This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Keep --malathion ^talk 21:40, 10 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Anthony Walker

[edit]

Comment - It's sad, but Wikipedia is not a memorial. Besides, the murderer may not even be racist, as the article claims, since a suspect has only been arrested today! Sonic Mew | talk to me 13:01, July 31, 2005 (UTC)
Comment - Here is August 1sts front page of The Independent, one of UK's biggest broadsheets, where Anthony Walker shares the limelight with Stephen Lawrence: http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/newspapers/today/img/6.jpg?Monday,%2001-Aug-2005%2000:06:12%20BST and here is today's front page of The Daily Mirror, UK's second biggest paper http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/newspapers/today/img/2.jpg?Monday,%2001-Aug-2005%2000:06:10%20BST 62.254.64.14 23:56, 31 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - Again, this is newsworthy, but definitely not encyclopedia material. Hate crimes are committed all the time. As sad as they are, and as noteworthy as they may be, they are not long-term articles. Sleepnomore 04:41, August 1, 2005 (UTC)
Keep - This story was the LEAD STORY on BBC News, and front page of BBC News Online. TOmorrow it will be front page of national papers. It was indeed a racist murder as his girlfriend and cousin were with him taunted racially before the man came back with an axe. This is as big a story as Stephen Lawrence. 80.7.118.138 13:42, 31 July 2005 (UTC) — (80.7.118.138's 23rd edit.)[reply]

The fact someone was mentioned once in a TV does establish notability. Pavel Vozenilek 16:16, 31 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Pavel, I think you meant it does not establish notability? Anyway, it's too earliy to vote on this article, as we don't know what will develop. It's truly sad that this young man was brutally murdered before he had a chance to become notable in his own right, though, and I hope the perpetrators are caught and sentenced to a life in prison.DS 00:08, 1 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, Sad as it may be, Wikipedia is not a memorial. And even if it was a lead story, not all lead stories merits their own articles. I would suggest merging this article into one that deals with racism. Inter\^Echo 13:43, 31 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - as above says if you look at the Stephen Lawrence Wiki entry it begins "Stephen Lawrence (September 14, 1974 - April 22, 1993) was a black British teenager living in London, UK, who was murdered in April 1993 at the age of 18. While waiting at a bus stop with his friend Duwayne Brooks, he was attacked and stabbed by a group of five white teenagers." which is very similar to this one - racist attack starting at bus stop. How can you have one in but not the other? Unlike the trigger-happy states this stuff rarely happens in UK so it is very notable to us, like Damilola Taylor and SL he will be a household name. Cashandhoes 14:03, 31 July 2005 (UTC) — (Cashandhoes's 9th edit.)[reply]

Funny, here in the "trigger-happy states", we have very few murders where four white kids embed an axe into a black kid's skull after taunting him for dating a white girl. Or, when British Asians set a Scottish kid on fire by dousing him with petrol. Or, when five white kids stabs a black kid to death. Or, shoot innocent Brazilians. What the hell is wrong with the UK? --Muchosucko 06:14, 1 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Because you lot have guns dished out like cakes whereas they're banned here and hard to get so we need to use other methods to murder! 62.254.64.14 11:18, 1 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Well, judging by the insanity of British yobs (and police officers), banning guns sounds like a great idea.--Muchosucko 22:14, 2 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Nominate it on VfD too. Pavel Vozenilek 16:16, 31 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, Wikipedia is not memorial. There are good reasons for it, due to nature of Wikipedia. Pavel Vozenilek 16:12, 31 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep this isn't a "memorial" as such, it's not mourning the death of someone, more info needs adding about the shockwaves this sent around the UK, media/pressure groups reaction in the aftermath of Stephen Lawrence, etc Placidity 16:26, 31 July 2005 (UTC) — (Placidity's 7th edit.)[reply]
Delete - We don't keep a page for every victim of a hate crime. Perhaps this is more appropriate a subsection of a larger article. Mmmbeer 16:49, 31 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Whilst this has got coverage in the UK (e.g. on the BBC), it is not nearly the groundshaking event that the anon's are claiming it is. I don't think it even really need merging anywhere. Being murdered is too common to make you notable, more's the pity. -Splash 18:12, 31 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - Yes being murdered is too common to make you notable, but a black person getting killed in a racist attack in UK certainly isn't. If you want to delete Anthony you need to delete Damilola Taylor and Stephen Lawrence too. MorganStanMan 19:17, 31 July 2005 (UTC) — (MorganStanMan's 9th edit.)[reply]
  - Those people have had significant effects by being murdered. This person hasn't yet. Besides, this VfD is not about those articles. -Splash 19:23, 31 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Merge - into some article about racism and/or the UK.Karmafist 18:14, 31 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Son of Paddy's Ego 18:38, 31 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - The article should be kept within Wikipedia. It states a horrific incident that occurred in history that's directly related to racism. -UniReb 20:16, 31 July 2005 (UTC) — (UniReb's 25th edit.)[reply]
Keep - I'm sure the family and friends of Mr Walker (RIP) will be delighted to see you gimps discussing reasons why he is not notable enough and qualifies deletion. 62.254.64.14 19:36, 31 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - This is an invalid argument. Can you explain to my cousin why her still-born baby isn't mentioned in the encyclopedia? Can you explain why my parent's neighbor two doors down why her daughter who was shot in a drive by shooting wasn't mentioned in the encyclopedia? Both made the newspaper, but neither are encyclopedic.
  - Was your cousin's baby or parent's neighbour's daughter on the front page of The Daily Mirror or The Independent? Did they replace suicide bombers as the nation's main headline? No. Mr Walker (RIP) is highly notable and the way this page is going with reasons why he should be deleted / excluded days after he died is in extremely poor taste. 62.254.64.14 12:14, 1 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - Splendid appeal to pity, Mr. Anonymous. Terrible things happen all the time. You may be surprised to learn that we don't owe every murder victim a place on Wikipedia. I'm voting to keep, not because I think we callous "gimps" owe it to Walker's family, but because this seems to have become a notable incident in its own right. Let's not let emotion hijack the discussion. Binadot 02:51, 1 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - for now. It's in the news so it's not necessarily going to be completely accurate, but it's notable because it's an apparently racially-motivated murder with an axe in a normally quiet area of Merseyside; not a run-of-the-mill gangland shooting. Maybe by the time this vfd comes to a close the story will have disappeared, but I think the nomination's a bit hasty. Flowerparty ^talk 19:54, 31 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Every murder is a tragedy but every tragedy does not belong on wikipedia. --Sleepyhead81 19:57, 31 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Notable, especially in the U.K. Needs some expansion. Courtkittie 20:11, 31 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Week keep - probably slightly prematurely created, but we can revisit this later in the year if necessary. Dunc|☺ 20:16, 31 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Transwiki - to Wikinews or Delete. Wikipedia is not a memorial, nor is it a news service. Write an article if and when this particular murder victim becomes notable enough for one. android 79 21:01, July 31, 2005 (UTC)
Keep - Well-meaning Wikipedians from outside the UK may not have realised the magnitude of this story over here. Agentsoo 21:20, 31 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - I'm from the UK, and so far as I can tell it's played second or third fiddle to the terror arrests all day today. -Splash 22:11, 31 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - note what the author said, "the magnitude of this story." Not the notability of the victim. A description of the victim certainly belong in an article about the story, not in and of itself. Mmmbeer 23:27, 31 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Transwiki - to Wikinews or Delete. Unfortunately, wikipedia cannot report on every unfortunate death in this world. Perhaps you can start your own memorial wiki or something to that effect. Sleepnomore 22:21, July 31, 2005 (UTC)
Merge - into either a list of victims of Hate Crimes or a larger article to that like. Jaedza 22:22, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
Keep - Notable crime victim and the best place to have an article about the story is under the name of the victim. Capitalistroadster 00:49, 1 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep. This will be a major story soon. Look at the front pages of the UK papers, lead story for BBC. BTW: It was immediately declared a race-based hate crime by the police -- No question about it. If Wiki is not a memorial, we should delete Stephen Lawrence, Kriss Donald, Matthew Shepard immediately. If this page gets voted down, and no one puts a VFD for that in the next 5 days, I will. P.S. I'm staying the fuck away from Huyton for a long, long time.--Muchosucko 05:52, 1 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I have started a story at Wikinews, and added a reference to that story, as well as updating with some additional facts from the Beeb. In my opinion, this is notable, although both the article and the story need more work. DavidConrad 06:31, 1 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I had to look up Stephen Lawrence as it was referenced by many news articles about Anthony Walker. It is likely that this murder will achieve same notability. --Dejan Čabrilo 06:49, 1 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. This article is not a memorial. Guaka 11:06, 1 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Notable story and person. Punkmorten 15:22, 1 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Transwiki - to Wikinews or Delete. Just because the BBC and the rest of the media give it such noticeable coverage, doesn't mean it is notable. The Stephen Lawrence case is notable for what followed, not the murder in itself. Does Wikipedia keep note of every racially motivated murder in the world? Whichever race is on the receiving end? Jmc29
Keep. Not run of the mill. Grace Note 07:10, 2 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, major news story likely to remain notable as a heavily reported murder (compare Stephen Lawrence and Damilola Taylor). Plus, the article has been considerably expanded from the one-line entry it was at the time the VfD was called. Vashti 13:25, 2 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, one of the main reasons put forward for deletion is that Wikipedia cannot be a roll call of all victims of so-called 'hate' crime. Why not? If someone is murdered because he is black, Asian, white or gay, there is every reason why this crime of ignorance should be noted in Wikipedia. It was only through Wikipedia that I found out about the savage and cruel murder of the young, white Scottish lad Kriss Donald, who was killed by a cowardly pack of animals (although at least it looks like they may all have been caught). RIP Kriss. We need articles devoted to victims of bigoted, ignorant hate crime, so we can have some idea of the cancers lurking in the depths of our supposedly all-accepting society. Sab Singh.
Keep. This seems to be noteworthy, although the article needs a lot of expansion. Steevil 18:11, 2 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Best to keep it for now, but we need to keep a careful eye on its tone. By the way, do not remove the VFD tag on the article until it has been officially closed by an admin. I've had to revert an anon IP's edit. The JPS 20:37, 2 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Hi, this is Jaime Sullivan. I'm Anthony's best friend and I'd like to say, on behalf of his family and friends, we'd very much like to see this article remain. As people have said, it's just as important as any other major news story, and also a reminder that not only racism, but also community spirit and pride still exist today. It IS a notable story and believe me, he was and always will be a very, very notable person. Thanks very much.
Delete this is a sad story but Wikipedia is not a memorial. JamesBurns 05:38, 5 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
- I believe this article meets the criterion "Persons achieving renown or notoriety for their involvement in newsworthy events" from Wikipedia:Criteria for inclusion of biographies. Punkmorten 23:25, 6 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, this has nothing to do with being a memorial and everything to do with the fact that Walker's murder is a notable and newsworthy event. Ben-w 06:52, 5 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Transwiki to WikiNews and Merge into an article about hate-crime victims. As much as this is a tragedy and something that should never be forgotten, the sad truth is that if you make an article for each hate crime murder there is out there we'll probably never see the end of it --T-Boy 08:47, 10 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.