The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Consensus seems to be that this concept has been insufficiently described in reliable sources apart from the works by one author, C. J. M. Drake, which means that we have not enough sources to base an article on. Sandstein 12:27, 28 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Conservative terrorism (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Clear and present bias in name and content. More easily accounted for in Right-wing terrorism. - || RuleTheWiki || (talk) 16:06, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Terrorism-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 16:27, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Could merge, but recently "right-wing" and "conservative" have drifted apart. Modern "right-wing" is more likely big-government interventionist surveillance state, antithetical to conservatism. Hyperbolick (talk) 16:44, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Cleanup The sources do seem to make a decent distinction between Nationalist terrorism, Right-wing terrorism, and Conservative Terrorism... But I’m not sure that the article as currently written accurately reflects those sources. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 16:50, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep/cleanup - The article definitely needs a lot of rework, but it does seem to have reliable sources that use this term (which admittedly I had never heard of before this). 107.77.202.56 (talk) 17:00, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Notable topic, since conservatism is the underlying political current in Domestic terrorism in the United States, Anti-abortion violence, and the far-right Militia organizations in the United States. Dimadick (talk) 17:34, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dimadick, there's already an article on right-wing terrorism, which covers those types of groups. TFD (talk) 14:56, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete or redirect to appropriate sections. i.e. KKK or Domestic terrorism in the United States and Command of Communist Hunting. This looks too much like WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. We do not keep such articles. Lightburst (talk) 17:46, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Cleanup The article looks woefully anemic and lacking any direction but the sources are there. Trillfendi (talk) 20:26, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Smacks of someone trying to acore poltical points or right great wrongs. Michepman (talk) 20:41, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep and fix. This appear to be a valid encyclopedic subject based on these references in academic books and other publications [1],[2],[3],[4]. My very best wishes (talk) 21:30, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • They are mostly passing references to Drake's article. "The Phenomenon of Conservative Terrorism" (1996). Can you point to any other article or book about the subject? TFD (talk) 04:57, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not so. For example, the book Terrorism: A Critical Introduction By Richard Jackson, Lee Jarvis, Jeroen Gunning, Marie Breen-Smyth (first link) describes this as a distinct and separate sub-category. That alone justifies creating such page here. My very best wishes (talk) 15:54, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It does not. It briefly mentions the concept in passing on page 157. Passing mentions do not create notability. Can you point to any other article or book about the subject? TFD (talk) 22:49, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Sure. Checking Google Scholar [5] shows a number of additional academicsources, such as

1. this ("Within the framework of conservative terrorism lie the actions of colonial states (colonial terrorism) to maintain their domination"),
2. this ("There might also be an increase in what Drake (2007) called 'conservative terrorism.' This term arose in a debate related to loyalist terrorism in Northern Ireland."),
3. this ("Conservative terrorism can be considered as terrorism carried out in order to defend the existing social, economic or political order or to gain a reversion of an earlier arrangement."), and so on.

My very best wishes (talk) 17:47, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

But none of that goes beyond a definition. You can't just provide a definition, say that some writers say it describes Loyalist terrorism, then cut and paste stuff about loyalist terrorism into the article. You would need to explain why some terrorism fits within the concept. TFD (talk) 17:57, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not so. I do not have access to other sources, but the second one [6] tells:

There might also be an increase in what Drake (2007) called ‘conservative terrorism.’ This term arose in a debate related to loyalist terrorism in Northern Ireland. Drake (2007) argued that ‘pro-state’ terrorism, whereby terrorists carry out attacks in order to eliminate threats, which they believe should have been eliminated by the state's security forces, is more properly seen in the wider context of conservative terrorism. Some signs of it may already be on the horizon since the executive vice president and CEO of the USA National Rifle Association has recently stated that academic and media elites are “America's greatest domestic threats.”

...

It is conceivable that conservative terrorism along the lines of Drake's (2007) writings may increase as a reaction to what may be seen as “over-the-top” political correctness and tolerance of views seen as contrary to those of the “ordinary people”. In other words, political correctness may be interpreted as the implementation of morally rotten policies in our social lives. As a consequence, social institutions - including universities, which are perceived to promote or tolerate such “dissenting views” - might become targets of terrorist attacks.

This is significant discussion. And the Scholar shows a lot more similar sources. My very best wishes (talk) 18:13, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Also note that none of the sources tells this is a variety of Right-wing terrorism. Therefore, the suggestion to merge (or an argument about content fork) would be not justified here. My very best wishes (talk) 18:19, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Conservative terrorism is a concept developed by CJM Drake in his 1996 essay "The phenomenon of conservative terrorism." The concept is briefly mentioned in The Oxford Handbook of Terrorism,[7] The Northern Ireland loyalists Drake mentioned are normally described as ethnic nationalist terrorists. That is they are motivated by supporting their ethnic community rather than the status quo, although the status quo supported their ethnic privilege. There are insufficient secondary sources for an article. TFD (talk) 13:34, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. The term "conservative terrorism" contains the same level of political name-calling as does a term such as "liberal terrorism." By definition (one could look up all the relevant Wikipedia entries), liberals are not extreme left wingers, while conservatives are not extreme right wingers. Terrorism is an extreme practice and a practice of extremist ideologies. Non-extremists do not engage in political terrorism as that would make them extremists. Q.E.D.

The term "conservative terrorism" can be and has been used in the sense of "terrorism by people who aim to protect the status quo" but for each context there is a diferent, specific notation, e.g. in Northern Ireland those who engage in terrorism in order to protect the status quo are denoted as loyalist terrorists (Ulster Volunteer Force, etc). It should be evident, and to your humble, non-conservative servant it is, that having an article on "conservative terrorism" amounts to violating, for starters, WP:NPOV for politicking and WP:PEACOCK for loaded language. Everything worth keeping in the contested text should find a place in the respective articles about the variants of right-wing terorrism. -The Gnome (talk) 11:18, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Gnome Yeah... So the is opposite of conservative terrorism is progressive terrorism not “liberal terrorism.” Nor is progressive terrorist a synonym for “extreme left wingers,” groups such as Al-Quida are progressive but certainly not liberal or leftist. You also incorrectly conflate conservative terrorism and right-wing terrorism, those have never and will never be the same thing. Maybe learn the basics before casting such ridiculous aspersions at your fellow editors? Not only do you look like a fool but its just rude. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 16:40, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Horse Eye Jack, when you change your ways and follow a civilized method of discourse, you could perhaps provide us with evidence for your assertion that Al Qaeda is a "progressive" organization. In the meantime, please refrain from personal attacks -The Gnome (talk) 17:29, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Most of the content in this article appears to be based on Drake's definition, the rest seems to be describing different views on what the term could mean but does not specifically speak to "state-loyal" terrorism (which is what Drake defined it as). With such contradiction, and very little coverage in reliable sources beyond passing mentions, I cannot see a true policy backed reason for us to retain this article. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 10:39, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge and redirect to Right-wing terrorism. Too much overlap and the case has not been made that anything here can't go there. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 23:41, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Per Coffee and TFD. None of the other sources appear to be using Drake's 1996 definition of Conservative Terrorism, not even the 1998 Drake ref. A quote from Claessen is a major part of the introduction, but it has been taken way out of context; he described the ETA and IRA as "conservative nationalist movements" as opposed to "extreme leftist organizations like the German RAF... or Italian Red Brigades". Can't imagine anything further from Drake's definition of "state-loyal terrorism". All the other sources seem to be using conservative as a synonymy for right wing. --RaiderAspect (talk) 08:01, 21 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Conservatism-related deletion discussions. – UnnamedUser (talk; contribs) 23:47, 21 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per Coffee With Market's points. Rubbish computer (Talk: Contribs) 12:55, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.