The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Vampire Academy#Main characters. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:52, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

List of Vampire Academy characters (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Another long list of in-universe, unsourced cruft. Either delete it or cut it down and merge. Just Another Cringy Username (talk) 22:48, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Science fiction and fantasy, Television, and Lists. Just Another Cringy Username (talk) 22:48, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment I don't see that the nominator has tried to trim, merge, or redirect, all of which are ATDs. As such, there's really nothing to do here that has proven to be un-fixable by regular editing. It's arguable that this should be closed per SK#1, since "List of X characters" where X is a clearly notable fictional franchise obviously has a redirect target. Jclemens (talk) 23:14, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  The reason is simple: I've been down this road before. I've tried to do the ATD's for other franchises with character listicles, only to have my efforts reverted by overzealous inclusionists who can't bear to see a single word of their lovingly detailed summaries altered. AfD has proven to be the only way to get this work done w/ proper community involvement. Just Another Cringy Username (talk) 23:37, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Speedy Keep on the basis of nominator admitting zero effort to resolve perceived difficulties without resorting to deletion. Jclemens (talk) 23:52, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  And when I do make the effort, people scream at me for "acting unilaterally" and "not seeking consensus," so what am I supposed to do exactly? Just Another Cringy Username (talk) 05:17, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If an edit you make is reverted (and this includes you making a redirect or requesting a speedy deletion or prod), you may find it better to go to the talk page and start a discussion to try to get consensus for what you are doing. See WP:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle. Or, of course, you could raise the matter in advance on the talk page if you anticipate opposition. Thincat (talk) 15:04, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per Jclemens. Don't see a reason for deletion. Agletarang (talk) 16:35, 31 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• @Jclemens also mentioned the main Vampire Academy article as a redirect target. Since that article already has a character list, any thoughts on redirecting this article over there? Just Another Cringy Username (talk) 17:26, 1 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete or redirect to the main article. Vampire Academy#Main characters and Bloodlines (book series)#Characters seem to provide sufficient overview of the main characters relative to the weight required to understand the context of the articles. There are no sources showing the grouping establishes notability to meet GNG or LISTN. This is not a valid offshoot article because it has not been shown that the main articles are overburdened by necessary contextual plot information. Most of what is here is irrelevant for the purposes of a general encyclopedia, so it can be tossed without any issue. ATD concerns seem moot when there is no relevant sourced content to salvage. TTN (talk) 12:48, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. TTN (talk) 14:06, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect. As written, it's pure plot summary fancruft. It's time to start cleaning that part of the stable too. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 19:18, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect As WP:ATD. Pure plotcruft and FANDOM material that is unsuitable as an article unless RS are added as well. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 14:56, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I don't see consensus here but the Keep votes aren't grounded in policy-based reasons and seem like a reaction to the suggestion of deletion. Any more support for redirecting this article to Vampire Academy?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:56, 6 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect, since there is an obvious appropriate place to redirect to. De Guerre (talk) 08:13, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Vampire Academy#Main characters - While character lists can be valid spinout articles on a piece of fiction, that is not an automatic guarantee that there should be one. In this case, a completely unsourced list of overly detailed plot information is not an appropriate spinout, and should be Redirected back to the main article. Rorshacma (talk) 15:54, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect as this is not a valid spinout, as it is missing WP:NOTABILITY in the form of WP:SIGCOV in reliable independent sources. Jontesta (talk) 04:38, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment List of X characters derive notability from the fictional franchise; Rorscacma is correct. However, the second part of the argument presumes that there are no sources for any of the characters and that no clean-up could fix it. In fact, there is simply no evidence either has been attempted. Jclemens (talk) 07:46, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  There's more to it than just notability. Per WP:WAF, fictional subjects should be covered in terms of their real-world cultural impact and RS must be found w/ an eye towards showcasing same. This is what separates WP from the countless fan wikis which proliferate online.

  Along that same line, why is everyone is so quick to point out all the ways they think an article could be improved, but no one actually does it? I swear, AfD causes WP:BEBOLD to go right out the window. Just Another Cringy Username (talk) 22:54, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect As per Piotr. MrsSnoozyTurtle 10:55, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.