The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep and cleanup. - Sikon 09:41, 3 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. This article violates the following policies required by Wikipedia: Wikipedia:No original research, Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:Reliable sources | QzDaddy 02:06, 28 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep r430nb This page has more sources than Gen X, so how can it be deleted? Please, instead of deleting it, can't you give any specific suggestions? How can I change it so you wont delete it? (This question refers to all people voting)

1. Cite sources that have defined "MTV Generation" as a generational gap with the dates provide on this article. If there are no reliable sources to verify the this definition, then this article is therefore original research. | QzDaddy 12:06, 28 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the misinformation. Please don't be offended by the use of the word MTV Generation. It's only a name, which may have nothing to do with the Strauss and Howe generations, but it has been used to describe a group of people nonetheless. I have changed the article so that it is not a generational gap, but a cusp encompassing the tail end of X and the beginning of Y, but not a separate generation. This is verifiable in: ::::[1] and [2]

I plan to change the name of the article when this discussion is over to XY Cusp. [3] Actually, it is called Xer-Millennial cusp, but since there is no agreement yet on the name for Generation Y, I used XY Cusp. But I plan to refer to the MTV Generation in passing not as a generation, but as a description of the influence of MTV on this group of people within the article. r430nb

• Delete i am sorry to say because r430nb is trying but its just that you source statistical facts that have no point or are irrellivent, the sources are about drug statistics from a certain period not about the MTV gen per sey. I think your skills may be bettter suited to pages on drugs. The first three web pages [4], [5] and [6] don't really deal with MTV gen more X and Y. We need sources about the concept of a MTV generation existing in the manner laid out in this article. --Fabhcún 02:56, 28 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• Fabhcun! Part of those articles do acknowledge a gap or a cusp, which is not acknowledged by Generaiton Y and X pages in wikipedia. So, if I change the name so it is not a generation, but a cusp, would it still be ok?

[7] says There is one other group that's important to mention. The "Cuspers" are those who are born in the transition between generations. If you couldn't neatly place yourself in any of the above categories, then you're probably a Cusper. 1943-1947, 1962-1967 and 1978-1982 are each considered transition times. Many people born during these cusp periods identify with the generations on either side. Often, Cuspers feel like they belong to neither and belong to both. This population caught in the middle can play an important role in ministry. They are generationally bilingual. They can act as translators and ambassadors between the generations.

[8] Ok, I will delete that one

[9] Rainmaker's Martin feels it's necessary to classify the 1978 to 1988 cohorts as a unique, mini Gen-Y. According to Martin, "the problem with longer definitions is that they're too huge" -- in other words, they cover too much societal change. This analysis puts the Gen-Y teens of the early 1990s into a unique buffer zone between X-ers and Millennials.

I'll remove the drug section.

Again I appreciate the suggestions, you're good. Ok, I made the changes, but I'm still waiting on the question about: 1. the name change from a generation to cusp? (as that will cause a redirect) 2. Will you change your vote after I do it? r430nb

• Strong keep. There are problems with the article, but nothing that can't be fixed. The concept is notable and verifiable, I can't see how it can be deleted. Ifnord 03:52, 28 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• Good, Thank you! If there is any suggestions you have, please let me know. r430nb

• Keep if it can be cleaned up. There is a lot of data there but it lacks coherency. Is the huge list of bands actually necessary, for example? I was not sure what exactly the article was telling me. PS r430nb, may I suggest that you use the : character to get indenting so that your comments are easier to follow... and for deep discussion on how to improve the article, I suggest using the article's talk page. ++Lar 06:58, 28 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the help Lar! I removed the list of bands, but I plan on putting one or two examples of each musical type.

No worries. BTW r430nb, it is not necessary to respond to each and every comment from everyone expressing an opinion, especially if you're just commenting on their comment... that can make these quite long and hard to follow for the "closing admin". What may work better is to try to address all the concerns in one comment that you tack on the end of the discussion, instead of individually. Hope that helps. And thanks for signing your comments, it's hard to remember to do it every time but it really helps if you do. ++Lar 16:20, 29 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep for now, but revisit in a while. This article needs a scythe taken to it: the phrase "MTV generation" has some currency and deserves documentation, but there is no need to list every band, every film and every other cultural influence here; these are already covered in the articles for 1980s and 1990s, so much of this is redundant. Just zis  Guy, you know? ^[T]/_[C] AfD? 12:01, 28 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, but if every cultural influence is moved out, what should I keep? The list of bands has been moved over to the talk page for the article. Then, for the hard subject of the the phrase "MTV generation" I can't find a source matching it to the specific dates mentioned, like he said up above and that it describes a gap between X and Y. So, while I like the term MTV generation, it doesn't match the specific group we're trying to get. This term overlaps with any teenager born anytime who is influenced by MTV. The only claim we have to it is that we were born around the time it first came out, like how Generation Y has always been surrounded with computers and they don't know about a time before that. Believe me, I don't want to change the name "MTV generation" but to comply with Wikipedia, I have to change it to match the sources or else it's deleted. I hope this doesn't change your vote. r430nb

• Keep This is well known. At the very most - rewrite. ComputerJoe 13:17, 28 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Cool! r430nb

• Keep and cleanup. --King of All the Franks 13:33, 28 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Good, more power to you! r430nb

• Keep and cleanup also. Evil Eye 14:32, 28 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Good, thank you! r430nb

• Revamp It needs to be mainly redirected to Generation X and have most content cleaned out. 63.18.176.181 01:27, 29 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, but if I put any section of it in Generation X page, they will most likely put it in deletion again. r430nb

• Delete as NPOV/NOR violation. Monicasdude 02:46, 29 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Why? Please give examples? r430nb

• Keep and SERIOUS cleanup. This was the version of the article that I saw when I edited it. Now it looks like a tornado had gone through it. --Andylkl ^{[ talk! | c ]} 19:55, 29 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Haha, yeah, it does look like that. Thank you Andylkl and Thank you to everyone who votes "keep" and the love and support everyone gives to this article! I will divert all my other comments to the discussion page. Please look at the old version that Andylkl had because I had to rip it up due to the threat of deletion.

• Keep and revert from original into new. 217.129.169.105 00:46, 31 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Keep so that people of my generation aren't left to wonder why they don't fit in with Generation X or Y.70.124.135.121 23:45, 1 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep and cleanup per others. It's a popular/notable enough expression. - Liontamer 22:12, 2 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, as per others above. Piecraft 00:47, 3 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep and revert to last edit as per Andylkl with added changes, notable term and definition encompassing the cusp of both Gen X and Y. 82.155.1.151 00:49, 3 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.