The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:59, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Harvard Design Magazine (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:GNG and has a severe lack of independent coverage needed to establish notability. Let'srun (talk) 20:43, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per nom. No references to indicate notability. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NPERIODICAL. --My Pants Metal (talk) 17:00, 8 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete and potentially add a sentence or so if appropriate into Harvard Graduate School of Design but substantially trim down useless cruft Graywalls (talk). Changing ! vote as substantial public relations editing has been detected in article space. 23:44, 9 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 10:52, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 14:45, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Academic journals-related deletion discussions. A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 16:52, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• I left a message at Talk:Harvard Graduate School of Design#Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Harvard Design Magazine asking for comments at this AfD and noting the possibility that the magazine article might best be merged into the grad school article.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 17:08, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• This should also be judged against WP:NJOURNALS (an essay but widely used). Perhaps someone who follows WikiProject Deletion sorting/Academic journals and understands journals will weigh in here. My own search finds lot of articles out there that reference this magazine.

I'll also note that from another AfD, I've learned design people love to write about each other in countless reliable sources. (None are magazines you'll see at a hardware store or a Wal-Mart.)

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 17:20, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• A JSTOR search turns up 23 books or journals that cite this magazine. There are none about the magazine.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 17:29, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. A Google Scholar search shows many articles in this publication that are each cited dozens of times. I got as far as the 30th page of results (that's 300 articles cited) and stopped -- there were still more search result pages to go.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 17:34, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NJOURNAL is only an essay and given that as far as I can tell, its not linked from notability guideline pages, so I don't believe it's even a widely vetted essay. WP:NBOOK SNG specifically says magazines are excluded. So I believe magazine falls into NCORP or GNG. I am not sure how to interpret the citation quantity result. I remember someone doing a comparative analysis against books/journals of similar types and see if it was extraordinary. WP:GOOGLEHITS isn't really an argument. That essay is linked from several Wikipedia guidelines and policies. Graywalls (talk) 22:57, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Massachusetts-related deletion discussions. Graywalls (talk) 23:05, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep This journal is indexed in Scopus and MIAR.^[1] Hence, it meets WP:NJOURNALS guidelines. However, it can definitely use some cleanup. Nanosci (talk) 19:40, 13 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Visual arts-related deletion discussions. A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 22:06, 13 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Natg 19 (talk) 01:00, 14 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, its Index inclusions show that it is both notable and well known. Established in the late 20th century, the magazine, from a major college, has both history and continuous publication continuity. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:44, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Horrible article needing a ton of work, but indexing in Scopus (from 2009 to 2019, from 2021 to 2022) meets WP:NJournals. --Randykitty (talk) 12:09, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Between the inclusion in selective indices and coverage of its offshoots (e.g., [1][2][3]), I think there's enough to justify a page. Regarding the conversation above, Google Scholar is a search engine specialized for finding academic papers (though its standards for what to include are somewhat loose). GS showing that a person or a publication is widely cited will generally be more informative than an ordinary Google search returning a lot of hits, which is pretty much meaningless. XOR'easter (talk) 22:55, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.