The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Majorly _{(o rly?)} 13:06, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mindbridge Foundation

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Non-notable organization. Google search on name returns only 62 unique hits on 204 returns, mostly simple listings/directories outside of primary source. Conventions sponsored by group *might* be notable, but group itself does not have citations to establish notability. Delete. MikeWazowski 01:56, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Insufficient signs of notability. StuartDouglas 10:00, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and Delete. This organization has no notability outside of the conventions it hosts. RGTraynor 17:02, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Mindbridge is a pretty notable organization. Kopf1988 03:35, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - and you believe this because....? Please provide at least *some* kind of citations to refute the argument posted above. MikeWazowski 03:40, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Several reasons, such as its branch from the founding by an award winning author, its several conventions, and its history. This article also inherits the notability of the SFLIS (unless we create an article about them and sub Mindbridge there??) Together they're notable enough at least. Kopf1988 03:57, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Science Fiction League of Iowa Students" brings back even fewer returns (37 unique on 54 total) than does the Mindbridge Foundation. Had Haldeman actually *founded* this group, that might be one thing, but according to your text, his only connection is that he taught a class that some of the people that *did* found the group attended, plus they named it after something he wrote. How exactly does that confer notability on either the SFLIS or Mindbridge? Again, without reliable third-party sources to back up any of this, it's a *very* tenuous claim, at best, and I remain unconvinced. MikeWazowski 04:18, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Google is not a reliable test on its own. As for your proof, how about some mentions here and here. I'm sure those can be construed in a variety of ways, but the easiest thing to see is that he either founded or played a large role in the founding. 'Nuff said. Kopf1988 06:51, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Your first link is nothing but a page full of links, and proves nothing about the Mindbridge Foundation. Your second, while it mentions Haldeman, does not mention the Mindbridge Foundation anywhere on the page, so I hardly see how that proves anything in regards to the notability of the Mindbridge Foundation, which is what this discussion is about. You'll also note that I'm not using the low number of Google returns as the sole basis of my decision - I'm using the fact that very few, if any, of them are from reliable sources. There is a difference. MikeWazowski 07:25, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

To quote from WP:ORG: "A company, corporation, organization, group, product, or service is notable if it has been the subject of secondary sources. Such sources must be reliable, independent of the subject and independent of each other. The depth of coverage of the subject by the source must be considered. If the depth of coverage is not substantial, then multiple independent sources should be cited to establish notability. Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not sufficient to establish notability ... Organizations whose activities are local in scope are usually not notable unless verifiable information from reliable independent sources can be found." Lots of outfits hold conventions, and as far as Joe Haldeman goes, notability isn't contagious. RGTraynor 13:36, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And WP:ORG is a guideline, based on consensus(which is also disputed). As such, you can go around beating people in the head with it. Kopf1988 04:48, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It cannot come as a surprise that an encyclopedia that works on consensus has numerous guidelines that are, unsurprisingly enough, arrived upon through consensus. If you prefer, I can beat you over the head instead with WP:ATT, which is official policy: "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is whether material is attributable to a reliable published source." RGTraynor 15:28, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:ORG; specifically, the absence of any independent third party nontrivial secondary sources.--Kubigula (talk) 03:18, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete no 3rd party refs not notable. NBeale 06:34, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.