The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 03:00, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Allan Ivo Steel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Aside from dying in World War I, this player does not seem to rise to WP:NCRICKET. I already removed some information about his brother and his mother, as they lacked sources. The article is looking pretty bare at this point. Hornpipe2 (talk) 17:48, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Cricket-related deletion discussions. Hornpipe2 (talk) 17:48, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and England. Shellwood (talk) 18:32, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• weak delete: Found a book describing him as a "first class cricketeer" [1] but it's barely a few paragraphs. This is also a brief mention [2]. Just don't have enough on this fellow. Oaktree b (talk) 19:02, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Mentioned in plenty of book sources, in quite some detail. AA (talk) 20:44, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Where, we don't have any listed? Oaktree b (talk) 21:57, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Final Wicket: Test and First Class Cricketers Killed in the Great War (which I have) goes into great detail on him. Wisden has an obituary on him in its 1918 edition, which also goes into a good degree of detail. I'd imagine there's coverage in newspapers from the time too, The Times certainly mentions him following his death. AA (talk) 22:03, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  This is all fine and I appreciate the additional resources added, but, does that still make him a "notable" player in the eyes of WP:NCRICKET? I'm hardly knowledgeable of cricket, does

  "he represented Marylebone Cricket Club (MCC) and also Middlesex in two first-class matches in 1912."

  counts as "Have played at the international level for a Test-playing nation"? Hornpipe2 (talk) 00:09, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  NCRICKET goes on to say "Additionally, cricketers who have played at the highest domestic level, or in the lower levels of international cricket, may have sufficient coverage about them to justify an article, but it should not be assumed to exist without further proof." Playing for Middlesex in first-class cricket counts as "the highest domestic level", so it depends on whether he has "sufficient coverage". Going by what AA has written, he probably does. JH (talk page) 08:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I'm inclined toward keep here, although the very worst case situation would be a redirect to List of Middlesex County Cricket Club players with a note added to include the reference detail. There's a Wisden obituary with some detail and I would be surprised if there weren't other obituaries - Eton, The Times etc.... Given his family and status this seems very, very likely - I'd suggest that with any war death that a significant BEFORE should really take place as there's often a scad load of detail out there and as a person he would appear to me to be clearly notable in terms of the sorts of things we'd look for. The book that is referred to above is usually a detailed source as well, and Sandford also appears to mention him in his The Final Over: The Cricketers of Summer 1914 - there's story about him uncovering a diamond worth £1 million in Kashmir. No idea where that came from, but there's clearly coverage out there about the chap and he seems notable to me. Blue Square Thing (talk) 20:07, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: No consensus here yet.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:25, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Still need to hear from a few more editors.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:17, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Three short paragraphs in various sources, which I would say delete; but according to @AA, detailed coverage in multiple books as well as a Times article. This sourcing seems to pass WP:GNG, even if his individual case is not necessarily different from others. Mrfoogles (talk) 01:03, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He's on my list to expand. I have an interest in WWI cricketers. Have to juggle that with my Hampshire cricket expansion project! AA (talk) 18:09, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.