The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Wizardman 17:57, 27 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Kazuhiro Ito

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Delete. Subject is a student. He has not appeared in a major role with any notable professional opera companies. The awards that he has won are not notable. He may well acheive notability in the future by appearing as a soloist with notable Japanese opera companies such as the New National Theatre, Tokyo, the Nikikai or the Fujiwara but this evidently hasn't happened yet. His only claim to fame is apparently his own (rather sophisticated) web site. Kleinzach (talk) 13:01, 20 March 2008 (UTC) amended --Kleinzach (talk) 14:26, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Kazuhiro Ito is not notable. Masterpiece2000 (talk) 13:14, 20 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Question So how come he is listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Opera/to_do_full_list#Articles_needing_Expert_Attention? And is he really still a student? The article says: "… following his graduation …" Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:32, 20 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is a time lag between the listing on Wikipedia:WikiProject_Opera/to_do_full_list#Articles_needing_Expert_Attention and this afd, however it may be a mistake by the bot because I can't see that there has ever been an 'expert attention needed' tag put on this article. Regarding being a student the text says: "he has been working and studying in Milan, Italy " . (I should add that I put a notability tag on this earlier but it was simply removed without any improvement made to the article.) -- Kleinzach (talk) 13:50, 20 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. —Quasirandom (talk) 15:35, 20 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as non-notable. An article could be written when or if he becomes a notable professional singer. --DAJF (talk) 05:30, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - having performed in Germany, Italy, and Japan, it's likely he already meets WP:MUSIC #4 for performers. I don't know enough about opera in general, or baritones specifically, to make any informed judgement though. Neier (talk) 11:33, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Where does it say he performed in Germany and Italy? I can't see any reference to this. -- Kleinzach (talk) 12:22, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

His web page. Neier (talk) 14:24, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Neier, by "WP:MUSIC #4 for performers", do you mean: "Has received non-trivial coverage in a reliable source of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country."? If so, I don't think this is the case here. He's had some isolated performances in not particularly distinguished roles/venues, some of which may not have even been 'professional', i.e., he wasn't paid for them. (See my comment below) And so far there's zero coverage, let alone non-trivial coverage. Voceditenore (talk) 13:55, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that is what I was referring to. There is a Japanese wikipedia article that I added the transwiki link to. Generally, since they're much tighter about who gets articles, that's enough to push me over to the side of keep; but, the article is even shorter than ours; and since Google turns up very little in Japanese, nothing in Italian, and mostly articles about a ?kickboxer? with the same name in German pages, I'm staying on the fence here. Neier (talk) 14:24, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I found his old web site which had more info on it than the new one linked in the article. It's all in Japanese. I ran his schedules through the Google translator with hilarious but serviceable results: [1], [2]. A lot of the stuff was student performances, concerts in hospitals etc. He seems to have sung in a couple of churches in Germany, one a Mass by Lorenzo Perosi. The Italian outings were summer 'opera evenings' in very small towns, and a concert for the folks in Verdi's Casa di Riposo (rest home for retired singers) in Milan. The typical stuff that fledgling performers do. On Opera Japonica he's listed as performing with a couple of noted companies in 2001, albeit in very small roles. Fujiwara Opera in Macbeth as The Herald and Nihon Opera Kyokai (a section of the Japan Opera Foundation) in Kusabira as "yamabushi" (haven't got a clue what that means). Could someone run his Japanese name through Google? More coverage might come up to corroborate his claims. There's certainly nothing on Google in any European languages. Voceditenore (talk) 13:38, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've just looked at his Japanese pages and you are right there is more information (I read Japanese albeit very slowly), but I can't find any notable engagements - let alone any media reports on them. Re 'corroborating his claims', I don't think he is a fake. Merely that he is so far non-notable.

There are probably 40 or 50 'professional' opera singers in Tokyo who regularly appear for the main companies there. Almost all these singers have to supplement their income teaching so in reality they are only semi-professional. (None of them as far as I know have pages on WP.) Anyway the point is that I can see no evidence that Ito is up to that level yet - and even if he were it's an open question whether he would meet our criteria here. -- Kleinzach (talk) 14:22, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, I don't think he's a fake either. By "corroborating", I meant corroborating the fact that he or his performances were sufficiently notable for someone else to have written about them in a non-trivial way. Certainly the performances in Italy wouldn't qualify as "professional". They were put on by a music school in Erba (Accademia Europea di Musica). My personal view is that he isn't really notable enough for an article. At the moment, I'd say delete, although I'd change my mind if something earth-shattering comes up. Voceditenore (talk) 14:50, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Weak delete almost all musicians even at the very highest level take pupils, I dont think that rules him out. Guglielmo & Almavira & :Gianni Schicchi are major roles. But I cannot tell whether the companies where he performed them are significant. I note the few recent performances, the absence of scheduled performances, and the absence of reviews--all of which I take to imply that the early performances were not at the highest professional level, and he is now trying to attain that. DGG (talk) 17:11, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.