- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 02:53, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- El Bilga Khatun (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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This is an 8th-century person from Central Asia. A discussion formerly took place about a fictional rendition of the person; during which time the article was reworked into what it is now, and the discussion became extremely messy. This is a procedural nomination to get a discussion about the actual person. Geschichte (talk) 10:22, 30 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Well, per my GT-reading of the Turkish refs in the Biography section, they say "She is the mother of the Turkish Khan of the Göktürk State, Bilge Khan." and not much more (about her). Also, they don't seem to be very WP:RS on the topic of history. I don't know what the zh.wikisource.org ref adds. So I'm still at delete. The character has a place at Diriliş:_Ertuğrul#Cast_and_characters. Also, Geschichte, this new afd could use some "Note: This discussion has been included in the list of..." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:03, 30 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 11:54, 30 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Central Asia-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 11:54, 30 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 11:56, 30 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep I really don't agree with Gråbergs Gråa Sång saying these are not RS: Sözcü [1], A Haber [2], Hürriyet [3], Akşam [4] [5], Takvim [6]. Regarding the content of the sources, I translated them, see here. ~Styyx Talk? ^-^ 16:12, 30 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Styyx, "You need access" (your gdoc). And I think for an article about history we should be able to find something like a historybook. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:13, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I forgot to make it public -_- Try this. If it doesn't work I don't know. ~Styyx Talk? ^-^ 13:31, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Btw I just found out the Orhun Writings is Orkhon inscriptions. ~Styyx Talk? ^-^ 13:53, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- (edit conflict) Thanks, that worked. Ok, that is something. I don't know the Washington Post from the Daily Mail here, and I still prefer historybooks for history. Redirect to Bilgä Qaǧan is a possibility. I assume that "Orhun Writings" is the same as Orkhon inscriptions. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:59, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- comment: aside from the name, is there any connection between the "8th-century person from Central Asia, mother of Bilgä Qaǧan" and the character in the TV series? This seems very far-fetched, and the character seems hardly "a fictional rendition of the person"--Phso2 (talk) 01:00, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Phso2, the Turkish refs in the bio-section seems to say yes, the writers based the character on the person. Seems a little off, but it's fiction, where Mark Twain can appear on a starship. A.k.a artistic license, or WP:FILMHIST. Of course, the refs could be wrong. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:13, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Phso2, there is at least one writer and one director from the show on record in 2018 (shortly before the 5th/final season began) mentioning they based this particular character on the specific historical figure (particularly the historical figure's noble personal qualities that made her renowned alongside her husband). I will try to find those, but it's unlikely, as they were IG live and short interview pre-season-premiere fluff snippets. I will search YT when I get a chance, later. Teavannaa (talk) 15:26, 31 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- So what appears from these sources is that the TV character is rather loosely based on, or inspired by, the actual person (at least some people in the prodution say so...); the section about the fictional character should be moved to the article about the series, or an article dedicated to its characters.--Phso2 (talk) 18:40, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Turkey-related deletion discussions. ~Styyx Talk? ^-^ 16:14, 30 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Redirect to Bilgä Qaghan, her son. I doubt there is anything worth merging. The majority of the article is about historical fiction, not history, which is not appropriate for WP. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:05, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep & improve I would distinguish between the historical person (of some import, clearly) and the fictional depiction thereof (of somewhat dubious notability), and focus this on the former. Cut down the 'In popular culture' section to literally just a passing mention, and remove all but one or two (the closest to RS) references to support that. That will leave a very short stub, but one that could later be built upon. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:53, 4 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.