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Hi Anna, I asked JoJan and got a reply. I filled in some new info on the Project Page to let you know a way to make a compromise for the time being, in terms of getting the clades into the taxobox. Best, Susan, Invertzoo (talk) 22:08, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Since you said you were new to this (from the quality of your work, I would not notice... kudos!) here are a few things I noted in my Wikipedia time:
Have fun!
PS as regards the "informal": specifically (as far as I can tell) they use it to denote what they suspect to be clades, but which are not discussed, defined etc in the preceding literature. A caveat emptor, sort of a "we suspect this to be a monophyletic group but if you think otherwise that's OK for the time being". What they refer to as "clades" on the other hand are clades that have been widely discussed in the literature already and which have been tested and found widespread acceptance. Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 11:47, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
Thank you for starting the Frank DiPascali article. It's about time! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frank90902 (talk • contribs) 23:38, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Anna, I may very likely ask for your help quite soon. We may have to blank the text in the articles. Perhaps we can ask to try to get a bot to do it (?) but if not we all will have to do it I suppose, since GB himself does not seem to be very actively committed to working on it all. One thing you could do to help is to read the Wp pages about CopyVio problems at WP:COPYVIO and WP:CP, because 2 heads are better than 1. I would really like to talk to an editor who is more expert than I am on this kind of thing to get some feedback on the best course of action. If you can hunt down someone like that that would be great.
As for the MP software, I am on a Mac and I could not get the link you gave me to work at all? Invertzoo (talk) 20:41, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Here is a note I have sent to all project Gastropods editors, and posted on the GP talk page too: Invertzoo (talk) 21:21, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
I want to alert all Project Gastropods staff to the fact that we currently have a very major CopyVio problem which compromises the integrity of the encyclopedia, and opens the door for legal action against Wikipedia. This problem is spread across a huge number of gastropod articles (approximately 800 to 1,000) and it also spills over into the other molluscan groups. I am asking ask everyone who is available to help out with this in whatever way they can, but please do so in an organized and unified fashion so we all know what is going on. It seems that all of the articles in the Category: Molluscs of New Zealand [1] contain a great deal of text that is copied verbatim or almost verbatim from the 1979 book by Powell, New Zealand Mollusca. I have had no experience in dealing with a crisis of this magnitude. Any help that any of you can offer or suggest is more than welcome. Invertzoo (talk) 21:21, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
To WPGastropods members and other interested parties:
If you have not already done so, please look at the thread of messages at: A very large and widespread CopyVio problem
And read the message on the Gastropod talk page conversation. from an admin who is an expert on fixing CopyVio problems, Moonriddengirl (talk).
Also please look at/read through the two new subpages created from the WikiProject Gastropods talk page, and listed at the top of [2].
I am sorry but I have to be careful not to type too much, because I hurt my hand and fingers early this week, so rather than attempting to explain the progress so far in detail, I am leaving it up to you to read the messages and work out what is going on.
Thanks so much, Invertzoo (talk) 21:48, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Hi Anna, nice to hear from you and thanks so much for all your hard work, which is very much valued. I have not had a chance to really look at your letter "C" articles yet. I did see the double redirect problem though, and I don't know how to solve it. Do you mind if I move both your questions over to Whpq (talk)? I could not do much at all yesterday because I had a colonoscopy in the morning. There are a few things I would like to try to catch up on if I can. Many thanks to you, from Sluggy Susan aka Invertzoo (talk) 13:19, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Update: I posted your question and Whpq's answer on our CopyVio clean-up page in case anyone else runs into the same problem. Best to you, Invertzoo (talk) 14:08, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Hi again Anna, I replaced your description with the one that KP Botany drafted. I wanted to explain that tweaking an author's text is not acceptable if it is clear when you compare one to the other, that the "new" version is just a tweaked version of the old one, a light paraphrasing of it. It is a giveaway if the ideas appear in exactly the same sequence, and some of the turns of phrase are exactly the same.
Text needs to be read, understood, and then completely rewritten from the bottom up. None of the "turns of phrase" can be the same. So if Shakespeare writes:
"To be or not to be, that is the question."
It is wrong for me to write: "To be or not to be, that is the main question that all of us have to deal with."
It is also not right for me to write: "The main question we all have to deal with is whether we should be or not be."
I would have to write perhaps something like this:
"One essential dilemma that all of us wrestle with at some point in our lives is: is it preferable to be alive, or dead?"
To be honest, even that is a paraphrase, but I think it would past muster as not actually being a copyvio
Does that make the whole thing clearer? Don't feel too weird about having done it, as I am certain that I have been lazy on many occasions and not re-written something quite thoroughly enough, probably we have all done that every once in a while, but it is certainly something to avoid carefully, as it is plagiarism and it is a CopyVio.
Unfortunately there is no really simple definition that can nail down the exact difference between an OK rewrite and a not OK rewrite, but I hope what I have written gives you a better idea. All good wishes, Invertzoo (talk) 20:51, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Don't feel badly Anna. You could always simply write your articles without a "Description" section, that would be perfectly fine, really it would. The gastropod articles you have done have been fabulous. You should be proud. We already have many hundreds of stubs in the Project that don't include a "description", and they are still very valuable to us and to the readers, especially when there is a photograph anyway in order to show what the animal looks like, (then of course a description is not so necessary.) There are still plenty of photos of sea slugs that are waiting to be part of an article, and when you include the link to SeaSlugForum or whatever, that makes it very easy for someone else if they want to add stuff to your stub or start article. I have really enjoyed your new contributions. Oh and thanks for what you said about the CopyVio clean-up, but really it has been easier to organize the pages than it has been to do all the individual changes, I give the most credit to those people who have come in and quietly gone to work. I have done very little at all of that so far. Best wishes, it's really nice to have you around Anna. Invertzoo (talk) 00:15, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
You're welcome Anna. Don't drive yourself crazy, you will learn over time. It's not easy to rewrite these technical descriptions when you are not too clear what they are actually saying. As you gradually learn more about the structure of nudibranchs it will get clearer to you. "Dorsum" just means the back of the animal. You can say "back" if you like. Tubercles just means structures that look like warts. Rhinophores are those cute little "bunny ears" that the nudibranch has on the top of the head. Rhinophoral pocket is a sort of socket or pocket that the bunny ear fits into and can actually retract into, if a fish tries to nibble on the bunny ear. Ventral surface means the underside of the creature, the side it crawls on. When you read the SlugForum description, look at the image and see if you can work out what the description is saying. You can always shorten the description and not go into it all in such detail. Take your time. You can ask me to help you too, I don't mind. I didn't mean you should delete your previous descriptions, I meant that when you write more sea slug articles you can simply leave out the description section if that will make it easier for you. That would be fine. Articles can always be improved by someone else. Sluggy hugs, Invertzoo (talk) 13:06, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
The Copyright Cleanup Barnstar | ||
For your invaluable assistance in the Gastropods Copyvio Cleanup taskforce. Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:42, 18 March 2009 (UTC) |
The Bio-star | ||
As a valuable new member of WikiProjectGastropods, to thank you for all the good work you have put into creating new gastropod articles, as well as saving ones that had CopyVio, I award you this Barnstar, Anna. Invertzoo (talk) 18:19, 26 March 2009 (UTC) |
Hi Anna, Yes, Jimbo was telling me just the other day, "Anna is more than welcome to go through my fridge anytime!" LOL. Thanks for reading my user page: I can't believe you lived in St. Kitts for a year, were you at the Veterinary school?! Did you also visit Nevis? As for the snokeling, I think you would probably really only see most sea slugs at night time in the tropics, because even underwater the sun is just too intense for them in the daytime. As for the Bouchet & Rocroi page, I could be wrong but I think it is just a bit expanded in terms of explaining the categories and so on. (Actually it is the palm trees that are a subclade of the gastropods, not vice versa, ha ha.) Yes, fix up your sea slug articles one by one, and ask me what the various terms mean as you encounter ones I didn't mention. Or ask me to do one or two for you if a couple of them are too difficult for you. The CopyVio crisis is on-going for the fish people and also basically still for any other article that GB started. Also, not all the gastropod stuff has been cleaned up yet: [3]. Plus I am trying to see if on Wp we can get copyvio mentioned clearly and defined a more clearly as early on as possible for new editors. Ah Spike Milligan, he was the best. As for cartoonists, my S.O. is Ed Subitzky. So what is the answer to the "How do you make the animals fall out?" riddle? Invertzoo (talk) 00:42, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
You don't necessarily have to start in on the fish articles because actually there are more gastropod articles that need checking for copyvio: a partial list is at [4]. These articles are not tagged for copyvio, but in almost all cases all of the description sections are copied verbatim from Powell. AND, in the case of the articles about genus, it is necessary to check the corresponding gastropod family article too, as in many cases that is also started by GB and is a CopyVio.
No you are certainly not an idiot not to go to Nevis, I am sure you had a great time on St. Kitts. Where did you do most of your snorkeling?
I like the riddle answer! Invertzoo (talk) 12:44, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
Have you thought about looking over the article on St. Kitts to check for mistakes or omissions? You might find things you could easily fix that would improve the article. I did when I looked at the Nevis article a year or more ago. I myself don't scuba dive, but I wrote most of these 100 pages with my friend who lives on Nevis: [5]. If you look through the "Things to do" section you will find some dive sites. I snorkel (not at cliffs!) but mostly I look for and find empty shells in the beach drift. I have gone through a few more gastropod articles today; I have a feeling this whole process will not be completed for quite some time yet. Invertzoo (talk) 00:09, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, if an article only has the generic first sentence, and no info about other stuff, then it is almost certainly OK as it stands, unless GB crammed a whole lot of phrases into one sentence, as is sometimes the case. Best, Invertzoo (talk) 12:36, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
I've added the image you suggested on the talk page to the main article. Thanks! Drmies (talk) 21:02, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
I am back from 3 weeks away and just wanted to see how you are doing. Invertzoo (talk) 16:28, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Glad to hear that you are OK and thanks for your good wishes. Yes I did have a very, very good time in Nevis. I spent a certain amount of my time underwater, or at any rate in the water, but most of my free time was spent on my hands and knees crawling along with my nose only inches from the sand, examining the beachdrift, searching for the shells of species of marine mollusks which I have not seen before. Real life has a way of stealing time from WIkipedia pursuits! (or is it vice versa?) So are you in China? Or is China what you work on in real life? Basically I just wanted to check to see if you are OK and that we had not scared you away from Wikipedia with our sluggy craziness. Slimy slug hugs, Invertzoo (talk) 17:45, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi Anna, Thanks for your reply. I've done many crazy things in my life... but the guys in the white suits never seem to really catch up with me. I am sorry about the composite picture thing. To be honest I suspect Asperger's syndrome was in play there. Wow, I did not know about Hainan until I just now looked it up. What a pity that the intertidal and shallow subtidal has been destroyed, otherwise it would have a very rich fauna I am sure. Best, Invertzoo (talk) 18:05, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Nice to "see" you again. Thanks for the note and for doing your best to clean up some of the existing nudibranch articles. I did not look at the new composites yet, but I will later today. If you feel like creating some more new articles from the remaining nudibranch pictures that would be great. But really, whatever floats your boat: WP time has to seem like fun, otherwise it becomes just one more chore. I have recently been updating some of the taxonomy in the taxoboxes, but probably I will get tired of that at some point. All good wishes, Invertzoo (talk) 13:33, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Hi Anna, Slimey, sluggy hello to you. I looked at your new composites and I spotted one thing I thought I would ask you about. I just wanted to say something about the composite for the Heterobranchia.
Heterobranchia is a clade that consists of three major subdivisions: the Lower Heterobranchia, the Opisthobranchia and the Pulmonata.
In the current composite you show:
However there is no image of a species from the Opisthobranchia shown in the composite. Since the opisthobranchs are such as major group, they should really be represented in the composite. For example, whichever is your favorite nudibranch image, well, you could put that in there as an example of an opisthobranch.
Also, this is a small additional point, but as for the pulmonates, since after you have substituted an opisthobranch image there will still be two pulmonate images, well, it might be nice for one of them to be a land slug in order to show more diversity. If you can do that.
Hope this is OK and not too frustrating!
Sluggy best wishes, Invertzoo (talk) 20:20, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Ha ha! Well, you are the artist that pieces the images together, so you might have a better idea than me what would look pretty, but the image File:Arion lusitanicus 3.jpg is fairly nice although it maybe needs a bit of cropping. This one is also very nice indeed: but needs a bit of cropping too. This action shot is quite nice but needs to be cropped: . What do you think? Best from Sluggerina xxx Invertzoo (talk) 22:11, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Oh, I just noticed, the slug image you used in the composite for Sigmurethra is very nice, the blue slug, the Bielzia coerulans. Invertzoo (talk) 23:06, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the much improved image! And ha ha again! Well you may think slugs are slow, but honestly, they are faster than you might imagine they are. Back when I was studying the non-marine molluscs of Britain sometimes I would bring one home and put it in a dish, and then look down and read one paragraph in the book on slugs (and I am quite a fast reader) and then look up again. And... the slug had disappeared! It was often quite a few feet away off the table and hard to find! Invertzoo (talk) 20:39, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes, fortunately the land slugs of Britain are roamers, but are not partial to human flesh like the big cats. I did have a pet snail for a while, a large escargot, and when I gave it apple or lettuce you could hear it chomping from the next room (at that time I lived in a very quiet village.) More recently we knew a guy who worked with tigers on tour and when he took them to summer in a beautiful huge field-like enclosure they would just amble over to the shade of the nearest tree and go to sleep. Rather like slugs. Best, Invertzoo (talk) 13:03, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
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