The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Consensus is that this is a legitimate term used in academic publications that passes GNG. Concerns over original research can be addressed through editing or on the article's talk page. (non-admin closure) 4meter4 (talk) 01:53, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Proto-Protestantism (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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The article is complete OR; it is a best a user-made compilation of any prominent intellectual who has had one or two idea which could fit in the Five solae. There is no RS given to support the concept of "Proto-Protestantism"; none of the source given talk about the subject of the article. Veverve (talk) 23:00, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. Veverve (talk) 23:00, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Curbon7 (talk) 05:02, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Europe-related deletion discussions. Curbon7 (talk) 05:02, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Stubify or delete: A look through Google Scholar show it's a term that's at least been used by academics to an extent. However, the article as it stands is nearly 100% WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. Basically the entire article should be gutted and replaced with a few sentences of relevantly-sourced content. However, I can also support delete in the form of WP:TNT. Curbon7 (talk) 05:10, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment. I'm not sure because I've definitely seen this term before in the pre-Luther context. I'll do some digging. If there is any certain OR in it, however, it should just be taken out. TNT could well be the best option. No Great Shaker (talk) 12:58, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. From what I can see after only rudimentary research, this is an authentic term. I have to say that the article needs development, not deletion, even though some of the current content may well be ditched. No Great Shaker (talk) 16:21, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - The topic meets the general notability guideline WP:GNG as the references and further reading section cite several books on the subject. The article may need improvement, but content does not affect notability WP:CONTN. Books, such a The Pilgrim Church by E.H. Broadbent, trace the development of protestant ideas in various groups throughout the history of Christianity. Basically, they all share the themes of anti-clericalism (especially corrupt clergy), denial of the sacraments and a desire to return to a purer form of Christianity, like the Apostolic Church. - Epinoia (talk) 18:51, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• @Epinoia: Could you indicate which source use the term "Proto-Protestantism"? "Things that look like they have some elements of Protestantism before the Reform which can be found here an there throughout history" is what the article contains, and it is OR. Either the concept exists in RSs, or it does not meet the GNG. Veverve (talk) 19:49, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

- see comment by Curbon7, A look through Google Scholar show it's a term that's at least been used by academics to an extent - a few other sources are:

- “Foxe sought to establish the continuity of a proto-Protestant piety from apostolic times to the Reformation” in Where Was Your Church before Luther? by S.J. Barnett on JSTOR.org

- “Reformer” Before the Reformation: Regarding the Issue of Proto-Protestant Views of John Wycliffe, Tatiana G. Chugunova et. al., Springer International Publishing

- Chaucer Was A Proto‐Protestant by Stephanie Trigg, University of Melborne, on ResearchGate

- a search on Google with turn up other sources for Proto-Protestant - Epinoia (talk) 21:33, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - my comment will probably be kinda useless, I am still not very experienced with wikipedia, and often make mistakes. I still believe this an usefull article to have and groups such as Waldensians clearly reflect Protestant views --ValtteriLahti12 (talk) 10:50, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep This is not a made up term. Now whether it needs to be stubified or the WP:OR needs to be removed should be left to a talk page discussion. desmay (talk) 16:04, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep unless someone can say that we have something similar elsewhere. This is in the nature of a list article, listing movements seen as precursors of Protestantism. As a list, it does not need a lot of references: these will be in the more detailed article on each movement. A few or the movements may be ones that normal Protestants would regard as heretical. Precursors of Protestantism might be a better name. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:30, 22 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That's certainly a more meaningful name, Peter. Good idea. No Great Shaker (talk) 18:58, 22 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, as it is a legitimate term.Jackattack1597 (talk) 21:25, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.