The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Without reliable sources, there's nothing here that shows the subject meets WP:BIO. --Coredesat 01:21, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sabian (wrestler) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Prod contested without improvement. Non notable independent wrestler, no evidence of multiple independent non-trivial reliable sources, fails WP:BIO. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 06:40, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Although not sure on his real name, this is a very recognisable indy wrestler, do a google search on him and you will find a lot of results. There is a hell of a lot of room for improvement including more citation. But the fact is, he is notable, has won numerous titles, onlineworldofwrestling.com link covers every single piece of information already on the page and is one of the most trusted sources for wresting information on the internet. (That in it's self is good citation.) Just the simple bit of research on the internet proves there is no grounds at all for the deletion of this wrestler and provides more than enough evidence of notability. Govvy 11:26, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Do you mean this OWW which states independent wrestlers can pay for profiles and they are also submitted by them? Therefore it's clearly not a reliable independent source for an independent wrestler. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 11:29, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment To be fair Hack, that link you provided also says that if any info is found out to be false that they will remove all info of the individual from the site and keep the money. The site does make an effort to put reliable info up. Most people will not pay to have false info put on a website on their behalf knowing they will lose their money they spent to do so when they get caught. Theophilus75 14:57, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment That means that information is most likely correct, there for a reliable source. Govvy 11:33, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment You've missed the point. The source provided is not an independent source, therefore it doesn't demonstrate notability. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 11:39, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment it is independent enough, no wrestler pays them anyway. Govvy 12:05, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment As their own site clearly states, it's possible to buy a profile and the information is submitted by the subject. Even if it was a reliable independent source (which it isn't), you still haven't provided multiple independent non-trivial sources. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 12:08, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment o well, no point arguing with you, I think I shall leave you and Burntsource to destroy the whole entire project like you two have been doing. I am fed up now, time to quit this paradox and this pathetic little wiki war. Govvy 12:10, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, fails WP:BIO with a lack of non-trivial third party sources. The (repeated) personal attacks made by Govvy are highly uncalled for. Burntsauce 23:10, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment planet Cheron's Mortal Kombat contender? --Infrangible 03:25, 17 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nom. --Jimbo Wales 07:18, 17 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Please see WP:PERNOM ŞůṜīΣĻ¹98¹^Speak 19:32, 18 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong keep subject is a member of one of the leading indy stables in the US, and has held titles of note in notable federations. Any reliable source in pro wrestling (Observer, F4W and PWTorch) will have info on him, but since they are available to paying members only, collecting info on pro wrestlers can be a dificult task at times, but that is not a reason to delete articles on notable persons. --Eivind^t@c 19:32, 17 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Lack of multiple independent non trivial reliable sources is a perfectly valid reason to delete this article. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 19:45, 17 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - given lack of non trivial independent coverage, without prejudice to recreation should such coverage occur in future. WjBscribe 00:08, 18 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment The problems I've been seeing is that certain number of people fail to see wrestlers as athletes, they have wrestling at the Olympic games, national wrestling events outside of keyfab organisations. These people put a great deal of effort into this business, they win championships. Now these championships are recognised by the wrestling commission and the wrestling commission holds a seat on the worlds sports council. Under all rules this is a sport. (Note: WP:BIO *The person has received significant recognized awards or honors.) According to WP:BIO rules, Joe Pinocchio (Sabian) is a recognised athlete under this distinction. Simply put, having any accomplishments down is a form of notability. Clicking the internal links of the CZW belts shows external link notability of his accomplishments. There for, under all the trivial talk above, according to Wikipedia rules this person does pass WP:BIO. Govvy 12:09, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment The wrestling you refer to in the first part of your comment is not professional wrestling, it is amateur wrestling which is a legitimate sport. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 12:19, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• professional wrestling is a sport. If you don't consider it a sport, then you don't have cause to prod anything wrestling related. Govvy 12:35, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Professional wrestling is not a sport by definition, and I will propose any article for deletion that does not meet Wikipedia guidelines and policies. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 12:37, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment Can you please be so kind as to tell me why it is not a sport then? Govvy 12:39, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I'd have thought that was rather obvious, and I refuse to be trolled any more. Good day to you. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 12:41, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment No it isn't obvious, professional wrestling is a sport, a sport is a definition of (winning or loosing) it is a sport. Govvy 12:45, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. It's just a stub article which needs citations. Genericchimera 06:21, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Commment Please provide reliable sources then. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 09:55, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.