The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Veinor ^{(talk to me)} 01:39, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Matthew Books

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It's a book series without any assertion of notability aside from a few mentions in non-notable websites, nor any that I can discern from a quick search. There are neutrality concerns which would require repairing should the article be kept. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 04:48, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, per my nomination. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 04:48, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete serious problems identifying any independent sources about the books. Guy (Help!) 17:21, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, over 10,000 copies of the book were sold, and there are numerous reviews on Amazon.com about the book. If this article is to be deleted, then so should all but two articles about (spiritual) mediums. --Snooziums 22:22, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Amazon book reviews are not reliable sources, and it is possible to sell nearly anything on Amazon.com, so its existence there isn't much either. Wikipedia:Attribution and Wikipedia:Notability are of primary concern here. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 22:35, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If this article is to be removed doe to lack of notability, then the following should be as well:

Channelled entities:

Aiwass, Count of St Germain, Djwal Khul, Dr. Fritz, Kryon

Spiritual mediums:

Derek Acorah, Ailene Light, Rosemary Altea, Mina Crandon

Benjamin Creme, Allison DuBois, Eva Pierrakos, Arthur Ford, Colin Fry, Ronna, Herman, Esther Hicks, Gordon Higginson, Estelle :Roberts, Jane Roberts, Betty Shine, Doris Stokes, Swami Laura Horos, James Van Praagh, Lisa Williams, Mary Ann Wintkowski, Patience Worth, and Chico Xavier

--Snooziums 22:39, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In addition, there is a review of the books and interview with their author on the Meria Heller show, a well-known radio show in the links section.

--Snooziums 22:39, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Those seem to meet Wikipedia:Attribution, and probably Wikipedia:Notability. As I said, those two pages, one of which is policy, are of primary concern here. Please read them fully if you do not understand my reasoning for the deletion nomination. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 22:49, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have added the section "Other reviews of the books" to the page. --Snooziums 23:10, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, as there are a couple of reviews of the books from independent sources, and a high volume of the books have been printed and sold, and there are numerous reviews. In addition, this author has appeared on a couple of independent shows. --Snooziums 20:25, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Additional Note: The author of these books, Suzanne Ward, is a regulator guest on BBS Radio, and in fact, is listed on the "shows" section of that Wiki page. Clearly, there is enough notability to be listed on a radio station that has enough notability to be listed on Wiki.

If this article is to be removed due to "lack of notability," then I would suggest removing Guy Finley and James Gilliland, as the notability is about the same.
- Hmm. After commenting about being hesitant to keep the article about Guy Finley without more reliable sources, I checked out your contributions and noticed the activity on this page and the nominations for deletions of the other pages. I'm concerned about WP:POINT. On the other hand, some of these do need to be scrutinized. --Strangerer (Talk | Contribs) 11:54, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Since this book is sold through many Unity Church bookstores (I know because I have seen it there, and have seen it sold, and members have talked about it), and as it appears to be doing well on Amazon.com (no, not a "best seller," but still not a obscure book, I am not sure how the "notability" concern applies here. A Google search appears to yield at least a few thousand hits on these books, especially the first book in the series. There are numerous reviews of the book, some hosted by actual companies or non-profit organizations, and a couple of them are listed on the page in question. --Snooziums 19:07, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I will admit that this article does need to be "cleaned up," and I have been working on that. However, posting an article for deletion within 24 hours of it being created because it needs to be "cleaned up" is not a practical way to go about it. If there were issues about neutrality and notability, they should have been discussed in the talk page, not just mark the entire page for deletion. --Snooziums 21:53, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reply. I nominated it because, while a few sources are provided, they're far from notable and I was completely unable to find any better sources despite trying. An AfD affords a decent amount of time to come up with sources. The Wikipedia is not a place for advertisements or for articles about particularly non-notable subjects (especially when they're products); if you can't attribute the statements and claims of notability in this article to reliable sources, and indeed make any substantial claims of notability, then the article should not remain here. If you figure out these sources after the AfD, and if the AfD closes in favour of deletion, you can bring them to deletion review to attempt to have a second AfD or outright overturn the deletion. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 22:47, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

delete all sources listed here are either COI or unreliable otherwise. If there are real outside sources to be found, they should have been found by now.DGG 00:27, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It should be noted that there are a few pages within Wikipedia that link directly to this page. Removing this page will create a few "red links" (no page exists yet message) on those pages. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Snooziums (talk • contribs).

Specifically, BBS Radio and Kryon. That's only two pages, and they can be easily delinked. I also notice that you added both links... -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 13:21, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete unless properly referenced from reliable sources to establish notability. Nothing there yet. NBeale

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.