The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. --bainer (talk) 03:29, 3 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

DM Ashura

[edit]

Closer's notes

In determining the final consensus, the comments of several users were disregarded:

  • The very new user MarsPhoenix (talk · contribs), whose only contributions are to this AfD and the article in question;
  • The user Bill Shillito (talk · contribs), who claims to be the subject of the article in question.

There were two issues in this debate:

  • On the issue of notability, a majority of users were of the opinion that the subject was sufficiently notable to warrant keeping the article. Several users were satisfied the subject met the WP:MUSIC guideline. Debate on this point was, on the whole, in favour of keeping the article.
  • On the issue of verifiability, several users raised concerns that the article was not based on truly independent, non-trivial sources. These concerns were not addressed by those in favour of keeping the article. Debate on this point was in favour of deleting the article.

As such, the result of the debate was no consensus. Further, since the arguments about sources were not addressed, the article will be tagged with ((unreliable)). The application of this tag should be treated as part of the result of this debate and should not be removed until the concerns raised below have been addressed.

DM Ashura is a Bemani fan known for making remixes of songs. A few of his songs are now in DDR, but I don't think that makes him "notable". In any case, unless Konami included a short bio in the Ultramix 4 booklet, I don't think anything but the fact that he made these songs is verifiable. --SPUI (T - C) 02:17, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • 'Fraid not, Bill, because it doesn't represent an independent (i.e. unconnected to the subject of the article) source. For more info on what would work, see WP:V and WP:RS. The problem is, the only place your music is really mentioned in significant sources of any kind is just mentions that it's appeared in these two music games, which is not really enough for an article. (And to User:MarsPhoenix, the line in WP:MUSIC about appearing in multiple non-trivial published works is referring to being mentioned in something like a newspaper article, not having their own work released in a game or on an album). Unfortunately, I'm not sure if even the BroadJam piece qualifies, because as it stands I can't actually find much evidence for notability of BroadJam itself (it doesn't even have its own article yet, but I'm not dismissing the possibility that the notability is there but no-one's written the article yet). Confusing Manifestation 03:46, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • My argument as for the "major"ness of the music contest is that the winners were featured in what is possibly the most well-known and best-selling music game franchise in the world. Here's another link to the contest from a Konami page: DDR Contest As for appearing in music games, is there a number of music games that would be "enough" for an article, considering some other artists in the "Bemani music" category? Bill Shillito 04:25, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment Third party sources indicating notability, in this case, need to be something other than your own creation (a personal website), a DDR official, or Konami feature. If you had a Third Party, by that criteria, review, award, or mention of another reputable or notable source then that would satisfy the requirements. -- wtfunkymonkey 05:08, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment for the time being I am going to abstain from voting, until more arguments are made and I have a chance to research more. [1] is approaching the type of material needed, but the IGN article itself does nothing to attest to you or your song's notability. Something indicating your material's uniqueness or importance would do nicely, however. -- wtfunkymonkey 05:14, 27 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The article contains much more "information" (read: arguably unnecessary biographical stuff) than other Bemani artist articles, but it's not like there are any sources for most of it. If the article is going to stay, the unverifiable stuff definitely needs to be dumped. Drano 09:13, 1 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. First, please bold your first word so everything is easier to read. Thanks. :) Now to answer your question: He's "notable" because, minus any Bemani connections, he is still a up and coming musician that is very well known (although mostly just throughout the Bemani community). His success may spread later so that he is well known thoughout any music community, but we can't tell the future, now can we? So are you saying let's not give him a page until he's "really really really" famous? And who decides when that is? Bkid 00:13, 1 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm going into academic research, I could be really famous some day. Do I get an article? As for "who decides when he is": usually the measure is whether the press have said enough about someone to write a decent encyclopedia article about them. Sockatume 01:02, 1 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
But have you done any big research yet? DM Ashura has made plenty, and I mean PLENTY of songs already. His talent is pretty obvious to me. MarsPhoenix 03:20, 1 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This has nothing to do with talent. I don't think anyone would consider that a reason to keep an article around. Drano 09:13, 1 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You just argued "His success may spread later so that he is well known throughout any music community.". As I say, this is not a valid argument. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Sockatume 17:00, 1 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Note, the previous comment was added by me, although I forgot to sign it and log in. Oops. dougk (Talk ˑ Contribs) 03:49, 1 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • What do you mean by "captured" media? Bill Shillito 17:18, 1 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment Original research with six seven references on a one-page article. What, precisely, qualifies as OR in your view? There is very little here that is not backed up by another source. There is very little new knowledge. The only thing that qualifies would be the album's listing. But that's going to be rectified after the site update on dmashura.com. Pumeleon 19:41, 1 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
1) This is a notability-based discussion. DMAshura asserts he has notability at least equal to Konami's in-house DDR composers, who have their own (significantly stubbier) biographies on the Wikipedia. Therefore, unless the AfD is expanded to encompass those articles, his own should not be deleted. As evidence: He is one of four artists to win a Konami-organised competition to have his work included in a DDR title.[2] [3] [4]. He is the only one of the four comissioned by Konami to provide additional material the game, beyond his competition entry. He is also the only one of the four to have his work included in Konami's "V-Rare" CDs, produced to promote upcoming DDR releases.[5] [6]
2) DMAshura's case for notability is not limited to his work on DDR, specifically he has provided music for O2Jam. [7] The producers of O2Jam assert that he is notable in the "beat game" (music game) community. [8]
3) Argument against merging. Given the lengths of the discographies of the various artists, merging the biographies into a list article would be unwieldy.

Strong Keep per all above points. Sharkface217 03:45, 2 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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