The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sr 13 02:30, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of counterculture films[edit]

AfDs for this article:

Renominating List of counterculture films for deletion as original research with apparently little hope for correction. In the original afd, which ended as No Consensus, the feeling was apparently that the article might be salvagable if the definition of what a "counterculture film" is could be tightened up with appropriate references. However that has not occured, and in fact the list appears to simply be a hodge podge of films that individual editors feel in their opinion are "counterculture". No verification is given to justify the classification of anything on the list, or even to justify that the term counterculture itself can be objectively defined. Since there seems to be no hope of bringing this list out of what is clearly original editor opinion status, delete. Dugwiki 16:34, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete what's to define if one film fits that and another doesn't. Edit war bait as well. Whs itc hy 16:39, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, same reasoning I used last time - the criteria for inclusion are too vague and subjective. Arkyan  ^(talk) 16:42, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete because "counterculture film" appears to be neologism, not landing a strong number of results with Google. The article for counterculture does not address counterculture in entertainment, but more societal topics, so the term seems even less appropriate than cult film. It would seem to be synthesis to take a reference that explains how the film contests society and tie it into the term of "counterculture film". List of cult films was similarly deleted for being highly interpretative, and I believe the arguments there also apply here even more strongly, especially with the term's lack of notability. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 16:58, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, as the list is totally without focus. --Rumblegoose 21:39, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete because it's just a list, with one vague opening sentence. Also because counterculture is too hard to define. Could potentially be useful if there were info on each film about what made it counterculture, etc, but not worth trying to move it in that direction. Capmango 21:46, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I believe that many of these films are notable counterculture films, especially those from the late 1960s and early 1970s. Many of these films are notable in this quality and could be sourced with some work. This topic is dreadfully under-represented (read: missing) in the Counterculture of the 1960s article and needs a section there. Films like Easy Rider and Five Easy Pieces are still studied today for their impact on the culture of their time and their representation of the 1960s counterculture. If you look at the discussion, you will see that it was created as a list for 1960s counterculture films, but due to poor naming, it turned into a general list for anything deemed countercultural. It needs focus and possible renaming. - Zepheus <ゼィフィアス> 22:28, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film and TV-related deletions. -- John Vandenberg 01:33, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletions. -- John Vandenberg 01:33, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reply Well, the proof has to be in the pudding. You might believe that these films can be reliably verified as having "counterculture status", but the fact is that despite multiple requests for that verification over a period of months and a previous afd no such sources have been provided. Secondly, we are not saying here that the general subject of counterculture films isn't a valid one for an article. Just that a comprehensive objective list of counterculture films probably isn't valid. It's one thing to provide Easy Rider as an example of a counterculture film in the article Counterculture, but it's another thing to try and construct from scratch a list of all films that might be considered counterculture films by various people. Dugwiki 16:15, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep For the same reason Zepheus mentioned. All the more I found this article to be very interesting and would be disapointed not finding it. Without this list I wouldn't know in what genre to place a certain movie. 19:44, 9 June 2007 (GMT, Bangkok) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.155.1.253 (talk • contribs)

And to reply, we're not saying the list isn't "interesting". The complaint is that it's apparently not verifiable or objective and almost exclusively consists of original research. Just because an article is interesting reading doesn't mean it should be kept. Dugwiki 16:18, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete without prejudice for well sourced recreation, I don't have a problem with this list just with how there are no sources. I don't think a source needs to use exactly "counterculture" but something that suggests a similar idea. If this were sourced like "films considered greatest..." list then it could be fine. gren グレン 18:51, 10 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete counter whose culture? POV is inherent in the selection. Carlossuarez46 21:01, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.