The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Discussion to merge should take place at the article's talk page. –Juliancolton | ^Talk 02:32, 29 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dersim genocide (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Delete no reliable source.Even it uses a terrorist organiztaion(pkk) as a source.The creator of this article should learn the meaning of genocide.Abbatai (talk) 16:24, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Turkey-related deletion discussions. -- J^mundo 17:19, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep – Actually, the word genocide is used in most scholarly works. However, rename to Kurdish Genocide, as this incident is more commonly known as, in academic works, as shown here [1], in particular this book [2]. Worse case scenario, Merge/Redirect to Dersim rebellion.Thanks ShoesssS ^Talk 19:02, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.Not suppressing a political group.Your information is just propaganda if there were a "Kurdish Genocide" the turkish government would relocate all kurds in anatolia.However this case was only carried out in one city that was rebellious.Abbatai (talk) 07:57, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I believe you overlooked the “…in part” of your statement, which is also included in the definition.. Thanks. ShoesssS ^Talk 11:50, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What I say is totally different residents of Dersim were a political group(rebellious) which is not included in this definition not ethnic, religous or national group.If you say it was a genocide you should call all political suppressions as genocide.See Black January.Abbatai (talk) 12:29, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. The article in its current form may have some WP:RS issues, but that's not the same thing as lacking coverage in reliable sources, which the subject of this article has, as Shoessss has indicated.--Unscented (talk) 19:21, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The writer of the book you are reffering is not a genocide scholar even if he was that wouldnot change anything today many turks also claim there was a turkish genocide by armenians.We should seperate genocide claims and genocide.Abbatai (talk) 16:38, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep and carefully consider renaming. Here is one source (reliable?) that mentions the use of the term Dersim genocide: annoyingly it's not letting me past the URL because it contains characters that wikipedia parses:

http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=34808&tx_ttnews[backPid]=7&cHash=887bf4a0cb

The source is "Assyrian Nationalists Cooperate with Kurdish PKK Insurgents"

Publication: Terrorism Monitor Volume: 7 Issue: 8. Cazort (talk) 22:40, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - there is no need for a rename, most of its content can be incorporated into the Dersim rebellion article (which could also mention the "genocide" allegation if enough credible sources use it). Meowy 02:12, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment I wasn't aware of that separate article. I think they should be merged. On the other hand, there is little content on that page and more on this one. Also, I found another source that refers to it both as genocide, and as the "Dersim Rebellion": M. Van Bruinessen, "Genocide in Kurdistan? The suppression of the Dersim rebellion in Turkey (1937–38) and the chemical …", Genocide: Conceptual and Historical Dimensions, 1994. Page 141 of this book begins the covering of this topic: [3]. I am starting to become convinced that we should merge/redirect into Dersim Rebellion but that we should mention that the term "Genocide" is used by many to describe what happened there. Cazort (talk) 13:33, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge with Dersim rebellion, but with the title up for discussion on the talk page. I think these two articles are each better understood in context with each other, but each of these titles seems to lean towards one point of view, with "rebellion" suggesting that the Kurds were the instigators of the events, and "genocide" suggesting more than is generally agreed amongst independent sources. "Genocide" has a very strong meaning, so the word shouldn't be used in an article title for every suppression of national aspirations, even if it involves a massacre, but the fact that some sources describe it as a genocide should be covered in the article. I note that the source cited by the previous contributor has a question mark in the title. There also seems to be a question mark about whether this can be called "genocide" in most of these sources about these events, at least in those that appear to be independent. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:58, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge with Dersim rebellion, changing the title to Dersim Ethnocide. The article has only one source, with Andreopoulos' Genocide: Conceptual and Historical Dimensions, simply restating Van Bruinessen's information. Without further primary sources and historiography, it is rather presumptuous to label this event as a genocide. --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:16, 25 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.