The result was no consensus. Numerically, there are more editors arguing to Keep this article but those advocating Deletion have, I believe, done their due diligence reviewing sources that were available to view and I don't want to discount their opinions. And those arguing Keep are relying on off-line sources that not all editors took the time to assess or that weren't always available for review.
For those editors who don't believe the subject warrants a standalone article and bring this article back to AFD in the future, I'd follow this nominator's recommendation and suggest a Merge or Redirect rather than a straight Deletion as this character clearly has editors willing to go to great lengths to ensure their continued presence on the project on some level. Liz Read! Talk! 23:09, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
"a fictional character from the British Channel 4 soap opera Hollyoaks". Very poorly referenced plot summary that fails WP:GNG. No reception, just said plot summary in 'storylines' seciton, then a few remarks by actors from the show about that character in 'development' section that mostly deal not with the character but with relationships between actors in the show. Current sources are two media articles that mention the character in passing (failing WP:SIGCOV) and my BEFORE yielded nothing better. Per WP:SOFTDELETE, we can consider redirecting to the List of Hollyoaks characters. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:36, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Those advocating Keep need to demonstrate SIGCOV, not mere passing mentions.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:41, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
addresses the topic directly and in detail, and no sources listed here so far address the character directly and in detail. WP:FICT also says
Articles on fiction elements are expected to cover more about "real-world" aspects of the element, such as its development and reception, than "in-universe" details.Spinixster (chat!) 01:33, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: One more try…
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 10:24, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. A lot of work has been done on this article since its nomination. A source analysis of old and new sources would be welcome.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:31, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
Source assessment table:
| ||||
Source | Independent? | Reliable? | Significant coverage? | Count source toward GNG? |
---|---|---|---|---|
https://web.archive.org/web/20031003020329/http://www.hollyoaks.com/backstage.asp?bs=3&aID=7 | The source is the show's web site | Maybe? | Very brief blurb about the actress; does not discuss Helen. | ✘ No |
https://web.archive.org/web/20031002154533/http://www.hollyoaks.com/backstage.asp?bs=2&cID=7 | The source is the show's web site | Maybe? | Brief database entry. | ✘ No |
https://web.archive.org/web/20021227140411/http://www.hollyoaks.com:80/microsites/default.asp?site=mrc/steamteam | The source seems to be usurped? It's an ad for a dry cleaner. | If there is a connection to the show or character I'm not seeing it. | Unrelated to subject. | ✘ No |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Cunningham#refEvans | Source is Wikipedia | A circular link to the same Wikipedia article | No content. | ✘ No |
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/SOAP+MUMS%3b+How+screen+mothers+and+daughters+really+get+on+after...-a083638715 | Source is Sunday Mail (Glasgow) | ? I cannot find discussion of the reliability of the Sunday Mail. | Article is mainly about the actors, one passing mention of Helen. | ✘ No |
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/1%2c000+and+as+saucy+as+ever%3b+Nick+Foley+on+Hollyoaks'+landmark...-a0100432202 | Source is Daily Post (Liverpool). | ? I cannot find discussion of the reliability of the Daily Post. | Short article about an unrelated actor; one passing mention of Helen. | ✘ No |
https://web.archive.org/web/20030415215840/http://www.hollyoaks.com/article.asp?a=02/04/03 | Source is the show's web site. | Maybe? | Article is about a different character; does not mention Helen by name but there's a single passing allusion to her. | ✘ No |
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/the+Insider%3A+Killed+off+in+fine+style-a0114764046 | Source is the Liverpool Echo. | ? I cannot find discussion of the reliability of the Liverpool Echo. | Very short article; does not mention Helen. | ✘ No |
https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/milo-entwistle-reveals-killed-hollyoaks-11261033 | Source is the Daily Mirror. | ~ WP:RSP says no consensus on reliablitly of the Daily Mirror. | Article is about a person who wrote a plot line of the show; passing mentions of Helen. | ✘ No |
https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/soaps/hollyoaks/hollyoaks-twist-milos-big-secret-revealed-he-killed-the-cunninghams-nathan-morris-reacts/ | Source is the Radio Times | ? I cannot find discussion of the reliability of the Radio Times | Article is about the same writer and plot line as the Daily Mirror source; passing mentions of Helen. | ✘ No |
https://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/hollyoaks/a839391/hollyoaks-spoilers-nathan-morris-milo-entwistle-road-crash/ | Source is Digital Spy. | WP:RSP says Digital Spy is reliable for entertainment. | Article is again about the same writer and plot line as the Daily Mirror source; passing mentions of Helen. | ✘ No |
https://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/hollyoaks/a30984580/hollyoaks-pays-tribute-gordon-helen-cunningham/ | Source is Digital Spy. | WP:RSP says Digital Spy is reliable for entertainment. | ~ Short article about a tribute to Helen. | ~ Partial |
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Get+to+C+soap's+only+ghost.-a0113685013 | Source is Western Mail (Cardiff) | ? I cannot find discussion of the reliability of the Western Mail | Article is about a different character; one passing mention of Helen. | ✘ No |
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using ((source assess table)). |
Not entirely accurate. This one is a book source, not Wikipedia itself. Seems like the so called usurped source has an issue. If you click "About us" on the link it reveals the content about Helen. It was the main content when I cited the source. The sources about the actress are relevant to the character. The character is not a real person, facts about Kathryn George's portrayal are relevant. The source about George in which Helen is not mentioned is just used to state she joined the show in 1997. It was never used for anything else, but to aid the general readers understanding. The sources are being analysed without the context they are used in the article. There are also offline sources which I have been good enough to upload. All I have done is try to improve the article by adding real world information and explaining the fiction better than the plot summary fancruft that was originally served up. There are 31 citations used but only the lowest value are singled out. What about the full page interviews with cast I uploaded? They add some value here. I guess the issue is this subject is boring and low brow no matter how much you try and improve it.Rain the 1 02:22, 14 October 2023 (UTC)