The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:11, 21 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Intermediate cartridges

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There are references, but none for this term. It's unsourced because it's original research. It's a term without any formal definition, so it'll never pass muster. I tried to find a decent source so we could include it in Cartridge (firearms) but no one defines this. AliveFreeHappy (talk) 04:14, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

speedy keep and probably rename to singular form (intermediate cartridge is now a redirect]. Sadly enough, intermediate cartridges became the mainstay of post-WW2 armies, and there's a wealth of printed sources on the subject (#1 is a wikipedia clone, trash it and keep the rest like the Manual of Forensic Emergency Medicine). You might also check sourcing from Assault rifle, which is defined (among other things) as employing intermediate cartridges. East of Borschov 05:04, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- two side notes. First, absense of a formal universal definition alone is not a compelling reason to delete. A compact car, just like intermediate cartridge, may have many different definitions, so what? the thing exists. Second (and related) there seems to be a certain cultural difference in assessing the significance of the term. The scope and usage varies. Germans use the term (als Mittelpatrone), but it does not seem to be as well recognized in German as its counterpart (промежуточный патрон) is recognized in Russian (perhaps because there are no "lesser-than-intermediate" rounds like 5.7x28mm). In the end, I suppose, it's a matter of I know it when I see it. The 5.45x39mm and 5.56x45mm NATO and Co. are quite distinct from both rifle and pistol rounds to count as a separate class. East of Borschov 05:49, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. The subject of the article is too vague do be defined and context driven. An intermediate dangerous game cartridge, an intermediate assault rifle cartridge, an intermediate deer cartridge, Remington's intermediate line of RUM cartridges ( 1 step down from full, the low is 2 steps down), an intermediate varmint cartridge etc or to some like me a medium bore (.32 - .39 caliber) rifle. The one known case where it is used in marketing is by Remington in their power level ammunition for the RUM line of cartridge and this article has nothing to do with it, an if it did it should not stand on its own but as a part of an article whether about Remington or Remington ammunition. If the context is to be kept it can be merged into an article on rifle cartridges, or assault rifles. DeusImperator (talk) 11:59, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

a re-written merge into the assault rifle page should provide the context necessary. On its own it is too vague. I can do that sometime this evening and the article can be deleted. Or something on military rile cartridgesDeusImperator (talk) 12:24, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

For the moment Keep is my opinion. I am fairly sure that Hogg covers, and defines, intermediate cartridges but I do not have the book to hand at the moment. Should I prove wrong I will adjust my opinion accordingly. GraemeLeggett (talk) 12:29, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 19:18, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Firearms-related deletion discussions. —AliveFreeHappy (talk) 21:03, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or Transwiki to Wiktionary (if they want it). To trim down the OR and opinion would leave it with a mere definition, which would still have to be somewhat ambiguous anyway. If no sources appear, it won't really be right for Wikipedia. I'd also be OK with just redirecting it to Cartridge (firearms). bahamut0013^words _deeds 23:42, 5 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and possibly rename to Intermediate power cartridge. Plenty of Google Book hits for both terms [1][2]. The term "Intermediate power cartridge" is found in both The New Encyclopedia Britannica [3] and in SIPRI report on anti-personnel weapons [4]. MKFI (talk) 10:57, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

note the Britannica link above uses the term, but does not define it. AliveFreeHappy (talk) 19:08, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 05:46, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep; the encyclopedia mention does it for me. It may not be defined, but perhaps that is because the encyclopedia writers thought it was so notable that they assumed the reader would know what it was. Kansan (talk) 16:05, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.