The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
I lived in St. Catharines for 6 years and I know that Burleigh Hill is literally just a street. There's an elementary school and it's kind of close to the highway/the Pen Centre but I don't think it counts as its own seperate community and would be enough to qualify under WP:GEOLAND. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm not seeing anything online that suggests that it's considered it's own distinct community that doesn't seem to be a Wikipedia mirror. It's also been like 4 sentences since it was created in 2011 (has been completely unsourced since then) and I'm honestly not sure you could say much more than that. You could bring up the elementary school, I guess, but I don't think that's notable in itself. Clovermoss(talk)11:48, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete While the nom is clearly using OR (naughty nom!), it's clearly handy here in spotting that Burleigh Hill is, in fact, not a 'thing'. As happens with these longstanding stubs, the place that is not a place has gained most of its placeness from mirrors using WP. Unsourced, fails WP:GEOLAND, has to go. best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 12:14, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Alexandermcnabb: To be fair, I did bring up WP:GEOLAND and do a proper BEFORE. Just because I haven't heard of it didn't mean there wasn't something I wasn't aware of, y'know? Also I felt like it was relevant to bring up that I've seen what Burleigh Hill looks like in real life. It's a street. I've never even heard people casually refer to it as a community, the most I've heard is "you go past Burleigh Hill" as directions to get to Thorold. Clovermoss(talk)12:22, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Clovermoss: I was just teasing! The first thing I ever did on WP was get the place where I lived in the Emirates changed because it was spelled incorrectly. And I had to fight a wall of 'You can't change it, that's OR, even if you DO live there'. In the end I posted a picture of the copshop with its sign and moved the page. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 12:40, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I have found some evidence that this might count as a distinct community, based off a file that I found. It's original research and doesn't prove that it's notable in its own right, but still, I may technically be wrong about it just being a street. It's a very small area, even according to this map, though. Clovermoss(talk)14:05, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I will say that ancedotally, I've never seen a sign that says something along the lines of "Welcome to the Burleigh Hill Neighbourhood". I've seen signs like that for Glenridge, Merritton, Western Hill, etc. I will also say that I haven't seen any reliable sources that mention Burleigh Hill as a distinct community and definitely nothing that would furfill WP:GNG as an unofficial community according to WP:GEOLAND. As I stated before, I did do BEFORE. Clovermoss(talk)14:30, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Google maps thinks it's a thing, but I don't particularly trust Google maps to know much about the names of Ontario neighbourhoods. That does make me wonder, though: if there are signs for "Welcome to Merritton", where are they? Do they exclude Burleigh Hill? What neighbourhood do people in "Burleigh Hill" say they live in? Here's the ward map, which seems to me to contradict that map you found: [1]. The wards bisect some of the neighbourhoods in that other map, which seems unlikely to me? And I'd trust the municipality over a random wikipedian (sorry @Snickerdo!) in the absence of other evidence. -- asilvering (talk) 01:14, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Asilvering: You can see the welcome to Merritton sign at File:Merriton St. Catharines Neighbourhood Sign.jpg. It doesn't say anything about Burleigh Hill and that street is literally at the next intersection. Since I went there this afternoon I'd figured I might as well take a picture of the sign because the current article used a picture of a local steakhouse and that didn't seem ideal. I counted the amount of steps and it was ~177 from that sign to Burleigh Hill Drive. It was a very short street that I could walk in less than 10 minutes and ended with a sign saying welcome to Thorold (a seperate city), so I really don't see how it could count as a seperate community. Clovermoss(talk)01:38, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Asilvering: I'm also inclined to trust the actual municipality. Thanks for finding that map. I've found it hard to prove a negative, but I haven't been able to find anything suggesting this is its own seperate community apart from Wikipedia mirrors. I will say as someone who did live near there, I literally never heard anyone say "I'm from Burleigh Hill" unless they were referring to the school or lived on the weird small side-street that's behind the hill/school. There aren't any actual houses on Burleigh Hill itself, though, as far as I can tell. There's a Canadian tire, two elementary schools on each side (one's English and the other's French, only the English one is named Burleigh Hill), a hill, and then you have Thorold. I met many people who said they were from Merritton, though. Or Western Hill, etc. a.k.a. the actual neighbourhoods of the city. Clovermoss(talk)01:58, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment it appears to have been a small village at some point in the last 200 some years that was eventually taken over by the larger expanding St. Catherines. I can't find anything to support notability; the local school is named after Burleigh Hill. It probably did exist, but it's not notable for our purposes. Oaktree b (talk) 16:45, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
May I ask where you found out the small village part? I didn't see anything about that, but that does sound fascinating, at the very least. Albeit confusing. Because it's like right in-between the cities of St. Catharines and Thorold and the only neighbourhood it's near that I'm aware of that used to be its own thing before being taken over by expanding St. Catharines was Merritton. If I had to label it as part of a neighbourhood, I would say it's part of that. That doesn't mean I'm just not aware of the history behind it, though. Clovermoss(talk)17:50, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Also my understanding is that the Burleigh Hill school is named after the street. The school is at the bottom of a hill that's also named Burleigh Hill (this is all on the same street). Maybe the hill/street itself is named after something else, though? Like Burleigh does sound like it could be a name. It's possible I'm operating under a misconception here. Clovermoss(talk)18:07, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Oaktree b: I decided to actually go and revisit the area. The Merritton neighbourhood sign is literally 177 steps/at the first intersection right after Burleigh Hill Drive. Burleigh Hill is a very short street and the end of it ~500 steps later up the hill you get to see the City of Thorold sign. I was able to walk the whole street in less than 10 minutes. I don't understand how it could be considered its own community. Is it possible you were looking at something that was about the history of Merritton and it mentioned Burleigh Hill? Clovermoss(talk)23:47, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
