The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Majorly _{(o rly?)} 20:06, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mark Conner (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

This page was speedy-deleted for lack of notability. The speedy-deletion has been challenged. This is a procedural nomination. I abstain for now. Rossami (talk) 05:15, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• KeepDelete (see indent below) Five books and regular appearances on television sounds notable unless we can be given some reason to doubt these claims or the books are self-published. The article has citation problems which should be fixed, but I don't see a "citation" tag to prompt editors. That step should be tried before deletion. Noroton 06:03, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I couldn't find reputable sources, although Google News Archives brings up at least one article from The Age. Since it's only an article for sale, I don't know if it's just a trivial reference (and the headline doesn't indicate the story is necessarily about him). So I'll go along with delete. Noroton 14:34, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you give me the title, I can look it up. I have fixed the newspaper references using a citation template from WP:CITET (further help welcome). Natebailey 22:39, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - No reputable sources provided. Smee 07:52, 20 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]
• Delete no reputable sources, and the meaning of "published books" in the church ministry world is different than in the literature world: a published church book could be a 8 page, hand stapled essay on some church topic, published under the church's "publishing" agency. Ditto for the TV, ministry is usually on public access or local non-cable channels. ⇒ SWATJester ^{On Belay!} 10:08, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Aren't the references in The Age and Charisma reputable? Natebailey 21:40, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment If they were about him, then they would be. But one of them only mentions him in passing while talking about christmas - that's not a reference, it's a mention. It makes him look less notable, not more.Garrie 23:24, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment Fair enough. From another tack, do those articles establish him as an authority that the press regularly turns to for comment on church and religious issues? (which would establish notability?) Natebailey 13:22, 23 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment While that may be sensible and logical, it's not in accordance with WP:BIO that repeated trivial mention of a person, establishes notability for a biographical article. Trivial, or incidental coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not sufficient to establish notability (WP:BIO#Primary criterion)This is what the references you are referring to, provide.Garrie 21:43, 25 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment I love it when I'm right. Books are published under Conner ministries publications. Other "notable" authors within that church include his wife and his son. ⇒ SWATJester ^{On Belay!} 10:10, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete: I tagged it as a speedy delete because I don't consider doing your job to be notable. If your job is to be a pastor, that's good. If you are pastor at a large church, that's fine, too. If you publish a ton of books, that's rather meaningless in the age of print-on-demand, and it's not even very meaningful in niche publication markets like "spirituality." Therefore, it looked to me like some guy doing his stuff. I'm sure he has a ton of charisma, at least in one sense, but the authors look like the subjects, and the entirety looks so puffy that I suspected a boosterist agenda, and that combined with no serious claim for notability to make a speedy delete candidate. Utgard Loki 12:53, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - This subject is not suitable for an encyclopedia, so I recommend Delete. Mr. Berry 07:10, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete not reall 4 an encyclopedia. self promo? delete , amen --Zedco 11:01, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Mark has a national profile in the Australian church community; this is poorly reflected online. He teaches at churches and conferences in Australia, Singapore, the US and elsewhere. He has roles on a range of national boards. I am seeking further substantiation to support his notability. Natebailey 21:40, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment There are now nine citations from The Age and several other citations. Natebailey 22:39, 21 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • CommentI am removing all the citations that are about christmas, faith and politics. I will leave the ones in that are about Mark Conner, rather than just mentioning him in passing.Garrie 23:31, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Keep I added one of the books. We don't really have any criteria for ministers of religion, and I'm not sure of this one. But it certainly wasn't a valid speedy. It was not undoubtedly non-notable. Prod might have been more appropriate. DGG 00:26, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Senior pastor in one of Australia' largest churches, with large profile to match. Multiple media certs. Raffles mk 20:28, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Released a CD as part of the Integrity/Hosanna series that was popular about 15 years ago - see [1]. Mark Conner was the only Australian pastor to be involved in that series. Raffles mk 20:35, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per Garrie.--cj | talk 01:12, 24 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.