The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was my head hurts. I've closed several difficult AfDs, some much larger and more contentious than this one, and I pride myself on finding the proper line of reasoning and not resorting to counting votes. However, this one is one of the more difficult I've closed because, as a possibly emerging field of study, the references and mentions appear to be on the cusp of satisfying the requirements for an article. The comment here that best describes my conclusion of the arguments happens to be the last comment in the discussion from Barte, with one important change: Merge essence into business process management article at least until the category is actually established. The potential problem with this is that the BPM article is not particularly robust. Including any signifant portion of the HIM article will overwhelm the content of the BPM article, which would create a skewed impression of the acceptance of HIM relative to traditional BPM.

So my decision is to merge the essence of the human interaction management article to business process management and redirect the HIM article to BPM. The HIM portion of the BPM article should represent no more than approximately 20% of the BPM article. IF the BPM article is expanded, then the section on HIM may expanded comparably. I've replaced the HIM article with the redirect—the material needed for merging can be found in the history. —Doug Bell talk 11:21, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Human interaction management

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This article serves only as an advert for the book being sold by the author of the article. This is a non-notable neologism, I can't find any mention of it in reliable, independent, non-self-published sources. Anyway, anything that is notable in this article is covered in "Human Resources Management". Prod removed by author, who I suspect of using socks (look at the page history). Keywords: SPAM, COI, NN yandman 10:21, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Looking through the history, before the author of the book came into play, the article seemed more acceptable, although still not very notable. This is the last "old" version. If anyone feels the article doesn't deserve deletion, do they feel it should be reverted to that state? yandman 10:25, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Warning: There are more socks here than in my entire clothes draw. yandman 11:25, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not so - see below for explanation of level of interest Keith.harrison-broninski 09:23, 12 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
We're not here to "stimulate discussion". We will talk about this technique you "and many others do believe will emerge", when it emerges. yandman 14:09, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
To be short and to the point: yes. yandman 13:31, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Way to many Single purpose accounts here, either sock puppets or meat puppets. I still find it amazing people that want articles kept actually think making SPAs actually will change the outcome. If anything, it weights against you. --Brian (How am I doing?) 22:30, 9 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment hmmm... seems Brian works for Mocrosoft ... a Microsoft sock puppet, or Microsoft meat puppet? Surely Microsoft won't be happy if a new category of software steps on their toes? Having just become aware of HIMS, yes, indeed I'm a first-time contributor to Wikipedia. Guilty as charged! If only I was an nth time contributor, then and only then would I speak the truth (?) So I guess that, therefore, it weighs agains me, I'm disqualified. If you are a "First timer" as suggested by this Microsoft employee, I guess we should keep out mouths shut, and crawl under a rock. Yes, Brian, there are too many SPAs here, so delete away.


Further, some of you seem to have the wrong impression of me personally. Check out my blog! I write a column for ebizq.net, IT Directions, aimed at exposing industry hype: "Keith Harrison-Broninski cuts through the hype in his hands-on guide to where enterprise technology is really going." If any of you will be at Javapolis this week, I am speaking on Friday, am around from Tue night onwards, and am happy to chat anytime.

In general, the excitement around HIM may have sprung up quickly, but it is not a neologism. Rather, HIM is a necessary label for a well-defined and widely-accepted synthesis of management principles and patterns. To indicate the importance accorded to it, a short list of material on HIM from well-respected IT and management sources is now available on the HIM page.

Given this sort of interest in HIM from academia, analysts, and industry, what is needed now is an independent source of information about it - i.e., wikipedia. I may have written the original book, and the first versions of the wikipedia article, but called from the start for others to pick up where I left off with HIM. And indeed there are now many other books, PhD projects, etc focused on HIM. The term has become common management/business/IT currency, but save for wikipedia, has no online definition in the public domain.

HIM practices benefit society - better collaboration cures many ills. So their definition needs a public domain home. Hence the wikipedia article, which to me seems the natural location. Isn't this kind of community knowledge-sharing what wikipedia is all about? Keith Harrison-Broninski

I read Keith H-B's work on H.I.M. and felt that it pulls together a string of otherwise independent elements into a single holistic viewpoint that uniquely illustrates the difficulty with current BPM and path-finds for a better way forward. The potential of H.I.M. is enormous and should be explored in order to potentially revolutionise the internet...again. I believe that the deletion of this article would be a shameful stopping of a massive potential and that it serves a very useful place on Wikipedia. I strongly feel that it should not be deleted. Bryan Sergeant

STRONG DO NOT DELETE I'm a strong advocate for keeping this page for the following reasons:

Now, some general comments. I have been struggling with mechanistic approaches to and notations for business process modelling and management for some time now so I want to argue that the topic is extremely valuable. My first inkling that there was an alternative approach came when I read Martyn Ould's book, Business Process Management: A Rigorous Approach. He points out, as does Harrison-Broninski, that human driven processes are dynamic, self modifying and impossible to depict using rigid mechanistic process management tools and techniques. I followed up by reading Harrison-Broninski's book and it, combined with other reading and practice, has opened up a wealth of possibilities as far as meaningful process management approaches and an opportunity to address the old business-IT divide in very exciting ways. By the way, under no circumstances should this topic be redirected to Human Resource Management! That is not what it is about.

If you don't like neologism, that's too bad! There are innumerable ways to categorise and classify the things we do. If it distinguishes one topic from related ones in a meaningful way then it should be encouraged as a good thing, not removed because of some blinkered and simple-minded application of an individual principle. That's what the wikipedia is trying to overcome, isn't it?

Lastly, regarding some of the arguments in favour of deletion. Although I hesitate to dignify them with the term argument. Instead they contain unsubstantiated slurs and accusations and are very disappointing to see in this environment. I had to have a chuckle when I saw "astroturfing and neologism" in the same sentence but on the whole I've been very disenchanted with the vitriol and meaningless drivel from many of the people advocating deletion. If you want to look me up next time you're in Canberra you can, over the beverage of your choice, verify for yourself that I am no sock puppet (another neologism from the anti-neologism movement?).

--Andrew Warner 02:07, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The article's there. yandman 08:00, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, (vandalism aside) such cases are notoriously hard to distinguish from good-faith contributors writing their first article or from anonymous users who finally decide to log in. If someone does point out your light contribution history, please take it in the spirit it was intended - a fact to be weighed by the closing admin, not an attack on the person. Because of our past problems, opinions offered by new or anonymous users are often met with suspicion and may be discounted during the closing process. This decision is made at the discretion of the closing admin after considering the contribution history and pattern of comments. In practice, civil comments and logical arguments are often given the benefit of doubt while hostile comments are presumed to be bad-faith. Please note that verifiable facts and evidence are welcome from anybody and will be considered during the closing process. --Brian (How am I doing?) 15:56, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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