The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 19:36, 10 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Alcides Moreno (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Living person notable for only one not so notable 'miracle' (falling from the 47th floor and living) Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 19:25, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep. I'll never understand why an incredible event like this isn't noteworthy. Every single player on the Washington Wizards has their own wikipedia entries with information down to who they're dating... but a man who falls 47 floors and survives doesn't deserve a short page about the incident? That's embarrassing and I think this is a good opportunity to, maybe just for a moment, raise the standard. This isn't an article about miracles, where they come from, or what they mean... just about a guy who defied disastrous odds and could still be talked about years later. This would a good article for other articles to link to, as long as an encylcopedia is allowed to contain more than just well known information. Don't shoot it down just because it's not important to you personally. Neo aa (talk) 20:03, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. Non-notable, WP:NOT. If having an accident made you notable, most everyone in the world would have their own article at one time or another. Redfarmer (talk) 20:11, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You know anybody else had a 47 story "accident?" Guy didn't trip over a shoelace... he had an impact in to the ground from 500 feet up. If "everyone in the world" has experienced this, I'll completely concede to your point. Neo aa (talk) 20:15, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, well, I don't know anyone other than myself who's delivered a baby, performed in Boston's Symphony Hall and authored a Scarlet Pimpernel concordance. Doesn't make me notable either. Delete as failing WP:BIO and, as much as anything else, WP:BLP1E. To quote: "Wikipedia is not a newspaper. The bare fact that someone has been in the news does not in itself imply that they should be the subject of an encyclopedia entry. Where a person is mentioned by name in a Wikipedia article about a larger subject, but remains of essentially low profile themselves, we should generally avoid having an article on them."  Ravenswing  22:10, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - Thats not the point. It is not notable enough to satisfy inclusion into this encyclopedia. It made news, for what, one day. Its not like a huge breaking news story, its just a trivial little thing which, in my opinion, has been blown entirely out of proportion. D.M.N. (talk) 20:57, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Per Ravenswing and WP:NOT. Wikipedia is very clear on this point. This is not a news blog, encyclopedic notability is quite different. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 22:33, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Wikipedia routinely reports news events - just see the home page which has a section for breaking news. The point of WP:BLP1E is that there should usually only be one article on such a matter - not a separate bio article too. But in this case, this seems to be the one article. The matter got widespread coverage in national newspapers across the world and there has been followup coverage too. If major newspapers find the matter notable then it is, by definition. Colonel Warden (talk) 23:19, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:NOT#NEWS. Notability is not established by being in the news for a brief period. Redfarmer (talk) 01:47, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. We've got an article about Vesna Vulović, whose only claim to fame is falling a great distance and surviving, so why not Alcides Moreno? Falling 47 stories and surviving seems pretty darned notable to me. Bryan Derksen (talk) 01:04, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You can't achieve notability for an article by pointing to another article, though. Besides, what makes that subject notable is coverage in the Guinness Book of World Records. If they weren't in that book, they probably wouldn't achieve notability. Redfarmer (talk) 01:47, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak keep as has the potential to be notable for the unprecedented surgeries he underwent. If is it must be deleted, at least redirect and merge into window cleaner. Btyner (talk) 02:44, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. To understand why this doesn't belong here is to understand the difference between a newspaper and an encyclopedia. Quale (talk) 03:33, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Falling out a window doesn't make you notable, even if you survive. Mostlyharmless (talk) 06:02, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak delete. Plenty of news coverage (in the US and internationally), but no real long-term notability... yet - per WP:NOT#NEWS and WP:BLP1E. Definitely appropriate for Wikinews.-h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 06:36, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete In future, many people may fall from the 47th floor and survive! Should we create articles for all of them? This article is difficulty to categorize. This type of articles are not suitable for a global encyclopedia. Masterpiece2000 (talk) 10:22, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep since nobody before has ever fallen and survived from anywhere near this height, it is notable, and if will remain notable as the first even if others do later. There may eventually be thousands of people who walk on the moon, but it won't make Neil Armstrong the less notable.DGG (talk) 00:14, 6 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Moreno isn't remotely close to the record there; Vesna Vulocic is cited above, and there was also Nick Alkemade during WWII.  Ravenswing  01:04, 6 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong KEEP. Surviving a fall of 47 stories IS EXTREMELY NOTABLE. Rare of rare events. All "other freefall survivors" referenced on the Vesna Vulović page were distinct from this one in that they fell in environments that contributed to their survival through something external that cushioned their landing. Alcides Moreno fell 500 feet onto asphalt and/or concrete in an urban environment. Surviving this fall is clearly unique enough to note. Additionally noteworthy about this article is that his survival involved following training that may be of significant use for the safety of others, notably landing "without striking his head" and "'he knew what to do with the platform'— meaning, according to other window washers, lie flat and ride it down." Reference:http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/04/nyregion/04fall.html?em&ex=1199595600&en=a6cd1e14f02e1178&ei=5087%0A  Palladeus  — Palladeus (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
• Delete per HisSpaceResearch. D.M.N. (talk) 21:16, 6 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep The profoundly unusual survival of this man, despite what he experienced, not only makes the article noteworthy (and encyclopedic) at this time, but will keep it that way for many, many years. —Catdude (talk) 03:08, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Keep Notable event, national coverage. -- Kendrick7^talk 22:49, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.