The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. It's clear that there are sources out there and I appreciate the time that has gone into tracking them down. Hopefully they will be used to improve this article. I see no support for Deletion and a rough consensus to Keep this article. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:20, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Martti Lintulahti (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Far as I can tell doesn't meet WP:NBIO. Some GBooks hits in Finnish but done where he is the primary focus of anything, merely mentions. CoconutOctopus talk 15:23, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bilateral relations, Iraq, Finland, and Brazil. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 17:51, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak keep Of the fi.wp sourcing, the first is a three-para obituary in Helsingin Sanomat (30 November 1982). It feels a bit borderline w/r/t how much it contributes towards notability. There also looks to be a 1962 Suomen Kuvalehti biographical article which is fairly extensive at almost a full page. Facta 2001, a large Finnish encyclopedia, is also cited, but the entry could be anything from a list entry of "name (dob - dod) - job" to a larger article. I suspect the first, but have no access. The Elonet entry is a passing mention and does not contribute towards notability.
  Beyond these, the newspaper archive of National Library of Finland has a ton of hits, but as one would expect from a diplomat many of these are just passing mentions (NB: links require a researcher account). Some of the more promising ones are a shorter bio in Etelä-Suomen Sanomat on his 50th birthday (25 August 1967; page 7), a bio of his family in Länsi-Savo (focuses on daughter, but has a section on him; 28 December 1963; page 4), and another bio in Helsingin Sanomat on his 60th birthday (25 August 1977; page 15). There are also shorter news'y obituaries in at least Uusi Suomi ([1]).
  While big-ticket items are missing, I'd view this as dragging itself over the line of WP:GNG based on the number of medium-quality sources that go beyond passing mention. While it's unlikely to ever make it to GA, I'm having a hard time discounting every hit to the degree of claiming it'd completely un-notable. -Ljleppan (talk) 09:02, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. In addition to the above refs, I found a dissertation that describes Lintulahti's role in Finnish-Japanese trade in some detail. Not sure whether it counts towards notability, but there is also a 140 page Master's thesis titled China's foreign relations according to Martti Lintulahti. 31.1.1967 - 1.4.1969. I browsed through some of the newspaper clips in Helsingin sanomat. Most of them are short mentions, but on 17.3.1964 there is a 6-paragraph item about him being assigned as an attaché for the Finnish olympic team in Tokyo, and being awarded a Silver Cross of Merit for Finnish Physical Education and Sports. There is also a Who's Who in Finland 1978 page about him, which provides some personal details, even though it does not count towards notability. Jähmefyysikko (talk) 12:29, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks for taking the time to find these. While Master's theses are almost never acceptable sources, PhD theses are a bit more complicated; the relevant guideline is WP:SCHOLARSHIP. Probably not the strongest notability-wise, but doesn't hurt. Kuka kukin on (Who's Who in Finland; fi.wp) probably doesn't count since - like it's UK and US equivalent - it is largely based on information collected from the subjects themselves. See the WP:RSP entries for the UK and US editions. Ljleppan (talk) 17:19, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 00:56, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Draftify. Per WP:TNT, there is nothing of value to be kept and the text is thus in an unacceptable state. I will be watching the discussion in case it is improved. Geschichte (talk) 06:47, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• I'm going to need some help understanding how this two-sentence stub qualifies for TNT. Sure, it's a stub, but that is not a valid deletion reason in itself, and all the content that exists looks perfectly reasonable to me. -Ljleppan (talk) 08:36, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Draftification is not deletion. It would help if the reference can be formatted to appear intelligible in the English language. Geschichte (talk) 10:41, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  I've formatted the reference as a ((cite book)). W/r/t Draftification is not deletion, the WP:TNT essay describes a process of blow it up and start over, i.e. completely removing all existing content. I don't see much difference between "delete" and "drafity and delete all existing content", nor do I understand why either would be appropriate here. Ljleppan (talk) 14:52, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep – Per Ljleppan and Jähmefyysikko, there is a substantial amount of sources complementary to the subject of the article. Just needs improvements, it doesn't make sense WP:TNT. Svartner (talk) 02:12, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.