The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was as follows:

Keep Paradise Cracked and Alfa: Antiterror although there may be a renomination later. During the discussion the nomination withdrew his support for deletion of the two games, and that leaves two delete votes, one citing that the games are "lacking in depth coverage" without further analysis and a "per nom", later the nom as we saw, has withdrawn the nomination statement. My role here is to determine whether there is a consensus for deletion (there is not) or if there is any policy violation in the article that mandates deletion (given that some possible sources have been proposed in this discussion, the problems may be surmountable). As such, I find that any consensus that might be here is closer to keeping than it is to deleting.
No consensus on GFI Russia and Game Factory Interactive. Both Odie5533 and Hellknowz have both advocated merging these together, although Alex Spade has objected to that. I am at this point unable to assess the pros and cons of merging them, so I leave that up to regular editorial practices. If someone thinks they can be merged neatly, they may be bold and do so.

The debate is slightly confusing because there is a bundle of nominations here, and in hindsight the bundling may not have been the best idea. (But this is very much in hindsight, where we have the added benefit of seeing how the debate actually developed.)

I note that the sourcing currently cited in the articles is still imperfect in some of the areas that provoked this AFD, for example many of the sources are not independent of the subject and others are iffy on reliability. Sjakkalle (Check!) 11:05, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Game Factory Interactive

[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Tagged for notability since Feb 2009. Cursory search did not turn up any RS. There may possibly be some Russian language sources, hence bringing it here. Also nominating its subsidiary articles. Spinning Spark 12:41, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There are GFI, GFI Russia, ALFA, Paradise (in English) and further by links.
Paradise and ALFA (in Russian) in Igromania magazine. Alex Spade (talk) 17:14, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Is there any reason to suppose that any of those are WP:RS? Moby Games is a wiki and appears to allow anyone to edit. There is no evidence of any editorial review process: no chief editor, no editorial board, no staff jounalists, no named journalist on article bylines. The Russian site seems to be much the same, although I do not read Russian, this page seems to be inviting submission of articles. All the links you provided are to one of those two sites. Spinning Spark 20:51, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, MG is allowing outside editing, but it gives you links to other sources. You can analyze them.
Igromania is one of lead Russian video game magazine (printed, not just electronic). It has chief editor, editorial board and staff. But it (and most of other journals/magazines/newspapers) invites free-lancers as well.
ru:Cnews.ru - is one of lead Russian electronic news site about computers, IT and high-techs. Mist-land (lattely GFI Russia) on Cnews.ru: [1], [2], [3]; GFI (parent company) on Cnews.ru: [4], [5]. Alex Spade (talk) 09:50, 20 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Just because MG links to reliable sources in no way makes MG a reliable source. In any case I am not seeing those links and where they should be, if really reliable, is in the articles. Igromania and Cnews, though, sound more convincing. I'll shut up now and see what others think. Spinning Spark 18:39, 20 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yup, those links don't make MG a reliable source. Those links may demonstrate notability in themselves. I just don't want to copy-paste them.
For examples, ru:Game.EXE (in article about Paradise) was another of lead Russian video game magazine (currently closed); GameStar (in article about Alfa) and PC Games (in article about Paradise) are ones of lead German video game magazines. Alex Spade (talk) 13:13, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game-related deletion discussions. (G·N·B·S·RS·Talk) • Gene93k (talk) 02:54, 20 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:54, 20 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ukraine-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:54, 20 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:54, 20 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MBisanz ^talk 00:20, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep All and merge GFI Russia into Game Factory Interactive if another editor supports the merge. Otherwise both should probably be kept. Original comment: These probably should have been nominated individually. Paradise Cracked and Alfa: Antiterror appear notable; I added a bunch of references to their articles. I am not sure how reliable itc.ua or ag.ru are (perhaps Alex Spade could check?) but they seem reliable, and the other sources are certainly reliable. I will have to check on the other game and companies. (edit 1) GFI Russia should probably be merged into Game Factory Interactive just so that we can present the company in the greater context of GFI. GFI Russia does appear notable on its own though. --Odie5533 (talk) 00:32, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- GFI and GFI Russia merging is not a good idea. Historically first one is publisher and localizator primary, second one is developer. Their main historic lines are different enough. The more appropriate solution is merging of Game Factory Interactive + Russobit-M and renaming new article into Belver (new name for Bestway group alliance), but this question must be discussed in new/another discussion. Alex Spade (talk) 13:58, 1 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - I still think that a single article could cover all three of these companies because we have so little content on them all. They are likely all notable in their own right, however, I think they can be best dealt with on a single article and have a section dedicated to GFI Russia. If at some point the article becomes too long, then they could be split off into individual articles. --Odie5533 (talk) 16:39, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete the two organisations as lacking in depth coverage. Stuartyeates (talk) 07:29, 4 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 18:42, 4 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete ALL per nom --Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 00:30, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I would urge you to reconsider looking at the sources provided on Alfa: Antiterror and Paradise Cracked. Each one has 10 reliable sources offering significant coverage of the game. --Odie5533 (talk) 01:07, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's the trouble with "per nom"s when nom alters their rationale. :P — HELLKNOWZ ▎TALK 13:24, 6 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I now agree that the two games pages would benefit from a separate debate and wish to withdraw them. I won't strike them because there are already votes on them, but request that only GFI and GFI Russia pages are considered by the closer. Anyone is free to make another nomination for Paradise Cracked and Alfa: Antiterror if they feel it is justified. Spinning Spark 16:21, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and merge Game Factory Interactive and GFI Russia. Here and here are interviews with GFI and here with MiST. Here and here are a dev inteviews on Warfare with mentions of company. Here's a news article. Here is another interview, but I doubt it's a reliable source. I'm sure I could dig out more, but I think that's enough for WP:GNG at this time. Keep Paradise Cracked and Alfa: Antiterror as having WP:GNG suitable WP:VG/RS. (P.S. Looking at searches above other games like Warfare (2008) are also most likely GNG notable) — HELLKNOWZ ▎TALK 13:23, 6 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.