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep I believe that you should keep this page about Samuel Estes. First of all I do not believe the premise that "notability is not inherited". Everyone in this country knows who Michael Jackson's, Elvis', Brad Pitts', and Will Smith's children are. Why should we not know who Rora Ann Murphy - Estes' children are. Maybe you want this page deleted because you don't know who Rora Ann was and still is to the African American community in and out of North Carolina. Maybe you do know and just don't care!! I do not see what the harm is in keeping th page up. I will tell you this and I do not mean it as a threat, but if this page is deleted you might as well as delete me as an annual patron because I will not be comming back to your website! I am tired of people down playing and wanting to delete major figures in my life and community because they are BLACK!!! Yes I said it! But hey maybe you don't want black people visiting your site anyway! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.67.242.78 (talk) 13:48, 28 May 2010 (UTC) —99.67.242.78 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. .[reply]

• See WP:NOTINHERITED in arguments to avoid. BTW, you only get to !vote once, so I have struck the 2nd !keep. GregJackP (talk) 15:55, 28 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• !Keep I agree with everything that the last person posted on this page. I want to go one step further. Samuel Estes was one heck of a football player. People don't know this but Sam was an honorable mentioned All American his senior year of high school. Why are all of the players in the NFL on Wiki? Because they reached some high level of achievement! Well sorry to let you in on this but Sam reached a high level of achievement himself. He earned a Master's Degree. That might not mean a whole lot to some people, but that means a lot in my community. It gives our youth something and someone to look up to besides Hip Hop Stars and Pro Atheletes. Don't judge this book by the cover, try opening up the book and reading the story before you try and delete this IMPORTANT part of history!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.67.242.78 (talk) 13:48, 28 May 2010 (UTC) — 99.67.242.78 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. .[reply]

  Comment The two votes above came from the same IP address, and have only made edits to this article. Angryapathy (talk) 15:41, 28 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  Comment The second vote draws on another ATA, VALINFO. RussianReversal (talk) 20:24, 29 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  Comment Since the two !votes cancel each other out, with one being "Keep" and the other being "!Keep" (that is, "not-keep"), what's the purpose of striking one? Why not just allow the two to void one another? Heather (talk) 19:42, 31 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not acquainted with that rule of two keeps cancelling out each other. Mandsford 02:34, 1 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The second "keep" had an exclamation point in front of it--thus, "not-keep". Heather (talk) 00:24, 2 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• How bizarre! (and no, I don't mean, "How bizarre-- not.") In three years, I've never seen someone precede their vote with an exclamation point, so I would have been surprised if a new editor had been aware of such a rule. I wasn't surprised that I might have missed it the first time around, since I'm not that observant. I mean this sincerely when I say that I believe you when you say that it's in Wikipedia-- now I know why they call these "!votes"-- but still, don't you think that something like that is idiotic? Anyway, no surprise here, 99.67.242.78 didn't precede his statement with "!" The weird little punctuation was added in by someone else [1], who later (wisely) decided to simply strike the second vote instead. Mandsford 12:48, 2 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete poorly sourced and written article--so poorly produced that I believe that it does more harm than good. Subject may one day be notable due to any number of activities, but until that happens the decision is clear. Children of notable people are not necessarily notable themselves. Try another wiki?--Paul McDonald (talk) 18:59, 28 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.