The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep, despite nonsense from socks, there's enough evidence that he meets WP:BIO according to the arguments -- Samir धर्म 01:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pradip Somasundaran

[edit]
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May fail WP:BIO and seems pretty certainly to conflict with WP:VAIN Seidenstud 15:09, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. I no longer believe this is a hoax, but it's still not meeting WP:BIO per nom. alphaChimp laudare 17:05, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Latest news of Pradip Somasundaran performing in a Music and Dance festival of National Repute Where the Best in India Participate-Swaralaya-2006

If he was not notable then he would not be participating in such a reputed program in kerala! I feel like a fool in having to show you such links to make you and others believe that pradip is one of the most popular singers of Kerala who is very very busy. (Are the knowledge of the respectable Admin's in Music and Musicians of Kerala worth it?) What more is there to prove?? --Gluewhale 09:27, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above link will prove the contention on "Lata Mangeshkar Trophy" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pradipsomasundaran (talk • contribs)

Comment. You might want to read WP:BIO in regard to your case. Are there any notable newspapers attesting to you? alphaChimp laudare 17:05, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I just deleted 2 "votes" that were from the same IP: 59.93.32.243, the first one of which contained abusive ad hominem aspects. Can anyone confirm or deny if this IP is a sock of Pradipsomasundaran? The reason I ask is that the two users (anon IP and registered) happen to be the two users who are responsible for the authorship of the article in question. -Seidenstud 02:21, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Seidenstud, an IP is not a sock puppet. --HResearcher 10:57, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
He has many albums too in malayalam. Does many T.V programs too.
has sung for 1) ravindran 2) johnson 3) vidyadharan 4) mohan Sitara 5) kaithapram
6) Balabhaskar
Some links to his credit
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/20/c/singer/ http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/20/m/singer.2808/
http://www.kalakeralam.com/music/playback.htm
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0355735/combined
http://www.hindu.com/2006/01/03/stories/2006010303880300.htm
http://www.hindu.com/2005/01/07/stories/2005010718020300.htm
http://www.thehindu.com/2005/10/02/stories/2005100206690400.htm
http://www.raaga.com/channels/malayalam/movie/M0000374.html
Manjeera Dhwani. Language. Malayalam. Director. Bharathan. Year Of Release. 1998. SongID. SongName. Singers. :SG002533, Mohini Enikkae, Pradeep Somasundaram ...
raajangahm.com/ric/film/FL001011.html - 4k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages
He is also a FSF supporter and linux enthusist! http://gnowledge.org/pipermail/fsf-india/2001-July/001564.html
He is a very famous personality in Kearla! We do not want his article deleted! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.93.32.28 (talk • contribs)
Pradeep has won several awards on music and he sings in Hindi,Tamil,Malayalam etc.
The following links shows his authenticity.
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2003/02/13/stories/2003021300960400.htm
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0355735/combined
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunidhi_Chauhan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.144.73.89 (talk • contribs)
Comment I believe this guy is genuine. But I don't think he has achieved enough fame to merit a wikipedia article. The links provided which go the newspaper The Hindu were verified by me. Some of the article just mentions his name with a long list of other singers which just say that he is going to sing at this function/festival/programme. Also the IMDB article mentions that he has just sung for one film which is Manasam. Some of the singers which this page has mentioned such as Sunidhi Chauhan have sung in many fims/albums. Also they are known throughout India.
Furthermore, some of the comments mentions that he has worked with well known music directors such as Kaithapram and Ravindran. Google shows absolutely no hits regarding this. Google hits must not be used as a basis for an article but it could mean PS has worked with them in one movie or a song.

Finally, Pradeep Somasundaran's google hits show it to be 901. But on further inspection, there are just about a dozen sites which really mention this guy. --Ageo020 21:17, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. I understand you desire to have an article on Wikipedia. How about just placing the article in your userspace and dropping the whole matter? It'll show up in people's google searches, giving you what you're looking for. You have yet to cite some notable news source asserting your significance. I'm thinking something like BBC, New York Times, etc - something Wikipedia users have heard of. As for flooding this AfD with anonymous opinions...it's just silly. Anybody can see through the pattern of edits. Quite frankly, your interests would have been best served by posting one clear, well written opinion regarding your notability. I'm just saying. alphaChimp laudare 22:05, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I should probably qualify that post. Looking back on it, I'm not sure it was assuming good faith as much as I'd like. If you are really all separate editors, then it's great that you are expressing your opinions. The pattern, however, seemed to suggest the contrary. alphaChimp laudare 22:48, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Alpha Chimp,

With due respect for the pain the administrators and other wiki evangelists take to maintain this, Let me note my comments on the matter. let me state that we are not in here to fight, but to determine the credibility of the article and person in question. Please note the points below, that I would like to present for your kind perusal.

1. According to the WP:BIO,point 1, "The person made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in their specific field ",
He is a noted playback singer of south india, who has won the prestigious national level singing competition, Meri awaz suno, conducted by the Indian government's official Television channel called Dooradarshan. The show was anchored by noted theator and film actor annu kapoor. he has sung in south indian movies and albums (I'm not listing it again, as people have already done a few above) and is recognized as a playback singer in the south indian film industry.
quoting the part under success stories in [1]yashraj film's page on mary awaz suno,
"Pradeep Somasundaram (a mega final winner): Pradeep is an established artiste in the Malayalam music industry and has sung a number of songs in South India."
2. According to WP:BIO, point 4, "Widely recognized entertainment personalities and opinion makers"
On top of the above mentioned points, He has played an active part in the revolutionary online free music movement called blogswara [2], which is even compared to the opensource revolution in the computing world. He is a very popular figure in the public programs and musical functions alike. Also, he has been a guest in television shows in south india as well.
3.According to WP:BIO, point 6, "Notable actors and television personalities who have appeared in well-known films or television productions. Notability can be determined by: Multiple features in popular culture publications such as Vogue, GQ, Elle, FHM or national newspapers "
The Hindu is a national daily, which has showcased the artist in
a. [3], which says
"Nine singers, led by Pradeep Somasundaram and Gayatri brought alive nearly 28 songs, with a couple of drama songs also thrown in for variety."
b. [4] which says
"On these days, from October 6-15, that is, the Navarathri season, Kairali provides two and a half hours of dance and music each day. Noted dancers and singers from all over India will take part in it. Some of them are Alarmel Valli, M Jayachandran, Pradeep Somasundaram, Chitra Iyer, Sarat, Gaurav MajumdarSudha Raghunathan, Padma Subramaniam, Lakshmi Gopalaswamy. There are other dance-dramas too. "
c. [5] which says
`Technofest' begins at Thrissur
THRISSUR: `Technofest,' the annual State level cultural festival of the engineering college students, was inaugurated at the Thrissur Government Engineering College here on Friday by Lonappan Nambadan, MP. Singer Pradeep Somasundaram was the chief guest. The inauguration, scheduled to be held on Friday, was postponed following the death of a student of the college. As many as 2,500 students from 65 colleges are participating — Staff Reporter
d. First time malayalam podcasting service, podbazaar :[6] has showcased the person. according to podbazaar, "Pradip Somasundaran needs no introduction for people from Kerala and for those who have heard/seen the first of its kind musical program Meri Aawaaz Suno in Dooradarshan some years back. He won Lata Mangeshkar award for the best Male singer. And the best female singer was Sunidhi Chauhan. Now he sings for the movies and albums. A great singer and a cool and humble person."


I disagree with Ageo's comment on the Saregama and Antakshari, as this program was the trendsetter, which set the stage for a lot talent search and musical programs, including Saregama, which appeared in the time followed in various channels in the country.
On these basis, I believe that it fits WP:BIO requirements and hence I request the wiki team to not to delete the article.


Thanks!
--Jyothis 00:33, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I would like to disagree on some of the above points. This may seem like a wiki war but please bear with me.
1. If he is a noted playback singer, why does IMDB list only Manasam as his only credit. Being a notable singer, why does he only feature in only 3-4 articles in the Hindu. Why doesn't he come in other South Indian newspapers like Malayala Manorama, Deepika, Indian Express or Mathrubhumi. (please consider that this is not an attack on the reputation of the Hindu)
Answer: See here. http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/20/c/singer/ This lists more songs. Still this is not complete

These have malayalam fonts and do not appear in searches. Simple fact! If you want more articles just on this person enough can be provided as he he performs all over the state.

IMDB is very unreliable for judging the significance of Malayalam film personalities. It may be used to argue that someone is notable, but never than someone is not. It lists five films for Baburaj and two for Dakshinamoorthy while the actual number is well over hundred for both.
2. Google hits on this guy are very few. A noted playback singer must generate atleast 1000 hits. Even though he has 901 hits, only 10-12 actually mention his name as a singer. The rest are just hits for the surname somasundaran.( sunidhi chauhan, PS's co-winner in MAS generates 160,000 hits)
Answer: See searching the name pradeep somasundaram. He is also listed in this name.This will give you another 900 odd results. Then the total make it almost 1800! So that will get you to your magic number of 1000. After all who brought this rule that a playback singer ought to have at least 1000 hits? Strange!
3. The site blogswara just has below 8000 hits. And there is no mention of this site in any national newspaper comparing it to open source revolution. Also please note that the site has just about 10 songs to be downloaded, one of which belongs to PS.
Answer: Did you except all songs to be sung by Pradip? The site clearly tells that this is a joint effort. Not a single persons album.Silly argument which does not guage a person's popularity. If so all films & albums would have songs only by single persons.
4. Podbazaar is the audio version of Youtube. Users actually upload a songs or interview and write an article about it. It means that a user can write anything about it. It's not necessarily reliable. Also note that podbazaar is not in the top 100,000 sites according to Alexa.( it is around the 1 million mark.)

--Ageo020 02:00, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Answer: We are not talking about Podbazar's popularity here.
Please do answer this question: Is there a meter by which you can guage a person's popularity? No. Have you lived in Kerala since 1996? Have you heard this person's songs? Then why do you say that he is not popular? Based just on the Internet searches?

Info on the net is based on what info we feed into it. Kerala is very bad in internet density. Broadband started here only in 2005! So it will take some time for people in Kerala to be internet savvy. Please take all these facts into consideration.--59.93.35.130 12:48, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Comment
Ageo, I dont know on what basis you say that other major dailys has not recognised the person in question. The Hindu has a good online edition and I believe that you will not be searching in the native language, say malayalam or tamil. the problem with the current system that uses the ascii fonts used by individual language dailys are custom-built, which takes out the searchability. hence, I would think that the argument which says he doesnt generate google listing does not hold much good.
Also, I would like to know how many movies are listed in IMDB, with a comparison to the actual number of movies released. this is to identify the authenticity of the argument that says that IMDB doesnt have any records.
Please note that the blogswara recorded 5000+ hits and 300+GB downloads within no time of release of its first album, in which the person is a part of.
Its my bad that I mispresented the part of podbazar. It was mpod [7], which I should have mentioned.
On the point that Sunidhi chauhan generated that many, please note that she sings in Hindi, which has a wider audience level and reachability in the net. whereas the other languages are yet to make their way into the internet community in the level as hindi has.
I feel that the Searchability on the net may not give an actual picture on the subject.
Comments and questions are welcome.
--Jyothis 02:24, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Unfortunately being mentioned in a list of other people, all of whom performed does not constitute a "feature" as in "Multiple features in popular culture publications such as Vogue, GQ, Elle, FHM or national newspapers." A "feature" is (from wiktionary) " 1. An important or main item." Being listed in the context of many others who participated in an event that was features does not constitute a "feature." As far as the unreliability of search tools to properly reflect foreign-language sources, this may have to condemn the article to unverifiability (WP:V). Seidenstud 03:01, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment
Is this a wiki war? Seems like one of your mods Ageo is bent on making it so! He seems to be from Kerala and still bent upon to discredit a person about whom he does not know anything. Hey accept the facts. The other mods are more mature.Have a broader outlook.
contention1): Why is pradip singled out when the abhijit sawants/amit sanas all have articles here?

I am a press reporter & writer based in Kerala and know this singer since 1994. I think it's time to close this discussion.Most of the supporting comments are from amateur fans. I am a passerby and was alarmed to see so much talk based on just news from internet! Net or google is not the final word on any person's popularity or talent it also gives incorrect and incomplete facts many times.There is more to a celebrity than google. Has anyone of the mods here has ever heard this man's voice? You can judge his popularity from his music blog. It's unfair to comment on a person's talent & popularity from factual materials just from the Internet without taking a round up of other important factors like regional popularity and support.So thought of giving some clear facts without any bias as one of the mods here has suggested.

A celebrity is more than internet news. It takes just minutes to be one and years to sustain it.Pradip became a celebrity for all malayalees in 1996 and is still going strong after 10 years.

contention 2): I found articles about Kazi, Abhijeet Sawant, Amit Sana

(http://en.wikipedia.org./wiki/Amit_Sana - This man does not have any material to support any claims as per this wiki but still he is there!)and even just some participants of the Indian idol/ program on your wiki who are here just due to this single T.V program! Some have not even sung a single film song or any album to credit!

Who authorised this article to stay without even an iota of supporting facts as pradip has?

Then why should pradip not be here? (Just a contention)

Contention 3) The same rule should apply for everyone.He is a celebrity since 1996. Some

of his achievements are as below.

1) 1991-President's Gold medal winner in A.I.R National level Light Music

competetion

2) 1996- Lata mangeshkar Award for best male singer of India in Meri Awaz

Suno, the first National level Televised Music competetion.

3) 1997- The prestegious TOYI (Ten Outstanding Young Indian Award) given by

JCI International which is recognition to his contributions TOYI Award

4) 1998- Best T.V Playback singer of Kerala award for the

song"Ennakkaruppin"

5) He is a regular in many T.V programs and has done a listless number of

Albums.

This list is endless and they are only some of his major achievement..He has

performed all over India & in all the gulf countries many times.

So your first requirement of having won atleast an award of National repute

is satisfied as he has won three such awards.

He was one of the few Indians selected by the Indian & Japanese Govt. to participate

in 1) Ship for the world youth program-1994 http://www.swyaa-india.org/Pprofile.asp 2) Renaissance-World Youth Prog-2003 http://www.iyeo.or.jp/Ren/2003/edu/profile.htm

None of the above music competetion winners have such a brilliant profile of

international stature and varied interests!

The finding by one of the mods about singing in only one film is not true.
The list is incomplete as he has been signed by Sandeep Chowta to sing in a

major Hindi Film! This list which too is incoplete has many of his songs: click on the singer pradip and you will find more films in which he sang.

http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/20/c/singer/
He permanently appears on this T.V program in Kerala:
http://www.amritatv.com/html/anjali.php
Mod's: The list and details about Indian Playback singers is very new and

without much indepth info. Why don't we all try to expand it rather than closing out such talents. You should also expand to wider areas of information other than just basing your findings on the number of google hits.

Wiki should also be about trying to find real talents(who do have contributed in their fields) who need to be introduced to the whole world. Let's not shun away from expanding knowledge and throwing light for the world. No one should be discriminated against.Let's give credit to the people who introduce such new faces to the wiki. Isn't the whole existence of the wiki based on expansion of such new info?

I have presented a comprehensive writeup based on my available knowledge. I

do not know why all these facts were not mentioned in this article in the first place by the creator! If still this does not warrants merit then God save the person who started this article!

Radhakrishnan
--59.93.15.182 05:31, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Indian national Newspapers like to sell their stuff based on political news . We are discussing about talent here. Wiki needs to introduce people of talent instead of repeating something already on the net. His contribution to music in Kerala is remarkable.

This IP address is likely associated with the vandal Nilmar1--see below. -- Scientizzle 23:57, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Nilmar1 was just blocked indefinitely for vandalism. This account was likely used from IP address 130.216.191.84 (above), as the edits are very related. -- Scientizzle 23:57, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rgds Jyothish Jothishkumart 05:20, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No way to ignore such a multi talented personality. --59.93.39.205 10:35, 2 August 2006 (UT

From all the above mentioned information, the following points are enough to merit his article here 1) He has sung in many Films (only some are indicated in Internet as database is old) . Heard he sang in a new film of for Ramesh Narayan. Saw the news from papers. So he is a playback singer and active. He is a life member of M.A.C.T.A (Malayalam Cine Technicians Association) 2) His songs appear on Television channels almost every day! 3) He has two Awards of National repute 4) He has a music blog which is live proof of his activity in music field and his blog is listed the fifth in it's category in India Indian Bloggers Websiteand touching 6000 hits in a span of 3 months! 5) He has participated in International Youth Exchange programs two times. 6) He propagates the use of free software in Kerala. 7) He is an eminent lecturer who teaches Electronics which makes him special and different from ordinary singers All these show that he is a multifaceted personality. I found even lesser mortals having articles written on them. Whay have you not gone after such people? So let there be sanity. Let talent courtesy and vanity get it's worth. Make your judgement on what has been mentioned on the article and whether it well supported by people who have opined and facts available. Anoop --59.93.33.147 17:47, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

His Symphony program on Kairali was exceptionally good. Also the song "Porumo En Shya Megame" on Doordarshan is now a legend for malayalees all over world. Also his ghazal programs and Stage showas on Asianat and ACV are very good. We also regularly watch Anjali and Ghazal on Amrita T.V there. I speak for thousands of gulf malayalees. Do not delete this article because one foolish ignorant malayalee who has not seen Kerala or lived here does not know Mr. Pradip. Thousand of malayalees in kerala and abroad cannot forget Meri Awaz Suno. He is the only malayalee who won a hindi singing competetion.

George Philip-Dubai-On leave--59.93.34.122 01:24, 3 August 2006 (UTC)—[reply]

WP:BIO Notability

says that:

Notable actors and television personalities who have appeared in well-known films or television productions. Notability can be determined by:

Multiple features in popular culture publications or national newspapers

A large fan base, fan listing or "cult" following

An independent biography

Name recognition

WP:MUSIC

says that:

  • A musician or ensemble (note that this includes a band, singer, rapper, orchestra, hip hop crew, DJ, musical theatre group, etc.) is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria:
  • Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable).
  • Has been featured in multiple non-trivial published works in reliable and reputable media (excludes things like school newspapers, personal blogs, etc...).
  • Has won or placed in a major music competition.
  • Has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network.
  • Has been the subject of a half hour or longer broadcast on a national radio network.

Hence any small child could see from all the presented facts that he qualifies more more than one of the above when only one of the above is required for his inclusion.

So I request the administrators to end this unnecessary discussion and let the article be improved with further info on this person with mistakes which as per your rules removed.


Regarding Newbies

  • As per the above newbies are to be encouraged. Here some admins like Ageo are violating this basic spirit.

Personal attacks

  • As per the above personal attacks are unwarranted. But Ageo is waging a personal war with this person and his huge fan following as I could see. This attitude is very immature and below the dignity of a WIKI Admin.

He should admit his impulsive action and gracefully admit the article and take the help of Pradip in improving music related articles on the Wiki. A truce and positive action is the need of the hour and an end to this unnecesary discussion. Mr Pradip does not seem to be a terrorist or a thief. He seems to be a multi talented person with a huge fan following. So take his help in getting more info to the wiki than discouraging such eminent people.

Mad Max:--59.93.4.180 10:19, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pradip Somasundaran is not very famous nowadays. As you can see in the article, he was on a roll till 1998; limelight has eluded him since then.

That said, let me admit that I am a bit surprised seeing him in Wikipedia. As I said, he is not that famous; yet he is not an ordinary keralite either. Let me say, for a brief period of time, he was a somewhat-well-known guy.

Overall a very funny situation..is he famous enough to get into wiki? Mind you, to an ordinary (non-netizen) keralite he will be more famous than wiki!

However, I think this article should be deleted. Reason? Take a look at it's history. A pathetic attempt for fame and publicity. It's a pity he couldn't do it in any other manner. --Sandeepmdas 15:50, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Mods, Please note that I have added more information on the page Pradip Somasundaran. Please take a look before reaching a decision. All these are verifiable with the concerned authorities. I humbly request you to consider the fact that The internet doesnt contain any information, unless we, the users add them to it. As we cannot measure the talent and popularity by scale, google should not be the final word on adding new and valid information on to the wiki. I strongly believe that this article should not be deleted, just because internet doesnt have enough information available. Thanks! --Jyothis 20:39, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- Also the many unregistered users who have voted here suggests to me that someone is using sock puppets and voting over here. - But some of them have given some good points such as Jyothis, But overall I would say Pradip has barely sang a film song in the last five years , hence delete this article. - Also some other article created by pradip are en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Malayalam_playback_singers. - I would like to rebutt Jyothis one point i.e. Talent doesn't get you a wiki article. Fame however does. Pradip is just nominally famous.--RonStoppable 02:00, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Note : RonStoppable was blocked five hours after he added this comment above. Tintin (talk) 09:05, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

With Due respect, I disagree to some points noted above.

1. user User:pradipsomasundaran is not Pradip himself. I had contacted him enquiring this earlir and he has confirmed this. I know that it is not a fair practice, and I have checked that out at the first place. As he is a teacher, I wouldnt have had to collect and add the informatiion in Pradip Somasundaran today. Whoever created the page used his name as his id.

2. Unregistered IPs does not denote Socks. Most of the people who comes by and participate in this discussion does not know that you need to sighn with a login. South India is not much wiki literate yet. I dont think a normal user knows to IP spoofing or chainings.

3. BlueValour, I dont think many indian wikipedians knows Taranath Rao too. (No offence intented). everyone will have their area of interests and knowledge base. India, especially South India is not much wiki literate yet. People hear about wikipedia, when they get out of the state or country. Wiki norms does not require you to win the international recogintion. Also he is definitely way famous than Prof. R. Bindu.

Comment: Even Prof. Bindu is not a Professor. She is a just a selection Grade lecturer(Professor post does not exist in colleges. only in universities as per UGC norms)and a petty local body politician Who the hell actually gave permission for such irrelevant articles. The admin's should resign for this!

Ron, I have added the list of songs he has sung. Please take a look. I accept that talent does not get you there. I suppose you misread my statement.

Thanks.--Jyothis 09:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]


He is also a regular participant in Swaralaya Music & Dance festival at Palakkad and is performing there this october too! Fact can be cheched from their website Swaralaya. He is also to perform for a fund raising program by the Malayalam Film fraternity in Cochin. So who says that he is not active in the first place? Such reckless opinions are only personal opinions and not the truth. If he were not famous now he would not be invited again and again for programs all over Kerala. SO this amounts to deliberate attemopt to defame the singer and is serious matter. The fact is that any famous artist has highs and lows in his career. Right from Michael Jackson to Whitney Houston and the great Rafi in India had bad phases. Jackson and houston have had long times when they have not had any new releases. So will our wiki admin's delete their pages? This is rubbish and immature thinking. If it were such we would have to remove articles of all such people and dead people since their current contributions are nil! Once a person attains celebrity status it is for his whole life. He or she stays in the heart of millions of fans for a particular reason which is for keeps. They may sway between active and passive phases of their career. Anyway this guy is only around 40! He also seems to have up's and downs. But seems quite stable with so many albums awards and achievements to credit. What the hell more are you looking at here? The article also says that he sang for "Art of Living International" which is indeed prestigious if true. Some articles mentioned above like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amit_sana are stupid in that they do not have anything on the person concerned. He has no album to credit and also their is no award list or any material that would be termed suitable for his qualification for a wiki article. "Many believe that Amit Sana is a superior singer to Abhijeet and that he only won due to female support but Amit remains great friends with Abhijeet they made a special appearance in season 2 of Indian Idol where he and Abhijeet along with Aditi Paul performed a song together" These are the wordings used in this article! The admin's who are keeping their eyes shut to such rubbish hearsay should hang their heads in shame! So who put it there and why there is no hue and cry about this one??? He has not even won an award. He is just a runner up! There are so many singers in Kerala like Manjari, gayatri who have only 100 and 6 hits in google! So does that mean that they are not celebrities or playback singers ? They are State Government award winners. It is foolish to says that a playback singer has to have 1000 google hits. Who made this rule? Gayatri and manjari are the leading female singers in Malayalam. If an some wiki admin who lives abroad did not hear about them does it mean that they do not exist?
Shame on such Admins. They should be reported to the arbitration committe for such immature comments and shouls not be allowed to function as Admins.
As for me somasundaran (even if he started the article which i doubt as the first version was like some of his fans one trying to have some fun) satisfies all requirements of having an article here in wiki WP:BIO Notability WP:MUSIC Both the above norms more than satisfied in his case.

Musicians and ensembles There are a lot of bands, singers and other musicians and musical ensembles with articles in the Wikipedia (see Category:Musicians).

Has had a record certified gold or higher in at least one large or medium-sized country.

He satisfies all the above requirements SO IS HIGHLY NOTABLE. So why have you put this article for deletion in the first place? So close this matter now. All other personal likes and dislikes like whether he was popular before, is popular now or will be in future, is nonsense as THERE ARE CLEAR GUIDELINES TO GUIDE US ON THIS. So all personal references like "I have not heard this guy", "he should have won all major competetions in India", etc. do not hold any ground at all.

WHETHER HE IS POPULAR NOW OR NOT IS NOT THE ISSUE HERE AS SOME PERSONS ARE DELIBERATELY TRYING TO SHIFT ATTENTION. THE ONLY ISSUE IS WHETHER HE SATISFIES ANY OF THE CRITERION AS PER WIKI NORMS.All other personal comments of what someone thinks on his poularity are to be ignored. There is no meter for poularity and this cannot be acertained mere google searches and by people who are away and are not living in kerala. Let this be decided by we who live here!

Hope the more mature and experienced Admins/mods like Seidenstud & Alphachimp show maturity and take this off from the deletion page without delay--Gluewhale 08:47, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Comment. I'm really alarmed by the level of sockpuppetry on this page. If at all possible, I'd like to solicit the opinions of more Wikipedians by extending this debate for another day or so. alphaChimp laudare 14:15, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]


So far the regular editors who have commented on this are yourself, Bharatveer, Jyothiskumart (not Jyothis), Rajith Mohan, myself, Deepujoseph (thunderboltz), Ageo20, Anandpiyer, Umesh (who is active in ml.wiki), Raghu.kuttan, Sandeepmdas, Bluevalor and HRsearcher. Seidenstud has commented but I can't see him give his opinion. I don't know where Bluevalor and HResearcher are from but of the rest, all except you are from Kerala (and hence are supposed to know what this is all about).
Alphachimp, Ageo20, HResearcher have voted for a delete, myself and Deepu confess our ignorance but go for a weak keep, the rest are for retaining the article. So the sock/meatpuppets needn't have taken all the trouble. Tintin (talk) 14:46, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Hi All, Please read the given below sentence is from NDTV message borad. First read it.

Re: Best Indian Music Director - Sent By: reemakaran (jaipur,india) i am not agree with ur choice abt ilaya coz i never heard abt ilaya raja so how can u say that ilaya raja is best indian music director [ http://www.ndtv.com/mb/readreply.asp?topicid=333&tablename=Music&id=565946 ]


I think now some wikipedia users behave like this sender. Coz i never heard abt Pradip so how can u say? Don’t be behaving like this! A real wiki pedia user who interested in music should know about all singers. He is really a good singer. He is really multitalented like a Teacher in Electronics dept and a singer.

we can never compare him with Yesudas or MG Sreekumar. And he is not a notable Play back singer. But he is a notable singer. And he deserved for this article.


I never say to delete this article. 

But need modification. I think there is no need of maximize the article with his all details. And maximum try to minimize the article with necessary details.

Rgds Jothishkumart 14:31, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Who is this comment addressed to ? Tintin (talk) 14:46, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't like to address a perticular user. I felt some users behaving like that. Don't confuse with user jyothis and jothishkumart. I am user jothishkumart .Jothishkumart 06:18, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]



TinTin,Alpha Chimp,Mods, I am a malayalam wikibooks Contributor. I agree that I dont do things here. You can see my work here Sorry that I did not mention it earlier. Thanks. --Jyothis 15:01, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Alpha Chimp. This is not an article about a Mozart or a Beethoven, only about a singer who now as seen from the info and various comments is notable through his awards and T.v programs. So even if there are socks they have been very informative and have countered vague arguments very well. So I think they can be excused.I think we should give the credit to Jyothis who has compiled the facts. Tintin I think this writeup is not too big. Have see many huge articles like here. Eric Clapton, and here Jayachandran(which is more hearsay,over descriptive and not neutral. It also smacks of hero worship). Also since the credibility of this person was in question, Jyothis did the right thing by making the article more comprehensive, and wiki friendly.He has laid out only the facts and information about this singer who has been mis-understood by many wikipedians who are not in Kerala.After all this is our job, bringing out the truth and compelling the people who want such articles to be published to be more accurate. So now Admins please go after the Amit Sanas, Prof. Bindu's and such people. let the people who started this article heave a sigh of relief and improve upon it. Enough time has been spent already debating on this. Admin's take a decision now without going for the extra day.--Gluewhale 15:21, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]


YOU HAVE FAKED TO BE AN ADMIN WHEN YOU ARE NOT. YOUR EXISTENCE IN WIKI IS ONLY FROM MARCH 2006.

Hi! I noticed on your user page that you identify yourself as an admin. Since you aren't an admin, I strongly suggest you remove you the box. JoshuaZ 19:42, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, please explain why you made the claim. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 19:43, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

About my page in which i made an admin claim, I'm sorry. I just copied that section from another user's page. I line checked the code but i think i may have overseen this. Really sorry if this caused any trouble. Thanks User:Ageo020 --Ageo020 00:57, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Its ok. Don't worry about it. JoshuaZ 01:38, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

You do not have any basic knowledge of wiki! You have made all silly references like 1) 1000 hits in google to be a playback singer 2) Close up Antakshari being a music talent show.

From your Quote "" *Delete the singer may have won the trophy but its not a trophy well known to other indians. Some of the famous singing competitions at that time were'Sa re Ga Ma' and 'Antakshiri' which were not won by this guy. Also no professional fame was acquired by this guy. Also I have not heard of any notable film songs sung by this guy in malayalam or tamil

This was your silly comment in the begening where you wanted this person to win all singing competetions in India (Are you his mentor?)

You said you have not heard him. What importance does this have here on this discussion. You might not have heard about many persons. That shows your ignorance and arrogance not knowledge.You do not have any proven competance in music to prove professional competence of this person. This has been already done by the people who gave him so many awards and made him sing in so many films, albums, T.V shows and live shows in India and abroad. This is not your job. Your job was to see whether the article satisfies wiki norms and you had no business to poke into competance and poularity polls. YOU DID NOT DO YOUR JOB IMPARTIALLY AND WITH NEUTRALITY. Thousands of malayalees including admins here know him and have heard him. Now you want to shut their voices by this last ditch futile attempt? There is also a complaint that you sent anonymous hate mails to the singer's blog and some nasty campaigns making this a personal war. We have proof that you sent personal invitation to other wikipedians from your page to help you in this hate campaign which is below the dignity of any wikipedian. You do not have any right to do so. Your actions speak for your sick mind!

Ageo's actions from his talk page and from the page of user pradipsomasundaran

Quote

This is a message to all Category:Kerala Wikipedians

I want your opinion on this particular person Pradip Somasundaran. He claims to be a famous singer in Kerala. Now being a Malayalee, I have not heard of this person before, so I wonder whether or not you have heard of him before and set this issue straight. If so, then please let your opinion be counted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pradip Somasundaran. Please note that by voicing your opinion as a Malayalee/Keralite will add more weight to your words.

Many Thanks --Ageo020 21:42, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey PS Yes, you are right. I have not lived in Kerala in the past 2 years. That doesn't mean I am not familiar with it. Now Amrita TV is not a TV channel watched by the masses. They watch Surya, Asianet or Kairali. If you have been seen on this channel, it means to me in my biased opinion that you are not too famous to have an article in wikipedia. Also remember that there are many singers who have cut their own records. That doesn't mean they have to have an article too. 

  Plus I am a frequent listener to malayalam film songs and I have certainly not heard of you. Do not waste your time ranting about whether the article should be deleted or not. Instead focus your energy on singing and becoming famous and then having someone else to have an article written about you. This letter may make you more angry, but I am sorry.

Ave --Ageo020 03:19, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Unquote

I found these messages on your page and on the person impersonating as user pradipsomasundaran. These clearly show your immature dirty mind and illegal actions. This also proves that all your comments are biased as you yourselves have admitted to this here! You have used abusive language with intent to disgrace defame and provocating a person. If the real Pradip Somasundaran finds this out you will cut a very sorry figure for yourselves! This is enough to file a case against you in the arbitration section man!

Admins: Remove this person soon. He is a disgrace to wiki. He is just an editor(counter vandalism unit member?) and claimed to be an Admin with an Admin box on his page which was removed when some one reported this. He also is a novice who started editing in March 2006 and yest behaves as if he is the owner of wiki.


The outcome of this this discussion will be decided on merit not your ego! After this is over your actions will be reported to the arbitration committe. Except you all the other people who have commented, including admins have behaved sensibly with reason and dignity.

All your silly arguments have been put to rest by many many of the people who commented here. Now that you do not have anything to say, rather than replying to the observations you become a mouth for some other admin and be a cry baby and say that "hey, all the supporters are fake!" You have not replied to the Amit Sana issue so far. Why are you showing double standards?" When you started spreading lies did you expect others to be quiet? Now you will tell that even the other admins are socks. This is a futile futile attempt again. Where were you all this time?

Let's stop trying to disprove the already proven celebrity status of one of the most talented young singers of kerala who still has a long way to go. No other singer in kerala sings so well in so many languages and so many styles! He does not have many film songs but he is not retired and is only around 40. He is also very active as a singer with many programs. There is nothing we or he can gain or loose in this unnessary debate. Let's show maturity. Enough material proof has been provided by many for his credibility. He satisfies more than one criterion for an article here.

Have you all editors and mods from kerala seen how many singers from malayalam have a decent page here? And we call ourselves malayalees??? Only K.J Yesudas has a terific page here in wiki standards. P. Jayachandran also is o.k. But none of the singers gave a good article here! Is it because they all do not have 1000 google hits? Time to stop this silly argument. All the playback singers including kamukara, udayabhanu, unnimenon, venugopal, gayatri, jyotsna, rimi tomi, vidhu pratap, manjari who are loved and adored by lakhs of malayalees do not have a page here! Let pradip's page be an eye-opener to all those who want to take up this issue and make the section of malayalam playback singers strong. Why is it so that malayalees are the biggest "paras" to malayalees?(sorry this usage will be understood by malayalees only. Not in wiki dictionary) Let's all forget personal ego's and get to improving information on all the great playback singers in Malayalam instead of degrading them. I am here to give my sincere contributions to wiki not to degrade any person.--Gluewhale 01:40, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well I have started my contributions with a page on Gayatri Asokan--Gluewhale 07:48, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. --Jyothis 01:54, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

More photos and proofs. If at all we have any 'Real' Mods around, Please see this.

International Recognitions & Citations


To know more on this program click here > Ship for World Youth program

Above 3 links were added by: --Gluewhale 17:50, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Meri Awaz Suno

Awards

In the news

Misc

Above 3 additional Links added by --Gluewhale 10:56, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]


If Alpha Chimp or other admins still feel that I am a sock, I can give my direct contact information. I work in a facility that has stringent security restrictions and background checks including FBI fingerprint verification. I'd be more than happy to prove my identity, if at all I have to.

It is quite sad to see such remarks, as you are tracking the IPs. Also, as I have stated above, I contribute to Malayalam Wikibooks.

--Jyothis 02:57, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pradip is a well known singer of kerala.He has done many albums in malayalam.And one of the most commenting thing about him is i think no malayalee sings hindi songs as good as him. So there is no need for a deletion. [User:Tharanath R] 04:30, 5 August 2006


Request to the new editors (especially Jyothis and Gluewhale) who added their comments here : Since you all seem very passionate about articles related to Kerala, I wonder whether you guys would like to hang around a little longer in Wikipedia, instead of disappearing the moment this AfD is over. There are not many articles about Kerala and even those which are, are mostly not in a good shape. We could do with a bit of help in improving the articles. If you have any questions, feel free to ask in the Kerala noticeboard. (PS : Just noticed the new article that Gluewhale created yesterday. Thanks) Tintin (talk) 14:42, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment

I end my defense of this article by presenting a comprehensive list of verifiable documents above along with what has been presented by jyothis from various sites which PROVES BEYOND DOUBT that he is a very very notable guy. Not only a great singer of Kerala but a multifaceted talent who has spread his knowledge & talent not only in Indian but also abroad. The Govt. of India has sent him two times abroad to Japan for his talents (we lesser mortals do not even have heard of such programs!). Other than the "Lata Mangeshkar Trophy" he has been honoured both in India and abroad two times, one by by the JCI with TOYI and other the Dubai Kairali Kalakendram for his contribution to music. He has won two awards in Kerala too for contribution to music. He also won an International talent competetion. He has done shows abroad and is still actively doing music shows, singing in films, singing in albums, singing in T.v programs, propagating linux, technology in India and abroad. Now what more do you want from this person?

I chanced upon your blog from wikipedia, i have always been a big fan of yours for many many years, i have been following ur singing in "Anjali" in Amrita channel and the hindi songs you render are absolutely brilliant.

Hope to visit your blog more often.

Posted by Praveen to Pradip Ki Awaz Suno at 8/05/2006 11:43:01 PM '

This is just one of the hundreds of comments that I found on his blog today! If a person can find his blog from this article then it should be good enough! The hundreds of comments there prove his popularity as a singer. Kerala is a small state and people of his breed are rare.So he is one of our heroes! Now you decide whether to keep your ego's in tact or to keep this article! We cannot undo a person's contributions by just shouting foul 100 times. Thank you...I retire...from this defence for dignity and justice and hope justice and sanity prevails over false ego's!

"You will not see light if you shut yourselves out in your room. When you come out in the open you will see light! Knowledge is light. Ignorance is darkness"

I do not have anything more to say. --Gluewhale 18:32, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A blog having hundreds of comments does not make it important. alphaChimp laudare 19:43, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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