The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus - default to keep. — Sebastian 02:37, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Kenny Muhammad (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)

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Meets none of the criteria listed at WP:MUSICBIOAlso note that 2 of the 3 sources mentioned are from an online discussion forum. Accipio Mitis Frux (talk) 19:36, 17 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete, he does have some google news hits but I can't find any in-depth coverage from reliable sources. Polarpanda (talk) 20:10, 17 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. —J04n(talk page) 00:40, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep If you search the full google news archive, there are 83 hits. Book search finds relevant hits in Billboard magazine and The New Yorker. Also hosted a television awards show in 2006 and was nominated for a Clio award in 1997.[1] 76.253.140.190 (talk) 13:44, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• OK keep then thanks to the google news archive hits, none of them look very in-depth but there's a lot of them and they are enthusiastic. Polarpanda (talk) 15:03, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, if you want this article to justify a spot on Wikipedia you must demonstrate that this artist fulfills the requirements listed at WP:MUSICBIOYou've mentioned some google hits, but all you have technically cited is a bio at Allmusic.

Sources must be independent from the musician. Bios at Allmusic are generally written either by the artist's manager or the artist himself. Please cite the exact articles which demonstrate your claim. Accipio Mitis Frux (talk) 16:00, 18 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete, here's why:

I've taken the time to look into the justifications for inclusion mentioned here. He is definitely not listed as a host of the 2006 Hip Hop Honors show. In fact none of his online bios even claim this, they simply say he was "invited to host," for whatever that means. As for the Clio awards, I also could not find anything confirming this. However, a search of the 1997 Clio archive yields 667 winners in the television/cinema category alone. If was indeed nominated, he was probably one of several thousand.

What clued me in to consider nominating this article for deletion is because the sources listed for this artist were from an online forum. I also found it somewhat bizarre that the only independent section was from a 2004 benefit concert apparently held to raise legal funds for an arrest. I did find the two billboard hits, but he is given only a sentence or two for performing with the articles' subject. "Works comprising merely trivial coverage" is listed on the WP:MUSICBIO page as something that does not fulfill the notability guidelines.

I am not denying that this artist has had a degree of national exposure. However, he does not appear to justify inclusion under the Wikipedia guidelines. Accipio Mitis Frux (talk) 01:43, 22 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Tim Song (talk) 06:00, 24 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7]. The New York Times called him "one of the world’s premier beatboxers". It is possible to expand the article with information from reliable sources. Kenny is known even in my country (Czech Republic), I've found some coverage also in my native language. This could be useful for our readers. --Vejvančický (talk) 09:34, 24 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. —Vejvančický (talk) 10:00, 24 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Every single one of those articles is minor piece for the sake of promotion. If this guy is such a big shot, where's the discography? Where are the tour dates? I kind of have an issue with an artist having a wiki page with no discography, but maybe that's just me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.192.176.231 (talk) 18:51, 24 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Hmmm, I consider the links to The New York Times, The Washington Post and New York City’s First Muslim Arts Festival as reliable and independent, not promotional. The link to NME is partially based on Wiki article, but rest of above mentioned links provide a good material for the expansion of our article. I'm trying to avoid the promo stuff, this is not my first vote at AfD. --Vejvančický (talk) 10:13, 25 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I'm sorry but I still stand by my original post to delete. Under the Wikipedia guidelines for inclusion, the artist must be "the subject of multiple non-trivial published works." He is not the subject of the Times article nor the Washington Post article (nor for the Billboard blurbs either, for that matter). As for the "Muslim Arts Festival," that is in fact a promotion piece and fits into this category of what does not qualify for wikipedia inclusion:

• • Any reprints of press releases, other publications where the musician or ensemble talks about themselves, and all advertising that mentions the musician or ensemble, including manufacturers' advertising.

I appreciate that you are trying to avoid the promotional stuff, but unfortunately that is all this artist has. If he's really "one of the world's premier beatboxers," he should be able to get a record deal, tour, and PR person that will take care of all of this. It just doesn't add up. Accipio Mitis Frux (talk) 14:38, 25 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. There's enough significant coverage in the article and linked to above, and the amount of passing coverage bolsters his notability. Someone the NYT calls "one of the world's premier beatboxers" should be covered. Fences&Windows 21:27, 28 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete I'm glad you have given us your opinion, but you've got to demonstrate that he fulfills the requirements of WP:MUSICBIO. I see you stick to Wikipedia standards for other edits. The NYT gives plenty of coverage to whatever music comes across their path. A journalist saying that someone is "one of the world's premier beatboxers" doesn't mean it is remotely true. My point is that if that is truly the case, the proof is in the pudding. "Passing coverage" doesn't really demonstrate this. Accipio Mitis Frux (talk) 01:44, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I can support keeping the article for whatever reason I like, thanks. WP:GNG is passed as far as I'm concerned. The NYT is a generally reliable source, not prone to hyperbole. I struck your "delete", you're the nominator so there's no need for you to !vote. Fences&Windows 01:32, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.