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The result was Keep. — Scientizzle 17:04, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Non-notable EPFL robots[edit]

AfDs for this article:

    This is a deletion nomination of three articles about robotics projects. They are part of a walled garden of related articles by Nct (talk · contribs), who appears to be involved with these projects. None of these robots appears to have substantial coverage by reliable independent sources, failing our notability guideline. I will also be nominating the articles about the scientists involved in these projects for deletion for the same reason. Sandstein (talk) 23:52, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    These robots are notable robots which are used in a number of laboratories which were not involved in their conception (while mobile robotics is a highly competitive field). I am sorry to say that I cannot imagine any excuse "None of these robots appears to have substantial coverage by reliable independent sources". Sandstein, you should read the sources provided in the articles before making such statements. Rama (talk) 12:56, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I am from the EPFL indeed, yet I have not been involved in the Khepera at all, and not really in the e-puck (I only fixed a bug). I have moderately been involved in the development of the s-bot (I wrote its API). I think those robots have their place in Wikipedia, because they all were used by several different laboratories and produced dozen scientific publications. The Khepera, beside its Nature cover, returns 2220 hits when searched on google scholar (khepera mobile robot). The S-bot returns 107 hits on google scholar (s-bot mobile robot), was featured on Wired [1] and Slashdot [2]. A list of S-bot related coverage is available here [3]. Finally, the e-puck is newer, but already lead to several publications (22 hits on google scholar with e-puck mobile robot), including a SIGGRAPH one [4]. The two producers and several sellers is also uncommonly large for a research robot. --nct (talk) 13:21, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Delete. — Scientizzle 16:42, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Jonathan Munday[edit]

    Jonathan Munday (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Delete non-notable, has not made the requisite appearances in the Football League under notability guidelines for football players. Jonesy702 (talk) 00:03, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Comment- Just a quick note on the reason behind this Afd. Jonesy702 has listed this article for deletion in retaliation for the fact that I instigated an Afd on an article he was heavily involved with (see the deletion discussion here). For his future reference I would like to point out that Wikipedia is not a battleground.
    However, I cannot argue with the Afd- under current guidelines Munday fails notability criteria. It is worth noting that under the new guidelines proposed in this discussion Munday would meet the notability criteria, but consensus has yet to be reached on this matter. Either way, I won't be losing any sleep over this. Simon KHFC (talk) 00:46, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment - With regards to Simon’s above childish comment, my nomination to delete this article has nothing, whatsoever to do with the recently deletion of one the pages I used to regularly update.
    I’m sorry if I’m coming across a bit bitchy, but I can’t believe what I have just read in the above comment. It's nice to see you have taken the time to check me out... any chance of a christmas card do you think? Jonesy702 (talk) 20:11, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Delete. Three appearences in the Conference aren't notable either by the old or the proposed guidelines. Sebisthlm (talk) 12:32, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Comment- The first of the proposed guidelines states "has played for a fully professional club at a national level of the league structure". Munday has met those criteria. Simon KHFC (talk) 13:41, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment - Since when was the Conference National a fully professional league? Jonesy702 18:51, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    He didn't say it was. He said "has played for a fully professional club at a national level of the league structure" - Kidderminster are a fully pro club and the Conf Nat is a nationwide league..... ChrisTheDude 21:30, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I know... but what has that got to do with the price of fish? Point is, it doesn't qualify. Jonesy702 16:11, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Delete. — Scientizzle 17:08, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Martin R. Reyes[edit]

    Martin R. Reyes (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Verifiability in question. I can't find anything about the subject's notability. There is not even a mention of the subject in any University of the Philippines sites or the "Father of Selective Logging System of the Philippines" claim aside from the sole external link Lenticel (talk) 23:40, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Delete Just searched google and can't find any secondary source asserting its notability. The sole link is a primary source which, I think, is not accepted due to the page's unestablished notability. Secondary must be sourced first. --βritandβeyonce (talkcontribs)00:36, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment. Web of Science lists two of his articles, each cited by about half a dozen other articles. --Paularblaster (talk) 01:49, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment. I don't know if two articles satisfies notability rules. Besides, it still does not satisfy the subject's original claims. --Lenticel (talk) 02:37, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment Neither do I. I offer the information for what it might be worth. --Paularblaster (talk) 08:26, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Edit. We can edit the article using his website as a reference and add his findings he wrote in his articles instead. Besides, I've seen A LOT of articles using a single site as its reference. Starczamora 14:22, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment. I know many articles relies on one references. However, for this article, the source is not independent nor reliable.--Lenticel (talk) 12:58, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Delete can't verify much except for the little that are also unsupportable. --- Tito Pao 04:47, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Speedy Keep per WP:SNOW. (closed by non-admin) RMHED (talk) 00:27, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Uncyclopedia[edit]

    Uncyclopedia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Source of many major vandalism attempts on Wikipedia. See WP:DENY. Notability questioned. Arbiteroftruth (talk) 23:27, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Delete. James086Talk | Email 08:38, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Ladderman[edit]

    Ladderman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Article is about a non-notable comic from a single university campus. The only relevant result from a simple Google search was the link to the Wikipedia article. The talk page stated that the motivation for writing the article was to inspire the comic's creator to write more episodes. Parsecboy (talk) 23:28, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was keep. (Non admin closure). Qst 17:55, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Zoopy[edit]

    Zoopy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Hardly notable. I couldn't find any secondary sources. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 23:29, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Speedy Delete. KnowledgeOfSelf | talk 23:23, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    "Mediterra Naples"[edit]

    "Mediterra Naples" (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Unnotable planned community. Page used for marketing purposes most likely. Article created by Director of Sales of planning group. Leeannedy (talk) 23:19, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Concur. I've tagged it with db-advert. Michaelbusch (talk) 23:20, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was Delete. Tikiwont 09:19, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Bloody Lucifer[edit]

    Bloody Lucifer (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This page has no sources, and there are no hits for a graphic novel called "Bloody Lucifer" anywhere on Google. It seems to be bad fanfiction at best, vandalism at worst, and should thusly be removed from Wikipedia as quickly as possible. TheJoust (talk) 23:16, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was speedy keep per criteria 1, nomination withdrawn and no other delete opinions present. GRBerry 15:39, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Spanish Courts for Violence against Women[edit]

    Spanish Courts for Violence against Women (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Non-encyclopedic collection of newspaper articles, including extensive copyright violations (direct translation of copyrighted articles from the spanish media) and a final section named "editors comment" (now erased) which confirms that this is nothing else than an essay. It has been deleted 6 times from WP.es Varano (talk) 23:07, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was speedy deleted by User:Melburnian (CSDG10). Non-admin closure. shoy (words words) 00:17, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Aboriginal Liberation Army[edit]

    Aboriginal Liberation Army (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    With members such as Gavin Wanganeen and Neville Bonner, I suspected a hoax. When I saw one of this editors previous contributions - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Australian anti communist organization - this suspicion was strengthened. No evidence of actual existence, let alone notability can be found. Mattinbgn\talk 23:22, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was speedy delete. Spellcast (talk) 01:18, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Lindsey Hancock[edit]

    Lindsey Hancock (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    In my opinion, the sources don't show that this actor meets the notability criteria. The only reliable source cited isn't about this person, but about Matt Riddlehoover. Prod removed by creator without comment or improvement of sources. FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 23:11, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:37, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Fratricide (band)[edit]

    Fratricide (band) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Article was previously deleted as CSD A7 (when listed as Fratricide (Band)), after moving to the correct title, another editor re-tagged the article. I elected to move the article to AfD rather than re-deleting in order to allow discussion.

    Looking over the primary author's talk page, there seems to be a question of whether this band's subgenre actually exists. In any case, the article seems to be mostly WP:OR and doesn't establish notability. No references exist. Looks like a delete to me. Tijuana Brass (talk) 23:08, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:37, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Samantha Neville[edit]

    Samantha Neville (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Both the actress and the event described appear to have only occurred in the creator's head - 0 Ghits, for example - but the article is being recreated as fast as it is deleted and, strictly speaking, "hoax" isn't a CSD criterion. So here it comes.➔ REDVEЯS would like to show you some puppies 23:07, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Delete. Tikiwont 09:23, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    3D Entertainment[edit]

    3D Entertainment (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This was speedy deleted before, and while it looks a lot nicer, it's still blatant WP:SPAM. Dougie WII (talk) 22:35, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Delete. — Scientizzle 16:45, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Compressive Rock[edit]

    Compressive Rock (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Made up genre of music. The only hit on google is this article. All other hits are about geology. Ridernyc (talk) 22:29, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    It's insane I just spent 4 hours going through everything listed in list of rock genres, amazingly this is the only I found that was totally made up. However out of the dozens of pages there are maybe 5 that are well written and sourced. I plan on doing some major editing to industrial rock. What really bothers me is that there is a wikipedia project for music genres and they seem not at all concerned that most of the articles in the project are trash. Ridernyc (talk) 23:08, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, it was the only made up one in the list. Anyway, thanks for going through that, and I know what you mean about the WikiProject and the state of the articles. It is one of the harder areas to work in, though. Rocket000 (talk) 00:47, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree and I know, I'm the person who took on cleaning up concept album. I would just like to see more projects be like the Tolkein project group, realize you have a ton of issues with the articles you already have so stop everything and just clean and merge everything. Ridernyc (talk) 01:23, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Delete per BIO & SNOW SkierRMH (talk) 04:23, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Leah Herz[edit]

    Leah Herz (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Creator contested prod. Only claim of notability competing in the "Blue Team" of a reality show. The notability claim makes A7 unaplicable. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 22:15, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was delete. DS (talk) 05:31, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Astra serpent plant[edit]

    Apparent hoax. No Google hits for "Astra serpent plant" or the binomial "Phalaenopsis sirtalis" (which seems to have been constructed by combining the genus name of an orchid with the species name of the common garter snake). If this plant were real, there would be material about it all over the Web. Deor (talk) 21:51, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:36, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Ayoub Al-Jawaldeh[edit]

    Ayoub Al-Jawaldeh (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Incomplete nomination by 86.146.198.25 (talk · contribs). S/he writes on talk page: "The person in this article is not famous at all, nothing interesting about his achievements; he is a nothing more than a common person living in a Jordanian village". Procedural nomination; no opinion is being expressed by me. ➔ REDVEЯS isn't wearing pants 11:16, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:36, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Ta'a Chume[edit]

    AfDs for this article:
    Ta'a Chume (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    No assertion of real-world notability. Article is entirely in-universe plot summary. --EEMIV (talk) 04:41, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. Pigman 05:47, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Active pause system[edit]

    Active pause system (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Appears to be a neologism. I can't see this expanding much beyond a dictionary definition. Pagrashtak 21:09, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Nobody's accusing you of having made up the term; rather, the term was created for a single game and hasn't been used by anyone since. It was made up for that game. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 03:15, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    It was made up for which game? There are references to the term "active pause" being used for four seperate games. Jecowa (talk) 06:25, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Which brings up an interesting point about print references. They are allowed of course, but it's also easier to use them when it's not really true. Anyone reading this have any of those mags, and can check? I'm not by a long shot calling you a liar or anything, but it still seems a bit ORish as it stands now. If nothing else, it's still basically a definition and nothing more, as it stands now. EDIT: Yeah oops, I was misreading those as print refs. Sigh. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 17:07, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    You can check them all yourself. The links are all on the article. Here's them for you again if you are having trouble with the reference section.
    Jecowa 16:32, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Here are some more articles which discuss the topic: [9][10][11][12]. I'm not sure how reliable the second site is. Also, the last two links are interviews with developers. I believe the WPVG:Sources article says that dev talk is OK as long as they're talking about their own game. SharkD 04:17, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Keep. Davewild 20:46, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Harry Solomon[edit]

    Harry Solomon (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This is a non-notable character that does not have real world information to establish notability. It is currently covered in the main article, and there is no current assertion for improvement. TTN (talk) 20:39, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    • "SPACE CASE: TO 3RD ROCK'S FRENCH STEWART, STARDOM IS AN ALIEN CONCEPT". People Weekly. 13 May 1996.
    • Sharon Rainsbury. "Simply French". Sydney Herald Sun. 9 July 2000.
    • James Endrst. "CLUELESS, HAPLESS HARRY IS `ROCK' SOLID SENSATION". The (Memphis) Commercial Appeal. 2 January 1998.
    • Alan Sepinwall. "French twist: `3rd Rock' has Stewart on a roll". The (Newark) Star-Ledger. 19 November 1997.
    • Ian Spelling. "`ROCK'S' SOLOMON MADE A FACE THAT'S STUCK". Chicago Tribune. 16 January 1997. Zagalejo^^^ 05:24, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Do any of those actually go in-depth or is is just a bunch of little bits like the one that you added? That kind of information belongs either on a character list or a general casting section for the main article, rather than a character article. Characters need real meat in order to establish notability. TTN (talk) 19:45, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • I think they provide a decent amount of info. If you look at the titles, you'll see that two of them are primarily about the Harry character. I just haven't had time to add everything I could. And I'm sure there's other content available in the DVD extras. Zagalejo^^^ 00:43, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • I've added a little bit more. Zagalejo^^^ 02:24, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was Speedy delete under CSD A7 - no assertion of notability. James086Talk | Email 08:41, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Twin Disc[edit]

    Twin Disc (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Orphaned, no indication of notability. Rtphokie (talk) 20:09, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was withdrawn by nominator. —Caesura(t) 22:55, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    God is Dead[edit]

    God is Dead (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Fails Wikipedia:Notability (books). —Caesura(t) 20:02, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was merge to Contemporary Christian music. Mangojuicetalk 13:24, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Christian soft rock[edit]

    Christian soft rock (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Fails WP:RS, so questionable whether this is a "real" genre. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Christian ska. Punkmorten (talk) 20:25, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    here, and here; as a listings category here; there’s a “Christian soft rock station 104.7/The Fish”; the term is used in Maury Dean, Rock ‘n’ Roll Gold Rush (Algora 2003), ISBN 0875862071, p. 377: Pat Boone as a “Christian soft rock crooner” (found on google books); and there’s a rather unflattering reference in the Arkansas Times of Oct. 4, 2007: “after listening to a solid hour of contempo-Christian soft rock, we can tell you that — bar none — it is the crappiest music in the universe”. Also half a dozen peronal reviews on Amazon, and then I got fed up and stopped going through the hits (there were a few thousand). So it does seem to be a genre that people find useful, however suspect it might be in terms of taste. --Paularblaster (talk) 22:13, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was delete. Pigman 05:51, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    List of Christian music videos[edit]

    List of Christian music videos (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Irrelevant intersection, how exactly is a Christian music video special or what intrinsic noteworthiness does it have? And why should WP have a list of every music video? Furthermore a list is often a collection of articles, i.e. links, but this is just a directory. Punkmorten (talk) 20:27, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    • Please be careful to not use the "cruft" term. Its connotations of uselessness is insulting to fans of things. Cruft to you is golden to others. Royalbroil 14:57, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was merge to Contemporary Christian music. Mangojuicetalk 13:32, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Christian electronic music[edit]

    Christian electronic music (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    "Christian electronic music is Christian music which employs electronic music." Wow! Totally irrelevant intersection. Reads like a directory. Punkmorten (talk) 20:30, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was merge to Contemporary Christian music. Mangojuicetalk 13:28, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Christian bubblegum pop[edit]

    Christian bubblegum pop (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Another self-invented "genre" that fails WP:RS. Just someone who put two things together. Punkmorten (talk) 20:32, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was merge to Contemporary Christian music. Mangojuicetalk 13:33, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Christian girl group[edit]

    Christian girl group (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    How is this different from any girl group - someone just made up a combination - fails WP:RS. "Christian boy band" was prodded out of existance as early as last year. Punkmorten (talk) 20:37, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Delete—The statement which was taken as an admission of the list being arbitrary was placed by the first editor and reads "Because classifying music by genre can be arbitrary, these groupings are generalized and many artists appear on multiple lists." This does seem to be an admission of creating an arbitrary list. The suggested merger is not a doable proposition as that list article is a meta-list, a list-of-lists, and not an item-list which would support in-merger of an item-list. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 13:43, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    List of Christian R&B/soul artists[edit]

    List of Christian R&B/soul artists (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Self-admitted arbitrary list. Don't be fooled by the reference, as it has nothing to do with this specific subject, really. Punkmorten (talk) 20:50, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was withdrawn by nominator. —Caesura(t) 22:55, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Ron Currie Jr.[edit]

    Ron Currie Jr. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Fails WP:BIO. —Caesura(t) 19:59, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:36, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Characters in the Sims 2[edit]

    Characters in the Sims 2 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Simple fan cruft Pharmboy (talk) 19:57, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Keep. --TeaDrinker (talk) 03:25, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    The Hive (Resident Evil)[edit]

    The Hive (Resident Evil) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article asserts no notability through reliable sources, and as such is just an in-universe repetition of plot elements from the Resident Evil video game and film articles. This is thus all duplicative, this can be safely deleted. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:50, 27 November 2007 (UTC) Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:50, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Notability is not inherited, and you need to show its notable on its own to sustain its own article. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:50, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Almost the entire film of Resident Evil is set in The Hive. Best, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 22:55, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    But it needs to demonstrate actual referencing, like development and creation information. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 04:11, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Um, there isn't much info known about construction and development as it was briefly mentioned in Apocalypse, however there is more info given out in the first film, which suggests that the facility was the HQ for finding out the T-Virus, and is also important as it is the origin of the outbreak in the film series, considering 3 films have been released, which reference the facility in all 3 films, with a sequel also planned. And the outbreak has also played a major role in Extinction, as a replica facility was recreated in Las Vegas, and also features almost the exact laser corridor sequence as the first movie. So this article has enough information regarding the facility, however if you feel like pestering and nominating articles for deletion, why not try, The Simpson House, considering not much is known about it's construction, or why not Arkham Asylum while your at it. Empty2005 (talk) 05:15, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm sorry if following wikipedia guidelines is such a bother, but some people feel articles actually have to be good at some point to stay on wikipedia. And as you point out, nothing is known, so it has no hope of being improved. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 16:23, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Wow talk about aload of shit, why not place 742 Evergreen Terrace on afd?, it also has no sources to back up the content, and it pretty much uses plot points aswell! Yeah thats what i thought ! Empty2005 (talk) 23:50, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Then read the nomination and discussion. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 23:33, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Well then, as far as I can see, the page has a fare amount of information. There are also various references. I'd say that you shouldn't delete the page and just clean it up. Mrx9898 (talk) 23:55, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    But if its not notable, what is there to save? How do you "clean up" an article that cannot be referenced? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 02:36, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    It is notable. It's the primary setting of the first resident evil film, and also features again in extinction. I think it's also referenced to in some of the games? even so, I think it's good enough to remain an article. If you wanted to merge it into the resident evil article then you could, but I think it would make it look sloppy, and long. Mrx9898 (talk) 06:05, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was delete. This is a Secret account 17:46, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Umbrella Biohazard Countermeasure Service[edit]

    Umbrella Biohazard Countermeasure Service (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article asserts no notability through reliable sources, and as such is just an in-universe repetition of plot elements from the Resident Evil video game and film articles. This is thus all duplicative, this can be safely deleted. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:47, 27 November 2007 (UTC) Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:47, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    References, not "being in a movie" justify notability. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:25, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    It seems to get a lot of hits. Best, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 22:26, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    It seems to be mostly wikipedia mirrors, so not that impressive. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:36, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    The shear number is really impressive (admittedly, I didn't even expect that many hits). Best, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 22:39, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    LOL what's impressive? There is not one reference in the hits! :) Please be serious if you want to keep debating this articles notability, or any other for that matter. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:42, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    The fact that the topic has attracted that much interest is impressive. Besides, why focus on deleting stuff people worked on rather than improving articles? Best, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 22:43, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Why have an encyclopedia filled with trivia and junk? And besides, I know a lot of the people who help delete articles, and they are some of the most active people in building up articles, especially fiction ones. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:46, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    The fact that so many of our contributors are willing to volunteer time and effort to these articles suggest that a lot of our editors and readers do not regard them as "junk." Best, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 22:52, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    And when its gone, they will contribute to articles that actually improve the encyclopedia. Judgesurreal777 17:12, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Not necessarily, some may just be turned off from the project. Plus, in many's opinion these sorts of articles do improve the encyclopedia. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 18:33, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. Technically, consensus leaned to "keep". However, I found the delete arguments stronger in this case. Article is over 20 months old, does not have a single WP:RS or WP:V citation in the whole thing, and does not meet the guidelines of WP:FICT. While some participants said they would add citations, as of now, three days past the end date of this AfD, none had been added. If you think I've made a mistake in this decision, please take it to WP:DRV for consideration. Pigman 23:42, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Raccoon Police Department[edit]

    Raccoon Police Department (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article asserts no notability through reliable sources, and as such is just an in-universe repetition of plot elements from the Resident Evil video game and film articles. This is thus all duplicative, this can be safely deleted. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:47, 27 November 2007 (UTC) Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:47, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    That is not an assertion of notability for the police department, but only for the movies and the games, just because they are popular doesn't mean that this department is. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:53, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    If millions of people are familiar with it, then it is notable. Regards, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 21:54, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Add the sources to make it meet WP:FICT otherwise you're just spouting nonsense. RMHED (talk) 22:07, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    For the sources, see this and also, please remember to maintain civility. I may strongly disagree with people, but I am not accusing them of "spouting nonsense." Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 22:23, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    A list of Google hits hardly qualifies as significant reliable sources. You are right, nonsense was entirely the wrong word to use, you are spouting irrelevancies. RMHED (talk) 23:03, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    They're relevant in that they demonstrate considerable interest in the subject. Best, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 23:05, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Indeed, here's another subject of considerable intereset.[14]. RMHED (talk) 00:47, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    But I don't propose merging I, I'm propsing its deletion due to lack of notability. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 01:49, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I would say merge if the main article wasn't already so long, but it is, and clearly trying to merge that much information into an already-lengthy would be harmful, so the vote is to keep it as a sub-article. I think the topic is clearly notable when viewed as a part of whole. Torc2 (talk) 01:54, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Post them here and I will help, post a bunch of them and I will also withdraw the nomination. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 04:40, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    References will come from the game, just as the Characters of Final Fantasy VIII article has been constructed. This is actually an FA, so I'm assuming they will suffice? Gamer Junkie 05:05, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    No that wont suffice at all. As you can see in the Featured article you linked to, we need development commentary, design sketches, that kind of stuff, simply citing the game would show a lack of notability, which is the current issue. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 05:07, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Pictures are already in the article and the commentary referencing only applies to the section regarding character development, which isn't a part of this article, so how is that a valid reference? And this article is notable because you'll find none of this in the main context. Searching for R.P.D. and getting Resident Evil is akin to searching for Pontiac Firebird and being redirected to an article about cars. Gamer Junkie 05:19, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    But the lack of development and creation info is the whole point of this nomination, if it doesn't have that, it isn't notabile enough to have its own article, because notability says it will have that stuff. And I didn't suggest redirecting, I said was should delete it. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 16
    17, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
    Who's to say that it can't be- or won't be- added later? If you delete it, it might simply be created again. I'm also becoming very tired of people applying parts of policy and guideline information that they agree with and simply ignoring what they don't. Notability also states that:
    • "Substantive coverage in reliable sources suggests that the subject is notable."
    • "The particular topics and facts within an article are not each required to meet the standards of the notability guidelines."
    • "This page in a nutshell: A topic is presumed to be notable if it has received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject."
    Not only this, but guidelines are not policy. They're not absolutely compulsory and aren't set in stone, meaning there is no specific rule applying to the notability of any one article. I reiterate, the article needs to be improved. Deleting information is detrimental to everything Wikipedia stands for. Gamer Junkie 05:33, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Whether policy or not, Wikipedia should not be an indescriminant collection of information, and this is just plot recitation without reliable sourcing. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 16:53, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Regardless of what you believe it to be, and allow me to emphasise what YOU believe it to be, there's nothing to say the article can't be improved with a little effort and time. It falls within notability and therefore the purpose of this nomination is null and void. Gamer Junkie 07:33, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    If you knew anything about Wikipedia guidelines and policies, you would realize that you have demonstrated no proof that this is in any way notable, and you need to in order to save the article. Read this WP:FICTION, and you will understand. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:44, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    There is no proof it has notability, unless you can establish it, there is no point to voting "keep". Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:58, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was same old Wikipedia game. DS (talk) 15:40, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    The Wikipedia game[edit]

    Lacks verifiability and notability. Already exists in the Wikipedia namespace, where it belongs. —Caesura(t) 19:46, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    if it is that popular then people must want to find out about it, theres an article on critisisms of wikipedia, why not the wikipedia game, if this really is an encyclopedia, it need ALL information! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sakmadik (talkcontribs) 16:37, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Too late. Go to WP:DRV if you feel that this article can be salvaged.--WaltCip (talk) 17:40, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was delete and redirect to List of Resident Evil characters. Neil  13:41, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Lisa Trevor[edit]

    Lisa Trevor (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article asserts no notability through reliable sources, and as such is just an in-universe repetition of plot elements from the Resident Evil video game articles. This is thus all duplicative, this can be safely deleted. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:42, 27 November 2007 (UTC) Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:42, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    It has also been previously nominated for deletion two years ago and has not improved. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:44, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was. Delete. Not by !votecounting, but by strength of arguments. The article provides no "non-fictional perspective", no "out-of-universe referencing", no reliable independent sources at all (an online in-universe game guide, a printed version of the same game guide, and a blog text). Fram (talk) 15:45, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Talos (Resident Evil)[edit]

    Talos (Resident Evil) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article asserts no notability through reliable sources, and as such is just an in-universe repetition of plot elements from the Resident Evil video game articles. This is thus all duplicative, this can be safely deleted. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:42, 27 November 2007 (UTC) Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:42, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    This would be a great time to verify it by adding out of universe referencing to assert its notability. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:51, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Please see the google search link below. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 22:56, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Add the sources to make it meet WP:FICT otherwise you're just spouting nonsense. RMHED (talk) 22:03, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    See this for example and notice such headlines as "TALOS and its importance in Resident Evil canon". Best, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 22:19, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I think you may have posted to the wrong AFD, i did not request any reference be added that I have seen. Also, I haven't seen the article improve yet either. Judgesurreal777 16:56, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    My mistake, the reference wasn't your suggestion. Nonetheless it was added, and the entire article was in fact extensively rewritten to provide non-fictional perspective. Your refusal to acknowledge that fact seems to suggest an agenda other than improving Wikipedia. Zyid 22:50, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    How so? Where are the references? Judgesurreal777 16:56, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    At the bottom of the page. Zyid 22:50, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Please read WP:FICTION, because those are not the kind of references the article needs, at least not the ONLY ones it needs. Judgesurreal777 23:16, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was NO CONSENSUS. Waggers (talk) 14:21, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Hunter (Resident Evil)[edit]

    Hunter (Resident Evil) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article asserts no notability through reliable sources, and as such is just an in-universe repetition of plot elements from the Resident Evil video game articles. This is thus all duplicative, this can be safely deleted. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:41, 27 November 2007 (UTC) Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:41, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Again, the point of the nomination is to assert WITH REFERENCES that this topic is notable, simply saying it is wont do. After all, Notability isn't inherited, so just because Resident Evil and the games are notable doesn't mean every monster in it deserves its own article. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:37, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Something that millions of people in multiple countries are familiar with is inherently notable. Best, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 21:40, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    There is no such thing as inherited notability, all articles must assert individual notability. Just because Superman likes his new wallpaper, doesn't mean we can create Wallpaper(Superman) based off of his popularity. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:51, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, I would agree on not needing an article on Superman's wallpaper, but a character is not wallpaper. Best, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 21:53, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    True, but just like his wallpaper, this article needs to assert its notability to have an article on wikipedia and not, say, a fan wiki. We either need to show that it has creator commentary, design sketches, development information and that kind of stuff, or it shouldn't have its own artciel. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:02, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    But the articles does assert notability: "As a result, the Hunters have become one of the best-known creatures in the series." Best, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 22:15, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    But you will notice there are no references to that, or for anything else in the article for that matter. It comes down to having references or not; if there are, great, if not, delete. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:21, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree that references should always be added. Best, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 22:25, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    There are no references in the link you posted. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:38, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, there are. They even made a toy of the character. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 22:41, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    That is it? That wont sustain a whole article, that would probably fit as a part of a popular culture section for the main Futurama article. If we find a lot more, thats what we call notability. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:49, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Why would a character from Resident Evil be in a Futurama article? --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 22:55, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    If someone were to make a computer game out of it and sell a few million copies, and get it reviewed--which tends to go together--then yes it would be notable. I am not sure whether all this is a necessary part of the world, but it is part, and we should cover it, it as much detail as the material will support. DGG (talk) 07:33, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    No, it would not. Tell any extra in a movie with thousands of extras, being an extra in that movie, no matter how famous, doesn't make you famous or notable. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 16:21, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    If "V" is a core principle, then this article fails miserably, since it has not one reference, and there isn't even a reference section. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 17:49, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 11:24, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Max Winters[edit]

    Max Winters (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article asserts no notability through reliable sources, and as such is just an in-universe repetition of plot elements from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie article. This is thus all duplicative, this can be safely deleted. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:37, 27 November 2007 (UTC) Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:37, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:35, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Agent Bishop[edit]

    Agent Bishop (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article asserts no notability through reliable sources, and as such is just an in-universe repetition of plot elements from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cartoon and episode articles. This is thus all duplicative, this can be safely deleted. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:36, 27 November 2007 (UTC) Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:36, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:34, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Self-declared art movement[edit]

    Self-declared art movement (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Near orphan about a questionable "art movement"; unreferenced since September 2006. kingboyk (talk) 19:13, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:34, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    List of HD DVD movies[edit]

    List of HD DVD movies (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Is this worth keeping around? If it's not even close to complete now, is there any hope of it ever being complete as the real list continues to grow. A similar list for Blue Ray disks has already been deleted. Rtphokie (talk) 19:28, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. This is a Secret account 17:49, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    List of robots (TMNT)[edit]

    List of robots (TMNT) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article asserts no notability through reliable sources, and as such is just an in-universe repetition of plot elements from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cartoon articles. This is thus all duplicative, this can be safely deleted. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:27, 27 November 2007 (UTC) Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:27, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Delete, has no reliable independent sources at all. Fram (talk) 12:50, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Skyrim[edit]

    Skyrim (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article asserts no notability through reliable sources, and as such is just an in-universe repetition of plot elements from the Elder Scrolls games. As Wikipedia is not a gameguide, and this is all duplicative, this can be safely deleted. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:20, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Was also nominated two years ago and has seen no improvement. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:21, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    That doesn't justify keeping it, especially since it has established no notability and has no references. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 01:49, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    And I promise we wont, because there is nothing "good" about the article in an encyclopedic way, as there is no evidence of notability. After all, Wikipedia is not an indescriminate collection of information. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 16:47, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    nothing in fiction has literal real-world notability. Rather, it's notable because of a notable role in notable fiction, and because the fiction has the real world notability. that's the meaning of the guideline that contributes towards building the encyclopedia. DGG (talk) 03:42, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    That's not true. Zeus is fictional, yet has real-world notability. Yes, he appears in notable fiction, but the fictional concept itself also has real-world notability independent of that and has made an impact in real life. Your argument is that notability is inherited, which is not true. The Pearl is notable fiction, and Kino is a notable role within that notable fiction, but this not not automatically grant Kino real-world notability. Pagrashtak 18:29, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    That isn't true, it is crucial for fictional articles to be sourced independently. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:19, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:33, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    "Don Festge"[edit]

    "Don Festge" (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Vanity page fails to meet WP:BIO. Wrote a couple of unsuccessful screenplays, unknown books, and was an extra a couple of times. Only trivial coverage by secondary sources. —Caesura(t) 19:15, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Speedy Delete by DMacks. closed by non-admin. RMHED (talk) 19:52, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


    Donna Fish[edit]

    Donna Fish (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    I don't think she satisfies the notability guidelines in WP:BIO. An eating disorder expert, who has had a TV appearance as an expert for a show, published a book, for which she has had interviews in magazines, according to the article. (Better Homes and Gardens, USA Today, amongst others). Two radio appearances. No reliable sources. This is the best I could find in the first 60/245 Google hits. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 19:13, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was Withdrawn by nominator. non-admin closure SYSS Mouse (talk) 20:21, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Naitō Tadayuki[edit]

    Naitō Tadayuki (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Is this photographer notable? This short article has little more than weasel words. Rtphokie (talk) 19:08, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Keep per Paularblaster's addition of practically everything. RMHED (talk) 00:53, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was Delete with a redirect to Numidia. — Scientizzle 16:48, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Numidium[edit]

    Numidium (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article asserts no notability through reliable sources, and as such is just an in-universe repetition of plot elements from the Elder Scrolls games. As Wikipedia is not a gameguide, and this is all duplicative, this can be safely deleted. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:07, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Keep. Davewild 20:53, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Republic of Lomar[edit]

    Republic of Lomar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Unreferenced, near orphan, of Lomar%22&btnG=Search only 800 Google hits. kingboyk (talk) 19:02, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was Keep / Withdrawn by nominator SkierRMH (talk) 04:28, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Park Hee Byung[edit]

    Park Hee Byung (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Article fails WP:NOTABILITY Hu12 (talk) 19:05, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was deleted. WP:SNOW CSD A7 and the fact that the author himself is blanking it. Someone is upset and there's no point in prolonging the agony. Docg 18:13, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Regis Silva[edit]

    Regis Silva (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    An interesting article, unclear to me whether notable or not.

    The article was created by

    apparently the bio subject, comprising a self-bio licensed under GFDL. Most of this was "puff", but there did seem to be relevant claims in it that were by their nature verifiable. These included the following statements and claims:

    • "First solo exhibition at the Pacific Grove Arts Center, 2005, with feature-length pieces in both The Monterey Herald's Go! Magazine and the Monterey County Weekly."
    • "Other exhibitions at San Francisco's Blue Room Gallery, the Muckenthaler Cultural Center, the Pajaro Valley Art Center Gallery , and the Day of the Dead Celebration at the Museum of Art and History, Santa Cruz."

    There is an AFD principle that an article on a genuinely notable subject should not be deleted just because it was created as a promotion piece. The above are borderline claims, and made promotionally. Nonetheless if verified there would be a legitimate question whether multiple exhibitions and coverage constitutes sufficient evidence that this is not a "run of the mill" artist. That evidence is not presented (yet); nor (if it was) would I be expert enough to assess these claims in the art world. Hence this AFD listing to examine those questions.

    Other relevant Wikipedia policies and practices:

    1. Brief mentions in the media may not be evidence of notability; Wikipedia looks at long term historic notability.
    1. Media that cover a subject (ie, person or other topic) may not be good evidence of that subject's notability, if they are themselves indiscriminative, or small scale and local, and so on. (For example a magazine in a town of 500 people will give coverage to very minor events that do not indicate the events are notable, and a magazine with a "popular culture" section must find some elements of popular culture to write about each issue whether or not these are discriminatingly chosen).

    Left to discussion to test evidence, and claims, and judge notability. FT2 (Talk | email) 18:41, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


    • First of above, Googling "Pacific Grove Arts Center" 2005 "Regis Silva" gives two non-Wiki hits from the same source, an article written by "Kai Laiolo" a week ago, who according to Google, has written precisely nothing else.
    • Second of above, Googling most of these venues + "Regis Silva" produces similar results.
    • Most sites obtained by Googling "Regis Silva" seem to be mostly promotional sites, these which aren't do not satisfy "long term historic notability", certainly not going back beyond 2005. --Rodhullandemu (please reply here - contribs) 21:33, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment Henrik's reference is the one I referred to under "First of above"; I don't regard it as a strong source given the efforts which appear to have been made to put Regis Silva's name just about anywhere it can be put. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rodhullandemu (talkcontribs) 00:00, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Yep, I noticed that later. I haven't been able to verify out how much of an WP:RS that magazine is, so I'm changing my mind, per the reasoning of others. henriktalk 06:45, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. --Oxymoron83 09:57, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Pantheons of Tamriel[edit]

    Pantheons of Tamriel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article asserts no notability through reliable sources, and as such is just an in-universe repetition of plot elements from the Elder Scrolls games. As Wikipedia is not a gameguide, and this is all duplicative, this can be safely deleted. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 18:18, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was no consensus. If you wish to pursue the merge discussion, please do so at the talk page. ···日本穣? · Talk to Nihonjoe 01:44, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Tiber Septim (Elder Scrolls)[edit]

    Tiber Septim (Elder Scrolls) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article asserts no notability through reliable sources, and as such is just an in-universe repetition of plot elements from the Elder Scrolls games. As Wikipedia is not a gameguide, and this is all duplicative, this can be safely deleted. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 18:18, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Comment - Could it be shortend and moved into Elder Scrolls? Just a thought. --Pmedema (talk) 20:35, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Merge to Elder Scrolls Characters: I feel that all the ES Characters collectively are notable enough to get a single page. -Ratwar (talk) 04:58, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Delete. — Scientizzle 18:22, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    List of christian ska bands[edit]

    List of christian ska bands (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Despite the references, this is a problematic list. It's incomplete and may not be able to satisfy a proper standard of notability. Weak delete, but I think it's good to discuss this. Shalom (HelloPeace) 17:59, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:33, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    DominKnow Inc.[edit]

    DominKnow Inc. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Someone marked this for speedy deletion (A7) on Newpages patrol. Since I disagree, I'm nominating it for deletion as a procedural courtesy. No opinion. Shalom (HelloPeace) 17:54, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was keep without consensus. Another Afd nom might be fair if done after three more months, if no further sources of any kind are found. Bearian (talk) 20:18, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Mushroom (Mario)[edit]

    Mushroom (Mario) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Wikipedia is not a video game guide. Perhaps the mushroom is iconic enough to be culturally notable; if so, that can be included in Mario (series). However, we do not need and should not have an article describing the gameplay effects of absolutely every incarnation of the Mario mushroom. Chardish (talk) 17:37, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    I write "mushrooms make Mario big." I reference a Super Mario game. You can check the game to see if what I said is true. That's verifiability. (Though I wouldn't necessarily cite this fact because it's common knowledge. According to WP:V, "Material challenged or likely to be challenged, and all quotations, must be attributed to a reliable, published source.")
    I write "the mushroom from the Mario series has greatly impacted the world." I cite The New York Times. That's notability. -Rocket000 (talk) 23:09, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh and I didn't mean "gaming magazines in general", I meant Nintendo itself (the games, the guides that come with them, Nintendo Power magazine, ect.). Nintendo establishes verifiability. Other (third-party) gaming magazines would establish notability. Rocket000 (talk) 23:13, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree that we are trying to say the same thing (semantics). I completely understand what you mean by verifiability now (and yes, I can play the game to see that Mario gets bigger when he "eats" a mushroom). What's interesting to me is your pseudo-quote: "the mushroom from the Mario series has greatly impacted the world" and then say "New York Times". That's exactly my point. In my opinion (which is what AfD's are all about, really), is that because the New York Times, the LA times, the Daily News, or USA today, or anybody outside Nintendo, have never specifically written about the mushrooms in Marioworld It proves that they, in and of themselves, are not notable outside the in-universe notability. Hence, they don't need there own article, but merely a sidenote in the article about the Mario brothers and Marioworld. Also, thank you for your clarificatin of my assumption about what you meant in regards to "nintendo." "nintendo, meaning the game, the magazine, the user guides (what you cite) do not, IMO, "establish verifiability" because they are "in-universive". Again, Mario is notable. The Mario empire is notable. The mushrooms are part of that universe and should be stated as such, but not as their own independent article. Sidenote, thank you for your civility in this discussion. It is much appreciated! Keeper | 76 23:23, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I think part of the problem in this conversation is that you're confusing the Wikipedia definitions of verifiability and notability. Independent sources are needed for the latter, but not for the former. Yes, an article has to be both, and so independent sources are needed, but the facts of the article can be verified by non-independent reliable sources. Pinball22 (talk) 14:15, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Independent sources establish the notability of the topic. Once a topic's notability is established, primary sources can be used to support the article and are considered verifiable, but independent sources should be used whenever possible to maintain neutrality and to avoid original research. - Chardish (talk) 14:54, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Merge - We desperately need to create a "Universe of the Mario Brothers series" article to put this and Mushroom Kingdom into. Judgesurreal777 16:46, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was Nomination withdrawn, non-admin closure. Ten Pound Hammer(Broken clamshellsOtter chirps) 18:06, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    A.O. Smith[edit]

    A.O. Smith (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Claims 130+ years of history and 10 million+ water heaters sold... so there might be some notability here. This was a speedy deletion candidate but I am bringing it to AFD for discussion. It feels like a copyvio but I can't tell of what. Needs some sources, otherwise delete W.marsh 17:32, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was delete. Pigman 01:38, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Idiots of ants[edit]

    Idiots of ants (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Delete NN comedy group Mayalld (talk) 17:29, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


    Dear Sir/Madam,

    I wrote this page after finding Pappy's fun Club ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pappy%27s_Fun_Club ) ,another UK sketch group at a similiar level, but not finding an Idiots of Ants page. Both are up and coming acts so it seems strange that Pappy's Fun Club would be OK and Idiots of Ants not. I am a fan so was extra careful not to publicise them in any way. But if I did I will remove it.

    Kind Regards,

    Cody

    I would argue that both these groups are ‘notably’ if not yet famous. At the Edinburgh Festival they were both big news selling out there venues every night. This means over 5000 people saw them. Add to that the gigs they have done in London and around the UK it must be over 10,000. Certainly not ‘Monty Python’ but a great start none the less.

    On top of this both groups have been reviewed and written about in the national press (only yesterday did I see Idiots of Ants the Metro Newspaper) and have both been and national Television and radio.

    They both have big internet followings (me amongst them) and think they would be a popular addition to Wikipedia

    ~~Cody~~

    Cody —Preceding unsigned comment added by Codspy (talkcontribs) 17:59, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


    Thanks again,

    Codspy (talk) 18:24, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    I entered Idiots of Ants into wikipedia having booked tickets to see them at their Pleasance gig in London at Christmas after having lapped them up at Edinburgh. We bought the tickets the day after seeing them on BBC2's Culture Show. Yet I find that they are nominated for deletion on here?! I cannot understand that. Who decides whether something has a right to be deleted? There are countless examples on Wikipedia of far less notable/successful/famous people/groups/events than the Idiots. Surely that is not the purpose of the volunteer editors on the site? To be arbiters of what is well-known or not? I consider myself cultured and well-read, but I wouldn't dream of stating what was worthy of public consumption on wikipedia on the basis of whether it had entered my sphere of experience or where it rated on my perceived 'fame-o-meter'.

    They are a comedy group in the public eye that are known by and have entertained as many people as many of the books, for example, that appear on this site. Those books claim their space, I assume, on the grounds that you could go into any bookstore and pick them up IF YOU WERE LOOKING FOR THEM. The same argument exists to defend the Idiots of Ants. If you were looking to see them, you could find them, and the first place you should be able to look is here.

    The nomination for deletion is extraordinary and should be removed.

    Jessica McIntyne.


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    The result was Keep. Davewild 21:00, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    LG CU500[edit]

    LG CU500 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Wikipedia is not a Lucky Goldstar catalog. This product is not notable; too few substantial references other than reviews are available to support writing a sustainable encyclopedia article. Mikeblas (talk) 17:26, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:32, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    War of the First Council[edit]

    War of the First Council (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article asserts no notability through reliable sources, and as such is just an in-universe repetition of plot elements from the Elder Scrolls games. As Wikipedia is not a gameguide, and this is all duplicative, this can be safely deleted. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 17:25, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:31, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Revelation vii[edit]

    Revelation vii (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Appears to be a non-notable website for an equally non-notable fringe group. I opted to bring it to AFD rather than speedy due to the references, but even despite the two interview clips I can't see how the website is notable; a Google search turned up many irrelevant hits (mainly relating to the Bible or small bands), and there are no relevant Google News hits, either. Coredesat 17:19, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Keep. Davewild (talk) 21:41, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Eternal Sacred Order of Cherubim and Seraphim[edit]

    Eternal Sacred Order of Cherubim and Seraphim (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Delete Article quotes no reliable sources to establish notability Mayalld (talk) 17:17, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    • Question - Is this the same as the "Cherubim and Seraphim Society" mentioned in the Aladura page? - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 05:18, 28 November 2007 (UTC) Answer - It seems to be; the founder is mentioned on that page. Will add a link. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 05:21, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    to make it clear that this is a mainstream Christian denomination in West Africa, and a bit more Googling shows that it has enough standing to have hosted a number of major African synods and also has well-established branches in the UK and US. The questions of tone and points of English usage can be dealt with by sensible editing. This article should not have been nominated here so soon. HeartofaDog (talk) 00:26, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    and WP:BITE is always worth re-reading.HeartofaDog (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 00:42, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment. Just about to cite WP:BITE myself. Anyway, in a moment I'll be adding a list of respectable secondary references to the article in question, should anybody feel the call to tidy the article up. They establish notability, if nothing else comes of them. Paularblaster (talk) 01:07, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment - It seems that the great bulk of the text was directly copied from the church's own website. I've removed it for now, bearing in mind the possibility that the creator may have, or be able to obtain, permission to use it. What's left, with Paularblaster's addl refs, should in any case be enough for an OK small article, which I'll do myself in a few hours if no-one else wants to.HeartofaDog (talk) 01:35, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was Merge and redirect to Deadeye Dick (band). Waggers (talk) 14:29, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Caleb Guillotte[edit]

    Caleb Guillotte (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Delete as NN autobiography Mayalld (talk) 16:59, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Over 500 Ghits [19], with an IMdB entry, charity work, etc. Bearian (talk) 18:27, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Added sources. Is that enough? Bearian (talk) 22:59, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    You've done well to verify the information in the article, but these are all pretty trivial mentions. I still don't see a compelling argument for a separate article, and a merge seems like a better editorial decision. I did, however, strike my comment saying there were no sources :).--Kubigula (talk) 01:23, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was keep - notability does not expire, and some sources have evidently been found. —Random832 21:26, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Bubble Up[edit]

    Bubble Up (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Apparently non-notable product. - Jehochman Talk 16:59, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    "The Bubble-Up brand has been around since 1917, when Sweet Valley Products Co. of Sandusky, Ohio, started bottling a "non-alcoholic, non-cereal, maltless beverage" under that name. The familiar citrus Bubble-Up - "Kiss of Lemon-Kiss of Lime" - was popular by the 1930s, the golden age of soda pops. The brand had a brief moment of glory in the 1950s when it came out in a 16-ounce bottle, beating both Coke and Pepsi, who were battling it out in 12-ounce bottles.
    But the brand lost its fizz and all but vanished during the 1960s, according to soda pop guru Hamilton Rousseau, who owns Ifs Ands & Butts."

    I'll add the source(s) to the article. Also, fer cryin' out loud, it was just created today; give it a chance. -- phoebe/(talk) 19:58, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:30, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    A Brief History of the Empire[edit]

    A Brief History of the Empire (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article asserts no notability through reliable sources, and as such is just an in-universe repetition of plot elements from the Elder Scrolls games. As Wikipedia is not a gameguide, and this is all duplicative, this can be safely deleted. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 16:20, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 13:03, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Ordinators[edit]

    Ordinators (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article asserts no notability through reliable sources, and as such is just an in-universe repetition of plot elements from the Elder Scrolls games. As Wikipedia is not a gameguide, and this is all duplicative, this can be safely deleted. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 16:19, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Delete; no consensus about where to merge. If anyone wants to merge it later, request a copy from me :) --Haemo (talk) 02:55, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Dark Brotherhood[edit]

    Dark Brotherhood (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article asserts no notability through reliable sources, and as such is just an in-universe repetition of plot elements from the Elder Scrolls games. As Wikipedia is not a gameguide, and this is all duplicative, this can be safely deleted. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 16:10, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Besides, this article was previously deleted and is no more notable now than it was then. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 16:11, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    While your at it, please look for references and development material, such as where did the developers of the game come up with these things? That is crucial to the articles long term survival. Judgesurreal777 16:38, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    But why would we keep this article because its less terrible than other articles? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 01:07, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    No, I'm saying this isn't near bottom barrel(worthy of deletion) in terms of articles. It basically has one massive flaw, no references, which I admit is a problem, even though this information is on the level. This article shouldn't be deleted, it should be fixed, we shouldn't just quit on it. TostitosAreGross (talk) 01:14, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Unless it has references somewhere, I'm afriad it is a fatal flaw. The contention is that it doesn't have references now, it is that there aren't any references in existence, at least not in the form needed. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 03:27, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Actually that was what I was getting at. Imperial-library.com is an excellent source of information, as in everything in the article could be sourced. Anybody with the time and skill could throw in a couple sources, the lazy choice would be to delete this article, the wise choice would be to add sources, and maybe make the article less in-universe.TostitosAreGross (talk) 20:55, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Please read WP:FICTION, because those references you mention are not the ones needed to establish notability. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:09, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was speedy delete. Spellcast (talk) 16:14, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    D'Gallia[edit]

    AfDs for this article:
    D'Gallia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    nn (~750 ghits), written by someone affiliated with it:

    Today, the Culinary Institute with the Peruvian youths' of highest acceptance, to collaborate with the diffusion of our kitchen and to continue contributing to the development of successful professionals that you highlight in the gastronomic business and they are developed in a successful way in any part of the world.Thank you for your kind preference.

    (emphasis mine)

    nn, or, coi/npov. OSbornarfcontributionatoration 16:06, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was No Consensus to delete. Davewild (talk) 21:55, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Bruenor Battlehammer[edit]

    Bruenor Battlehammer (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Non-notable fictional character. Insufficient third-party references exist to write a substantial, verifiable, and maintainable WikiPedia article. ((prod)) removed without comment, so listing at AfD.Mikeblas (talk) 15:49, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Comment Still fails WP:FICT though, unless you care to add the appropriate sources that show otherwise. RMHED (talk) 21:41, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Aye, I'd be happy to change my !vote to keep if you can provide a secondary reliable sources demonstrating extensive coverage in non-"in-universe" contexts. Pete.Hurd (talk) 21:51, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I have added several independent sources. The remainder, I think, should be referenced directly out of the novels. — RJH (talk) 16:30, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Reply - I understand you believe that, and this has been the fuel for this run of AfDs. I think it's a mostly valid viewoint, but at its heart it's incorrect, and this is why we disagree so often in these discussions. The statement that "Only reliable secondary sources can establish notability under WP Guidelines" is not only untrue, but insufficient in this (and almost every other) case of the discussions we've been involved with so far. In the first place, it is untrue because the guideline (WP:N for our purposes) uses independent, third-party sources as one means by which to presume notability. The claim is often made that the works in which these characters appear are insufficient because they are not "independent;" I don't buy that, because we find multiple authors contributing to a number of resources with no particular interest in furthering the salability of the specific objects/characters in question. We aren't talking about a product or a website, and at best the "independent" argument is a gray area. Further still, I consider it a rather silly argument in the case of WP:FICT, because fact-checking (the impetus behind the need for independence of source) is hardly an issue as the characters are defined within that written work itself. The more likely the claims are to be controversial, the more strictly the independent, third-party guideline needs to be applied (note the "occasional exception" and "common sense" clauses; it indicates that there are times when it need not be so rigidly applied as you're insisting - and the very articles for which you tend to recommend deletion are the ones for which these clauses were included). Making blanket statements about fictional characters is recognized in Wikipedia as being insufficient to delete (or even, often, merge) articles by more than the mere denizens of fandom, myself included.
    Secondly, it is insufficient not only historically (the low success rate of these AfDs that I've alluded to before) but policy-wise. I respect the guidelines as much as any other editor, but I realize that the reason these are not policies is because they are insufficient on their own to guide the criteria for deletion and inclusion. What we have here is your belief that this information is "marginal," and because it's not important to you, guidelines should be applied as policies, and policies (if they did exist, which they don't) should be used as a club to beat Wikipedia into the shape you believe it should take. That's basically WP:IDONTLIKEIT, as I've said before. It looks like it conforms to the policies and guidelines, but that's more by coincidence than by design. Probably, some of these AfDs put up are going to succeed, but that seems at this point like it will be a luck of the draw based upon others who share your views, rather than the mounting consensus (a policy) that strengthens with every article of this type that is kept. As I said in more than one previous AfD, there comes a point when Notability may be safely presumed (without "harm" to Wikipedia) by common sense based upon widespread reader base, and various other elements that exist here. As far as the deletion nominations, we can keep doing this as long as you like, I suppose... but it is getting a little old. Zahakiel 16:44, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Delete - Has not established notability, which it must to be kept. Judgesurreal777 18:47, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:30, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Infantry Lua[edit]

    Infantry Lua (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This seems to be about scripting some sort of game, but it's far more of a reference manual then an actual article. Wikipedia is not a game guide, and that includes a guide to scripting the game. — PyTom (talk) 19:36, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    • Weird. I tried using TW to list this, a long time ago. — PyTom (talk) 19:45, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:29, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Reverbose Records[edit]

    Reverbose Records (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Non-notable record label. No assertion that any of its artists are notable. I don't see anything here that meets WP:MUSIC. Most if not all Google hits seem to be self-generated advertisement. -- Dougie WII (talk) 04:56, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    I am also nominating the following related pages because they are related articles:

    Stepford Five (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
    A New Design for Living (album) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
    MESH (album) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
    The Art of Self-Defense (album) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

    Dougie WII (talk) 05:04, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


    Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
    Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, W.marsh 15:34, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was keep. Comment: Despite quite a lot of back and forth and shifting consensus, comparison of the article from when it first came to this AfD and now [22] clearly shows a massively improved article. Pigman 02:22, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Jayne Mansfield in popular culture[edit]

    Jayne Mansfield in popular culture (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Delete - previous AFD closed no consensus and in the intervening months there has been no attempt whatsoever to address the problems. The article remains an indiscriminate collection of unrelated items which have no commonality beyond happening to include the words "Jayne Mansfield" in some capacity. There is no denying that Jayne Mansfield was a pop culture presence. This does not mean that a list of every time someone says "Jayne Mansfield" on TV or in a book is encyclopedic. "Someone said 'Jayne Mansfield'" is not a theme. "Someone said 'Jayne Mansfield'" is not a unifying element. Otto4711 (talk) 14:32, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    • Is anyone suggesting that all stub or start class articles be deleted? No? Then why bring that up when it has no relevance? As for a comparison to the absinthe article, the existence of that or any other article does not justify the existence of this article. Nor does the number of times any other person is referred to in popular culture. Untold numbers of Lists of songs about... have been deleted so that portion of the list is even more suspect. The point still stands that if the only thing that these things have in common is mentioning Jayne Mansfield's name then they bear absolutely no encyclopedic relationship to each other. Otto4711 (talk) 17:02, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • It is a fallacy to suggest that we should keep this article because Jayne Mansfield is mentioned more often in popular culture than two Wikipedia editors. Whether or not all the bulleted items in this article relate to a single object (JM, in this example) is irrelevant because, at the end of the day, they are still an unconnected list of random facts which meet the definition of WP:TRIVIA. Cumulus Clouds (talk) 06:42, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    GRC, as that closed no consensus, some people still ned convincing, so so some further argument would be helpful. DGG (talk) 05:22, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Her notability justifies an article about her. It does not justify a list of every time her name is mentioned in any medium. Otto4711 (talk) 13:32, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment. Indiscriminate collection of unrelated facts? Indeed. Most, if not all, "In popular culture..." articles would be that, by the standard of the nomination here. The Absynthe article was just an example, if you want more you are obviously welcome to the category page. A category of articles may have one set of standards (if it doesn't disagree with core standards) which may not be measured by another categories standards. Will someone then try questioning the entire category instead of hitting on one particular article? The argument of deleting stub and start class articles came to question the reasoning that the article have not developed since the last nomination.
    "This article haven't developed fast enough" can't be a reason for deletion. If "there is no denying that Jayne Mansfield was a pop culture presence", then the article needs to be developed, not deleted. It is a fallacy to start deleting articles on copywriting quality or format (list or prose). It also shows a not-good intention to find out a weak spot in another person's argument and using it to render that person's entire argument invalid. Though it is more preferable to have prose over lists, I really don't see how this list is of unconnected facts. Since this doesn't fail notability, or neutrality, and has the scope for appropriate verification. Please, read WP:NOT#INFO beyond the header, and find out that it holds nothing against this articles. Aditya(talkcontribs) 10:13, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • I've read WP:NOT#IINFO from the start all the way through to the end, so no need for your condescension, thanks. It is a list of unconnected facts because the mention of the two words "Jayne Mansfield" do not create an encyclopedic relationship between every two items in which the two words appear. Not really all that complicated of a concept, really. And you continue, speaking of reading comprehension, to respond as if the reason this article is up for deletion is because it hasn't "developed fast enough" when nothing like that has been said. Otto4711 (talk) 13:29, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Are suggesting that it should not contain stuff that quotes "Jayne" and "Mansfield" in succession? Songs and movies and books that explicitly makes reference to JM are random facts, and does not make for material enough to make an article? [[WP:NOT#IINFO explicitly explains what it means by "random information":
    1. Lists of Frequently Asked Questions
    2. Descriptions of fictional works (not when they are the sole content of an article)
    3. Lyrics databases (the article may not consist solely of the lyrics)
    4. Statistics
    5. News reports (Routine news coverage... not sufficient basis for an article)
    Since, you have quoted the policy in your nomination, would you explain, please, which part the article fails? You have agreed yourself that "there is no denying that Jayne Mansfield was a pop culture presence", then what makes it unworthy? Poor quality of the article? What? By the way, I have never said or implied "reading comprehension". I was just trying to find out what led you to a sesond nomination. May be it's not - "It haven't developed fast". But, it can't be "random facts" either. JM isn't random, her impact and memorability isn't random, making references to her isn't random, and acknowledging those references isn't random. What is? Aditya(talkcontribs) 14:13, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • I think you're selectivity reading that policy and citing only the parts which you think support your argument. There has already been extensive discussion on what to do with "...in popular culture" articles and this one falls within the cycle mentioned in that essay. This material should never have been forked from Jayne Mansfield in the first place and certainly should never have been placed in a bulleted list and then abandoned by its creators.
    I think if you actually read the policies that have been cited in this nomination you will agree that this one fails all of them. Instead of continuing to debate whether or not this is true (and thereby prolonging this already lengthy and litiguous discussion) you can consent to have the article merged, retain the material and work on integrating it into Jayne Mansfield with proper citations. This would not only benefit the people in this discussion, but also the community at large and the readers of this encyclopedia. Thank you. Cumulus Clouds (talk) 14:28, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Since, I presume, you have actually read the policy to arrive at the decision, as opposed to "selectively reading and citing", that "this one fails all of them", I hope you will be willing to forward some of the points that fail it. And, I am sure you have read through the link you've provided to describe my behavior is about the principle of policies. I hope you can tell me how agreeing to the fact that JM has enormous pop culture impact, and then quoting the same policy twice in the same sentence without making the point explicit keeps the principle high. The forking was done to keep the article size (already needing a bit of pruning) under control, which is the first suggestion of the other essay you quote.
    And, I really must draw your attention to a simple fact - this is not a merging discussion, it is a deletion discussion. Therefore, all my arguments are against deletion, not remotely against merging. Apart from driving up the article size, I have nothing against a merge, not even a selective merge. Finally, as this debate is really going against civility (I am already facing charges of prolonging the debate, being litigious and working against the benefit of the project and the community, to quote a few legal terms used here), I guess this is going to be my last post on this page. Go ahead, and have it your way. Cheers. Aditya(talkcontribs) 15:05, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Comment (I was asked to come here, so I think voting would be inappropriate) I've witnessed a few "in popular culture" AfD's and normally the ones which get deleted are the lists - the survivors (e.g. this one) are usually rewritten as prose. If you really want this to stay, it'll have to be converted to prose form to boost its chances. Totnesmartin (talk) 16:12, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    • The problem with this article (and all others like it) is that the material doesn't need to be forked. If it's notable enough already, it should be incorporated into the main body of the article it was originally derived from. By definition, crap that accumulates in trivia and "...in popular culture" sections isn't notable enough for the article itself. It's like adding a gigantic PS to the article with all of the useless minutae that didn't make the cut for the original article. I believe this is almost universally true for all pop culture articles and sections.
    Further, if we begin to accomodate such lists, they will attract more and more trivial items until we have to fork popular culture articles into "Jayne Mansfield in popular culture (TV)" and so on. This is an encyclopedia, it is not a storybook or an almanac of everything to ever happen in the history of mankind. We should strive to remove unencyclopedic content and improve what isn't so that Wikipedia can continue to maintain its accessibility and readibility well into the future. Cumulus Clouds (talk) 01:03, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • that it might get worse is not reason for deleting it. Any WP article could. Many of them do. They all need watching. DGG (talk) 05:14, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Nobody is making that claim. This article needs to be deleted so that the material can be reincorporated into Jayne Mansfield. Your edits have made it easier by converting the lists to prose so that any editor may copy and paste the most important sections of this article into that one and delete the rest. Cumulus Clouds 19:48, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • For instance, I have moved a portion of this article into the relevant section of the main article. With community consent, I will do this to the rest of the remaining sections and leave the rest for deletion. Cumulus Clouds 19:55, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    1. Actually this IPC article was split out of the main article because of space considerations there, as a result of a discussion. So, no, it is not a collection of trivia that is not notable enough to be in the main article. And the idea that it could be a trivia magnet is not a reason to delete.
    2. From what I see, the deleters don't seem to be responding to the main thrust of the keep arguments here and in the previous AfD, and also now in the article (all incorporated here by reference): This is not trivia. It's extremely well cited cultural references that support the central assertion of her phenomenal impact on pop culture. An impact so great that it transcends generations. Aditya, DGG, Tvoz, myself, and others have offered sound and valid arguments, and even unimpeachable academic sources, that attest to that fact. Yet the main deletion argument appears to only refer to the lack of a unifying element, and claim that these are unrelated items only connected by the mention of her name. And also mostly ignoring the undeniable evidence of her phenomenal impact on pop culture today. That is the unifying element, not that her name happened to be mentioned in each instance. In other words, it's backwards, as it's not trivia riding on her coattails (or inheriting her notability), rather these notable and sourced references support her notability and social impact on pop culture.
    3. Even the nominator, in his nomination statement referred to her "...pop culture presence". DGG said in the first AfD: " Most of the individual items mentioned are highly significant works by notable artists, and their use of this particular symbol is because it is generally culturally recognized as important." The article has 57 citations at this point, including several academic ones.
    4. If this article was about some essentially unknown actress and listed every thing she ever appeared in or was mentioned in, I would agree to delete (and I have done so in other AfDs). I even completely agree with the removal of this reference to Hatta Mari diff by Cumulus Clouds, as it's wasn't notable enough.
    5. This second AfD is destructive to Wikipedia in that it wastes all our time and energy that we all could have spent improving the article (or other articles), as described in WP:IPC. And the first AfD came out only two days after this article was forked. Aditya actually did the most sensible thing here by spending all that energy and time rewriting and sourcing the article with phenomenal success. Something we all could learn from.
    6. I have no problem if the content is merged, but only if that merge includes all the content. Any further discussions about merging, integrating or rewriting the content should then take place on the talk page as part of the normal reflective editorial consensus process, rather than here in an highly pressured AfD deadline driven environment that affect all the editors involved in this debate. Otherwise, Keep.
    Thank you. — Becksguy 22:41, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Because the revisions that Aditya has made to this article make much of that information more valuable than it had been in bulleted form, I propose that we begin to merge, with the consent of all concerned parties, that information back into Jayne Mansfield. This will make the original article longer, but I feel that the material will enhance the value of that article enough to override any concerns about length. Material that is disputed as irrelevant or unneeded will be discussed at Talk:Jayne_Mansfield_in_popular_culture and upon reaching consensus, will either be moved or retained in the popular culture article. All the remaining content will then be placed up for deletion at an AfD and editors can voice their concerns about retaining the leftover material there. I volunteer to work with Aditya in executing this merge. Cumulus Clouds 23:54, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Amen to that. But, I'd still like to have the biography article (Jayne Mansfield) and the cultural impact article (Jayne Mansfield in popular culture) separate, and develop both articles. One article may not have space enough for the cultural phenomenon that we know as JM. Aditya(talkcontribs) 07:00, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    one way or the other, it's an editing question (as is the use of list vs. paragraph format). This should never have come here at all, and what is necessary to do is to simply keep it, and let those interested in the subject work on it. DGG (talk) 04:59, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Exactly, DGG. — Becksguy 09:25, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Absolutely right, Peterkingiron.--NAHID 09:58, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    This is why we have WP:SIZE. Merge and split debates should be about individual merits. There is a general trend against "in popular culture" articles, (more of a deletionist movement than a mergist one). I don't like it isn't sufficient grounds for deletion (if it was there'd be no articles on politics or religion by the end of the week), but it does crop up unsurprisingly often in AfD debates. Totnesmartin (talk) 16:03, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was keep. Carioca 00:31, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Queenstown Rovers[edit]

    Queenstown Rovers (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Nothing more than a single sentence definition and an external link. Rtphokie (talk) 14:14, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Redirects are cheap, be bold and try one yourself. Non-admin closure. Ten Pound Hammer(Broken clamshellsOtter chirps) 16:23, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Couples for Christ Foundation for Family and Life[edit]

    Couples for Christ Foundation for Family and Life (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article is a copy of the article Foundation for Family and Life, created by Verymuch2000 to create a distinction with the mainstream organization Couples for Christ. Click here and here to understand why Couples for Christ Foundation for Family and Life should only be referred to as Foundation for Family and Life. Jedjuntereal (talk) 14:00, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was Keep. Davewild (talk) 22:02, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Maleflixxx Television[edit]

    Maleflixxx Television (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article was originally deleted as part of a group AfD, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Channel Zero Inc.. DRV determined that the group listing was improper; therefore, this article is relisted individually. weak delete, given notability concerns, pending other opinions. Xoloz (talk) 13:59, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Here are a couple more sources: Viacom going up against them: [23] and AVN calling them as a leader in the gay VOD market with international reach [24]. • Gene93k (talk) 12:01, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    The variety.com article does mention it, and AVN has an article about it - which does weaken my concerns - changed vote above accordingly. Still a delete for now, as I'm not sure how much an article on AVN proves. --Minimaki 14:20, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    None of those are press releases, all of them are independent reliable sources. If you think those are press releases then you obviously don't understand the difference between the two. And if that is the bases of your argument, then your argument should be rendered void. MusiMax (talk) 15:01, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I guess I was a bit unclear, and you overlooked the word like when I said like press releases. In any case, to clarify, no, I did not think they are press releases - just that they read similar. From what I remember they all were from a day after the launch and did not contain anything besides information taken from the press release, which is not surprising as there was of course not much more info available yet. And very likely, those sites report the launch of all those channels, so it didn't convince me as being notable. --Minimaki 14:20, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    But they don't even read like a press release either, yes they may take their info from a press release and then create a news article from that, but that's just how it works, everyone does it, they have to get their facts and info from somewhere and then create a news article using that info. And they also don't create an article on every channel either, they pick and choose what they think is important and what their readers would like to know about. MusiMax 17:28, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was keep. While the consensus here appears to be to keep the article, the keep rationale isn't very strong. I suspect we will wind up back here again if some reliable sources aren't added soon.--Kubigula (talk) 05:17, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    AOV Adult Movie Channel[edit]

    AOV Adult Movie Channel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article was originally deleted as part of a group AfD, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Channel Zero Inc.. DRV determined that the group listing was improper; therefore, this article is relisted individually. Delete, given lack of reliable sources and notability concerns, pending other opinions. Xoloz (talk) 13:56, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    I still think the article is fine enough to stay. There are thousands of article out there that doesn't have references and they stay. The article will improve with time. This is a nationwide television channel that has been around for a few years and is growing; I just don't think there it needs to be deleted. It's fine the way it is. MusiMax 17:36, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    The availability of a cable channel and a website is not analogous. All websites by default are worldwide; it takes a conscious effort to make them not worldwide. Notability is proven by the fact this channel is available nationwide. The fact that media outlets include the channel's line-up in their TV listings is sufficient independent confirmation of notability.Torc2 00:03, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Keep. Davewild (talk) 22:06, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Movieola[edit]

    Movieola (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article was originally deleted as part of a group AfD, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Channel Zero Inc.. DRV determined that the group listing was improper; therefore, this article is relisted individually. Delete, given lack of reliable sources and notability concerns, pending other opinions. Xoloz (talk) 13:53, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    BTW... how can you say "given lack of reliable sources", it has references from Playback Magazine and The Globe and Mail. I also just added a reference from Variety. These are very reliable and independent sources. MusiMax (talk) 15:01, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    They are reliable sources, they talk about it's launch, they made a major deal to be distributed via Joost and they also talk about other dealings with the channel including ownership. They are reliable sources, all of which are independent, and there are many other sources on the net as well, these are only a select few. They article is fine the way it is, but it can also improve with time. MusiMax (talk) 15:43, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was Redirect to Couples for Christ, (closed by non-admin). RMHED (talk) 21:37, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Couples for Christ Global Mission Foundation[edit]

    Couples for Christ Global Mission Foundation (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article is a copy of the article Couples for Christ, created by Verymuch2000 to create a distinction with the dissident group Foundation for Family and Life (see Couples for Christ Foundation for Family and Life.) Click here and here to understand why Couples for Christ Foundation for Family and Life should only be referred to as Foundation for Family and Life. Jedjuntereal (talk) 13:52, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result wasDelete. The delete comments are based fully upon policy and guideline. The article remains unsourced, thus unverified, despite being almost two years old. -JodyB talk 22:42, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    XXX Action Clips Channel[edit]

    XXX Action Clips Channel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article was originally deleted as part of a group AfD, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Channel Zero Inc.. DRV determined that the group listing was improper; therefore, this article is relisted individually. Delete, given lack of reliable sources and notability concerns, pending other opinions. Xoloz (talk) 13:49, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    I still think the article is fine enough to stay. There are thousands of article out there that doesn't have references and they stay. The article will improve with time. This is a nationwide television channel that has been around for a few years and is growing, theres no other television channel like this in the rest of Canada (entire channel centred around only showing clips from films); I just don't think there it needs to be deleted. It's fine the way it is. MusiMax 17:36, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    It's a national cable channel, how is that not notable? The article has enough information included that it should stay, I don't think that references from the web is the be all and end all as it relates to notability. Given the subject of the article itself is enough to satisfy the notability concerns, which with it being a national cable channel is enough for it to be notable. MusiMax (talk) 16:42, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was REDIRECT to The Perry Bible Fellowship. James086Talk | Email 09:06, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Skub[edit]

    Skub (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    PROD removed. Vague and weak assertion of notability, seemingly the only reason it wouldn't qualify for DB-WEB. Only sources are the webcomic/author's site and YTMND (the latter just the site itself, not any specific page). There are also links to some random Internet groups.Drat (Talk) 12:06, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:27, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Contino Speed System[edit]

    Contino Speed System (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Non-notable "scale" invented by a school cross-country team. Stephenb (Talk) 12:02, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Nomination withdrawn / keep. Waggers (talk) 14:36, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Cold War Crisis[edit]

    Cold War Crisis (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    What makes this mod more notable than others? What makes mods notable to begin with? AKFrost (talk) 10:33, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    For those who have objections, I first suggest you look at WP:NOT#PLOT,WP:NOT#GUIDE. Without the game plot and the game mechanics, these mods have little writable information and really can't go any further.AKFrost 04:53, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Nominator's suggestion: Delete or Merge into one list AKFrost (talk) 04:50, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Also, it might be a good idea to move these pages to Game info wikia and/or StrategyWiki. AKFrost 18:00, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    As of time of writing, I will no longer reply to any comments that says "There is an article that's worse/less notable/less suitable." As Oni Ookami Alfador have kindly pointed out, I've repeated it enough times. Please discuss the merits of the pages only. AKFrost 04:53, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Retraction Retracting deletion request for Cold War Crisis and ShockWave (video game). However, these articles should still be merged in one list seeing that they don't have enough information (and AFAIK, no more since they aren't stubs) to warrant a full article. AKFrost (talk) 07:25, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    I am also adding:

    *ShockWave (video game) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) For the same reasons. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AKFrost (talkcontribs) 10:38, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    The above is me, forgot to log in.AKFrost (talk) 01:54, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment I don't know where your "multiple deletions = bad idea" is coming from, seeing that Wiki AFD guidlines have a section just for that. You're clearly alone here in that opinion. Also, Once you remove the plot material and any game-specific stuff as required for games (Wiki is not a game manual). You're left with about three paragraphs(One intro, One description, One list of awards and other material that makes it notable.) or less. That's hardly material on an article that can't be expanded any more. (Again, Plot is nothing more than fanfiction here, and I don't see any material on fanfiction on wiki because they're legally questionable to begin with.) Plus, on top of that, Shockwave is still in its beta stages. When did we ever have a page on a beta that's not a sequel to something? This is, of course, barring the questionable legality of mods to begin with, especially unlicensed mods like this. AKFrost (talk) 08:48, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Are you just going to repeat the same nonsense each time someone posts a reason for keep here? We can read thank you very much, we don't need you to repeat everything back. I never said I wasn't alone in the opinon on the multiple AFD thing and quite frankly (this is a good one here) I don't care! If I needed my opinions validated by some group of people have them count, I wouldn't be wasting my time on the wiki to begin with. FYI: A manual is not a plot synopsis. A manual contains instructional value. In fact, the core EVERY well written article on ANY sort of fiction on wikipedia, be it movie, comic, game, literature, epic, etc. provides some form of plot synopsis. Otherwise you get "<Article Title> is a videogame/movie/TV show/book. It came out on <date here>." and apparently that's it since no one is allowed to know what its about. Perhaps you should have your terminology all straightened out before you start throwing it around. --Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 08:03, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • You obviously didn't read enough. The plot of these mods are fanfiction, especially Mental Omega which they claim is an "unofficial continuation to Yuri's Revenge." Search wikipedia, and tell me if you can find a single page on unendorsed, non-commercial fanfiction. Such fanfiction, their questionable legality aside, cannot be justified as notable. Without the plot, there is no page. Also, you seem to have a penchant of going off topic. Can you please focus on the merits of these articles? If you're just gonna play policy, I suggest you check WP:WL and WP:POINT. AKFrost 17:45, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment I didn't list the Quake Mods because I don't play Quake, and, quite frankly, cares little for Quake. Using Quake as a example is irrelevant. If you think Action Quake 2 should be nominated for AfD, I suggest you do so. Just because that is even more poorly written doesn't mean every article better written doesn't deserve to be deleted. Finally, you'll note that the sources on CWC is all from their own website. Since when was that a criteria for notability? What, can I just go off and make a website for my mod and it'll be notable? Add a few more reviews from my friends, and it'll be notable? Again, I reiterate my thoughts. It's only notable if either the company endorses it, or it becomes a commercial product. None of which these four have been shown to match.AKFrost (talk) 08:48, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I read the wrong section, but nevertheless, my original point stands. They could have easily just bribed one of the columnists at those sites to write reviews. As for the award, it only proves that it's one of the better mods, which still doesn't answer the question: how are mods notable? Webcomics are original content created by their authors. Mods are not. Mods are more comparable to fanfictions. And so far, even after combing wikipedia, I have yet to find any non-commercial fanfiction having articles on Wiki, and mods are of a similar nature. Mods are content created based, more or less, on content written by another party. See the difference? The final point is. What makes those sources a legitimate gauge of notability? If I take a mod given an award by a chinese/japanese/russian/british/you name it magazine. Would wiki accept it as a notable mod? I can certainly think of a mod that's practically played by everyone in China (because, strangely, it's bundled with 95% of the copies of Yuri's Revenge, authentic or pirated, that are in China.) Would that be a notable mod, even though practically nobody here in the States have ever heard of it? Again, a reasonable compromise is putting them under a list in one article, but having individual articles for these mods are giving them more attention than needed.AKFrost (talk) 09:00, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment Excuse me? Bribe columnists? What the hell? Also, yes, ShockWave's "only" in its beta stages, but it's already several years old, has a good following (for a mod) and in the time it's spent on ModDB has been nominated for "Mod of the Year" and reached a 10/10 rating. It's definitely one of the more notable C&C Generals mods. Same goes for CWC and Mental Omega. Yes, re-writing needs to be done but deleting it is going a little too far. As far as notability goes; do we really need articles on individual ships of the United States Navy? How do you define it in the first place? And how are mods NOT original content? Yes, they build forth on a basis provided by a company, but they create their own content within that context. Show me where it says the Lockdown MRLS, Tiger gunship or King Toxin Tractor (to use ShockWave as an example) were created by anyone else but the ShockWave team. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Strategia (talkcontribs) 11:22, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • It's a suggestion, I'm just going on with the possibilities to illustrate that those columns' questionable reliability. How do we know the columnist didn't work on the mod in question, or is friends with someone who worked on the mod? As for the Navy Ships, I remind you of Wikipedia:Arguments_to_avoid_in_deletion_discussions#What_about_article_x.3F. Again, it's not my problem because I don't care about Navy Ships. I care about C&C. If you think they're not notable, go ahead and put them up for deletion. I don't know what's up with those "Article X exists, it's worse, so this should stay" arguments, but I suggest you stop using it. I'm tired of repeating myself over and over again. If it's not about C&C material, why does it have relevance? In fact, even though it is bad practice, I will counter with "Why the Tacitus, a central plot device to the C&C universe, doesn't have an article?" Are you going to ask me to write it? If so, I'll ask you to nominate whatever you think is less notable to be nominated for AfD. Quid pro quo, and stop using it as an argument for keeping these articles. AKFrost (talk) 02:36, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Need I remind you... WP:ATA is an ESSAY, not a guideline or policy. It is a tool to help users craft effective arguements, a a list of rules for how you're allowed to state your case. Honestly they need to make that essay template bigger... I'm getting tired of explaining this to people.--Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 08:08, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • I understand perfectly, thank you. It's presumptuous for you to assume I didn't know it was an essay. However, like you pointed out yourself, the point of that essay is to guide you on crafting effective arguments. Even if it is in essay form, the main idea of the passage I pointed out, that "What about article X" is not an effective argument, still stands regardless of what form it was written in. I don't particularly care for any other pages that may or may not need deletion. I saw these four, and I will judge them on their merit only. Other articles have no meaning. If you really want a comparison, compare that to the Tacitus. It was redirected some time ago so I didn't comb AfD for the page. However, the argument stands, if this canonically important piece doesn't get its article, how is stuff that's not canon notable, especially under the Command and Conquer group? If we're really trying to document information about Command and Conquer, wouldn't it be logical to go for the canon first? As stated before, these mods are not mainstream games. They might have a dedicated fanbase, but I can't imagine it being large enough to merit more notability than an object which is central to the plot of a game that not only the modders played and worked on, but also played and enjoyed by non-modders. 76.102.199.11 23:49, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • And on top of that, I'm really sick and tired of having to explain this: If you find a worse article, good for you, nominate it for deletion. It has no bearings on this case. Rather than using a logical fallacy "If y is less than 100, and x is greater than y, then y must be greater than 100," why don't you just nominate the dang article for AfD and have done with it. Just because you found a junk article, doesn't mean it should be there. Limit your discussion to these articles, please. 76.102.199.11 23:58, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Obviously you don't. You're still repeating the same stuff that everyone here has already heard 6 times. Please keep in mind, an AFD has to reflect some form of consensus in order to come to a deletion, yet you seem as quick as possible to alienate everyone who posts their thoughts here. Perhaps my error was assuming that you mistook it for a guideline. I suppose the truth here is you need an explanation of what an essay is. An essay on wikipedia holds ZERO official endorsement or merit. It takes but a single person to write an essay, and just because an essay exists does not mean it is of any quality, that its recommendations should or should not be followed, et cetera. You seem to think that just because this essay exists that everyone's argument has to be crafted in its image. Also, lets drop the news column conspiracy theories please. Wikipedia is not the place for this kind of nonsense. Unless you have EVIDENCE that the source is not credible , please don't go making outrageous claims about the incompetence or bad practice of sources just because they compromise your position.--Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 01:08, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • I don't know what the heck is your problem with me quoting from that. Even if WP:ATA wasn't there to begin with, arguing that this should be kept because there exists a worse page still is nauseatingly stupid. If anything, it means that you should take a minute more of your time to nominate those articles for deletion.AKFrost 17:15, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • As for the column bribery thing, I am using it to illustrate that columns are inherently unreliable. Hell, I can write a column about Ogabogabogie or something stupid. Does that make Ogabogabogie notable? What about if me and all my friends did? Does the reliability of columns somehow increase because there are other columns to back it up? I am not accusing the modders of buying or authoring the columns. I am using that to dispute the reliability of columns as a source.AKFrost 17:15, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • I am repeating what I said because people blatantly ignore what I said, so I figure I should reiterate it so you could not possibly miss it. What, we've gotten the "What about article X" argument from how many people now? Even after I repeatedly stated that I don't give a rat's ass about what those other articles are? Don't blame me for reiterating, blame them for not reading. I don't care if you list the entire cesspit of wikipedia on this AfD. It means ZERO to me as far as this AfD is concerned. It means to me that you have a lot of work to do by nominating all of them for deletion. Again, read what I have said a million times: argue only on this article's merits.AKFrost 17:15, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • In fact, you seem quite happy to alienate me, Oni Ookami Alfador. I also ask you, how am I to achieve consensus with anybody if they choose not to return for the debate after their initial post? AKFrost 17:15, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • 76.102.199.11 is me, forgot to log in. AKFrost 00:02, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • I hardly think effort or pride contributes to notability. Again, these articles don't have much more to go. You can't put the plot in it because regardless of what you say, without a direct statement from EA, your claim that you're expanding on EA's storyline is unfounded. Again, noncommercial fanfiction without endorsement doesn't belong on wikipedia. Without the plot, what is there really to say about these mods? You're practically limited to nothing here. Wiki is not a game manual so you can't go into depth about the game mechanics (maybe a couple of lines at most.) Add that to a description and possible awards it won, and you have what, 10 - 12 lines? Is that enough for an article? Can you expand on it further? If you can't, why do these deserve articles?
    Again, I don't care what those anime/game/book/comics are. I take my time looking at the C&C material. Those articles you pointed to are either: stubs, with possible expansion; or AfD Material. Now, why don't you nominate them for deletion or expand on them? I ask again: How does the existence of an even more poorly written article justify the keeping of these articles?
    Finally, I acknowledge that it's a lot of work to make a mod, but does that mean it deserves a position on wikipedia? They're not worthless, but they aren't notable either for wikipedia's purposes. There is a wikia project that you can put your mod on. There are other things you can do with them like merge into a single page. Apparently pride is getting too much to you, seeing that you'd think it's an insult that something you've worked on doesn't get covered. As wikipedia's editors, you have to be objective in views. If this is something you didn't work on or play, would you be more inclined to say it's a keep? I've worked on quite a plethora of mods for both C&C and Starcraft, should I be upset or offended because my work is not getting coverage?AKFrost (talk) 02:28, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • That's hardly a reason to keep the article, seeing that every article ever written on wikipedia have some kind of useful value, yet a good number of them was deleted. Nobody is making the "no one cares" argument. I suggest you look at WP:IINFO for the relevant policy. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. AKFrost 04:56, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment Thank you for your suggestion, but I'd like to point out that I do not meant to insult with the statement about bribing columnists. I'm merely suggesting a possible way which they may be abused to establish notability, and with that the inherent unreliability of isolated reviews/columns/blog posts. I found the sources cited for these articles to be extremely unreliable (AFAIK they are just claims, or one of these editors who disagree with me would have came up with enough evidence to immediately disprove my claim, keep the pages, and have everyone move on in life.) My personal notability requirement (I know, Oni Ookami Alfador, that you don't care what I think, but it's what drove me to nominate this AfD, and people should know), as I stated many times before, is either that it's a commercial product, or in the event which it can't due to copyright laws, that the copyright holder endorses it. It means something if people are willing to pay their hard-earned money to buy your work. A lot more than just an award, even if it is from a modder's guild. If anything, the award just means that the mod is in their opinion one of the best mods, but in the grand scheme of things not really that outstanding. I'll admit, I was a bit irked that the canon material was getting deleted as unnotable (they did a horrendous job with the Tacitus, now it's impossible to tell what it is, when they had an entire page detailing it before) while these pages are somehow pulling through on just citations to blog posts and supposed awards. AKFrost (talk) 00:16, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Another comment: Didn't mean to counter-insult you, I was trying to be humourous with my columnist statement, and while I'll help out on maintenance (not on this account, of course), I don't think I'll be doing a ton of work on Wikipedia, I got too addicted last time... it's hard to be funny on the internet, btw. In any case, a lot of things on the internet (even Wikipedia) are unreliable. I can't say I agree or disagree with your notability requirements (I think I mainly used the Google + News Source tests). Now, though, looking at the sources we DO have for mods (which seem to be kind of polarized on notability issues), such as ModDB, things like their Mod of the Year award (80k votes last year, with Mental Omega being a runnerup in the Strategy Genre Mod of the Year category... the opinion of 80k may not be much in the scheme of life, but it's more than a select few) and other open votes would provide some manner of notability measurement. Others, like Halogen, have been mentioned on blogs or the like over a few particular incidents (Getting canned by MS in favour of Halo Wars). Shockwave was apparently in a German PC magazine this year ([25]) and others have had much more success at times. The real question, I guess, is how should Wikipedia, as a whole, determine notability? And that's a question that may have to left for ages, because I doubt we'll ever find a happy consensus. Logical2u (talk) 02:27, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • 'Comment This is why I won't object to moving to wikia or merging as a single list. I think as a list, perhaps at Notable Mods of the Command and Conquer Series, would be a reasonable compromise. The information should be preserved, just not as articles. Mental Omega's Plot synopsis is completely unnecessary, as I have stated before. Since none of these four mods are commercial software, it makes little sense to treat them the same way as commercial games. I don't mean to be too materialistic, but a game obviously has a lot more weight if people are willing to pay for it, and I think that's what makes games article-notable rather than inclusion within a list. AKFrost (talk) 03:38, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Better be careful there... according to AKF, the videogame illuminati have infiltrated the magazines and news sites!--Oni Ookami AlfadorTalk|@ 19:44, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment Oni Ookami Alfador, I refer you to WP:POINT Again, you clearly have nothing to do here but to latch on that one thing I said and beat the dead horse to a second grave. If you have nothing to contribute, then stay off the topic.AKFrost (talk) 00:57, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment What makes a book, an anime TV show, a band or a person notable? According to WP:N's general notability guideline, a "topic is presumed to be notable if it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." CWC clearly fits that bill, and with a little work, ShockWave may be shown to do so, too. The others? I don't see much hope there. Huon (talk) 22:04, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment How do you demonstrate the reliability and independence of those sources? And as of time of writing, CWC still doesn't have any citations. The sources cited are:
       * http://planetcnc.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Previews.Detail&id=36
       * August Edition of PC Games Magazine.
       * August Edition of PC Action Magazine.
    

    It goes without saying that the magazine citations are of questionable relevance because nothing in the article tells us what is pulled from these megazines. I didn't bother reading the column, but it's still problematic to assume reliability on this one post. Can anyone provide more instances of CWC in other forums? I believe WP:N requests for significant coverage. These three sources hardly seem significant if you can't even tell us what it said. I actually disagree with Huon, Shockwave at least put up some semblence of an article with citations, whereas CWC have nothing. AKFrost (talk) 00:57, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    • Comment um.... the articles establish it's notabilty, and the article is written around the facts of the mod itself. "nothing in the article tells us what is pulled from the magazines"... what does that matter? The magazines showed the mod, the article shows what the mod is. Unless the reverse vampires and the rand corporation infilitrated the magazines as well Macktheknifeau (talk) 13:07, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment um.... no. Unless you can provide the page which the magazines refer to the mods, you can't establish the relevance of the magazines. On top of that, the article lacks citations. WP:NOR Requires every claim/statement to be sourced and property cited. How about providing a page scan, or even just a quote or a page number? I'm certain most people who post here, especially those who vote for keep, would have a vested interest in these mods, and perhaps have the magazines to provide more sources. The burden of proof is on you to establish verifiability and relevance. You can't just put a random magazine and claim it talks about the mods without a proper citation. If these magazine sources are valid, then it would be trivial to provide page numbers and quotes, something I'm not seeing in these articles, despite having its notability challenged back in november. AKFrost (talk) 20:05, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Also, I suggest you look at Wikipedia:Citing sources#Full references. They clearly required page numbers from printed material. AKFrost (talk) 20:20, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    *Comment "Notability challenged"? I see nothing to that effect at all. In short, the mod is notable, the articles shown are from notable magazines or websites. There is NO reason to delete this article. Yes, it can be improved. But so can every other article. As well as that, Wikipedia:Citing sources#Full references is "Generally" accepted and "is not set in stone" and should be treated with common sense and The occasional execption. I think this is clearly a case where common-sense should prevail and the exception made. These clearly show it did receive the printed press coverage. Please, if you have another wacky conspiracy theory, maybe the mod makers paid the game magazines to do the article, or maybe it's photoshopped and ninjaed into the full magazine by a elite stealth team of modders, do share with us.
    http://www.cold-war-crisis.de/pics/press/pca1.jpg
    http://www.cold-war-crisis.de/pics/press/pcg1.jpg
    http://www.cold-war-crisis.de/pics/press/gs1.jpg
    http://www.cold-war-crisis.de/pics/press/gs2.jpg
    http://www.cold-war-crisis.de/pics/press/gs3.jpg

    Macktheknifeau (talk) 06:36, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    • Was it so difficult for you to provide the scans so you could substantiate your claim? Or do you think that making snide comments about what I said somehow make the article worth a keep? Can you get back on topic and stop beating a dead horse. Now, please. Put these on the article and have done with it. Finally, WP:IAR and WP:UCS only applies if you have good reason, which, again, you've neglected to state. I can't read your mind, and I certainly did not know the existence of these prints until now. Don't assume that what you know, everybody else knows. Bring out the evidence. AKFrost (talk) 06:58, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Finally, you'll note your style of debate is fundamentally flawed. I will dissect what you said and hopefully it will become clear on you.
    • ""Notability challenged"? I see nothing to that effect at all." This is your personal opinion. Your opinion counts no more than mine, do not make it sound like it's a fact, or somehow your judgment makes it right.
    • " In short, the mod is notable, the articles shown are from notable magazines or websites. " Again, this is a claim. I don't care how self-evident you think your arguments are. Don't assume I can fill in all your blanks for you. Why is it notable? What articles? What websites? Can you please specify?
    • "There is NO reason to delete this article." Based on previous faulty logic, you have not convinced me at all.
    • "Yes, it can be improved. But so can every other article." Is this even necessary? Am I even debating this point? I agree it can be improved, and if you haven't noticed yet, the reason I asked for evidence is to improve the article. What you had before does not satisfy WP:N in any way. When you argue, you have to use hard facts, not something easily fabricated (This being putting the name of a magazine without any scans, page numbers, etc, which was the case at the time.)
    • "As well as that, Wikipedia:Citing sources#Full references is "Generally" accepted and "is not set in stone" and should be treated with common sense and The occasional execption. I think this is clearly a case where common-sense should prevail and the exception made." Just because it's "Generally" , "is not set in stone" and the existence of WP:IAR does not mean they don't apply at all. Rather, you'll have to show us why it doesn't apply. Since you provided the scans and page numbers, these policies can be followed. I don't know what you're trying to argue, but whatever it is doesn't make any sense.
    • "These clearly show it did receive the printed press coverage." Again, what are "these"? Do I have to play guess what it is every time I talk to you? Can you please be specific?
    • "Please, if you have another wacky conspiracy theory, maybe the mod makers paid the game magazines to do the article, or maybe it's photoshopped and ninjaed into the full magazine by a elite stealth team of modders, do share with us." Um. I don't, and this fails WP:Civility. I don't know why you think it's okay to make such comments repeatedly, but it doesn't help the discussion any.
    • Finally, When I went to your talk page, you claimed you saved CWC already. This issue is not dead yet. You're being pretentious about your own editing, inadequate as it is. AKFrost (talk) 07:09, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Note I have added the sources Macktheknifeau provided to us to the article. Now we just need citations. Unfortunately, I can't read German, Can somebody help out then? AKFrost (talk) 07:25, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:27, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Aaron Payas[edit]

    Aaron Payas (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    I don't see how this football player is notable enough for Wikipedia. He plays for Gibraltar, which is a non-recognized national football team, and he scored a goal at the 2007 Island Games. It appears that he's now playing for Harlow Town F.C. in the Isthmian League Premier Division, the 7th level of English club football, but he is not listed in the article's Current Squad section. The only other records I could find of him online were that he played for Manchester United Gibraltar in the 2002-03 season, and that he was named 2002 Young Footballer of the Year in Gibraltar. AecisBrievenbus 10:22, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


    The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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    The result was delete as a non-notable joint venture, with only a single good source, which fails to verify its importance. Ample chances to improve the article have failed. Bearian (talk) 02:21, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Innovative communications alliance[edit]

    Innovative communications alliance (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    What notability does an agreement between two companies have? It is just an interoperability agreement; thousands of such agreements are there in place. In fact, similar agreements exist between MS and other companies like Cisco et al, and I'm sure even Nortel would have. What has the partnership resulted in? Till now, just an outline of how the interoperability will proceed. Thats suitable for a press release, not an encyclopedia article. soum talk 10:50, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


    Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
    Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spellcast (talk) 10:14, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was delete. W.marsh 23:08, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Niagara Falls Cyclones[edit]

    Niagara Falls Cyclones (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Unverifiable article on a non-notable baseball team. 5 ghits. TLDR also applies to this extensive diary of events. MER-C 12:19, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


    Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
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    The result was merge to Dane Rauschenberg. If you are unsure, still, of Rauschenberg's notability then the solution is to AFD that article. Neil  11:17, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Fiddy2[edit]

    Fiddy2 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This article does not meet the notability criteria for a website. If notability is to be judged by the underlying task of running 52 marathons on consecutive weekends, at least three other people have done it before. If notability is to be judged on running a number of marathons in a year, other people have run more. Similarly, other people have run more consecutive weekends. Whenever the article is edited to remove NPOV problems, IP address only editors come back and re-add POV in a manner which suggests major WP:COI problems. Any objective reader must question whether this entire matter is about fund-raising or about self-generating publicity. The external references are not hard news coverage, but rather non-discriminating media reflecting the numerous press releases that are described in the article. If every runner posted a wikitable with his/her past races, Wikipedia would be overwhelmed with non-notable data. The posting of finishing place without stating the size of the total field is misleading and POV, and efforts to add the total field sizes to the table meet with repeated deletion by the WP:COI contributors. In short, this is an ego trip rather than a serious article and does not meet any standard of notability. Xcstar (talk) 09:02, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    The question is whether there is anything notable here. During 2006, two people ran 50 marathons in 50 days Sam Thompson and Karnazes. Chuck Engle ran 51 marathons that year because one was cancelled at the last minute, but his average time was about 30 minutes faster than Dane's. A number of people have run marathons on consecutive weekends, including streaks of 73 and over 100. A number of people have run more than 52 marathons in the same year. There is nothing unique about the year 2006 or about the number 52, yet the claim to notability is that Rauschenberg is the only person to have run exactly 52 marathons in the year 2006. Efforts to edit the articles to place this "achievement" in context are always reverted, and if the article remains there is no prospect of an end to WP:COI and WP:NPOV problems. Rauschenberg is admittedly a genius at self-promotion as demonstrated by his use of Wikipedia, yourrunning.com, and allsportrunning.com, but Wikipedia should not be misused to legitimize this. Xcstar (talk) 13:37, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • This is only getting more disturbing. The issue of Dane Rauschenberg's notability has already been settled at that article's AfD. You -- and some ten other sockpuppets -- were actively trying to push that argument at that AfD and in editing that article, and that view was rejected. Wikipedia does not require someone to be "unique", merely notable. Even by your argument, Rauschenberg would be one of a small handful of individuals to have run 50+ marathons that year, which would still be a rather strong claim of notability. Clearly, notability has already been demonstrated for Rauschenberg. It is at best improper to try to fight that old AfD here, where Rauschenberg's notability is not even a relevant question. The only question before us is whether his list of accomplishments belongs in a separate article or should be combined with his article. It's time to end this obsession with Rauschenberg. Ten sockpuppets have already been blocked due to this one article. Please don't be number eleven. Alansohn (talk) 16:03, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    The issue of notability for websites (and this article appears to be about the fiddy2.org website) is clear WP:WEB "The content itself has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the site itself." It clearly fails. (criteria 2 and 3 are not applicable.) The issue of notability for fiddy2 as a fundraising organization also fails. As to whether either fiddy2 or Rauschenberg meet the notability test in general, they do not because primarily of WP:NOT#ADVERTISING and also because the sources mistakely relied upon by the Rauschenberg advocates are not "published secondary source material which is reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject." Instead, they are uncritical recycling of the press releases generated by Rauschenberg.
    My proposed solution is to add a subsection to the marathon article to cover multiple marathon achievements. At the most, fiddy2/Rauschenberg could gain a passing reference in such a subsection. Separate articles on fiddy2 and on Rauschenberg are not warranted and never have met the notability test. Xcstar (talk) 16:45, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • This is only getting more desperate. As stated in the first sentence of this article, "Fiddy2 was Dane Rauschenberg's project to run one marathon every weekend in 2006". WP:WEB has no relevance, as it has nothing to do with the content of a website. WP:NOT#ADVERTISING is also a non-starter as there is nothing being advertised here. This is nothing more than a back door effort to subvert the failure to delete the Dane Rauschenberg article by deleting this one, and using excuses for deletion that are ever more unjustified. Rauschenberg is notable; a list of his efforts probably is not notable; they should be merged to their parent article. Alansohn (talk) 17:05, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • My new proposal is that we delete fiddy2 and at most add a sentence to Marathon#Multiple Marathons. The fiddy2 article is an obvious attempt to drive traffic to fiddy2.org where fundraising and the sale of fiddy2 logo merchandise continues. I have yet to see a "published secondary source material which is reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject" that supports a claim of notability. Minor plugs prompted by Rauschenberg's press releases do not qualify. Xcstar (talk) 18:26, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • "New proposal"?!?!?! Your proposal all along has been to delete this article. The problem is that the article you're discussing for deletions is the Dane Rauschenberg article, which is not up for discussion now, and whose deletion attempt failed, despite your actions and those of a whole myriad of sockpuppets. Your clairvoyance as to the motives behind the creation of the article are not credible, nor are your attempts at disrupting this article. The "published secondary source material which is reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject" that supports a claim of notability is all at Dane Rauschenberg, where this material belongs. It's time to end the obsession with Dane Rauschenberg and stop the sockpuppetry. You are rapidly approaching 90% of your edits being directly related exclusively to Dane Rauschenberg. Alansohn (talk) 19:24, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • The deletion of the fiddy2 article remains my primary recommendation. I have concluded that due to WP:COI and WP:NPOV problems, it will never evolve into something worthwhile. As a counter-proposal to the suggestion that the wikitable be merged into the Dane Rauschenberg article, I am proposing that at most one sentence be added to the new Marathon#Multiple marathons subarticle. None of the participants in the AfD here were the parties to the past vandalism of either article, and I assume the good faith of all participants. I don't understand the orgin of the "fiddy2" name or its significance, other than it was arbitarily chosen as the name for the fiddy2.org website and the 2006 project. However, applying either the WP:WEB or WP:NOTE in general, all the references are "coverage with low levels of discrimination" and the fiddy2 article lacks long-term reference value or significance.
    • The wikitable does not contain valuable information, and merely duplicates the information on the fiddy2.org website. The data was included by Fiddy2, who is presumably a sockpupet of Dane Rauschenberg. The new Marathon#Multiple marathons subarticle contains a reference to a man who has run 945 marathons in his lifetime, but it would be inappropriate to include a wikitable listing all 945 marathons in that article. Similarly, Cal Ripken Jr. has an admirable streak of 2,632 consecutive major league baseball games, but it would be inappropriate to include a wikitable listing the details of each of those games. Greater reference value comes from a wikitable or list of notable multiple marathon achievements (e.g., the 25 runners who have completed the most marathons.) Xcstar (talk) 19:58, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • In Rauschenberg's case, the 52 marathons are specifically relevant to his notability, and the table provided here not only belongs in that article, but clearly supports his claim of notability. While Cal Ripken and 945 marathon guy all ended up with a record, Rauschenberg set out to achieve this particular goal, one that is supported bu ample independent, reliable and verifiable sources that support his notability, appearing before, during and after his effort. Your goal of deleting this article and the associated article for Rauschenberg seem merely a part of an effort to be disruptive. Appeals to "WP:COI and WP:NPOV problems" are merely an excuse to justify the disruption. This acknowledged abusive sockpuppetry must end. Alansohn (talk) 21:11, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was Keep but add references. Davewild (talk) 22:13, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Grand strategy game[edit]

    Grand strategy game (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Not a notable genre. Sometimes grand strategy is mentioned in the context of other strategy games, but not enough to qualify it as a unique genre. Violates 1: not notable, 2: original research, 3: overcategorization —Preceding unsigned comment added by Randomran (talkcontribs) 07:13, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 12:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Evolution computer game[edit]

    Evolution computer game (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Not a real genre. Made up genres will violate 1: not notable, 2: original research, 3: overcategorization


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    The result was merge with Breakout clones. Done. Neil  11:12, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Block kuzushi[edit]

    Block kuzushi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    1: not notable, 2: original research, 3: overcategorization

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    The result was Delete all. — Scientizzle 16:55, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Victor Kahu[edit]

    Victor Kahu (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Fictional characters from Shortland Street with no sign of real world notability. Pak21 (talk) 08:52, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Also nominating for the same reason:

    Baxter Cormack (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
    Ian Jeffries (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
    Jay Jeffries (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
    Shanti Kumari (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
    Sarah Samuels (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
    James Scott (character) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
    Craig Valentine (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
    Harry Warner (character) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
    Mark Weston (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
    Tania Weston (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
    Tuesday Warner (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)


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    The result was keep. Neil  11:10, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Gran March[edit]

    Gran March (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Fictional location from a game guide has no real-world context or reliable secondary sources to demonstrate notability outside the Greyhawk canon. --Gavin Collins (talk) 17:18, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Keep or Merge to Flanaess. Attempts to improve articles should be made before deletion--try that, and take a break from your deletion spree.--Robbstrd (talk) 22:45, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was keep. Neil  10:56, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Brightcove[edit]

    Brightcove (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Article fails WP:NOTABILITY, WP:CORP, WP:NOT, WP:SPAM and WP:COI. Article was created by an WP:SPA account with no other edits other than related to Brightcove. Was speedied six times under WP:CSD#G11, as spam advertising. Has a many links but they seem to be merely trivial coverage or mentions including 63 self references to sites owned by Brightcove. Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not sufficient to establish notability. The depth of coverage of the subject by the source must be considered. which is clearly noted in the notability guidelines. Advert.Self-promotion and product placement are not the routes to having an encyclopaedia article.

    See also - Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spam#http:.2F.2Fspam.brightcove.com ---Hu12 (talk) 08:21, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was Delete. — Scientizzle 16:54, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Dogg Aaron[edit]

    Dogg Aaron (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Delete Article asserts notability, but unsourced, and unable to find independent evidence of the author or any of his works. Seems to be non-notable Mayalld (talk) 07:57, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was DeleteCaknuck 07:04, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Tetcos[edit]

    Tetcos (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Article fails WP:NOTABILITY, WP:CORP. Article was created by an WP:SPA account with no other edits other than related to Tetcos. Self-promotion and product placement are not the routes to having an encyclopaedia article. Hu12 (talk) 07:22, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:26, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    James M. McCanney[edit]

    James M. McCanney (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Mathematician and physicist of unknown notability. A Google search for <McCanney "dipole red shift"> suggests that his work is mostly discussed only in Internet forums and his own website. [31] The only cited references are self-written articles and a biography from his own site. Thus fails WP:BIO due to lack of multiple independent sources that mention him in detail. Pegasus «C¦ 07:16, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Delete. — Scientizzle 16:53, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Mark Scudder[edit]

    Mark Scudder (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Article fails to establish WP:N as either a DJ or a musician. Torc2 (talk) 06:34, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Yes, please, for the love of God, delete this crap. Never wanted it here, and it's just become a flame farm. Good riddance. -- Mark Scudder —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.193.185.163 (talk) 05:34, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:26, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Diane Engber[edit]

    Diane Engber (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Stx16gn and 66.162.225.68 made a number of edits to this article, gushing about Ms. Engber. Ordinarily, I would just remove those statements to make the article more balanced, but as it is, the article doesn't seem to make a good case for notability. Many significant assertions go unsourced, and the few sources that are provided are unconvincing. For instance, a "Donor Honor Roll" is provided as evidence that she is "on a plateau of feminist writers and teachers". (Disclosure: She was my high school English teacher, but this deletion nomination has nothing to do with that.) – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 05:31, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. Pegasus «C¦ 07:26, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Leban Mohamed Nour[edit]

    Leban Mohamed Nour (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Appears to be a hoax Captain Smartass (talk) 05:09, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was Speedy delete as hoax, non-admin closure. Ten Pound Hammer(Broken clamshellsOtter chirps) 06:01, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Matthew Steven Blacklock[edit]

    Matthew Steven Blacklock (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Most likely a hoax "...performed open heart surgery at age 5..." VivioFateFan (Talk, Sandbox) 04:56, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was Merge & redirect. — Scientizzle 17:36, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Jon Levasseur[edit]

    Jon Levasseur (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Unfortunately, while his band affiliation appears to be somewhat notable, he himself for his music and guitar work don't appear to be notable enough for inclusion. When checking, I see on one search, and another search that he doesn't seem to meet our needs for independent coverage. That is a Google news archive search; and note the many duplicate articles. Recommend delete for now. • Lawrence Cohen 19:50, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


    Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
    Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Kubigula (talk) 04:54, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:25, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Nebraska Leadership Seminar[edit]

    Nebraska Leadership Seminar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Non-notable seminar. Zero sources satisfying WP:RS attached ot the article. A quick google search [32] yields nothing notable. meshach (talk) 04:30, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:25, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Wainwright Jeffers[edit]

    Wainwright Jeffers (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Was tagged for speedy for no assertion of notability. I don't think it quite meets that criteria, but there are clearly notability questions as well as the article being autobiographical CitiCat 04:07, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Supressão (For the Portuguese authorities ;) per WP:SNOW— Preceding unsigned comment added by SkierRMH (talkcontribs)

    Turing, Kenneth Alan[edit]

    Turing, Kenneth Alan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    No evidence this person exists, just a rambling conspiracy theory. Dougie WII (talk) 03:50, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was speedy delete as copyvio and redirect to Characters of Final Fantasy X and X-2#Yu Yevon. Pegasus «C¦ 03:53, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Yeven[edit]

    Yeven (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Information already exists at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yu_Yevon#Yu_Yevon Oopsadoodle (talk) 03:46, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was Keep based on improvements and something of a nomination withdrawl. — Scientizzle 23:09, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Crossroads Mall (Florida)[edit]

    Crossroads Mall (Florida) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Non-notable former mall in Florida, fails WP:RS. Ten Pound Hammer(Broken clamshellsOtter chirps) 03:44, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Delete since the lack of reliable sources has not been overcome.--Tikiwont (talk) 13:57, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Christopher Caldwell (programmer)[edit]

    Christopher Caldwell (programmer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Strong delete This article on a programmer which is, on closer look, a blatant autobiography by the subject. Most of the information is admitted to be "from the subject" and hence unverifiable. And as I detailed on the talk page:

    I am afraid I just do not see any notability (according to our guideline) here. This article comes the closest to such an assertion, but from this article we know only that Caldwell is the CTO of a (former) tech company.

    Searching Google for keywords relating to this person's various claims to notability yield sorry results:

    Although this person has written articles that appeared in at least one major magazine [37], the threshold of notability is that there are multiple reliable and independent sources that write about the subject in detail. The subject of this article, on closer inspection, falls well short of this threshold. Pegasus «C¦ 03:39, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was delete. Neil  10:48, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    List of Futurama places[edit]

    List of Futurama places (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    The article is not notable, and has no references to verify its contents. As such, it is just an in-universe repetition of various plot facts from Futurama episode articles, and is totally duplicative of those articles. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 02:43, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    All articles are evaluated on their own, not as a part of any other article, so this one has to establish its own notability. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:26, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    No, individual topics just have to satisfy WP:N on their own, but the article does not have to be judged absolutely independently of the main article. WP:FICT: "In these situations, the sub-article should be viewed as an extension of the parent article, and judged as if it were still a section of that article." Torc2 (talk) 23:37, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:FICT also says this; "Avoid creating new articles on fictional topics that lack substantial real-world content (and ideally an out-of-universe perspective) from the onset. Editors must prove, preferably in the article itself, that there is an availability of sources providing real-world information". This article has not done this and needs to to avoid deletion. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:14, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I see a distinction between "creating" an article and spinning it off from a parent article. The sources would be the episodes themselves; granted these are primary sources and not secondary sources, but as the article should be considered a sub-article of Futurama, the sources there should be sufficient to establish notability. "Preferably" doesn't imply an absolute requirement, and a guideline such as WP:FICT must be somewhat flexible if it hopes to apply to every possible topic. Torc2 (talk) 23:37, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    You are still ignoring the part where it says that the article must prove its notability through substantial rewl world information, and this has demonstrated done. It must do that in order to not be deleted. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 23:40, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    No, I'm saying the notability is partially inherited from the main Futurama article and doesn't need to be reestablished here as completely as a stand-alone article would. This is essentially part of the Futurama article that has been broken off (as opposed than a stand-alone article created from scratch) and is bound by WP:NNC more than WP:FICT; it only needs to meet WP:V, and does so using primary sources. Torc2 (talk) 00:12, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    It cannot establish verifiability only through primary sources, it needs to establish its significence through real world content, it is not ok for articles to remain permanently a B class in-universe unreferenced article. And by the way, when did the fiction guidelines become unimportant or ignorable? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 16:31, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    The real world content of the main article is in part inherited by the sub-article. The Fiction guideline isn't unimportant or ignorable, just subservient to WP:IAR. Insisting that an article must stand completely isolated on its own is a damaging ideology for Wiki; editors need to recognize that size constraints are the only reason an article like this exists separately of its main topic, so to ignore the notability of the main article while judging the sub-article isn't healthy for Wikipedia. It's the same reason why an album automatically becomes notable if it's from a notable band, even though the album article, judged in complete isolation, wouldn't be notable. Futurama more than adequately meets any notability guideline you want to throw at it; some users researching the the topic absolutely will be interested in a list of places in Futurama; trying to argue about the notability of the article in isolation just doesn't work. Torc2 (talk) 20:49, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Its useful is not a criteria, what it contributes to Wikipedia is the criteria. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 19:26, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    You and other "Keepers" need to establish it has notability to stop deletion, as it cannot leech credibility off of the show. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:08, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Which, of course, was also just nominated for deletion. Torc2 (talk) 01:06, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was keep. Neil  10:32, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Planet Express Ship[edit]

    Planet Express Ship (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    The article is not notable, and has no references to verify its contents. As such, it is just an in-universe repetition of various plot facts from Futurama episode articles, and is totally duplicative of those articles. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 02:43, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Also, the article was previously nominated in October 2006 and has seen no improvement. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 02:44, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    comment - This passed the first AfD overwhelmingly without any mention of the article needing improvement. Torc2 (talk) 21:16, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Consensus can change, but notability is permanent. It was agreed in the first vote that the ship was sufficiently notable. Basically all this AfD is check to see if the show is currently less popular than it was this time last year, which certainly goes against the spirit of WP:N#Notability_is_not_temporary. Torc2 (talk) 21:13, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment - To those who want to keep the article, when you say its notable, please demonstrate how, as this process allows for the establishment of notability with reliable sources, so we know your right. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 15:29, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    To the closer, please remember to only consider arguments that actual have something to do with Wikipedia policy such as notability and reliable sourcing, not "I like it" and "It's useful". Judgesurreal777 (talk) 16:13, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment - It's a significant character on a notable TV show, voiced by a very notable actress (granted, for only one episode). It has its own action figure (one of only five characters) and Planet Express ship generates 1.47m Ghits. This has more than adequately passed WP:N. Torc2 (talk) 21:11, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Weak Keep with the added refs, just scrapes through as a sub-article. RMHED (talk) 14:26, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • comment - From WP:FICT. "Sub-articles are sometimes born for technical reasons of length or style." Seems like that's the case here. Torc2 (talk) 22:42, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • And the very next part of the sub-article section from WP:FICT goes on to say; "Even these articles need real-world information to prove their notability, but must rely on the parent article to provide some of this background material (due to said technical reasons). In these situations, the sub-article should be viewed as an extension of the parent article, and judged as if it were still a section of that article. Such sub-articles should clearly identify themselves as fictional elements of the parent work within the lead section, and editors should provide as much real-world content as possible." So in other words it still needs to be individually sourced with real world info. RMHED (talk) 01:19, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Which it does, more than sufficiently (especially after User:Stardust8212's updates).Torc2 (talk) 01:48, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    If it can be improved with references it will have asserted notability, not because it was "in a movie". Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:33, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Apparently, they even made toys of it. Best, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 22:36, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    That is it? That wont sustain a whole article, that would probably fit as a part of a popular culture section for the main Futurama article. If we find a lot more, thats what we call notability. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:48, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, check here for more. Regards, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 22:53, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment - My heart is warming toward the article, Stardust, and I thank you for being the only one at AFD that seems to understand that this is an opportunity not to complain but to improve articles. If you can find just a bit more, I think I can support keeping the article. Good work. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 01:52, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    AfD'ing an article isn't a good way to "suggest" improvement. It's essentially taking a gun to an editor's head and saying "fix this like I want now or die!" This article went untagged for notability or sources, and was not tagged merger. AfD should only be used if there's nothing salvageable about the article. Torc2 (talk) 02:04, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    And there may still not be enough for its own article, and a few hours ago it was garbage. Would you prefer I say "delete it anyway?" I am willing to admit I am wrong if I am proven wrong, and in this case I may have been mistaken, and it will be to Wikipedia's benefit. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 02:09, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm suggesting that you tag articles and give editors a couple weeks to fix them up instead of immediately throwing an AfD at them and forcing them to fix it in a couple days. There are plenty of editors who don't check Wikipedia in a five-day span, let alone have enough time to put in the necessary research to fix the article up.Torc2 (talk) 02:16, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    And for many that I feel might be notable I do, and for the ones I suspect have no notability I do a Prod or Afd, which is standard. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 02:23, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    The prior AfD survival and lack of tags didn't trigger any worries that your suspicions might be wrong? That the article was largely fixed to your satisfaction in a matter of hours (even though it would have survived in its previous state) doesn't make you think you might have been too harsh? I'm just saying that you could keep the stress levels down and the AfD boards a little clearer if you give people a nudge through more traditional ways, as WP:AFD suggests. Torc2 (talk) 02:56, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    But I do, with articles that have a reasonable chance of being notable. This would be an exception, as the vast majority of the Afd's I have nominated have been deleted. And the previous AFD usually means that people with no regard for process or policy have blocked legitimate deletion. So I understand your point, but I do what you suggest already, even if this is a keepable article, which still needs to be established. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 04:04, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I would say merge, but I don't know if that would be the best parent article, too bad there isn't a technology in Futurama article...I agree, it is perhaps a better merger candidate at this point, Great job! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 04:43, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Well there was Technology (Futurama) which was merged into List of fictional devices in Futurama which was deleted four days ago. Alas! Stardust8212 05:23, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Actually, thinking about this it's possible that a better Technology in Futurama article could be created following the formula for Religion in Futurama. I would need to combine elements from Robots in Futurama (which is unreferenced anyway and could simply be redirected), Planet Express Ship and Suicide Booth and could also use some of the discussion from pages such as List of recurring human characters from Futurama#Celebrity heads. Obviously this would not be a list like the previously deleted content and I'd need to flesh out the real world content and babysit it quite a bit but it might be possible. If the decision here is to delete I may ask for a sandbox version of this article to build off of and if the decision is to keep perhaps some interested parties would come discuss this with me on a relevant talk page. Just another thought. Stardust8212 15:50, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Keep - I have noticed Juggs is doing this to a lot of futurama articles. I don't know what to make of that - this article has appeared in more episode of Futurama then the USAF Prometheus has in Stargate, and the Prometheus can keep it's page. One of many precidents that has been set - 202.10.80.69 (talk) 01:00, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    That doesn't matter; what matters is that this article has references and notability, and the arguement that "other articles suck equally or more" doesn't exempt this one. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 01:44, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    You just admitted this article has references and notability - why then are you nominating it for deletion? I can see 10 references and 3 other links alone citing this page for references, why is that insufficient? It would simply be easier to put "citation needed" where necessary. - 202.10.80.69 (talk) 02:16, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was merge/redirect to Futurama. I will merely redirect and leave merging to those interested. Mangojuicetalk 03:40, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Planet Express[edit]

    Planet Express (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    The article is not notable, and has no references to verify its contents. As such, it is just an in-universe repetition of various plot facts from Futurama episode articles, and is totally duplicative of those articles. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 02:43, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    If it has no references its not notable. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 17:51, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Please see this. Regards, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 17:57, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Absolutely nothing, just like the other google results you've posted. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 18:34, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. Neil  10:27, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    D.O.O.P.[edit]

    D.O.O.P. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    The article is about a fictional government from the Television show Futurama, and it asserts no notability with reliable out of universe sources, and as such is just an in-universe repetition of plot points from the various episodes that is entirely duplicative and unencyclopedic. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 02:22, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Just because wikipedians search for fiction articles doesn't mean we need this in-universe plot repetition without any encyclopedic value. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 15:22, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was Keep. --Oxymoron83 09:03, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Circle Drive[edit]

    Circle Drive (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    The road in question is not notable in any way. The Circle Drive article itself also contains no usefull information, merely stating that the southwestern portion of the road is part of the Yellowhead Highway. Circle Drive does not need a Wikipedia article.--CP 61 (talk) 02:13, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    • That's a good reason for a stub notice, not deletion. --Oakshade (talk) 02:29, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:24, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Push button click[edit]

    Push button click (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Originally ((prod))ed, author removed; may not meet notability requirements for groups and organizations nor notability requirements for musicians and ensembles; does not cite reliable, independent secondary sources, potential conflict of interest. slakrtalk / 02:10, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:20, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    List of Mortal Kombat arenas[edit]

    List of Mortal Kombat arenas (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Wikipedia is not a game guide, and besides that, this article is an in-universe repetition of plot and setting elements from the various Mortal Kombat game movie and book articles. As such, it is purely duplicative and has no encyclopedic content. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 01:55, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Unless you have a legitimate argument rooted in policy to argue for a Keep on these articles, there is no point to continuing to post keep on all these crufty fan articles. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:10, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Let's see, he said "a discriminate" (meaning not indiscriminate) "list of verifiable items from one of the most notable game series in history." How is this argument any less "rooted in policy" than your unsubstantiated assertion of "indiscriminate gamecruft"? Perhaps if AfD were treated as an actual attempt to discuss with the goal of reaching consensus instead of just a forum for repeating one's personal opinions and interpretations of policies and making fun of anyone who disagrees with them, there would be a point to this. DHowell 00:00, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Cruft isn't always an "I don't like it" argument, so stop acting like it is. I'm finding it very disruptive that you post that just about everytime someone mentions the word cruft. RobJ1981 (talk) 18:43, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:20, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Rice University Police Department[edit]

    Rice University Police Department (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Contested prod. Totally non-notable group. Ridernyc (talk) 01:45, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. It appears an extensive and very good faith effort has been made to find WP:RS and WP:V without success. Sources currently in the article are all tied to the official site (except download figures) and most apparently authored by the creators. The notability of Little Fighter Online does not confer notability to this title. Because of the lack of sources, merging info into that article does not seem a good idea. Pigman 06:59, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Little Fighter 2[edit]

    Little Fighter 2 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Article does not fulfill WP:N (specifically WP:SOFTWARE). The article is not listed for speedy deletion, as the current version is sufficiently different from the version that underwent the last AfD. Despite this, there has been no change in the subject or available sources. I personally have re-written the article and researched the subject, but the only sources I can find are primary sources, mostly from the game's official site. The title exists in game databases such as GameFAQs, IGN and Home of the Underdogs, but none of these have any content that can be used to establish notability. Several possible sources have been put forward in the article's discussion page, but none of them are reliable sources. The only professional source provided is the same Download.com download figure, which does not establish notability by itself. Scottie_theNerd 01:24, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Abrogo (delete) (the Latin citations were a traditional "dummy" typesetting text & comedy/tragedy play by Rev. Jacob Masen, SJ) SkierRMH (talk) 08:46, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Ubies[edit]

    Ubies (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Delete as hoax article. No real sources can be found for this "disease". None of the references given have any relevance to the subject. Contested prod. ... discospinster talk 01:21, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was Delete. Tikiwont 09:40, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Carl Oehling[edit]

    Carl Oehling (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    procedural nomination—This article was previously deleted after an expired PROD on 2007-09-02. It was subsequently re-created 2007-10-27 with the (partial) edit summary "Needed for comprehensive view of 2006 Gubernatorial Election". The first PROD reason: "failed political candidate"; the second PROD reason: "Non otable (sic) failed political cadidate". Both first and second PROD were applied by the same editor. User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 01:18, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Delete. — Scientizzle 16:51, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Nomadic Sun[edit]

    Nomadic Sun (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Delete fails WP:BAND, 1 release on a label and no evidence of meeting any other criteria there; sourced to myspace and the record label. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:46, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    I am also nominating the album

    Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:47, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Keep. Tikiwont 09:36, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Between the Beautifuls[edit]

    Between the Beautifuls (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Contested prod for an album to be released on January 29, 2008 Seems to fail notability. WP:CRYSTAL seems to apply. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 15:10, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    What better sources than the CBC and Chart, which is the primary Canadian music magazine, do you imagine could possibly exist? Bearcat 22:44, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    What better sources than the CBC and Chart, which is the primary Canadian music magazine, do you imagine could possibly exist? Bearcat 22:44, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Delete. — Scientizzle 16:50, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Apache James[edit]

    Apache James (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    There is an insufficient amount of independent reliable source material for this topic. The topic is not notable -- Jreferee t/c 02:50, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was delete. Pegasus «C¦ 03:48, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    List of Virgin Islands Creole phrases[edit]

    List of Virgin Islands Creole phrases (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Per WP:NOT and WP:V, this article is an unsourced indiscriminate list of phrases from Virgin Islands Creole; there is no criterion for exclusion as long as the phrase belongs to that language. Furthermore, as the article's creator says in this edit summary and my talk page, there may not be any resources that can verify lists of phrases for Virgin Islands Creole. Also, while there are pages like list of French phrases and list of Latin phrases, Virgin Islands Creole is not notable enough to have its own page of phrases Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 19:57, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    What do you mean "Virgin Islands Creole is not notable enough to have its own page of phrases"? Who determines what is notable? Why the bias? Also, this is not a prescriptive guide for "prospective speakers of such languages." Anglophone Caribbean creoles are usually only spoken by the native people of such Caribbean islands and can never be learned from reading a prescriptive guide. Vgmaster 22 November 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vgmaster (talkcontribs) 19:12, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    That there is little scholarly research on the subject, especially compared to languages like French or Russian, can serve as a more objective judgement of its notability. Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 22:10, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was no consensus. --- RockMFR 18:14, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Rocket jumping[edit]

    Rocket jumping (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Not one citation for this term, which might be made up, and no assertion of notability. The article appears to be a synthesis of gameplay elements from various games to make its point. It was nominated for deletion before, and is no more notable now than it was then. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 01:10, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Ok well that's good to know. The term appears to be a neologism still and seems to be limited to a dictionary definition type entry fit for wiktionary. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 01:33, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    There is a very simple question to be answered in this AFD, and that is, "does this article have notability?" Note I said "Simple", not "easy". Simple answers are often difficult to follow through on. If this article fails this simple test, it should be deleted. And I am not rushing, the article has 5 days to prove itself just like any other. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 23:19, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    *: This statement may sound impossibile. I hasten to add that I've also complimented a woman's breasts and not been taken as having an ulterior motive, and gotten hammered out of altruism. Doing the impossible is kind of fun.

    I added three references in newspapers that I found with LexisNexis, to help establish notability. It believe it would be easy to find citations for some of the factual material, especially in printed strategy guides for the games in question. — brighterorange (talk) 02:19, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment -But isn't this till a neologism, and should be at least moved to Wiktionary? What are peoples thoughts on this? Judgesurreal777 03:26, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think I understand your point. The term is 10 years old at a minimum, so that is at the far reaches of what one could consider a neologism in 2007. But even so, there is no prohibition on having articles about things with neologistic names. If you look at the neologism article, for instance, you'll find loads of examples of things that we say are neologisms with bluelinks to perfectly fine articles about them. The rule is WP:NOT a dictionary, and for that, we are simply not supposed to have articles that are dictionary definitions. This is clearly far more than a dictionary definition, because it discusses the history, its application in several different games, its appearance in movies, etc. — brighterorange (talk) 16:16, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    If you read the nomination and ensuing discussion, you will find that the issues are these; is this a neologism fit for wiktionary, and if that is true, is there anything encyclopedic remaining? Judgesurreal777 08:20, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    It would be great if you could add the TechTV segment as a reference. Is it online? Even if not, it would be a useful improvement to the article. — brighterorange (talk) 16:16, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Saying what something is is not the same as defining a word (and thus is in the scope of an encyclopedia article). Even still, the article does discuss the history, its varied appearance in several games, and outside of gaming. — brighterorange (talk) 16:16, 2 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was keep. Neil  10:24, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Annie Jennings[edit]

    Annie Jennings (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Unreferebced short stub on a superecentenarian, containing nothing which could not be included in a 1-line list entry. Had been merged by me ([42], [43]) to the List of British supercentenarians, but restored[44] without comment and without improvement. There is problem at all with having articles on extremely old people if they meet WP:BIO (see e.g. Katherine Plunket or Jerzy Pajaczkowski-Dydynski), longevity is no justification for recreating unreferenced stubs which say nothing more can be conveyed in a list entry and for whom notability is not established. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:07, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was keep. Neil  10:20, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Eva Morris[edit]

    Eva Morris (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Article on person claimed to have been the oldest in the world. Notability not established per WP:BIO; there are no refs to WP:RS reliable sources, let alone substantive ones to establish notability. This stub had been merged by me to List of British supercentenarians (see [45] and [46]]), but was subsequently unmerged without comment and without improvement. There is nothing in the article which could not be accommodated in a list, with a footnote to the effect that she "attributed her longevity to some whisky a day". --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:54, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was Keep, seems to be a clear consensus here. This closure is no reflection of my own !vote in it, but rather a reflection of the general consensus among other !votes. The discussion has been active for three days now, so I see no harm in closing it. Non-admin closure. Ten Pound Hammer(Broken clamshellsOtter chirps) 18:40, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Colonial Mall Valdosta[edit]

    Colonial Mall Valdosta (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Mall seems to fail notability criteria. Only claim to anything in the article is the fact that this mall siphoned five stores off of another shopping center. SchuminWeb (Talk) 00:46, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    • Changing vote to "weak keep" as I've added a couple sources. Ten Pound Hammer(Broken clamshellsOtter chirps) 03:37, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment If you read Wikipedia:Notability you will find no mention of locality in relation to notability. It says A topic is presumed to be notable if it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. The lack of multiple sources may be an issue. In this case it is more usual to merge the article with a more general article such as Valdosta, Georgia --Neon white (talk) 01:04, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment - Nominating an article for deletion 7 minutes after its been posted is suspicious none-the-less. --Mjrmtg (talk) 12:38, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment - Anything that can be proven "Based on previous AfDs", can also be refuted "Based on previous AfDs". AfD goes on a case by case basis. Your basing notability on size, see WP:BIG Exit2DOS2000TC 05:21, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was Keep reworked and renamed article, One Australia policy. --Fang Aili talk 18:52, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Racial policy of John Howard[edit]

    NOTICE: THIS ARTICLE HAS BEEN RENAMED, AND IS NOW TITLED: One Australia policy.

    One Australia policy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    An POV fork of John Howard that reflects a very narrow view of the subject. Wikipedia is not a soapbox. Mattinbgn\talk 00:42, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Comment To follow up from the nomination, the article title is grossly misleading as it barely mentions policy at all but is more a list of Howard's utterances on race and includes other's subjective opinions of Howard's views on race. -- Mattinbgn\talk 00:47, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    (The following comment is from the founding editor)

    In the same section it says that although biased content can be useful, to keep it you need to remove the bias. To keep this article it needs to be renamed or have more content on his actual policies and needs to have all the biased content made NPOV. However, IMO, if you removed all the biased content from this article, there'd be none left. I stated above that the article was factual, but the article is by no means NPOV and definitely does fit the description of a POV fork and that is enough to delete the article. Spawn Man (talk) 03:56, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    To follow on from Spawn Man, I think the response from BrownHairedGirl is a wise one. It would be a great blog entry but it does not even come close to meeting Wikipedia's Neutral point of view policy and is bordering on an attack page. If you want to write partisan political essays, start a blog; this is an encyclopaedia. -- Mattinbgn\talk 04:56, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    What is a racial policy exactly? What have sanctions against south africa, skilled immigration and aboriginal affairs got to do with each other? There is no racial policy of John Howard. It's nonsense. Nick mallory (talk) 13:13, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I think he had good intentions Prester, unlike your contributions page full of reverts. Timeshift 07:45, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree and see nothing to suggest Lester was acting in bad faith. Davewild 09:29, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Article rework, renamed One Australia policy The title has been changed to the less controversial One Australia policy, as this was the title of the policy chosen by John Howard himself. The article is a sincere attempt to document this policy from way back in 1988-1989, and the article has been limited to look at this period alone. Most of the politicians from that era are now out of politics, with the exception of Philip Ruddock, who was a major dissenter and voiced his objection to the policy. Some aspects of the article have previously existed in the John Howard biography, however, having a separate article allows for more scope and the inclusion of other Coalition members' involvement and quotes. Once again, all sentences are meticulously cited. I ask all editors to give the article a fresh appraisal, and to think of the historical importance of these events, almost 20 years ago. Thanks, Lester 00:19, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Lester has moved the page in direct violation to the policies outlined in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. Can an admin please move it back. Prester John -(Talk to the Hand) 00:16, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Pages often move during deletion debates - often spelling corrections, or finding a more NPOV title. As long as the AfD tag points to the correct location and the article remains listed on AfD, there is really no problem. Orderinchaos 21:57, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Hello, I moved the article using this guideline: Wikipedia:Guide_to_deletion#You_may_edit_the_article_during_the_discussion, and placed a notification at the top of this AfD page, per that guideline. I think the notices make the title change clear to other editors. The change in title is vital to the reworking of this article in answer to some of the concerns listed in comments above. I ask the Admins to allow this AfD process to continue for some more days, to allow time for the editors to view the changes, including the title change, and to add their revised comments. Thank you, Lester 00:57, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Lester asked me to comment on the article move to One Australia policy. He appears to have followed the Guide to deletion correctly and see no reason (in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion or elsewhere) for it to be moved back during this discussion (except if people think it was better under its previous title?). I am sure the closing admin will consider the whole discussion and any changes made to the article. Davewild 09:29, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Such a policy existed though, look at the sources. DEVS EX MACINA pray 10:27, 4 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was keep. Neil  10:17, 6 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Florrie Baldwin[edit]

    Florrie Baldwin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Notability not established per WP:BIO. One article of a few hundred words in a local paper, two refs in non-WP:RS sources, and nothing much to say about her other than that she is old and eats egg sandwiches. Article has been merged into List of British supercentenarians#Florrie_Baldwin, but has been unmerged, without improved references. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:41, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    What is a "major country" exactly? Cheers, CP 17:37, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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    The result was Dltd SkierRMH (talk) 08:54, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Dmplz[edit]

    Dmplz (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This is a article that had a prod placed on it, but was removed by the author. I believe it should be deleted because Wikipedia is not for Neologisms. Icestorm815 (talk) 00:30, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was Delete SkierRMH (talk) 08:56, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Richburgers[edit]

    Richburgers (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Blatant neologism. Has applicability to only one locale. Contested prod. eaolson (talk) 00:24, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was Delete. Acalamari 02:50, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Angel (Irish singer)[edit]

    Angel (Irish singer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Unreferenced, unsubstantiated if not questionable notability. Article seems to contradict itself (both boy band and girl group) Dougie WII (talk) 00:23, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was Speedy delete G7 (author requests deletion), deletion made by User:Edgar181, non-admin closure. Ten Pound Hammer(Broken clamshellsOtter chirps) 01:50, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Half-Life (+)[edit]

    Half-Life (+) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    The notability and very existence of "Madness Studios" is questionable, WP:CRYSTAL. VivioFateFan (Talk, Sandbox) 00:21, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    The result was delete. --Oxymoron83 08:53, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Proton International[edit]

    Proton International (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    This is a barely notable committee within a somewhat notable organisation. Anything that can be said about this committee should be said in the article about U.S.S. Proton, but that doesn't exist. AecisBrievenbus 00:06, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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    Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/User talk:202.76.162.34

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    The result was No consensus. — Scientizzle 20:46, 5 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    The Voice Of The Streets (album)[edit]

    The Voice Of The Streets (album) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    future album that has no sources to prove existence. Will (talk) 12:43, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]


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    The result was Speedy Deleted (by another admin). kingboyk (talk) 19:06, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

    Zero Artistic Movement[edit]

    Zero Artistic Movement (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD)

    Little to no assertions of notability. No sources provided. External links section dominated by Youtube and Myspace. kingboyk (talk) 17:46, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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