The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. The letter of NPOL clearly doesn't apply here; this is a policeman, not an elected politician; but as I understand it, the gist of the argument below is that a high-ranking policeman ought to be notable, and for the head of provincial police of a very populous country, that's a strong argument. Arguments against a standalone article are focused on his implication in a killing, and on the letter of NPOL, but none have directly addressed the sources provided, or the idea of notability inherent in such a position. Conversely, while sources have been provided, they have not been evaluated in detail. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:40, 30 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ferdy Sambo

[edit]

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Subject is associated almost exclusively with a single event (WP:ONEEVENT). Any relevant new content, if reliably sourced, should be merged into Killing of Brigadier Nofriansyah Yosua Hutabarat and a Redirect put in place. Paul W (talk) 10:37, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Indonesia-related deletion discussions. Paul W (talk) 10:37, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Police-related deletion discussions.CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 10:44, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Keep per WP:POLITICIAN. I know that "WP:POLITICIAN" is designed to apply to people whose career is politician, but I think it applies well enough to high ranking government officials who are not politicians. This person is high ranking. I do not want the article filled with cruft, and they did come to international prominence for WP:ONEEVENT, but they were nationally relevant before that one event just because of their high rank. If this merge is executed then biographical details about their government rank would be WP:UNDUE in the event article and lost. We keep those kinds of details in biographical articles. I do support anyone trimming content from this article to comply with Wikipedia's reliable sources guidelines, as I suspect some content and sources here do not comply.

I expect this issue has arisen before in AfD for non-politician government officials but do not know the precedent or how to find one. The deletion nomination is fair and I may be in error. Bluerasberry (talk) 17:41, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

comment/reply. Sambo is/was not a politician (not elected to his high ranking role). If he was nationally relevant, we would expect citation of reliable sources predating the shooting incident, but the references about him all appear to be from sources dated after the incident, which (to me) underlines he is only notable because of this one event. Paul W (talk) 07:12, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:17, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This search for news sources predating the killing gets lots of hits, but most of them are in Indonesian which I unfortunately do not read. Phil Bridger (talk) 12:19, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. In my opinion it's notable enough to cover into separate article, since he was the head of Propam division before murder event. Dede2008 (talk) 08:26, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Killing of Brigadier Nofriansyah Yosua Hutabarat. Clearly fails WP:BLP1E. No evidence has been produced that his role with the Indonesian National Police passes NPOL; and we have no examples of individuals with similar positions having articles in wikipedia. Without any sigcov of his role with the INP, it's doubtful this is an NPOL pass. 4meter4 (talk) 00:50, 15 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Reply - 2 examples of "individuals with similar positions having articles in wikipedia." Napoleon Bonaparte (police officer) and Susno Duadji. Both of whom being fired from the National Police due to various controversies and events, just like Sambo. gtgamer79 (talk) 09:40, 15 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, RL0919 (talk) 12:35, 15 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:23, 22 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Merge this BLP as suggested by nominator as an alternative to deletion. I reject assertions WP:NPOL applies in this case, though it's a debatable issue. User:Bluerasberry's reasonable concerns can be satisfied by a merge of best sources and a biographical subsection to the event page. IMHO, the relevant guidance is at WP:PERP and WP:RECENTISM. This living fellow did not have and would not have qualified to have an article about him on English Wikipedia on the day before the killing. This is what his page looked like on Indonesian Wikipedia just before the incident (essentially a quite detailed resumé). An article on the notable event itself exists (which pre-dates this page). ~~Of the sources presented thusfar, virtually all originated after the event.~~ BusterD (talk) 01:01, 23 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- I've struck-through my last assertion, self-trouting for my inaccuracy by User:Phil Bridger's previously offered search link. In any event, I'm going to maintain the merge is the best outcome for this process. BusterD (talk) 02:44, 23 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.