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Greetings, I've done some basic cleanup on Poikayil Appachan, but some more fine tuning is needed. A few points:
Thanks
In the title, you negelected to capitalise "Appachan", so I did a page-move to move it to the right capitalisation. Wikipedia is case-sensitive, so make sure to capitalise proper nouns.
Almithra (talk)point taken, will take care going forward. But the mistake has resulted in getting the wrong url - it shows appachan and a "not required" redirection to wards Appachan happens. How can I get this fixed ?
??? the link Poikayil appachan automatically redirects to Poikayil Appachan. I'm not sure I see what the problem might be. NOTE: if you want to reply to my reply, add another ":" to the number of "::" I have in front of my line, and it will indent your reply one click further to the right from mine. This makes the page easier to read since we can see an indentation for each new reply.
On browsing I realized there was no wiki links to Sadhujana Paripalana Sangham as well, which I started off then, based on the knowledge I had. When you find time, please review the same. - TIA.
The term you use, "Poikayil Appachan", is that the name he is most commonly known by? I'm getting a lot more hits on GoogleBooks for "Poykayil Yohannan" or "Poikayil Yohannan". Per WP:COMMON NAME there's a process to figure out what version of a person's name should be the Wikipedia title. Please read this policy document to help decide what title would be best.
Almithra (talk)Give me another day. Will get this through.
tied with work, couldnt read all of the rules. I might spend another week on this topic.
I heard about him through his poems and he was referred as Poikayil Appachan. Might be in social/spiritual circles - he is known as Poikayil Yohannan. I am with you, please go ahead, change the subject title.
Your current sources do not meet WP:Reliable sources, being blogs and religious sites which cannot be relied upon to provide a neutral point of view on the subject. Fortunately, there are several scholarly, neutral books on GoogleBooks which have information about this figure (search under the various spellings/versions of his name) which you can cite to prove the accuracy of the article. I suggest you read WP:Footnotes to learn how best to apply these. Note also that any URL from GoogleBooks can be automatically formatted into a clean Wikipedia footnote using the website http://reftag.appspot.com . It's a great online tool for formatting any good citations you find on GoogleBooks.
I notice you've added a few more sources, but again none of these appear to meet WP:Reliable sources. I would definitely give that policy a read-through before adding more sources. Far easier to add content you can reliably defend, vice material easily challenged for lack of neutral sourcing.
I added few references, but I havent got a chance to read the entire book. Books are available in google books, but they are copyright protected and nowhere available in any close libraries. In amozon its available, but looks like shipment available only to USA: and slightly expensive too. I have to hunt local libraries, but will do for sure, might be next week.
The time period in which this person lived is not at all clear in the article, due to a general lack of dates, and the sole use of the "ME" calendar. Can you please clarify in the article what the "ME" calendar is (wikilink the term "ME" to the article about that calendar?), and also provide the equivalent date in the AD/CE calendar?
Almithra (talk)Partially done. but have to get exact date. Will correct this soon.
Great, that helps a lot. Just need to add a link to the first time the term "ME" appears to link to the article on said calendar. Many readers, myself included, have no idea what "ME" means and would like to be able to click to the article explaining that year system.
The categories you applied to the article were way too broad. Almost no articles at all should fall directly under Category:India, and other such top-level cats like Category:Christianity. Though the subject was born in India, rather than Category:India, you would apply Category:People from Kerala, for example. Note also that, once you figure out what his birth/death dates are in the CE calendar, make sure to add Category:1823 births and Category:1892 deaths (or whatever dates are applicable) as this is standard for biographies.
Good deal. Note also that Category:Dalit theology is "redlinked". That is, there is no such category. I suggest you check out Category:Dalit and see what sub-cats already exist covering such topics.
Corrected Category:Dalit theology to Category:Liberation theology based on what I could understand. See if that is making sense ?
Once you have this article cleaned up and have a good feel for the process, if you can write an article about the secular/religious organisation founded by Poikayil, that would be an outstanding contribution. Again, ensure that all the information you wish to include is supported by WP:Reliable sources before you begin, as info that is uncited, or cited to blogs, devotional sites, sites affiliated with the organisation, etc. are non-Neutral and thus generally not admissible except as examples of doctrine, etc.
Almithra (talk)I am concerned about this point. Have to get better references.
No problem, what are your concerns? Have you tried searches at GoogleBooks (under whatever various spellings of this religious group) to see what neutral, scholarly sources you can footnote for such an article? Remember, reliable sources come first, as it does no good to publish an article before it can be properly, neutrally substantiated.
Thanks for the tip of reply, i am enjoying wikipedia-ing :) I added few references, but I havent got a chance to read the entire book. Books are available in google books, but they are copyright protected and nowhere available in any close libraries. In amozon its available, but looks like shipment available only to USA: and slightly expensive too. I have to hunt local libraries, but will do for sure, might be next week.
Greetings, looking better and better. Your uses of the Thomas book and the Gladstone book, both scholarly texts with full-formatted footnotes, are exactly the kind of upgrades you want to be making, so that's heading a positive direction. A couple of minor points, and if you like I can continue to advise as you move forward:
Yes. Absolutely fine with it.
You use the term "SJPS": best practice is to give the full name of an organisation (and wikilinked to its Wiki article if available) for the first time an organisation is mentioned, and then type the acronym immediately following it in parentheses, but it's okay to use just an acronym thereafter. Example: "The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has a budget of $XYZ. The EPA was founded by President Nixon." So, exactly what is the SJPS?
Done
Given that there is no article for the organisation Poikayil founded (yet), you need to add a little bit of clarity as to what this non-religious organisation is. Is it a secular social-reform movement, a utopian society? You just want to find some neutral way to describe it, ideally cited to a scholarly, neutral publication.
Yes, Sure. Doing the write up now, so, the page for PRDS in few days, and will put in the visions of Poikayil Appachan in his page.
The intro of the article, known as the "lead" or "lede" is meant to summarise the absolute most important facts of the person. It is not meant in any way to be chronological, so unless his parents are vitally important they can be covered in the next section with the background of his early life. I suggest reading WP:LEDE to get some ideas on how to have a concise and informative lede.
Very informative. I am surprised, I am learning a lot.
A photograph would be key to improving the article. Are there extant photos of this figure? If a public domain photo is available, it is best to upload it to WikiCommons so that it can be used across all Wiki projects and languages (vice just English Wikipedia). The rules for Indian copyright are linked here but it appears that any photo published prior to 1941 in India is in the Public Domain. Uploading photos can be a bit tricky to learn, so if you have trouble with it, don't be frustrated, but let me or another assisting editor know you'd like some photo help.
I do have a pic, but not a photograph. Pics are here.
http://www.tasveerghar.net/cmsdesk/essay/70/index_6.html
But, it was published in 2004, hence copyright laws are valid for it. I traced down the owner of it, I guess from a community site. Have asked his permission/comments/asked him to publish in WikiCommons.
I have added a few more scholarly sources for some basic facts; note also another editor (Sitush), who is a strong proponent of having a high standard for quality on India articles, removed a couple blog links for not meeting WP:Reliable sources. This is not to say the blogs are wrong, simply that they are not recognised, peer-reviewed scholarly works. I also proposed a title-change on the Talk page of the article, so your input there would be great. I made a series of minor tweaks; note on the History tab you can use the little circles next to the versions to compare any two periods of the page, so if you want to see all that I changed together, you can pick on the left the last circle before my recent edits, and on the right the circle by my last edit.
I'm reading the Encyclopedia - will update/comment what I will figure out.
At the same time, I would like to know how I can add Poikayil Appachan to the page Paraiyar. Sitush says it dont have any reference. Was he mentioning about the Wiki Page or he wanted me to add the details in the page for Paraiyar too ?
I noticed, you mentioned he might be Tamil Paraiyar - I am not sure. How is Kerala Paraiyar and Tamil Paraiyar different ? Or was there a difference apart from the language spoken ?
One minor word of caution (and a suggestion to read WP:Conflict of interest). If you have some personal involvement with this figure or his organisation, bear in mind the vital importance of maintaining neutrality. It is imperative that the article not judge how right/wrong someone is, but only their importance in the historical record. This has already been a minor issue with your terming the PRDS "non-religious", but other sources state that the group does believe in some Creator, and a spiritual mandate to liberate the Dalit, so I submit "non-religious" is a bit of a stretch. So do read WP:COI to make sure you do not merge personal belief and detached perspective, and this will help us all maintain the neutrality and credibility of the article. Note also I started a basic stub of Prathyaksha Raksha Daiva Sabha. Be very careful on sourcing here: it is okay to say "the group describes itself as "[quote here]" ". But it is not permissible to take the group's statements and present them as external, neutral fact. Again, feel free at any time to run any questions by me as a neutral party, and please do not take it personally if people scale back or tweak some statements that they feel are too subjective. If there are cited items added which you feel are simply factually incorrect (not a difference of opinion/perspective) please do point those out on Talk so that you might not be mistakenly seen as removing cited material for subjective reasons. Your enthusiasm for the subject is great, but just do bear in mind the need for neutrality. MatthewVanitas (talk) 21:57, 6 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry for terming PRDS non religious: it was my ignorance. will take care going forward.
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I didn't even see the article before someone tagged it for deletion, but in general do please be advised they're real sticklers for the criteria of WP:Notability. The fear is that if they allow any laxity on it then WP will be full of articles on every "rock band" practicing in their parents' basement, biographies of everyone's 19yr old college chum, every "internet company" that is two guys and a website, etc. Not at all saying that Vennimala is such a thing, just that since you apparently didn't put in clear proof of WP:Notability it got tagged.
Do note that you can request a draft be moved to your Userspace so that you can improve it; try contacting the deleting admin and ask if he can "userify" the page for you. Then in your Userspace (where not-yet-ready articles are allowed to rest) you can take the time to find proper references to meet WP:N and then move it to articlespace when it's ready.
Especially for a beginner, I'd suggest making your articles in Userspace vice articlespace at first, to avoid just such a problme. And then when you feel it's ready for the public, use the "Move" button. To make a Userspace article, just go to your Userpage (not User Talk, but the one linked to just your name) and then in your URL bar just add a / and then the title: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MatthewVanitas/Fav-o Chocolate Bar. That will start a new "article" but within your protected space. MatthewVanitas (talk) 13:12, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies, I didnt do it intentionally. Please go ahead with speedy deletion of Vennimala, I still dont have enough information regarding Vennimala topics.
Don't forget to sign your posts
No worries, nothing to apologise for. Just bear in mind that any article on people, organisations, businesses, musical groups, books, etc. etc. absolutely must have proper sourcing (more than just one source, and from a good WP:Reliable source) prior to being moved to articlespace, or they can be Speedily Deleted on sight. All the more reason to nurture an article on your Userspace at least until it has a couple of footnotes. MatthewVanitas (talk) 17:29, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Greetings, I noticed we have a WP:redlink in the Poikayil article for the Dalit community Kuravar. Glancing at GoogleBooks, I'm seeing very few hits for this term. Is there another name/spelling this community is known by in English (like how the Coorgs are now commonly called Kodava, and the British spelling Colleries replaced by Kallar (caste). I'll happily whip up a stub article on that Dalit community if you can just identify for me a spelling which, when typed into GoogleBooks, gets a decent number of hits. It'll just make the Poikayil article stronger if we can work out its redlinks so that each topic linked can be further explored by the reader. Personally, I find fleshing out redlinks one of the more interesting ways to figure out what articles Wikipedia is missing. MatthewVanitas (talk) 15:44, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, found it already: they're also known as Kurava, and maybe a few other names. MatthewVanitas (talk) 16:10, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've added few more details I could pull from Encyclopedia of Dalit Leaders. Please go through and see if fair enough.
I am looking for leads to SadhuJana Paripalana Sangham and what happened to the movement afterwards. I heard that most of Poikayil Appachan's demands were not agreed by SJPS too, but happened after struggles and strikes post 1957. I am trying to look why Dalit Christians were denied equal provision as their non Christian counterparts. I found Dalit Christian wiki quite inapt in providing the details. Please guide me how can I get more details. --Almithra (talk) 17:40, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I am looking for leads to SadhuJana Paripalana Sangham and what happened to the movement afterwards. I heard that most of Poikayil Appachan's demands were not agreed by SJPS too, but happened after struggles and strikes post 1957. I am trying to look why Dalit Christians were denied equal provision as their non Christian counterparts. I found Dalit Christian wiki quite inapt in providing the details. Please guide me how can I get more details. --Almithra (talk) 17:42, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Almithra, the ((helpme)) tag is more for technical issues, like your templates aren't displaying right, or photo isn't uploading, or others are vandalising your article. If what you're wanting is research help, the best place to go would be the Talk page of WikiProject India. To give it some context, I would add just a few lines before the above, introducing yourself and explaining that you're covering the issue of early 20th century Dalit advocacy groups in Kerala. That way people who don't known Poikayil or SJPS will have some general idea of what part of history you're referring to. You're not necessarily guaranteed to get help from WPINDIA, but it's probably the best place to ask. MatthewVanitas (talk) 17:50, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Kerala Stipendary Students Association (KSSA)
National Dalit Christian Federation (NDCF)
All India Christian Federation (AICF)
Prathyaksha Raksha Daiva Sabha (PRDS)
Hello, Almithra. You have new messages at Almithra's talk page. Message added 14:54, 18 April 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the ((Talkback)) or ((Tb)) template.
Greetings, I made a few changes, most of which are explained in the Edit Summaries on the History tab of your draft.
Overall, nice work and a great start, and covering a topic that really deserves coverage. We are a bit weak on Dalit issues on WP, so your contributions are very appreciated. A few observations to keep in mind moving forward:
Though these are emotional issue, for the sake of WP:NPOV we must aim for the most factual and dispassionate description. The word "carnage" is more dramatic and less clearly-defined than "massacre", and the latter term is a pretty standard title term on WP, so I moved the title to "1996 Bathani Tola massacre".
Agreed
Per WP:NPOV and the like, eschew words like "slaughter", "merciless", "senseless", etc. Most reasonable readers are certainly going to understand that killing women and children is bad, so rather than tell them "it was bad", we seek to give them the bare facts and let them draw their own conclusion.
Agreed
Your article had no WP:LEDE, an intro up-top that summarises the key points. When writing a lede, make sure you hit the "5 W's" (who, what, where, when, why) in a very concise manner. Everything in the lede should be supported by the main body, and therefore a lede shouldn't need footnotes because all the details are footnoted below.
Tried to put up this - see if it fits in.
Adding the right categories takes a little familiarity with the Category system; WP:CAT can give you some ideas, but for now I added some suggested categories. Just remove the ":" from the beginning once you publish.
Agreed. Will take off the : once I publish it.
Right now all your references are from The Hindu, but ideally you want wider coverage. I suggest you check out GoogleBooks and add at least a few refs from scholarly sources, ideally from books that specialise in related topics (caste violence, etc) rather than general "history of India" or "current events in human rights" generalist books.
I added few books reference too.
Right now, I'd say if you can fix your "link rot", and add at least a couple footnotes from other books, and answer the few questions I've put in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS in "hidden text" visible only in editing mode, you should be good to move it to articlespace. Nice work, each article is getting better as you learn the process! MatthewVanitas (talk) 23:00, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks - Please take a look.I've taken off link rot and single reference as I provided few more reference. I will search and add more reference from other dailies of the time.
I am trying to expand the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste-related_violence_in_India by putting more details. I added violence in Bihar and TN, which I came across past few days. I am reading a book by V. Swaminathan, once getting more details, I will add up. Please share your thoughts too. Almithra (talk) 07:03, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Looking good; a great basic article, and has room for further growth. Note I did remove a few pieces about specific individuals killed, not because those people don't merit, but because those particular details are not intrinsic to understanding the event. They are indeed backed up by the sources, but it's a bit more of a dramatic, emotion-laden newspaper styling and less encyclopedic. However, I may try to put some of it back in in a much shorter fashion to explain that the attackers used swords (any clearer details on weapons involved overall?), and might briefly mention the two cited terrible sword injuries to children.
Not a huge deal, but as a general rule on Wikipedia, don't use copy-paste as a substitute for Move. See Wikipedia:Moving a page . When you copy-pasted the article text into the articlespace, you lost all of the Page History of the draft. Not a huge deal in practise, but as a general principle we want people to be able to see how the article developed over time. There is a fix that I can ask a mod to do, "history merge" or something like that, so I'll go handle it. In the future, click the little down-arrow next to the "watchlist star" up by the tabs at the top of your screen. This will give you several options, including "move page". Then just chop off your username from the title, select "main space" and hit "Move". Just bear that in mind next time you move a draft; and good call on getting it cleaned up in userspace before publishing.
I found it now, thanks. While I was trying to [merge history] I realized I dont know how to delete an article. Hence I left it as it is for time being, but will take care going forward.
Thanks again for your great work, and it's good to see your articles getting better each time. At some point, I would recommend you come to WP:INDIA's talk page and introduce yourself, maybe outline what your overall interests/goals are. That can help you meet others with common interests, or people who can collaborate with you. MatthewVanitas (talk) 18:48, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Sure. Currently I am focusing on Cultural Issues and calamities. I felt wiki could become a better historical reference and in few years school going kids too will be referring wiki. Hence, wiki will be more believed than a history text book the govt prescribes. Almithra (talk) 20:13, 20 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Getting better and better overall. A few suggestions:
You have some formatting and typesetting issues you'll want to standardise: if you don't find it too boring, Wikipedia:Manual of Style has some great info on how to get articles into a standard appearance. You've had some issues with setting up sub-sections, punctuation (use of spaces and commas, etc), and suchlike. WP has a pretty standard format, so once you get used to that editing anywhere on Wiki gets easier.
You should read WP:Wikilinks, as you tend to under-wikify your articles. Definitely don't over wikify either (don't link common words like "police", "village", "India") but do link (only the first time they appear in the article) terms which a non-familiar reader might not know, like lahti charge, lakh, B.R. Ambedkar, United Nations Special Rapporteur, Other Backward Class, etc.
Great job fixing the link-rot; it goes a long way towards looking cleaner, and also allows people to repair the article if the links are damaged over time.
Your neutral tone is certainly getting better; please continue to practise taking the most objective and balanced view. Reading WP:NPOV is always a good way to get some insight as well.
Just a few initial comments; please also check out the "History" tab of the articles I tweak for you to see my explanation in the Edit Summaries, and in many cases I've left "hidden text" comments in the article that can only be seen when editing. Hope this help. MatthewVanitas (talk) 16:00, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! The submission has not been accepted because it included copyrighted information, which is not permitted on Wikipedia. You are welcome to write an article on the subject, but please do not use copyrighted work.
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Please help by mentioning which is violating the copyright. I put youtube videos, is that the one ? Or FB page ?
If you could be specific I would take off those refs right away.
Almithra (talk) 17:45, 17 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Almithra, I ran a copyright violation tool that checks the page, and almost all of it was copied from the various news sources listed in the references. Since the majority of the article was in violation, the policy is to clear the entire article and start from scratch. Primefac (talk) 17:54, 17 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I really dont trust that application, share me that application, let me see that, its more than 2 weeks of effort that was blanked out. Have you read the article and the history ? How lame reason was that ? I cannot write stories and poems, but articles with references rt ?
Cant stop laughing, pls share the application/tool which you used, it has to be improved. Who supports the tool ?
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Hi. We're into the last five days of the Women in Red World Contest. There's a new bonus prize of $200 worth of books of your choice to win for creating the most new women biographies between 0:00 on the 26th and 23:59 on 30th November. If you've been contributing to the contest, thank you for your support, we've produced over 2000 articles. If you haven't contributed yet, we would appreciate you taking the time to add entries to our articles achievements list by the end of the month. Thank you, and if participating, good luck with the finale!
If you created the article, please don't be offended. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see Referencing for beginners, or ask at the help desk. Once you have provided at least one reliable source, you may remove the ((prod blp/dated)) tag. Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced. If you cannot provide such a source within seven days, the article may be deleted, but you can request that it be undeleted when you are ready to add one. Cahk (talk) 12:18, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Ajeesh Dasan is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ajeesh Dasan until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Archer1234 (talk) 06:46, 18 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
If you wish to participate in the 2019 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add ((NoACEMM)) to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:13, 19 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]