The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Will userify on request. Courcelles 03:52, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Elijah wood (drummer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Doesn't appear to meet the notability guidelines for musicians. E. Fokker (talk) 00:25, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand... I have cited many sources for my info. I just added some now. I'm very sorry, this is my first wiki page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hotbabe1219 (talk • contribs) 00:32, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm using my site (the about page) to get all of the info that's on my wiki page. Is this not enough? I can't really go much further as far as sources because my site is the only place where my bio is located. Hotbabe1219 (talk) 07:39 PM, 6 January 2011 (EST)

• Comment- Just because a page is properly referenced doesn't necessarily make its subject notable. See WP:BAND. Epass (talk) 00:46, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment- I just looked at that. I believe I meet all that criteria. I haven't yet posted all of that as of yet on to my wiki page however. Hotbabe1219 (talk) 00:53, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could you please supply which of the twelve criteria you are basing your notability claim on? (For example, #3 is Has had a record certified gold or higher in at least one country.) An artist only has to meet one of the twelve criteria to be considered notable, but I can not determine which you are referring to. Epass (talk) 01:08, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oh sorry!! typo..didn't mean ALL. for example: "Is an ensemble which contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a member of two or more independently notable ensembles." - I perform with Mark Wood who is an Emmy award winning composer and has many platinum selling albums as well as Laura Kaye who has performed with Aretha Franklin, James Brown, Lenny Kravitz, and many more notable artists. Also, "Has won or placed in a major music competition." - I have won a major drum competition in NY. And, "Has been the subject of a half-hour or longer broadcast across a national radio or TV network." - there was a full length feature on what I do on NBC's today show. Hotbabe1219 (talk) 01:17, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • When it speaks of ensembles, I believe it is referring to a more long-term ensemble than just doing some performances with them, but someone with more knowledge on this subject may be able to elaborate. Also, I believe for a music competition to be 'major' it must be national or international, or at least be well-known outside of the area in which it happens. For the final point, as I have not seen the feature you are referring to, I can not make a judgement. To meet that criteria, though, the segment would have to be solely on the person in question; the person could not have been included on a segment that talked mainly about another artist to whom the person in question has a relationship. See Wikipedia:BIO#Invalid_criteria. Epass (talk) 01:31, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • I do perform with the Mark Wood Experience as their main drummer and we have toured. It's not just "a couple of gigs". As far as the others, that would make the drum competition void as well as the today show feature. It was on the program I work with and I did get an interview on it. In addition, MTV is planning to do a pilot with that same program, again with me on drums. Hotbabe1219 (talk) 01:38 PM, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
• Delete for now since his notability has not yet been established. When he gets some coverage in the mainstream media (or at least respected specialty media) then he should have an article here. Jaque Hammer (talk) 02:02, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have been covered by many national TV stations. I did a feature on NBC's Today Show and I was on CBS evening news. My drums have been used in the Tour De France bike race on international media. I don't really know why I shouldn't have an article here. I do successfully meet several of the criteria mentioned before. Hotbabe1219 (talk) 02:12 PM, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
  • Also, at the NAMM show (5 days from now in CA), I will be performing with many famous musicians and I should also mention that I'm endorsed by 3 major drum companies and will appear in the 2011 ads for Zildjian cymbals. Hotbabe1219 (talk) 02:17 PM, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
• Comment: I'm unsure if this article meets this criterion from WP:MUSIC:

"In order to meet Wikipedia's standards for verifiability and notability, the article in question must actually document that the criterion is true. It is not enough to make vague claims in the article or assert a band's importance on a talk page or AfD page – the article itself must document notability." Epass (talk) 02:21, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• • I do apologize, it is late where I live. If you allow, I would love to continue to edit my article to show that I have accomplished all that I've stated. Hotbabe1219 (talk) 02:23 PM, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
  • As someone else on this list said, "Don't judge the notability of an article's subject only by the sources placed by less knowledgeable editors. A web search finds that this artist has been well-covered but everybody neglected to put better sources in the article. It needs expansion and improvement, not deletion." - I do believe that my article just needs to be expanded and improved on. Which myself and others can do. Hotbabe1219 (talk) 08:00 PM, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 19:43, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. I've had all my comments addressed, and I think that this article should be deleted. I agree with the reasons stated by Jaque Hammer; after getting coverage in the mainstream media this musician may warrant a page, but their notability has not been established quite yet. Epass (talk) 21:16, 7 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Notability is not clearly established through available sources. Subject should read the COI notice on his talk page and consider that if the subject were notable enough, someone else would already have written an article about him. Kudpung (talk) 01:10, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete son of a notable person, but notability is not inherited. (see WP:NOTINHERITED) Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 15:56, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: I've put a note on the author's talkpage offering to help him look for RSes to support notability if this closes in a delete and he wants it userfied. --- cymru.lass ^{(hit me up)}⁄_{(background check)} 07:21, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - If you were Carmine Apice, Harvey Mason, Lenny White, Billy Cobham, (or even Gerry Brown who still doesn't even have a Wiki page), I would give you a page in Wikipedia without hesitation. One win at Drum Fight VI + Drum Expo, a local Long Island event and an extremely brief and fleeting mention of it in Modern Drummer among all the other winners does not constitute significant coverage. All the other sources are self-published or non reliable websites and do not count. Endorsing contracts do not count for much - I've had them myself with Paiste and Premier. Whether you are notable or not, unfortunately, Wikipedia articles are based on provable fact. Kudpung (talk) 09:15, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.