The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. MuZemike 20:55, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Initiation (Theosophy) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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This article is an unnecessary content fork of Alice A. Bailey of a concept created by her and entirely reliant on her book "Initiation, Human and Solar". The same concept is already discussed on her lengthy and extensive biographical page (which manages to repeat many of her anti-Jewish comments) so a deletion is needed rather than a merge. If this page were considered necessary and encyclopaedic then we would leave the door open to creating separate pages for all the other special terms and concepts she published during her lifetime that she claimed were "telepathically dictated to her". I note that the creator of this page has created other content and point of view forks around the topic of Theosophy. Ash (talk) 12:48, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete, weakly. IIRC, the Theosophical Society did not offer formal initiations, and this would appear to be matter better handled at ascended master or similar concepts; these aren't initiations in a conventional sense, but rather a claimed ladder of spiritual development in a hereafter. FWIW, Bailey's racial opinions are not really relevant to this discussion. And ideas dictated by telepathy have an equal chance of becoming notable as any other ideas. - Smerdis of Tlön (talk) 15:41, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I've struck the anti-Jewish comment from the nomination to avoid confusion, having raised it now on the Bailey talk page. I agree with your comment about notability; I put quotes around "telepathically dictated to her" in the nomination because it was a quote from the article rather than a sarcastic dismissal.—Ash (talk) 15:56, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Self-citations are ok for determining the relevance of the topic to the Bailey article, but do not establish notability. - 2/0 (cont.) 22:20, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep It is an important Theosophical philosophical concept and useful to someone who wants to do research about the Theosophy. Keraunos (talk) 05:55, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just as the article on reincarnation is necessary to explain Hinduism and Buddhism (and Theosophy), so this article is necessary to explain Theosophy. Keraunos (talk) 13:02, 19 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • As I added to the article, the concept was also extensively covered by C.W. Leadbeater, so it does not have to do with Alice A. Bailey only. Keraunos (talk) 09:34, 20 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

(note) Reincarnation is a commonly used concept, notable outside of Buddhism or Hinduism and not written to "explain" those religions. The same can not be said for Initiation (theosophy) and that is why it is a clear content fork as per the nomination; your argument appears invalid.—Ash (talk) 04:47, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:12, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Religion-related deletion discussions. -- Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:13, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete All but one sources are primary sources. Tend to agree with nominator that metaphysical concepts specific to notable spiritual figures are not necessarily notable themselves. If there is notable material in the article it should go into the Alice A. Bailey article. Simonm223 (talk) 20:57, 23 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The concept of Initiation is important because it presents a Western view of reincarnation as a dynamic process of spiritual evolution rather than the Eastern concept of reincarnation as an eternal return. Keraunos (talk) 06:44, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.